Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Not knowing a great deal about Dianic beliefs, what exactly is the conflict with heterosexuality from your perspective? I cannot see sense in having male energy involved in any way with a Goddess AKA female belief system... Rather like adding asafoetida to ones tea, ruins the brew and makes one ill. An all female coven bringing male energy in, either by inviting them into the actual coven or bringing it in by means of mating with one is defeating the whole reason for an all female anything... To escape male influences and reclaim the power of women. ----------- Eternal Writer/Poet/Child of the Universe http://users4.ev1.net/~eternalwytch1/ ICQ: 55902650 "The magic is in the blood, it flows from the heart. Every time you use it, part of yourself goes with it. Only when you are prepared to give of yourself and receive nothing back will the magic work for you.--Theobald Beckman, Raistlin Chronicles Vol. 1 "The Soulforge" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 I guess that's fair enough, though I assume your comment regarding "mating with one" is a bit euphemistic since I assume lesbian Dianics aren't against conception per se. Obviously my own interest in goddess based religion is going to favor one in which I as a man could have some involvement, or at least be allowed to learn the underlying beliefs. Though I can understand the desire to rebuild a female-centric belief system without needing to always address issues of male influence, the conundrum is how one might do that without alienating a male population that might have good reason to be supportive. Similarly and as the interview with Z Budapest indicates, even a female heterosexual population may be alienated by a leadership that makes lesbianism or separatism a requirement. eternalwytch1 <eternalwytch1 wrote: > Not knowing a great deal about Dianic beliefs, what exactly is the conflict with heterosexuality from your perspective? I cannot see sense in having male energy involved in any way with a Goddess AKA female belief system... Rather like adding asafoetida to ones tea, ruins the brew and makes one ill. An all female coven bringing male energy in, either by inviting them into the actual coven or bringing it in by means of mating with one is defeating the whole reason for an all female anything... To escape male influences and reclaim the power of women. ----------- Eternal Writer/Poet/Child of the Universe http://users4.ev1.net/~eternalwytch1/ ICQ: 55902650 "The magic is in the blood, it flows from the heart. Every time you use it, part of yourself goes with it. Only when you are prepared to give of yourself and receive nothing back will the magic work for you.--Theobald Beckman, Raistlin Chronicles Vol. 1 "The Soulforge" / vote. - Register online to vote today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Do you believe in reincarnation? Is there not a possibility that you were once male? Or heterosexual? Can you not see life from other people's perspectives? Allison I have been reincarnated more than I care to count. Never male that I am aware of and have had many lives with men as mates. But that was then, this is now. ----------- Eternal Writer/Poet/Child of the Universe http://users4.ev1.net/~eternalwytch1/ ICQ: 55902650 "The magic is in the blood, it flows from the heart. Every time you use it, part of yourself goes with it. Only when you are prepared to give of yourself and receive nothing back will the magic work for you.--Theobald Beckman, Raistlin Chronicles Vol. 1 "The Soulforge" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 This is interesting discussion. >From the point of witchcraft, what is the difference between man and woman. Shakti is i believe neuter. It is the energy , or the reflective awareness of shiva, the unchanging principle behind all change. Again enlighten me from pagan/wiccan perpective, what is this shakti? , "eternalwytch1" <eternalwytch1@e...> wrote: > Do you believe in > reincarnation? Is there not a possibility that you were once male? Or > heterosexual? Can you not see life from other people's perspectives? > > Allison > > I have been reincarnated more than I care to count. Never male that I am > aware of and have had many lives with men as mates. But that was then, > this is now. > ----------- > Eternal > Writer/Poet/Child of the Universe > http://users4.ev1.net/~eternalwytch1/ > ICQ: 55902650 > "The magic is in the blood, it flows from the heart. Every time you use > it, part of yourself goes with it. Only when you are prepared to give of > yourself and receive nothing back will the magic work for you.--Theobald > Beckman, Raistlin Chronicles Vol. 1 "The Soulforge" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Again what is this power of woman. To be feminine is to be more sensual, more caught in the sensory desires and the endless loop which it generates. It has nothing to do with the actual sex. The more one can be a master of the sensory wheel, the more shakti he/she has. , "eternalwytch1" <eternalwytch1@e...> wrote: > Not knowing a great deal about Dianic beliefs, what exactly is the > conflict with heterosexuality from your perspective? > > I cannot see sense in having male energy involved in any way with a > Goddess AKA female belief system... Rather like adding asafoetida to > ones tea, ruins the brew and makes one ill. An all female coven bringing > male energy in, either by inviting them into the actual coven or > bringing it in by means of mating with one is defeating the whole reason > for an all female anything... To escape male influences and reclaim the > power of women. > ----------- > Eternal > Writer/Poet/Child of the Universe > http://users4.ev1.net/~eternalwytch1/ > ICQ: 55902650 > "The magic is in the blood, it flows from the heart. Every time you use > it, part of yourself goes with it. Only when you are prepared to give of > yourself and receive nothing back will the magic work for you.--Theobald > Beckman, Raistlin Chronicles Vol. 1 "The Soulforge" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 , "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > ... To be feminine is to be more > sensual, more caught in the sensory desires and the endless loop which > it generates. I would like to say politely, with offense to no being nor any tradition, that I think this is simply wrong. In my personal experience, men are more controlled, influenced, by sensory desires, while also less aware and uncomfortable with them. But I think the generalizations are maybe are not important ultimately, and a source of endless conflict and misunderstanding. >It has nothing to do with the actual sex. > > The more one can be a master of the sensory wheel, the more shakti > he/she has. > I am still learning the vocabulary taken for granted here. By "shakti" you mean Pure energy; absolute dynamism; the creative power of the Self which animates the entire universe, seen and unseen. www.shyamspace.com/shyam002/vision/glossary.htm Lord Shiva 's consort; female energy www.well.com/user/jct/sageglo.htm the energy of the Divine that awakens the spiritual potentials of humanity. It is also called the Grace-Bestowing Power of the Divine, descent of the Holy Spirit, Light Immersion, Baraka, or Shaktipat. www.mudrashram.com/glossarypage.html spiritual power; the divine cosmic energy which projects, maintains, and dissolves the universe. www.symca.org/glossary.htm ? I might say, for sentient self-aware beings, more awareness means more connection with everything already connected to everything, and greater participation in Creation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 " I cannot see sense in having male energy involved in any way with a Goddess AKA female belief system... Rather like adding asafoetida to ones tea, ruins the brew and makes one ill. An all female coven bringing male energy in, either by inviting them into the actual coven or bringing it in by means of mating with one is defeating the whole reason for an all female anything... To escape male influences and reclaim the power of women." >From this and other of your posts it is clear that you believe that you have suffered at the hands of some man/men. But suffering is in the eye of the beholder. Every person and event in your life is a karmic presence. To not learn about it and to react adamantly against such a karmic presence is only to increase your store of karma. The universe acts to get your attention. If you do not get its message, the message keeps getting repeated with increasing force until you do. Or, you could make subtle enquiries and observations about the course of your life, find patterns, find answers, make changes in your self and then life miraculously becomes easier. Why react so aggressively against the events of your life? To do so only obscures your own being, your own divine self. With such reactions you only give up your sense of self and allow that sense of self to be defined by outside forces. Better to accept what life offers, go within and find your true identity (which will be neither male or female). Once you have an inner sense of your true nature, nothing can take that away or distort it or hid it. You will shine through all adversity, real or perceived. To rant against males only results in you denying that male prana in you and thus preventing it from uniting with the female prana in you to form the spiritual force behind all spiritual revelations. You are cutting yourself off from knowledge of your divine nature with this unproductive attitude. Better to be fearless, serene and accepting and come to know yourself as divinity personified. "The pursuit of truth is like picking raspberries. You miss a lot if you approach it from only one angle." --Randal Marlin, Carleton University Om and Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Namaste Omprem, Nice to see you back after such a long silence. Thanks for this very insightful post regarding spiritual practice and outlook. I think you hit the nail on the head. ~SE101 , "omprem" <omprem> wrote: > " I cannot see sense in having male energy involved in any way > with a Goddess AKA female belief system... Rather like adding > asafoetida to ones tea, ruins the brew and makes one ill. An all > female coven bringing male energy in, either by inviting them > into the actual coven or bringing it in by means of mating with > one is defeating the whole reason for an all female anything... To > escape male influences and reclaim the power of women." > > > From this and other of your posts it is clear that you believe that > you have suffered at the hands of some man/men. But suffering > is in the eye of the beholder. Every person and event in your life > is a karmic presence. To not learn about it and to react > adamantly against such a karmic presence is only to increase > your store of karma. > > The universe acts to get your attention. If you do not get its > message, the message keeps getting repeated with increasing > force until you do. Or, you could make subtle enquiries and > observations about the course of your life, find patterns, find > answers, make changes in your self and then life miraculously > becomes easier. > > Why react so aggressively against the events of your life? To do > so only obscures your own being, your own divine self. With such > reactions you only give up your sense of self and allow that > sense of self to be defined by outside forces. Better to accept > what life offers, go within and find your true identity (which will be > neither male or female). Once you have an inner sense of your > true nature, nothing can take that away or distort it or hid it. You > will shine through all adversity, real or perceived. > > To rant against males only results in you denying that male > prana in you and thus preventing it from uniting with the female > prana in you to form the spiritual force behind all spiritual > revelations. You are cutting yourself off from knowledge of your > divine nature with this unproductive attitude. Better to be fearless, > serene and accepting and come to know yourself as divinity > personified. > > "The pursuit of truth is like picking raspberries. You miss a lot if > you approach it from only one angle." --Randal Marlin, Carleton > University > > > Om and Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Actually Omprem, Dianic Moon Goddess worshippers are some of the most austere and purely feminine devotees. Traditional Western feminine mysticism is the wiccan, midwife/gynocologist, and itself a closed cult until the modern medical doctor. Of course, the doctor following the work of the Inquisitor. Prior to that time one can only imagine the great Moon cults. I imagine that some witches rather died than sell out their covens, which probably happened to be all the women in the entire towns. At first. I think nonetheless that a man is used maybe a few ocassions a year regardless of what was here said or admitted to. - omprem Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:42 AM Re: Dianic " I cannot see sense in having male energy involved in any way with a Goddess AKA female belief system... Rather like adding asafoetida to ones tea, ruins the brew and makes one ill. An all female coven bringing male energy in, either by inviting them into the actual coven or bringing it in by means of mating with one is defeating the whole reason for an all female anything... To escape male influences and reclaim the power of women." From this and other of your posts it is clear that you believe that you have suffered at the hands of some man/men. But suffering is in the eye of the beholder. Every person and event in your life is a karmic presence. To not learn about it and to react adamantly against such a karmic presence is only to increase your store of karma. The universe acts to get your attention. If you do not get its message, the message keeps getting repeated with increasing force until you do. Or, you could make subtle enquiries and observations about the course of your life, find patterns, find answers, make changes in your self and then life miraculously becomes easier. Why react so aggressively against the events of your life? To do so only obscures your own being, your own divine self. With such reactions you only give up your sense of self and allow that sense of self to be defined by outside forces. Better to accept what life offers, go within and find your true identity (which will be neither male or female). Once you have an inner sense of your true nature, nothing can take that away or distort it or hid it. You will shine through all adversity, real or perceived. To rant against males only results in you denying that male prana in you and thus preventing it from uniting with the female prana in you to form the spiritual force behind all spiritual revelations. You are cutting yourself off from knowledge of your divine nature with this unproductive attitude. Better to be fearless, serene and accepting and come to know yourself as divinity personified. "The pursuit of truth is like picking raspberries. You miss a lot if you approach it from only one angle." --Randal Marlin, Carleton University Om and Prem / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 There are austere and radical devotees of other paths who adamantly exclude women. To my mind they are just as blind, equally victims of their ego, and just as self-defeating, as the Dianic Moon Goddess worshippers as presented here. Each o us is able to make his/her own mistakes and follow his/her own path, but we are all climbing the same mountain and eventually will arrive at the top with a common view even though the terrain through which we travelled at the bottom was quite different. I'm not quite sure what the purpose of your post is. Your political comment about 'modern [western] medical doctors' is misplaced. It should instead have railed against the imposition of empiricism and rationality and the consequent devaluing of intuitive processes. Descartes and his dumbing down of wisdom to what the imperfect senses can provide to an imperfect and conditioned mind is the greatest enemy that humans have known. It will be a toss-up whether we as a race survive his stupidity. Your 'modern [western] medical doctors' are just as much victims as any one else. That is why so many of them are now embracing and referring their patients to alternative medical practitioners. Om and Prem , "Detective_Mongo_Phd" <detective_mongo_phd@h...> wrote: > Actually Omprem, Dianic Moon Goddess worshippers are some of the most austere and purely feminine devotees. Traditional Western feminine mysticism is the wiccan, midwife/gynocologist, and itself a closed cult until the modern medical doctor. Of course, the doctor following the work of the Inquisitor. Prior to that time one can only imagine the great Moon cults. I imagine that some witches rather died than sell out their covens, which probably happened to be all the women in the entire towns. At first. I think nonetheless that a man is used maybe a few ocassions a year regardless of what was here said or admitted to. > - > omprem > > Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:42 AM > Re: Dianic > > > " I cannot see sense in having male energy involved in any way > with a Goddess AKA female belief system... Rather like adding > asafoetida to ones tea, ruins the brew and makes one ill. An all > female coven bringing male energy in, either by inviting them > into the actual coven or bringing it in by means of mating with > one is defeating the whole reason for an all female anything... To > escape male influences and reclaim the power of women." > > > From this and other of your posts it is clear that you believe that > you have suffered at the hands of some man/men. But suffering > is in the eye of the beholder. Every person and event in your life > is a karmic presence. To not learn about it and to react > adamantly against such a karmic presence is only to increase > your store of karma. > > The universe acts to get your attention. If you do not get its > message, the message keeps getting repeated with increasing > force until you do. Or, you could make subtle enquiries and > observations about the course of your life, find patterns, find > answers, make changes in your self and then life miraculously > becomes easier. > > Why react so aggressively against the events of your life? To do > so only obscures your own being, your own divine self. With such > reactions you only give up your sense of self and allow that > sense of self to be defined by outside forces. Better to accept > what life offers, go within and find your true identity (which will be > neither male or female). Once you have an inner sense of your > true nature, nothing can take that away or distort it or hid it. You > will shine through all adversity, real or perceived. > > To rant against males only results in you denying that male > prana in you and thus preventing it from uniting with the female > prana in you to form the spiritual force behind all spiritual > revelations. You are cutting yourself off from knowledge of your > divine nature with this unproductive attitude. Better to be fearless, > serene and accepting and come to know yourself as divinity > personified. > > "The pursuit of truth is like picking raspberries. You miss a lot if > you approach it from only one angle." --Randal Marlin, Carleton > University > > > Om and Prem Sponsor > > > > > > > > Links > > > / > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of Service. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 I'm fine with people being different and in fact think humanity is at it's best when diverse! BUT if someone attacks me I will defend myself! That is what happened earlier with that eternal wytch lady and I felt it was justifiable since she started on some "all men are evil" type of rant and even sent me anti-male hate mail! How you practice your spirituality is an individual matter, but aggresive racism, sexism, or any type of attacks based on bigoted concepts is representing a type of weakness and ignorance - it doesn't sound like spiritual wisdom to me, and we shouldn't feign respect for it as if it was! --- seed_crystal writes: Can we not appreciate the Goddess' blessing in calling to us and speaking to us in different ways? And have a bit more humility about what we do and do not share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 There are austere and radical devotees of other paths who adamantly insist nothing is of value unless everyone benefits from it in the same way. To my mind they are just as blind, equally victims of their ego, and just as self-defeating, as the men-telling-women-what- -to-do worshippers presented here. When I modify your words this way, and not even making it as directly targeted as your generalizations regarding my religion, does it rankle? Or do you feel blessed by my genuine concern for the ignorance and egoism which blinds you? Can we not appreciate the Goddess' blessing in calling to us and speaking to us in different ways? And have a bit more humility about what we do and do not share? , "omprem" <omprem> wrote: > There are austere and radical devotees of other paths who > adamantly exclude women. To my mind they are just as blind, > equally victims of their ego, and just as self-defeating, as the > Dianic Moon Goddess worshippers as presented here. Each o > us is able to make his/her own mistakes and follow his/her own > path, but we are all climbing the same mountain and eventually > will arrive at the top with a common view even though the terrain > through which we travelled at the bottom was quite different. > > I'm not quite sure what the purpose of your post is. > > Your political comment about 'modern [western] medical doctors' > is misplaced. It should instead have railed against the > imposition of empiricism and rationality and the consequent > devaluing of intuitive processes. Descartes and his dumbing > down of wisdom to what the imperfect senses can provide to an > imperfect and conditioned mind is the greatest enemy that > humans have known. It will be a toss-up whether we as a race > survive his stupidity. Your 'modern [western] medical doctors' > are just as much victims as any one else. That is why so many of > them are now embracing and referring their patients to > alternative medical practitioners. > > Om and Prem > > , > "Detective_Mongo_Phd" <detective_mongo_phd@h...> wrote: > > Actually Omprem, Dianic Moon Goddess worshippers are > some of the most austere and purely feminine devotees. > Traditional Western feminine mysticism is the wiccan, > midwife/gynocologist, and itself a closed cult until the modern > medical doctor. Of course, the doctor following the work of the > Inquisitor. Prior to that time one can only imagine the great Moon > cults. I imagine that some witches rather died than sell out their > covens, which probably happened to be all the women in the > entire towns. At first. I think nonetheless that a man is used > maybe a few ocassions a year regardless of what was here said > or admitted to. > > - > > omprem > > > > Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:42 AM > > Re: Dianic > > > > > > " I cannot see sense in having male energy involved in any > way > > with a Goddess AKA female belief system... Rather like > adding > > asafoetida to ones tea, ruins the brew and makes one ill. An > all > > female coven bringing male energy in, either by inviting them > > into the actual coven or bringing it in by means of mating with > > one is defeating the whole reason for an all female anything... > To > > escape male influences and reclaim the power of women." > > > > > > From this and other of your posts it is clear that you believe > that > > you have suffered at the hands of some man/men. But > suffering > > is in the eye of the beholder. Every person and event in your > life > > is a karmic presence. To not learn about it and to react > > adamantly against such a karmic presence is only to > increase > > your store of karma. > > > > The universe acts to get your attention. If you do not get its > > message, the message keeps getting repeated with > increasing > > force until you do. Or, you could make subtle enquiries and > > observations about the course of your life, find patterns, find > > answers, make changes in your self and then life > miraculously > > becomes easier. > > > > Why react so aggressively against the events of your life? To > do > > so only obscures your own being, your own divine self. With > such > > reactions you only give up your sense of self and allow that > > sense of self to be defined by outside forces. Better to accept > > what life offers, go within and find your true identity (which will > be > > neither male or female). Once you have an inner sense of > your > > true nature, nothing can take that away or distort it or hid it. > You > > will shine through all adversity, real or perceived. > > > > To rant against males only results in you denying that male > > prana in you and thus preventing it from uniting with the > female > > prana in you to form the spiritual force behind all spiritual > > revelations. You are cutting yourself off from knowledge of > your > > divine nature with this unproductive attitude. Better to be > fearless, > > serene and accepting and come to know yourself as divinity > > personified. > > > > "The pursuit of truth is like picking raspberries. You miss a lot > if > > you approach it from only one angle." --Randal Marlin, > Carleton > > University > > > > > > Om and Prem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------- ------------- > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > b.. > > > > > > c.. Terms > of Service. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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