tantra .. known to world as black magic (east) and 'sex' (west)

[Guest guest]

Jay Gurudev,

 

I recently joined a orkut community 'Tantra', thinking there were

discussion going on topic relevant to tantra. To my astonisment,

found out 'tantra' here in west have become synonomous to "Tantrik

sex". I thought what an irony. In my own backyard (Indian

subcontinent) it has become synonomous to fear for the common folk

due to selfish interest of some.

 

I understand why this happened in east (still we can discuss it);

please let me know how did tantra degenerated into tantrik sex to

west.

 

Regards

 

Mithilesh

[Guest guest]

Hi Mithilesh!

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

I understand your concerns, but my response would be that you're

painting with rather too broad of a brush.

 

You are correct that the term Tantra has been often misused in the

West. The term Tantra, in its authentic sense, is not widely

understood with any depth, subtlety or refinement. It is also used

very loosely as a commercial "come-hither" to sell books, New Age

recordings, sex manuals, etc.

 

But to say Tantra "in the West has become synonomous to Tantrik sex"

is an exaggeration. Nor do I think it is "synonomous to fear" in

India. (See http://www.vi1.org to explore one great soul's efforts to

aid "the common folk" precisely through the agency of Tantra.)

 

I am certainly often to discussion if you'd like to get more specific.

And I'm sure many members more knowledgeable than myself will be able

to address your concerns better than I am able.

 

Still, I would like to quote at some length this excerpt, posted a few

weeks back by our valued member jaimaa1008, which might put a slightly

different spin on your thinking about Tantra:

 

"There are too many things going on at the same time. There is

the wonderful body of tantric texts; there is the not-so-open pool of

tantric masters and practioners; and there is California neo-tantra.

 

"Despite the fact that lot of Indians practice some form of

Tantra, the majority view is an apologetic one where all the 'nasty'

parts are pushed under the mat. Most of the people -- especially those

of the upper castes --- see it a a means to realize the wonderful

adwaithic goal of the Shankara tradition; and anything which conflicts

with that is useless, immoral and evil or is for persons of lesser

mental intellectual and moral calibre.

 

"And then there is the secrecy and the caste politics. It's kind of

sad that so many of the texts, practices and traditions are lost

because of this. (This is in complete contrast to the Buddhist

tantras. Of course the tibetans don't start by drawing attention to

their tantric practices involving the same panchamakaras, they just

talk about world peace.) It's also unfortunate that practicing

tantrics, instead of being open to all the paths, are denying a lot as

being against the vedic, hence 'bad'.

 

"And there is the western concern with tantric sex which is just a

small part.

 

"Whatever form it takes this is good for tantra and its survival. The

scholars are producing great books, people are having better sex and

the sadhakas are having better access to texts and teachers.

Tantra has arrived lets make the best use of it,and choose any

path without being apologetic about it."

 

Wow. I can't put it any better than that.

 

DB

[Guest guest]

Hello DB,

Jay Gurudev;

 

Thank you for your response. It was really thoughtful.

> But to say Tantra "in the West has become synonomous to Tantrik sex"

> is an exaggeration. Nor do I think it is "synonomous to fear" in

> India. (See http://www.vi1.org to explore one great soul's efforts

to

> aid "the common folk" precisely through the agency of Tantra.)

 

I am not sure about the comment I made about west prespective. May

be I should not have made that comment. I am eager to know from the

knowledgble members of the group about this prespective.

 

About the 'fear' atleast in Indian subcontinent, I beg to differ. The

meaning of 'tantra', as I have understood is system (please correct

me if i am wrong). It find many usage, as

in 'prajatantra', 'rajtantra', mantra-tantra (and many more words)

meaning democracy, monarchy, procedure to perform pujas by reciting

mantra respectively. When we just say 'tantra', it is usually

interpreted as 'mantra-tantra-yantra'. And there is nothing to fear

with this science. The fear I think come from ignorance. Couple of

years back, when I use to bow before goddes kali (my family diety),

it was more because of fear than reverance. Reason I guess was my

ignorance; am still working on it. May be we will have to do some

survery to prove our respective points.

 

 

I agree with you that there are lot of efforts both individual and as

group to dispel the myth and fear. One of the prominent being my

revered gurudev.

 

 

> I am certainly often to discussion if you'd like to get more

specific.

> And I'm sure many members more knowledgeable than myself will be

able

> to address your concerns better than I am able.

 

 

Thank You so much. So nice of you. Now let me rephrase my query.

 

Is there any sadhana in mantra-tantra where sexuality is involved and

is this the reason why we hear about 'tantric sex'. i have heard

of 'kamasutra' but never heard 'kamatantra'.

 

Thank You.

 

Regards

 

Mithilesh

[Guest guest]

Hi Mithilesh:

 

Thanks for your response.

 

*** About the 'fear', at least in Indian subcontinent, I beg to

differ. The meaning of 'tantra', as I have understood is system

(please correct me if i am wrong). It find many usage ... When we

just say 'tantra', it is usually interpreted as

'mantra-tantra-yantra'. And there is nothing to fear with this

science. The fear I think come from ignorance. ***

 

That is my point, precisely.

 

*** I agree with you that there are lot of efforts both individual and

as group to dispel the myth and fear. One of the prominent being my

revered gurudev. ***

 

It is a primary purpose here as well, to the extent that Devi might

wish our efforts to have some effect.

 

*** Is there any sadhana in mantra-tantra where sexuality is involved? ***

 

Yes.

 

*** is this the reason why we hear about 'tantric sex'? ***

 

Don't know. Maybe.

 

*** i have heard 'kamasutra' but never heard 'kamatantra'. ***

 

*lol* Nor have I ...

 

Thanks again ...

 

DB