Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 it isn't about bringing in male energy. its *masculine* and *feminine* energy. we all have both. male and female in ritual or relationship is only a personal preference, doesn't mean much else. ~shahara --- > An all female coven bringing > male energy in, either by inviting them into the actual coven or > bringing it in by means of mating with one is defeating the whole reason > for an all female anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or annamaya kosha. It is not there in the subtle body. , TerraSoLuna@a... wrote: > it isn't about bringing in male energy. > its *masculine* and *feminine* energy. > we all have both. > > male and female in ritual or relationship is only a personal preference, > doesn't mean much else. > > ~shahara > > --- > An all female coven bringing > > male energy in, either by inviting them into the actual coven or > > bringing it in by means of mating with one is defeating the whole reason > > for an all female anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 " Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or annamaya kosha. It is not there in the subtle body." Au contraire. In the pranamaya kosha there are three major nadis and three major pranas. The Ida and Pingala Nadis form a double helix spiraling up from the Muladhara Chakra. The prana that flows through Pingala is called Ha or Prana Vayu. This is considered by Yogis to be masculine. The prana that flows through Ida is called Tha or Apana Vayu and is considered to be feminine. Usually these two pranas flow in opposite directions (sound familiar? we have seeing examples of that all day in this board.). However, the aim of Yoga and indeed of all spiritual practices is to reverse the directions of those two pranas so they now flow toward each other. The two pranas then meet at the Muladhara Chakra and unite to form Kundalini which moves inside the Sushumna Nadi upward through the other 6 major chakras, revealing increasingly subtle spiritual awarenesses until Kundalin eventually arrives at the Sahasrara Chakra and the perceiver finally knows God/Goddess fully and also knows himself/herself as God/Goddess. So there is male and female in the subtle bodies. But their importance for spiritual development lies only in their losing their antipathy to one another and uniting, losing their individuality through merger, in order to form a third entity (Kundalini) which changes one's consciousness as it ascends through the next six chakras. OM Namah Sivaya Omprem , "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or annamaya kosha. > It is not there in the subtle body. > > , TerraSoLuna@a... wrote: > > it isn't about bringing in male energy. > > its *masculine* and *feminine* energy. > > we all have both. > > > > male and female in ritual or relationship is only a personal preference, > > doesn't mean much else. > > > > ~shahara > > > > --- > An all female coven bringing > > > male energy in, either by inviting them into the actual coven or > > > bringing it in by means of mating with one is defeating the whole > reason > > > for an all female anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when prana leaves the body. Astral beings, ghosts, devas, and other sentient beings who never incarnate. The five sheaths are annamaya pranamaya manomaya vijnanamaya anandamaya The first two are there for embodied beings who identify with gender. Aum Namo bhagavati narayani! , "omprem" <omprem> wrote: > " Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or > annamaya kosha. It is not there in the subtle body." > > Au contraire. In the pranamaya kosha there are three major > nadis and three major pranas. The Ida and Pingala Nadis form > a double helix spiraling up from the Muladhara Chakra. The > prana that flows through Pingala is called Ha or Prana Vayu. > This is considered by Yogis to be masculine. The prana that > flows through Ida is called Tha or Apana Vayu and is considered > to be feminine. Usually these two pranas flow in opposite > directions (sound familiar? we have seeing examples of that all > day in this board.). However, the aim of Yoga and indeed of all > spiritual practices is to reverse the directions of those two > pranas so they now flow toward each other. The two pranas then > meet at the Muladhara Chakra and unite to form Kundalini which > moves inside the Sushumna Nadi upward through the other 6 > major chakras, revealing increasingly subtle spiritual > awarenesses until Kundalin eventually arrives at the Sahasrara > Chakra and the perceiver finally knows God/Goddess fully and > also knows himself/herself as God/Goddess. > > So there is male and female in the subtle bodies. But their > importance for spiritual development lies only in their losing their > antipathy to one another and uniting, losing their individuality > through merger, in order to form a third entity (Kundalini) which > changes one's consciousness as it ascends through the next > six chakras. > > OM Namah Sivaya > > Omprem > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or > annamaya kosha. > > It is not there in the subtle body. > > > > , TerraSoLuna@a... > wrote: > > > it isn't about bringing in male energy. > > > its *masculine* and *feminine* energy. > > > we all have both. > > > > > > male and female in ritual or relationship is only a personal > preference, > > > doesn't mean much else. > > > > > > ~shahara > > > > > > --- > An all female coven bringing > > > > male energy in, either by inviting them into the actual coven > or > > > > bringing it in by means of mating with one is defeating the > whole > > reason > > > > for an all female anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 "subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when prana leaves the body." Au contraire, mon ami. The subtle body also known as Linga Sharira or Sukshma Sharira comprises the Pranamaya Kosha, Manomaya Kosha and the Vijnanamaya Kosha. All of these three koshas known as the subtle body survive the death of the physical body as does the Karana Sharia or Anandamaya Kosha. The subtle body, i.e. the Pranamaya, Manamaya and Vijnanamaya Koshas collectively, carry the sense of individuation into the afterworlds and back into the next reincarnation and so on until the cycle ends. The Manomaya Kosha or mental sheath comprises only the mind, sub-conscious and the 5 jnana indriyas or organs of knowledge. The Vijnanamaya Kosha or intellectual sheath comprises the intellect and ego.These two koshas work together. The Antahkarana or Inner Instrument is comprised of the mind and subconscious of the Manomaya Kosha and the intellect and ego of the Vijnanamaya Kosha. The three koshas, Pranamaya, Manomaya and Vignanamaya, work together as together as the Sukshma Sharira and comprise the 19 elements, viz., the five pranas and five organs of action from the Pranamaya Kosha, five organs of knowledge of the Manomaya Kosha and the four elements of the Antahkarana. The first 4 koshas, annamaya, pranamaya, manomaya and vignanamaya, all act within a differentiated world either on the physical plane or on the astral plane. It is only when the individual recognizes that individuality is a false prison and has exhausted all karma that the Anandamaya Kosha or Bliss Sheath dissolves and only Brahman remains. At this stage, the individual has no reason to remain an individual unless to return as an avatar for the benefit of the rest of us. So hum Omprem , "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when prana leaves > the body. Astral beings, ghosts, devas, and other sentient beings who > never incarnate. > > The five sheaths are > > annamaya > pranamaya > > manomaya > vijnanamaya > anandamaya > > The first two are there for embodied beings who identify with gender. > > Aum Namo bhagavati narayani! > > , "omprem" <omprem> wrote: > > " Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or > > annamaya kosha. It is not there in the subtle body." > > > > Au contraire. In the pranamaya kosha there are three major > > nadis and three major pranas. The Ida and Pingala Nadis form > > a double helix spiraling up from the Muladhara Chakra. The > > prana that flows through Pingala is called Ha or Prana Vayu. > > This is considered by Yogis to be masculine. The prana that > > flows through Ida is called Tha or Apana Vayu and is considered > > to be feminine. Usually these two pranas flow in opposite > > directions (sound familiar? we have seeing examples of that all > > day in this board.). However, the aim of Yoga and indeed of all > > spiritual practices is to reverse the directions of those two > > pranas so they now flow toward each other. The two pranas then > > meet at the Muladhara Chakra and unite to form Kundalini which > > moves inside the Sushumna Nadi upward through the other 6 > > major chakras, revealing increasingly subtle spiritual > > awarenesses until Kundalin eventually arrives at the Sahasrara > > Chakra and the perceiver finally knows God/Goddess fully and > > also knows himself/herself as God/Goddess. > > > > So there is male and female in the subtle bodies. But their > > importance for spiritual development lies only in their losing their > > antipathy to one another and uniting, losing their individuality > > through merger, in order to form a third entity (Kundalini) which > > changes one's consciousness as it ascends through the next > > six chakras. > > > > OM Namah Sivaya > > > > Omprem > > > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or > > annamaya kosha. > > > It is not there in the subtle body. > > > > > > , TerraSoLuna@a... > > wrote: > > > > it isn't about bringing in male energy. > > > > its *masculine* and *feminine* energy. > > > > we all have both. > > > > > > > > male and female in ritual or relationship is only a personal > > preference, > > > > doesn't mean much else. > > > > > > > > ~shahara > > > > > > > > --- > An all female coven bringing > > > > > male energy in, either by inviting them into the actual coven > > or > > > > > bringing it in by means of mating with one is defeating the > > whole > > > reason > > > > > for an all female anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 "subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when prana leaves the body." Au contraire, mon ami. The subtle body also known as Linga Sharira or Sukshma Sharira comprises the Pranamaya Kosha, Manomaya Kosha and the Vijnanamaya Kosha. All of these three koshas known as the subtle body survive the death of the physical body as does the Karana Sharia or Anandamaya Kosha. The subtle body, i.e. the Pranamaya, Manamaya and Vijnanamaya Koshas collectively, carry the sense of individuation into the afterworlds and back into the next reincarnation and so on until the cycle ends. The Manomaya Kosha or mental sheath comprises only the mind, sub-conscious and the 5 jnana indriyas or organs of knowledge. The Vijnanamaya Kosha or intellectual sheath comprises the intellect and ego.These two koshas work together. The Antahkarana or Inner Instrument is comprised of the mind and subconscious of the Manomaya Kosha and the intellect and ego of the Vijnanamaya Kosha. The three koshas, Pranamaya, Manomaya and Vignanamaya, work together as together as the Sukshma Sharira and comprise the 19 elements, viz., the five pranas and five organs of action from the Pranamaya Kosha, five organs of knowledge of the Manomaya Kosha and the four elements of the Antahkarana. The first 4 koshas, annamaya, pranamaya, manomaya and vignanamaya, all act within a differentiated world either on the physical plane or on the astral plane. It is only when the individual recognizes that individuality is a false prison and has exhausted all karma that the Anandamaya Kosha or Bliss Sheath dissolves and only Brahman remains. At this stage, the individual has no reason to remain an individual unless to return as an avatar for the benefit of the rest of us. So hum Omprem , "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when prana leaves > the body. Astral beings, ghosts, devas, and other sentient beings who > never incarnate. > > The five sheaths are > > annamaya > pranamaya > > manomaya > vijnanamaya > anandamaya > > The first two are there for embodied beings who identify with gender. > > Aum Namo bhagavati narayani! > > , "omprem" <omprem> wrote: > > " Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or > > annamaya kosha. It is not there in the subtle body." > > > > Au contraire. In the pranamaya kosha there are three major > > nadis and three major pranas. The Ida and Pingala Nadis form > > a double helix spiraling up from the Muladhara Chakra. The > > prana that flows through Pingala is called Ha or Prana Vayu. > > This is considered by Yogis to be masculine. The prana that > > flows through Ida is called Tha or Apana Vayu and is considered > > to be feminine. Usually these two pranas flow in opposite > > directions (sound familiar? we have seeing examples of that all > > day in this board.). However, the aim of Yoga and indeed of all > > spiritual practices is to reverse the directions of those two > > pranas so they now flow toward each other. The two pranas then > > meet at the Muladhara Chakra and unite to form Kundalini which > > moves inside the Sushumna Nadi upward through the other 6 > > major chakras, revealing increasingly subtle spiritual > > awarenesses until Kundalin eventually arrives at the Sahasrara > > Chakra and the perceiver finally knows God/Goddess fully and > > also knows himself/herself as God/Goddess. > > > > So there is male and female in the subtle bodies. But their > > importance for spiritual development lies only in their losing their > > antipathy to one another and uniting, losing their individuality > > through merger, in order to form a third entity (Kundalini) which > > changes one's consciousness as it ascends through the next > > six chakras. > > > > OM Namah Sivaya > > > > Omprem > > > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or > > annamaya kosha. > > > It is not there in the subtle body. > > > > > > , TerraSoLuna@a... > > wrote: > > > > it isn't about bringing in male energy. > > > > its *masculine* and *feminine* energy. > > > > we all have both. > > > > > > > > male and female in ritual or relationship is only a personal > > preference, > > > > doesn't mean much else. > > > > > > > > ~shahara > > > > > > > > --- > An all female coven bringing > > > > > male energy in, either by inviting them into the actual coven > > or > > > > > bringing it in by means of mating with one is defeating the > > whole > > > reason > > > > > for an all female anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 The true magickal adepts in the West strive to balance both male and female energies so that they may avail themselves of both. This is also evidently the case in the East as well, in the depiction of the Shiva Ardhanarishvara (The Lord who is Half Female) as a being male on one side and female on the other. This could also equally be "Ardhanarishvari" (The Goddess who is half Male) as well since both energies are equally balanced. We cannot have the Nurturing Masculine without acknowledging the Phallic Feminine. There is a beautiful depiction of the male-female Sadashiva on the cover of the Book "Kundalini" by Robert Svoboda. It was in this form that Kali came to me personally and awakened my Kundalini. Lilith M. --- TerraSoLuna wrote: > it isn't about bringing in male energy. > its *masculine* and *feminine* energy. > we all have both. > > male and female in ritual or relationship is only a > personal preference, > doesn't mean much else. > > ~shahara > > --- > An all female coven bringing > > male energy in, either by inviting them into the > actual coven or > > bringing it in by means of mating with one is > defeating the whole reason > > for an all female anything. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 If subtle body had gender, reicarnation would require another death. As i understand, it does not have gender and can manifest as both male and female. Control of elements, comes from dissolution of prana, entry into visuddha chakra. This is what i understand of astral life. If subtle body had apana, then it is still embodied. , "omprem" <omprem> wrote: > "subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when prana > leaves the body." > > Au contraire, mon ami. The subtle body also known as Linga > Sharira or Sukshma Sharira comprises the Pranamaya Kosha, > Manomaya Kosha and the Vijnanamaya Kosha. All of these three > koshas known as the subtle body survive the death of the > physical body as does the Karana Sharia or Anandamaya > Kosha. > > The subtle body, i.e. the Pranamaya, Manamaya and > Vijnanamaya Koshas collectively, carry the sense of individuation > into the afterworlds and back into the next reincarnation and so > on until the cycle ends. > > The Manomaya Kosha or mental sheath comprises only the > mind, sub-conscious and the 5 jnana indriyas or organs of > knowledge. The Vijnanamaya Kosha or intellectual sheath > comprises the intellect and ego.These two koshas work > together. The Antahkarana or Inner Instrument is comprised of > the mind and subconscious of the Manomaya Kosha and the > intellect and ego of the Vijnanamaya Kosha. > > The three koshas, Pranamaya, Manomaya and Vignanamaya, > work together as together as the Sukshma Sharira and > comprise the 19 elements, viz., the five pranas and five organs of > action from the Pranamaya Kosha, five organs of knowledge of > the Manomaya Kosha and the four elements of the Antahkarana. > > The first 4 koshas, annamaya, pranamaya, manomaya and > vignanamaya, all act within a differentiated world either on the > physical plane or on the astral plane. It is only when the > individual recognizes that individuality is a false prison and has > exhausted all karma that the Anandamaya Kosha or Bliss > Sheath dissolves and only Brahman remains. At this stage, the > individual has no reason to remain an individual unless to return > as an avatar for the benefit of the rest of us. > > So hum > > Omprem > > > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when prana > leaves > > the body. Astral beings, ghosts, devas, and other sentient > beings who > > never incarnate. > > > > The five sheaths are > > > > annamaya > > pranamaya > > > > manomaya > > vijnanamaya > > anandamaya > > > > The first two are there for embodied beings who identify with > gender. > > > > Aum Namo bhagavati narayani! > > > > , "omprem" > <omprem> wrote: > > > " Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or > > > annamaya kosha. It is not there in the subtle body." > > > > > > Au contraire. In the pranamaya kosha there are three major > > > nadis and three major pranas. The Ida and Pingala Nadis > form > > > a double helix spiraling up from the Muladhara Chakra. The > > > prana that flows through Pingala is called Ha or Prana Vayu. > > > This is considered by Yogis to be masculine. The prana that > > > flows through Ida is called Tha or Apana Vayu and is > considered > > > to be feminine. Usually these two pranas flow in opposite > > > directions (sound familiar? we have seeing examples of that > all > > > day in this board.). However, the aim of Yoga and indeed of > all > > > spiritual practices is to reverse the directions of those two > > > pranas so they now flow toward each other. The two pranas > then > > > meet at the Muladhara Chakra and unite to form Kundalini > which > > > moves inside the Sushumna Nadi upward through the other > 6 > > > major chakras, revealing increasingly subtle spiritual > > > awarenesses until Kundalin eventually arrives at the > Sahasrara > > > Chakra and the perceiver finally knows God/Goddess fully > and > > > also knows himself/herself as God/Goddess. > > > > > > So there is male and female in the subtle bodies. But their > > > importance for spiritual development lies only in their losing > their > > > antipathy to one another and uniting, losing their individuality > > > through merger, in order to form a third entity (Kundalini) > which > > > changes one's consciousness as it ascends through the > next > > > six chakras. > > > > > > OM Namah Sivaya > > > > > > Omprem > > > > > > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or > > > annamaya kosha. > > > > It is not there in the subtle body. > > > > > > > > , > TerraSoLuna@a... > > > wrote: > > > > > it isn't about bringing in male energy. > > > > > its *masculine* and *feminine* energy. > > > > > we all have both. > > > > > > > > > > male and female in ritual or relationship is only a > personal > > > preference, > > > > > doesn't mean much else. > > > > > > > > > > ~shahara > > > > > > > > > > --- > An all female coven bringing > > > > > > male energy in, either by inviting them into the actual > coven > > > or > > > > > > bringing it in by means of mating with one is defeating > the > > > whole > > > > reason > > > > > > for an all female anything. 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Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 The subtle body, Sukshma Sharira, does not have gender as such. It has in the Pranamaya Kosha part of it, five major pranas. Two of these are the prana and apana to which you refer and it is these that are characterized as male (prana) and female (apana). But you cannot have one without the other and the other major and minor pranas as well. But the rest of the subtle body, especially the Manomaya Kosha does have conscious and subconscious thoughts of gender. And these thoughts will effect the next lives. It is said that the last thought one has at the moment of physical death is what one will reincarnate as. For example, if one has a strong hatred of those of the opposite gender at the moment of death, they will reincarnate as the object of that hatred. Something to think about for some of the members of this board. Similarly, of course, for those who have a strong attachment to those of the opposite gender. Prana is one of the 19 elements so one cannot control the elements through the dissolution of one of them (i.e. prana). Also, Prana's normal field of influence is the chest and the anahata chakra which does not seem to lead to a connection with the vishuddha chakra. Om and Prem , "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > If subtle body had gender, reicarnation would require another death. > As i understand, it does not have gender and can manifest as both male > and female. > > Control of elements, comes from dissolution of prana, entry into > visuddha chakra. This is what i understand of astral life. > If subtle body had apana, then it is still embodied. > > , "omprem" <omprem> wrote: > > "subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when prana > > leaves the body." > > > > Au contraire, mon ami. The subtle body also known as Linga > > Sharira or Sukshma Sharira comprises the Pranamaya Kosha, > > Manomaya Kosha and the Vijnanamaya Kosha. All of these three > > koshas known as the subtle body survive the death of the > > physical body as does the Karana Sharia or Anandamaya > > Kosha. > > > > The subtle body, i.e. the Pranamaya, Manamaya and > > Vijnanamaya Koshas collectively, carry the sense of individuation > > into the afterworlds and back into the next reincarnation and so > > on until the cycle ends. > > > > The Manomaya Kosha or mental sheath comprises only the > > mind, sub-conscious and the 5 jnana indriyas or organs of > > knowledge. The Vijnanamaya Kosha or intellectual sheath > > comprises the intellect and ego.These two koshas work > > together. The Antahkarana or Inner Instrument is comprised of > > the mind and subconscious of the Manomaya Kosha and the > > intellect and ego of the Vijnanamaya Kosha. > > > > The three koshas, Pranamaya, Manomaya and Vignanamaya, > > work together as together as the Sukshma Sharira and > > comprise the 19 elements, viz., the five pranas and five organs of > > action from the Pranamaya Kosha, five organs of knowledge of > > the Manomaya Kosha and the four elements of the Antahkarana. > > > > The first 4 koshas, annamaya, pranamaya, manomaya and > > vignanamaya, all act within a differentiated world either on the > > physical plane or on the astral plane. It is only when the > > individual recognizes that individuality is a false prison and has > > exhausted all karma that the Anandamaya Kosha or Bliss > > Sheath dissolves and only Brahman remains. At this stage, the > > individual has no reason to remain an individual unless to return > > as an avatar for the benefit of the rest of us. > > > > So hum > > > > Omprem > > > > > > > > > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when prana > > leaves > > > the body. Astral beings, ghosts, devas, and other sentient > > beings who > > > never incarnate. > > > > > > The five sheaths are > > > > > > annamaya > > > pranamaya > > > > > > manomaya > > > vijnanamaya > > > anandamaya > > > > > > The first two are there for embodied beings who identify with > > gender. > > > > > > Aum Namo bhagavati narayani! > > > > > > , "omprem" > > <omprem> wrote: > > > > " Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or > > > > annamaya kosha. It is not there in the subtle body." > > > > > > > > Au contraire. In the pranamaya kosha there are three major > > > > nadis and three major pranas. The Ida and Pingala Nadis > > form > > > > a double helix spiraling up from the Muladhara Chakra. The > > > > prana that flows through Pingala is called Ha or Prana Vayu. > > > > This is considered by Yogis to be masculine. The prana that > > > > flows through Ida is called Tha or Apana Vayu and is > > considered > > > > to be feminine. Usually these two pranas flow in opposite > > > > directions (sound familiar? we have seeing examples of that > > all > > > > day in this board.). However, the aim of Yoga and indeed of > > all > > > > spiritual practices is to reverse the directions of those two > > > > pranas so they now flow toward each other. The two pranas > > then > > > > meet at the Muladhara Chakra and unite to form Kundalini > > which > > > > moves inside the Sushumna Nadi upward through the other > > 6 > > > > major chakras, revealing increasingly subtle spiritual > > > > awarenesses until Kundalin eventually arrives at the > > Sahasrara > > > > Chakra and the perceiver finally knows God/Goddess fully > > and > > > > also knows himself/herself as God/Goddess. > > > > > > > > So there is male and female in the subtle bodies. But their > > > > importance for spiritual development lies only in their losing > > their > > > > antipathy to one another and uniting, losing their individuality > > > > through merger, in order to form a third entity (Kundalini) > > which > > > > changes one's consciousness as it ascends through the > > next > > > > six chakras. > > > > > > > > OM Namah Sivaya > > > > > > > > Omprem > > > > > > > > > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > > > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > > Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or > > > > annamaya kosha. > > > > > It is not there in the subtle body. > > > > > > > > > > , > > TerraSoLuna@a... > > > > wrote: > > > > > > it isn't about bringing in male energy. > > > > > > its *masculine* and *feminine* energy. > > > > > > we all have both. > > > > > > > > > > > > male and female in ritual or relationship is only a > > personal > > > > preference, > > > > > > doesn't mean much else. > > > > > > > > > > > > ~shahara > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > An all female coven bringing > > > > > > > male energy in, either by inviting them into the actual > > coven > > > > or > > > > > > > bringing it in by means of mating with one is defeating > > the > > > > whole > > > > > reason > > > > > > > for an all female anything. 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Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Hi Ellen: You wrote: "I don't know the Sanskrit terminology beyond your basic New Age chakra chatter, so I can't express it that way. Is there some spiritual "Gray's Anatomy" where I can learn about all these sheaths etc?" In my opinion, you can't do better than "The Serpent Power" by Sir John Woodroffe a/k/a Arthur Avalon. There are prettier books, easier- to-read books, more New Age-palitable books out there ... but it sounds like you're a serious thinker interested in really getting to the heart of some very subtle, very refined philosophical and spiritual terminology and conceptualizations. If so, IMHO, it is still (80+ years after its original publication) the best, most utterly authentic English-language source on the market. In case you're interested, here's the Amazon.com URL: AMAZON.COM URL: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/- /0486230589/qid=1096497732/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-3766265- 2254243?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 Good luck DB -- In , "Ellen McGowen" <ellen.mcgowen@w...> wrote: > > It would make a lot of sense of my experiences and those of other trans > people I know if some part of the soul carried aspects of gender from life > to life, and yet were not eternally fixed to one binary gender. I don't know > how it would work. A purely temperamental bias affecting intrauterine brain > development? A kind of morphic impression the physical body leaves on the > soul? > > I came to this view a long time ago, but I don't know the Sanskrit > terminology beyond your basic New Age chakra chatter, so I can't > express it that way. Is there some spiritual "Gray's Anatomy" where > I can learn about all these sheaths etc ? > > Namaste, > Ellen > > - > malyavan_tibet > > Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:24 AM > Re: We All Have Female & Male Energy > > > If subtle body had gender, reicarnation would require another death. > As i understand, it does not have gender and can manifest as both male > and female. > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Prana has a specific meaning but in literature it is used to describe all the "Pranas". Dissolution of the air element. Just like you close your eyes and can withdraw from the sense of vision(although not completely), try doing the same thing with the sense of touch. This is what i mean by dissolution of the air element. On the path to transcendence, senses can be a distraction. So mastery over the corresponding sense and action in each chakra will make you go up. Before you can meditate on the space principle, you have to be able to fold the other four indiryas. This is what i meant by entry into vishudha chakra. To quote some famous people along the samelines, if you read Sivanandas literature, he says, one has risen above muladhara when he/she realizes that there's no real solid reality. Pradeep , "omprem" <omprem> wrote: > The subtle body, Sukshma Sharira, does not have gender as > such. It has in the Pranamaya Kosha part of it, five major pranas. > Two of these are the prana and apana to which you refer and it is > these that are characterized as male (prana) and female > (apana). But you cannot have one without the other and the other > major and minor pranas as well. > > But the rest of the subtle body, especially the Manomaya Kosha > does have conscious and subconscious thoughts of gender. > And these thoughts will effect the next lives. > > It is said that the last thought one has at the moment of physical > death is what one will reincarnate as. For example, if one has a > strong hatred of those of the opposite gender at the moment of > death, they will reincarnate as the object of that hatred. > Something to think about for some of the members of this board. > Similarly, of course, for those who have a strong attachment to > those of the opposite gender. > > Prana is one of the 19 elements so one cannot control the > elements through the dissolution of one of them (i.e. prana). > Also, Prana's normal field of influence is the chest and the > anahata chakra which does not seem to lead to a connection > with the vishuddha chakra. > > > Om and Prem > > , "malyavan_tibet" > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > If subtle body had gender, reicarnation would require another > death. > > As i understand, it does not have gender and can manifest as > both male > > and female. > > > > Control of elements, comes from dissolution of prana, entry > into > > visuddha chakra. This is what i understand of astral life. > > If subtle body had apana, then it is still embodied. > > > > , "omprem" > <omprem> wrote: > > > "subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when > prana > > > leaves the body." > > > > > > Au contraire, mon ami. The subtle body also known as Linga > > > Sharira or Sukshma Sharira comprises the Pranamaya > Kosha, > > > Manomaya Kosha and the Vijnanamaya Kosha. All of these > three > > > koshas known as the subtle body survive the death of the > > > physical body as does the Karana Sharia or Anandamaya > > > Kosha. > > > > > > The subtle body, i.e. the Pranamaya, Manamaya and > > > Vijnanamaya Koshas collectively, carry the sense of > individuation > > > into the afterworlds and back into the next reincarnation and > so > > > on until the cycle ends. > > > > > > The Manomaya Kosha or mental sheath comprises only the > > > mind, sub-conscious and the 5 jnana indriyas or organs of > > > knowledge. The Vijnanamaya Kosha or intellectual sheath > > > comprises the intellect and ego.These two koshas work > > > together. The Antahkarana or Inner Instrument is comprised > of > > > the mind and subconscious of the Manomaya Kosha and the > > > intellect and ego of the Vijnanamaya Kosha. > > > > > > The three koshas, Pranamaya, Manomaya and > Vignanamaya, > > > work together as together as the Sukshma Sharira and > > > comprise the 19 elements, viz., the five pranas and five > organs of > > > action from the Pranamaya Kosha, five organs of knowledge > of > > > the Manomaya Kosha and the four elements of the > Antahkarana. > > > > > > The first 4 koshas, annamaya, pranamaya, manomaya and > > > vignanamaya, all act within a differentiated world either on > the > > > physical plane or on the astral plane. It is only when the > > > individual recognizes that individuality is a false prison and > has > > > exhausted all karma that the Anandamaya Kosha or Bliss > > > Sheath dissolves and only Brahman remains. At this stage, > the > > > individual has no reason to remain an individual unless to > return > > > as an avatar for the benefit of the rest of us. > > > > > > So hum > > > > > > Omprem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when > prana > > > leaves > > > > the body. Astral beings, ghosts, devas, and other sentient > > > beings who > > > > never incarnate. > > > > > > > > The five sheaths are > > > > > > > > annamaya > > > > pranamaya > > > > > > > > manomaya > > > > vijnanamaya > > > > anandamaya > > > > > > > > The first two are there for embodied beings who identify > with > > > gender. > > > > > > > > Aum Namo bhagavati narayani! > > > > > > > > , "omprem" > > > <omprem> wrote: > > > > > " Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or > > > > > annamaya kosha. It is not there in the subtle body." > > > > > > > > > > Au contraire. In the pranamaya kosha there are three > major > > > > > nadis and three major pranas. The Ida and Pingala > Nadis > > > form > > > > > a double helix spiraling up from the Muladhara Chakra. > The > > > > > prana that flows through Pingala is called Ha or Prana > Vayu. > > > > > This is considered by Yogis to be masculine. The prana > that > > > > > flows through Ida is called Tha or Apana Vayu and is > > > considered > > > > > to be feminine. Usually these two pranas flow in opposite > > > > > directions (sound familiar? we have seeing examples of > that > > > all > > > > > day in this board.). However, the aim of Yoga and indeed > of > > > all > > > > > spiritual practices is to reverse the directions of those two > > > > > pranas so they now flow toward each other. The two > pranas > > > then > > > > > meet at the Muladhara Chakra and unite to form > Kundalini > > > which > > > > > moves inside the Sushumna Nadi upward through the > other > > > 6 > > > > > major chakras, revealing increasingly subtle spiritual > > > > > awarenesses until Kundalin eventually arrives at the > > > Sahasrara > > > > > Chakra and the perceiver finally knows God/Goddess > fully > > > and > > > > > also knows himself/herself as God/Goddess. > > > > > > > > > > So there is male and female in the subtle bodies. But > their > > > > > importance for spiritual development lies only in their > losing > > > their > > > > > antipathy to one another and uniting, losing their > individuality > > > > > through merger, in order to form a third entity (Kundalini) > > > which > > > > > changes one's consciousness as it ascends through the > > > next > > > > > six chakras. > > > > > > > > > > OM Namah Sivaya > > > > > > > > > > Omprem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > "malyavan_tibet" > > > > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > > > Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or > > > > > annamaya kosha. > > > > > > It is not there in the subtle body. > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > TerraSoLuna@a... > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > it isn't about bringing in male energy. > > > > > > > its *masculine* and *feminine* energy. > > > > > > > we all have both. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > male and female in ritual or relationship is only a > > > personal > > > > > preference, > > > > > > > doesn't mean much else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~shahara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > An all female coven bringing > > > > > > > > male energy in, either by inviting them into the > actual > > > coven > > > > > or > > > > > > > > bringing it in by means of mating with one is > defeating > > > the > > > > > whole > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > for an all female anything. 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Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Search for panch kosha (pancha kosha) in the internet. There is lot of literature in the net. , "Ellen McGowen" <ellen.mcgowen@w...> wrote: > > It would make a lot of sense of my experiences and those of other trans > people I know if some part of the soul carried aspects of gender from life > to life, and yet were not eternally fixed to one binary gender. I don't know > how it would work. A purely temperamental bias affecting intrauterine brain > development? A kind of morphic impression the physical body leaves on the > soul? > > I came to this view a long time ago, but I don't know the Sanskrit > terminology beyond your basic New Age chakra chatter, so I can't > express it that way. Is there some spiritual "Gray's Anatomy" where > I can learn about all these sheaths etc ? > > Namaste, > Ellen > > - > malyavan_tibet > > Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:24 AM > Re: We All Have Female & Male Energy > > > If subtle body had gender, reicarnation would require another death. > As i understand, it does not have gender and can manifest as both male > and female. > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 You are correct that 'prana' has both a generic and a specific meaning. 'Prana' can refer to any energetic movement in the energetic body but it also and confusingly can refer to the specific prana that flows through the pingala nadi and is associated with the anahata chakra. When you speak of 'dissolution of the air element', you are refering to pratyahara, withdrawing the mind and the senses from the external world and turning them inward. This is the pivotal stage of Raja Yoga. It is the last of the 5 stages of exterior methods concerning the body, mind and prana. The last 3 stages are the innner methods concerned with the development and transcendence of the mind. Each of them has many levels. Those last three stages are dharana or focusing on a single object; dhyana, deepening concentration or meditation; and samadhi or absorption in the Spirit or Brahman. I'm fairly familiar with Swami Sivananda's approach and have many of his books. Your statement about him doesn't quite ring true. Could you supply a reference for that? The only meaning that I can ascribe at the moment to your statement that Swami Sivananda said "one has risen above muladhara when he/she realizes that there's no real solid reality.", is that he might have been refering to the idea that the Muladhara Chakra does not open to the passage of Kundalini if its functioning is impaired with thoughts of insecurity. That insecurity will disappear when one realizes that our apparent reality is a mirage and has no impact on who we truely are and that the only reality is Brahman. But this idea is quite right either because there will be imbalances in the other chakras due to misconceptions about the phenomenal 'reality'. So, this statement could only mean that kundalini rises through all the chakras when our ignorance is dispelled. But this stage is the last, not the first step in the process of spiritual evolution. So, you can appreciate that you need to identify your source to clear up this contradiction and so that we can know whether this is indeed Swami Sivananda's view or only your interpretation of what he said. Om and Prem , "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > Prana has a specific meaning but in literature it is used to describe > all the "Pranas". > > Dissolution of the air element. > Just like you close your eyes and can withdraw from the sense of > vision(although not completely), try doing the same thing with the > sense of touch. This is what i mean by dissolution of the air element. > > On the path to transcendence, senses can be a distraction. So mastery > over the corresponding sense and action in each chakra will make you > go up. Before you can meditate on the space principle, you have to be > able to fold the other four indiryas. This is what i meant by entry > into vishudha chakra. > > To quote some famous people along the samelines, if you read > Sivanandas literature, he says, one has risen above muladhara when > he/she realizes that there's no real solid reality. > > Pradeep > > > , "omprem" <omprem> wrote: > > The subtle body, Sukshma Sharira, does not have gender as > > such. It has in the Pranamaya Kosha part of it, five major pranas. > > Two of these are the prana and apana to which you refer and it is > > these that are characterized as male (prana) and female > > (apana). But you cannot have one without the other and the other > > major and minor pranas as well. > > > > But the rest of the subtle body, especially the Manomaya Kosha > > does have conscious and subconscious thoughts of gender. > > And these thoughts will effect the next lives. > > > > It is said that the last thought one has at the moment of physical > > death is what one will reincarnate as. For example, if one has a > > strong hatred of those of the opposite gender at the moment of > > death, they will reincarnate as the object of that hatred. > > Something to think about for some of the members of this board. > > Similarly, of course, for those who have a strong attachment to > > those of the opposite gender. > > > > Prana is one of the 19 elements so one cannot control the > > elements through the dissolution of one of them (i.e. prana). > > Also, Prana's normal field of influence is the chest and the > > anahata chakra which does not seem to lead to a connection > > with the vishuddha chakra. > > > > > > Om and Prem > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > If subtle body had gender, reicarnation would require another > > death. > > > As i understand, it does not have gender and can manifest as > > both male > > > and female. > > > > > > Control of elements, comes from dissolution of prana, entry > > into > > > visuddha chakra. This is what i understand of astral life. > > > If subtle body had apana, then it is still embodied. > > > > > > , "omprem" > > <omprem> wrote: > > > > "subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when > > prana > > > > leaves the body." > > > > > > > > Au contraire, mon ami. The subtle body also known as Linga > > > > Sharira or Sukshma Sharira comprises the Pranamaya > > Kosha, > > > > Manomaya Kosha and the Vijnanamaya Kosha. All of these > > three > > > > koshas known as the subtle body survive the death of the > > > > physical body as does the Karana Sharia or Anandamaya > > > > Kosha. > > > > > > > > The subtle body, i.e. the Pranamaya, Manamaya and > > > > Vijnanamaya Koshas collectively, carry the sense of > > individuation > > > > into the afterworlds and back into the next reincarnation and > > so > > > > on until the cycle ends. > > > > > > > > The Manomaya Kosha or mental sheath comprises only the > > > > mind, sub-conscious and the 5 jnana indriyas or organs of > > > > knowledge. The Vijnanamaya Kosha or intellectual sheath > > > > comprises the intellect and ego.These two koshas work > > > > together. The Antahkarana or Inner Instrument is comprised > > of > > > > the mind and subconscious of the Manomaya Kosha and the > > > > intellect and ego of the Vijnanamaya Kosha. > > > > > > > > The three koshas, Pranamaya, Manomaya and > > Vignanamaya, > > > > work together as together as the Sukshma Sharira and > > > > comprise the 19 elements, viz., the five pranas and five > > organs of > > > > action from the Pranamaya Kosha, five organs of knowledge > > of > > > > the Manomaya Kosha and the four elements of the > > Antahkarana. > > > > > > > > The first 4 koshas, annamaya, pranamaya, manomaya and > > > > vignanamaya, all act within a differentiated world either on > > the > > > > physical plane or on the astral plane. It is only when the > > > > individual recognizes that individuality is a false prison and > > has > > > > exhausted all karma that the Anandamaya Kosha or Bliss > > > > Sheath dissolves and only Brahman remains. At this stage, > > the > > > > individual has no reason to remain an individual unless to > > return > > > > as an avatar for the benefit of the rest of us. > > > > > > > > So hum > > > > > > > > Omprem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > > > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > > subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when > > prana > > > > leaves > > > > > the body. Astral beings, ghosts, devas, and other sentient > > > > beings who > > > > > never incarnate. > > > > > > > > > > The five sheaths are > > > > > > > > > > annamaya > > > > > pranamaya > > > > > > > > > > manomaya > > > > > vijnanamaya > > > > > anandamaya > > > > > > > > > > The first two are there for embodied beings who identify > > with > > > > gender. > > > > > > > > > > Aum Namo bhagavati narayani! > > > > > > > > > > , "omprem" > > > > <omprem> wrote: > > > > > > " Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or > > > > > > annamaya kosha. It is not there in the subtle body." > > > > > > > > > > > > Au contraire. In the pranamaya kosha there are three > > major > > > > > > nadis and three major pranas. The Ida and Pingala > > Nadis > > > > form > > > > > > a double helix spiraling up from the Muladhara Chakra. > > The > > > > > > prana that flows through Pingala is called Ha or Prana > > Vayu. > > > > > > This is considered by Yogis to be masculine. The prana > > that > > > > > > flows through Ida is called Tha or Apana Vayu and is > > > > considered > > > > > > to be feminine. Usually these two pranas flow in opposite > > > > > > directions (sound familiar? we have seeing examples of > > that > > > > all > > > > > > day in this board.). However, the aim of Yoga and indeed > > of > > > > all > > > > > > spiritual practices is to reverse the directions of those two > > > > > > pranas so they now flow toward each other. The two > > pranas > > > > then > > > > > > meet at the Muladhara Chakra and unite to form > > Kundalini > > > > which > > > > > > moves inside the Sushumna Nadi upward through the > > other > > > > 6 > > > > > > major chakras, revealing increasingly subtle spiritual > > > > > > awarenesses until Kundalin eventually arrives at the > > > > Sahasrara > > > > > > Chakra and the perceiver finally knows God/Goddess > > fully > > > > and > > > > > > also knows himself/herself as God/Goddess. > > > > > > > > > > > > So there is male and female in the subtle bodies. But > > their > > > > > > importance for spiritual development lies only in their > > losing > > > > their > > > > > > antipathy to one another and uniting, losing their > > individuality > > > > > > through merger, in order to form a third entity (Kundalini) > > > > which > > > > > > changes one's consciousness as it ascends through the > > > > next > > > > > > six chakras. > > > > > > > > > > > > OM Namah Sivaya > > > > > > > > > > > > Omprem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > "malyavan_tibet" > > > > > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > > > > Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, or > > > > > > annamaya kosha. > > > > > > > It is not there in the subtle body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > TerraSoLuna@a... > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > it isn't about bringing in male energy. > > > > > > > > its *masculine* and *feminine* energy. > > > > > > > > we all have both. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > male and female in ritual or relationship is only a > > > > personal > > > > > > preference, > > > > > > > > doesn't mean much else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~shahara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > An all female coven bringing > > > > > > > > > male energy in, either by inviting them into the > > actual > > > > coven > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > bringing it in by means of mating with one is > > defeating > > > > the > > > > > > whole > > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > > for an all female anything. 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Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 One of the clearest and most detailed equivalents of a spirtual 'Gray's Anatomy' is Swami Vishnu Devananda's, 'The Complete Illustrated Book of Yoga'. For those who are into uber-detail, there is 'Layayoga:The Definitive Guide to the Chakras and Kundalini' by Shyam Sundar Goswami. Om and Prem , "Ellen McGowen" <ellen.mcgowen@w...> wrote: > > It would make a lot of sense of my experiences and those of other trans > people I know if some part of the soul carried aspects of gender from life > to life, and yet were not eternally fixed to one binary gender. I don't know > how it would work. A purely temperamental bias affecting intrauterine brain > development? A kind of morphic impression the physical body leaves on the > soul? > > I came to this view a long time ago, but I don't know the Sanskrit > terminology beyond your basic New Age chakra chatter, so I can't > express it that way. Is there some spiritual "Gray's Anatomy" where > I can learn about all these sheaths etc ? > > Namaste, > Ellen > > - > malyavan_tibet > > Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:24 AM > Re: We All Have Female & Male Energy > > > If subtle body had gender, reicarnation would require another death. > As i understand, it does not have gender and can manifest as both male > and female. > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 The nadi dissolution is the victory over the elements, freedom from the elements, separation of the elements. This is from shiva sutras. You can call it pratyahara, but in patanjalis yoga, after pratyahara one does dharana, on a mantra or yantra, but how can one chant a mantra without the sense of sound or visualize without the sense of vision. Thats why i used the term folding the indriyas, so that sense does not exist even in your thoughts and associations. When i get hold of an online version from Sivananda writings about his interpretation of muladhara activation, i will let you know. Till then you can take it as my interpretation. , "omprem" <omprem> wrote: > You are correct that 'prana' has both a generic and a specific > meaning. 'Prana' can refer to any energetic movement in the > energetic body but it also and confusingly can refer to the > specific prana that flows through the pingala nadi and is > associated with the anahata chakra. > > > When you speak of 'dissolution of the air element', you are > refering to pratyahara, withdrawing the mind and the senses > from the external world and turning them inward. This is the > pivotal stage of Raja Yoga. It is the last of the 5 stages of exterior > methods concerning the body, mind and prana. The last 3 > stages are the innner methods concerned with the development > and transcendence of the mind. Each of them has many levels. > Those last three stages are dharana or focusing on a single > object; dhyana, deepening concentration or meditation; and > samadhi or absorption in the Spirit or Brahman. > > I'm fairly familiar with Swami Sivananda's approach and have > many of his books. Your statement about him doesn't quite ring > true. Could you supply a reference for that? > > The only meaning that I can ascribe at the moment to your > statement that Swami Sivananda said "one has risen above > muladhara when he/she realizes that there's no real solid > reality.", is that he might have been refering to the idea that the > Muladhara Chakra does not open to the passage of Kundalini if > its functioning is impaired with thoughts of insecurity. That > insecurity will disappear when one realizes that our apparent > reality is a mirage and has no impact on who we truely are and > that the only reality is Brahman. But this idea is quite right either > because there will be imbalances in the other chakras due to > misconceptions about the phenomenal 'reality'. So, this > statement could only mean that kundalini rises through all the > chakras when our ignorance is dispelled. But this stage is the > last, not the first step in the process of spiritual evolution. > > So, you can appreciate that you need to identify your source to > clear up this contradiction and so that we can know whether this > is indeed Swami Sivananda's view or only your interpretation of > what he said. > > > > Om and Prem > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > Prana has a specific meaning but in literature it is used to > describe > > all the "Pranas". > > > > Dissolution of the air element. > > Just like you close your eyes and can withdraw from the sense > of > > vision(although not completely), try doing the same thing with > the > > sense of touch. This is what i mean by dissolution of the air > element. > > > > On the path to transcendence, senses can be a distraction. So > mastery > > over the corresponding sense and action in each chakra will > make you > > go up. Before you can meditate on the space principle, you > have to be > > able to fold the other four indiryas. This is what i meant by entry > > into vishudha chakra. > > > > To quote some famous people along the samelines, if you > read > > Sivanandas literature, he says, one has risen above > muladhara when > > he/she realizes that there's no real solid reality. > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > , "omprem" > <omprem> wrote: > > > The subtle body, Sukshma Sharira, does not have gender as > > > such. It has in the Pranamaya Kosha part of it, five major > pranas. > > > Two of these are the prana and apana to which you refer and > it is > > > these that are characterized as male (prana) and female > > > (apana). But you cannot have one without the other and the > other > > > major and minor pranas as well. > > > > > > But the rest of the subtle body, especially the Manomaya > Kosha > > > does have conscious and subconscious thoughts of gender. > > > And these thoughts will effect the next lives. > > > > > > It is said that the last thought one has at the moment of > physical > > > death is what one will reincarnate as. For example, if one > has a > > > strong hatred of those of the opposite gender at the moment > of > > > death, they will reincarnate as the object of that hatred. > > > Something to think about for some of the members of this > board. > > > Similarly, of course, for those who have a strong attachment > to > > > those of the opposite gender. > > > > > > Prana is one of the 19 elements so one cannot control the > > > elements through the dissolution of one of them (i.e. prana). > > > Also, Prana's normal field of influence is the chest and the > > > anahata chakra which does not seem to lead to a connection > > > with the vishuddha chakra. > > > > > > > > > Om and Prem > > > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > If subtle body had gender, reicarnation would require > another > > > death. > > > > As i understand, it does not have gender and can manifest > as > > > both male > > > > and female. > > > > > > > > Control of elements, comes from dissolution of prana, > entry > > > into > > > > visuddha chakra. This is what i understand of astral life. > > > > If subtle body had apana, then it is still embodied. > > > > > > > > , "omprem" > > > <omprem> wrote: > > > > > "subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when > > > prana > > > > > leaves the body." > > > > > > > > > > Au contraire, mon ami. The subtle body also known as > Linga > > > > > Sharira or Sukshma Sharira comprises the Pranamaya > > > Kosha, > > > > > Manomaya Kosha and the Vijnanamaya Kosha. All of > these > > > three > > > > > koshas known as the subtle body survive the death of the > > > > > physical body as does the Karana Sharia or Anandamaya > > > > > Kosha. > > > > > > > > > > The subtle body, i.e. the Pranamaya, Manamaya and > > > > > Vijnanamaya Koshas collectively, carry the sense of > > > individuation > > > > > into the afterworlds and back into the next reincarnation > and > > > so > > > > > on until the cycle ends. > > > > > > > > > > The Manomaya Kosha or mental sheath comprises only > the > > > > > mind, sub-conscious and the 5 jnana indriyas or organs > of > > > > > knowledge. The Vijnanamaya Kosha or intellectual > sheath > > > > > comprises the intellect and ego.These two koshas work > > > > > together. The Antahkarana or Inner Instrument is > comprised > > > of > > > > > the mind and subconscious of the Manomaya Kosha and > the > > > > > intellect and ego of the Vijnanamaya Kosha. > > > > > > > > > > The three koshas, Pranamaya, Manomaya and > > > Vignanamaya, > > > > > work together as together as the Sukshma Sharira and > > > > > comprise the 19 elements, viz., the five pranas and five > > > organs of > > > > > action from the Pranamaya Kosha, five organs of > knowledge > > > of > > > > > the Manomaya Kosha and the four elements of the > > > Antahkarana. > > > > > > > > > > The first 4 koshas, annamaya, pranamaya, manomaya > and > > > > > vignanamaya, all act within a differentiated world either > on > > > the > > > > > physical plane or on the astral plane. It is only when the > > > > > individual recognizes that individuality is a false prison > and > > > has > > > > > exhausted all karma that the Anandamaya Kosha or Bliss > > > > > Sheath dissolves and only Brahman remains. At this > stage, > > > the > > > > > individual has no reason to remain an individual unless > to > > > return > > > > > as an avatar for the benefit of the rest of us. > > > > > > > > > > So hum > > > > > > > > > > Omprem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > "malyavan_tibet" > > > > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > > > subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when > > > prana > > > > > leaves > > > > > > the body. Astral beings, ghosts, devas, and other > sentient > > > > > beings who > > > > > > never incarnate. > > > > > > > > > > > > The five sheaths are > > > > > > > > > > > > annamaya > > > > > > pranamaya > > > > > > > > > > > > manomaya > > > > > > vijnanamaya > > > > > > anandamaya > > > > > > > > > > > > The first two are there for embodied beings who identify > > > with > > > > > gender. > > > > > > > > > > > > Aum Namo bhagavati narayani! > > > > > > > > > > > > , "omprem" > > > > > <omprem> wrote: > > > > > > > " Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, > or > > > > > > > annamaya kosha. It is not there in the subtle body." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Au contraire. In the pranamaya kosha there are three > > > major > > > > > > > nadis and three major pranas. The Ida and Pingala > > > Nadis > > > > > form > > > > > > > a double helix spiraling up from the Muladhara > Chakra. > > > The > > > > > > > prana that flows through Pingala is called Ha or > Prana > > > Vayu. > > > > > > > This is considered by Yogis to be masculine. The > prana > > > that > > > > > > > flows through Ida is called Tha or Apana Vayu and is > > > > > considered > > > > > > > to be feminine. Usually these two pranas flow in > opposite > > > > > > > directions (sound familiar? we have seeing examples > of > > > that > > > > > all > > > > > > > day in this board.). However, the aim of Yoga and > indeed > > > of > > > > > all > > > > > > > spiritual practices is to reverse the directions of those > two > > > > > > > pranas so they now flow toward each other. The two > > > pranas > > > > > then > > > > > > > meet at the Muladhara Chakra and unite to form > > > Kundalini > > > > > which > > > > > > > moves inside the Sushumna Nadi upward through > the > > > other > > > > > 6 > > > > > > > major chakras, revealing increasingly subtle spiritual > > > > > > > awarenesses until Kundalin eventually arrives at the > > > > > Sahasrara > > > > > > > Chakra and the perceiver finally knows God/Goddess > > > fully > > > > > and > > > > > > > also knows himself/herself as God/Goddess. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So there is male and female in the subtle bodies. But > > > their > > > > > > > importance for spiritual development lies only in their > > > losing > > > > > their > > > > > > > antipathy to one another and uniting, losing their > > > individuality > > > > > > > through merger, in order to form a third entity > (Kundalini) > > > > > which > > > > > > > changes one's consciousness as it ascends through > the > > > > > next > > > > > > > six chakras. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OM Namah Sivaya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Omprem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > "malyavan_tibet" > > > > > > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > > > > > Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, > or > > > > > > > annamaya kosha. > > > > > > > > It is not there in the subtle body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > TerraSoLuna@a... > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > it isn't about bringing in male energy. > > > > > > > > > its *masculine* and *feminine* energy. > > > > > > > > > we all have both. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > male and female in ritual or relationship is only a > > > > > personal > > > > > > > preference, > > > > > > > > > doesn't mean much else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~shahara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > An all female coven bringing > > > > > > > > > > male energy in, either by inviting them into the > > > actual > > > > > coven > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > bringing it in by means of mating with one is > > > defeating > > > > > the > > > > > > > whole > > > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > > > for an all female anything. 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Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 "how can one chant a mantra without the sense of sound or visualize without the sense of vision." Mantras are chanted first aloud, then silently with the vocal chords working, then mentally without the vocal chords working and finally transcendentally in accordance to the degree to which the mind thins out. One can visualize intentionally or allow the vibrations of the mantra to form the image of the deity, again to the degree that the mind thins out and ego dissipates. Or, perhaps the diety will appear in response to the mind and ego thinning due to adoration of the diety or selfless sevice. But as long there is any content whatsoever to one's consciousness, one has still farther to go to toward Brahman. This is the difference between savikalpa or samprajnata samadhi (with form) and nirvikalpa samadhi (without form). Om and Prem , "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > The nadi dissolution is the victory over the elements, freedom from > the elements, separation of the elements. > > This is from shiva sutras. > > You can call it pratyahara, but in patanjalis yoga, after pratyahara > one does dharana, on a mantra or yantra, but how can one chant a > mantra without the sense of sound or visualize without the sense of > vision. Thats why i used the term folding the indriyas, so that sense > does not exist even in your thoughts and associations. > > When i get hold of an online version from Sivananda writings about his > interpretation of muladhara activation, i will let you know. Till then > you can take it as my interpretation. > > > , "omprem" <omprem> wrote: > > You are correct that 'prana' has both a generic and a specific > > meaning. 'Prana' can refer to any energetic movement in the > > energetic body but it also and confusingly can refer to the > > specific prana that flows through the pingala nadi and is > > associated with the anahata chakra. > > > > > > When you speak of 'dissolution of the air element', you are > > refering to pratyahara, withdrawing the mind and the senses > > from the external world and turning them inward. This is the > > pivotal stage of Raja Yoga. It is the last of the 5 stages of exterior > > methods concerning the body, mind and prana. The last 3 > > stages are the innner methods concerned with the development > > and transcendence of the mind. Each of them has many levels. > > Those last three stages are dharana or focusing on a single > > object; dhyana, deepening concentration or meditation; and > > samadhi or absorption in the Spirit or Brahman. > > > > I'm fairly familiar with Swami Sivananda's approach and have > > many of his books. Your statement about him doesn't quite ring > > true. Could you supply a reference for that? > > > > The only meaning that I can ascribe at the moment to your > > statement that Swami Sivananda said "one has risen above > > muladhara when he/she realizes that there's no real solid > > reality.", is that he might have been refering to the idea that the > > Muladhara Chakra does not open to the passage of Kundalini if > > its functioning is impaired with thoughts of insecurity. That > > insecurity will disappear when one realizes that our apparent > > reality is a mirage and has no impact on who we truely are and > > that the only reality is Brahman. But this idea is quite right either > > because there will be imbalances in the other chakras due to > > misconceptions about the phenomenal 'reality'. So, this > > statement could only mean that kundalini rises through all the > > chakras when our ignorance is dispelled. But this stage is the > > last, not the first step in the process of spiritual evolution. > > > > So, you can appreciate that you need to identify your source to > > clear up this contradiction and so that we can know whether this > > is indeed Swami Sivananda's view or only your interpretation of > > what he said. > > > > > > > > Om and Prem > > > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > Prana has a specific meaning but in literature it is used to > > describe > > > all the "Pranas". > > > > > > Dissolution of the air element. > > > Just like you close your eyes and can withdraw from the sense > > of > > > vision(although not completely), try doing the same thing with > > the > > > sense of touch. This is what i mean by dissolution of the air > > element. > > > > > > On the path to transcendence, senses can be a distraction. So > > mastery > > > over the corresponding sense and action in each chakra will > > make you > > > go up. Before you can meditate on the space principle, you > > have to be > > > able to fold the other four indiryas. This is what i meant by entry > > > into vishudha chakra. > > > > > > To quote some famous people along the samelines, if you > > read > > > Sivanandas literature, he says, one has risen above > > muladhara when > > > he/she realizes that there's no real solid reality. > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > , "omprem" > > <omprem> wrote: > > > > The subtle body, Sukshma Sharira, does not have gender as > > > > such. It has in the Pranamaya Kosha part of it, five major > > pranas. > > > > Two of these are the prana and apana to which you refer and > > it is > > > > these that are characterized as male (prana) and female > > > > (apana). But you cannot have one without the other and the > > other > > > > major and minor pranas as well. > > > > > > > > But the rest of the subtle body, especially the Manomaya > > Kosha > > > > does have conscious and subconscious thoughts of gender. > > > > And these thoughts will effect the next lives. > > > > > > > > It is said that the last thought one has at the moment of > > physical > > > > death is what one will reincarnate as. For example, if one > > has a > > > > strong hatred of those of the opposite gender at the moment > > of > > > > death, they will reincarnate as the object of that hatred. > > > > Something to think about for some of the members of this > > board. > > > > Similarly, of course, for those who have a strong attachment > > to > > > > those of the opposite gender. > > > > > > > > Prana is one of the 19 elements so one cannot control the > > > > elements through the dissolution of one of them (i.e. prana). > > > > Also, Prana's normal field of influence is the chest and the > > > > anahata chakra which does not seem to lead to a connection > > > > with the vishuddha chakra. > > > > > > > > > > > > Om and Prem > > > > > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > > > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > > If subtle body had gender, reicarnation would require > > another > > > > death. > > > > > As i understand, it does not have gender and can manifest > > as > > > > both male > > > > > and female. > > > > > > > > > > Control of elements, comes from dissolution of prana, > > entry > > > > into > > > > > visuddha chakra. This is what i understand of astral life. > > > > > If subtle body had apana, then it is still embodied. > > > > > > > > > > , "omprem" > > > > <omprem> wrote: > > > > > > "subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when > > > > prana > > > > > > leaves the body." > > > > > > > > > > > > Au contraire, mon ami. The subtle body also known as > > Linga > > > > > > Sharira or Sukshma Sharira comprises the Pranamaya > > > > Kosha, > > > > > > Manomaya Kosha and the Vijnanamaya Kosha. All of > > these > > > > three > > > > > > koshas known as the subtle body survive the death of the > > > > > > physical body as does the Karana Sharia or Anandamaya > > > > > > Kosha. > > > > > > > > > > > > The subtle body, i.e. the Pranamaya, Manamaya and > > > > > > Vijnanamaya Koshas collectively, carry the sense of > > > > individuation > > > > > > into the afterworlds and back into the next reincarnation > > and > > > > so > > > > > > on until the cycle ends. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Manomaya Kosha or mental sheath comprises only > > the > > > > > > mind, sub-conscious and the 5 jnana indriyas or organs > > of > > > > > > knowledge. The Vijnanamaya Kosha or intellectual > > sheath > > > > > > comprises the intellect and ego.These two koshas work > > > > > > together. The Antahkarana or Inner Instrument is > > comprised > > > > of > > > > > > the mind and subconscious of the Manomaya Kosha and > > the > > > > > > intellect and ego of the Vijnanamaya Kosha. > > > > > > > > > > > > The three koshas, Pranamaya, Manomaya and > > > > Vignanamaya, > > > > > > work together as together as the Sukshma Sharira and > > > > > > comprise the 19 elements, viz., the five pranas and five > > > > organs of > > > > > > action from the Pranamaya Kosha, five organs of > > knowledge > > > > of > > > > > > the Manomaya Kosha and the four elements of the > > > > Antahkarana. > > > > > > > > > > > > The first 4 koshas, annamaya, pranamaya, manomaya > > and > > > > > > vignanamaya, all act within a differentiated world either > > on > > > > the > > > > > > physical plane or on the astral plane. It is only when the > > > > > > individual recognizes that individuality is a false prison > > and > > > > has > > > > > > exhausted all karma that the Anandamaya Kosha or Bliss > > > > > > Sheath dissolves and only Brahman remains. At this > > stage, > > > > the > > > > > > individual has no reason to remain an individual unless > > to > > > > return > > > > > > as an avatar for the benefit of the rest of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > So hum > > > > > > > > > > > > Omprem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > "malyavan_tibet" > > > > > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > > > > subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when > > > > prana > > > > > > leaves > > > > > > > the body. Astral beings, ghosts, devas, and other > > sentient > > > > > > beings who > > > > > > > never incarnate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The five sheaths are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > annamaya > > > > > > > pranamaya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > manomaya > > > > > > > vijnanamaya > > > > > > > anandamaya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The first two are there for embodied beings who identify > > > > with > > > > > > gender. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aum Namo bhagavati narayani! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "omprem" > > > > > > <omprem> wrote: > > > > > > > > " Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, > > or > > > > > > > > annamaya kosha. It is not there in the subtle body." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Au contraire. In the pranamaya kosha there are three > > > > major > > > > > > > > nadis and three major pranas. The Ida and Pingala > > > > Nadis > > > > > > form > > > > > > > > a double helix spiraling up from the Muladhara > > Chakra. > > > > The > > > > > > > > prana that flows through Pingala is called Ha or > > Prana > > > > Vayu. > > > > > > > > This is considered by Yogis to be masculine. The > > prana > > > > that > > > > > > > > flows through Ida is called Tha or Apana Vayu and is > > > > > > considered > > > > > > > > to be feminine. Usually these two pranas flow in > > opposite > > > > > > > > directions (sound familiar? we have seeing examples > > of > > > > that > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > day in this board.). However, the aim of Yoga and > > indeed > > > > of > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > spiritual practices is to reverse the directions of those > > two > > > > > > > > pranas so they now flow toward each other. The two > > > > pranas > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > meet at the Muladhara Chakra and unite to form > > > > Kundalini > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > moves inside the Sushumna Nadi upward through > > the > > > > other > > > > > > 6 > > > > > > > > major chakras, revealing increasingly subtle spiritual > > > > > > > > awarenesses until Kundalin eventually arrives at the > > > > > > Sahasrara > > > > > > > > Chakra and the perceiver finally knows God/Goddess > > > > fully > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > also knows himself/herself as God/Goddess. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So there is male and female in the subtle bodies. But > > > > their > > > > > > > > importance for spiritual development lies only in their > > > > losing > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > antipathy to one another and uniting, losing their > > > > individuality > > > > > > > > through merger, in order to form a third entity > > (Kundalini) > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > changes one's consciousness as it ascends through > > the > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > six chakras. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OM Namah Sivaya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Omprem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > "malyavan_tibet" > > > > > > > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, > > or > > > > > > > > annamaya kosha. > > > > > > > > > It is not there in the subtle body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > TerraSoLuna@a... > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > it isn't about bringing in male energy. > > > > > > > > > > its *masculine* and *feminine* energy. > > > > > > > > > > we all have both. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > male and female in ritual or relationship is only a > > > > > > personal > > > > > > > > preference, > > > > > > > > > > doesn't mean much else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~shahara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > An all female coven bringing > > > > > > > > > > > male energy in, either by inviting them into the > > > > actual > > > > > > coven > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > bringing it in by means of mating with one is > > > > defeating > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > whole > > > > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > > > > for an all female anything. 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Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Greetings omprem, i have recently joined this group and have just been browsing through the varios mail i have been receiving from the moderator...well tthere is one reason that i have chosen to write to you directly....your views and knowledge is rather extensive and i would like to communicate you you more on a regular basis...i amm rather to on these subjects. Regards, cleveland omprem <omprem wrote: "how can one chant a mantra without the sense of sound or visualize without the sense of vision." Mantras are chanted first aloud, then silently with the vocal chords working, then mentally without the vocal chords working and finally transcendentally in accordance to the degree to which the mind thins out. One can visualize intentionally or allow the vibrations of the mantra to form the image of the deity, again to the degree that the mind thins out and ego dissipates. Or, perhaps the diety will appear in response to the mind and ego thinning due to adoration of the diety or selfless sevice. But as long there is any content whatsoever to one's consciousness, one has still farther to go to toward Brahman. This is the difference between savikalpa or samprajnata samadhi (with form) and nirvikalpa samadhi (without form). Om and Prem , "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > The nadi dissolution is the victory over the elements, freedom from > the elements, separation of the elements. > > This is from shiva sutras. > > You can call it pratyahara, but in patanjalis yoga, after pratyahara > one does dharana, on a mantra or yantra, but how can one chant a > mantra without the sense of sound or visualize without the sense of > vision. Thats why i used the term folding the indriyas, so that sense > does not exist even in your thoughts and associations. > > When i get hold of an online version from Sivananda writings about his > interpretation of muladhara activation, i will let you know. Till then > you can take it as my interpretation. > > > , "omprem" <omprem> wrote: > > You are correct that 'prana' has both a generic and a specific > > meaning. 'Prana' can refer to any energetic movement in the > > energetic body but it also and confusingly can refer to the > > specific prana that flows through the pingala nadi and is > > associated with the anahata chakra. > > > > > > When you speak of 'dissolution of the air element', you are > > refering to pratyahara, withdrawing the mind and the senses > > from the external world and turning them inward. This is the > > pivotal stage of Raja Yoga. It is the last of the 5 stages of exterior > > methods concerning the body, mind and prana. The last 3 > > stages are the innner methods concerned with the development > > and transcendence of the mind. Each of them has many levels. > > Those last three stages are dharana or focusing on a single > > object; dhyana, deepening concentration or meditation; and > > samadhi or absorption in the Spirit or Brahman. > > > > I'm fairly familiar with Swami Sivananda's approach and have > > many of his books. Your statement about him doesn't quite ring > > true. Could you supply a reference for that? > > > > The only meaning that I can ascribe at the moment to your > > statement that Swami Sivananda said "one has risen above > > muladhara when he/she realizes that there's no real solid > > reality.", is that he might have been refering to the idea that the > > Muladhara Chakra does not open to the passage of Kundalini if > > its functioning is impaired with thoughts of insecurity. That > > insecurity will disappear when one realizes that our apparent > > reality is a mirage and has no impact on who we truely are and > > that the only reality is Brahman. But this idea is quite right either > > because there will be imbalances in the other chakras due to > > misconceptions about the phenomenal 'reality'. So, this > > statement could only mean that kundalini rises through all the > > chakras when our ignorance is dispelled. But this stage is the > > last, not the first step in the process of spiritual evolution. > > > > So, you can appreciate that you need to identify your source to > > clear up this contradiction and so that we can know whether this > > is indeed Swami Sivananda's view or only your interpretation of > > what he said. > > > > > > > > Om and Prem > > > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > Prana has a specific meaning but in literature it is used to > > describe > > > all the "Pranas". > > > > > > Dissolution of the air element. > > > Just like you close your eyes and can withdraw from the sense > > of > > > vision(although not completely), try doing the same thing with > > the > > > sense of touch. This is what i mean by dissolution of the air > > element. > > > > > > On the path to transcendence, senses can be a distraction. So > > mastery > > > over the corresponding sense and action in each chakra will > > make you > > > go up. Before you can meditate on the space principle, you > > have to be > > > able to fold the other four indiryas. This is what i meant by entry > > > into vishudha chakra. > > > > > > To quote some famous people along the samelines, if you > > read > > > Sivanandas literature, he says, one has risen above > > muladhara when > > > he/she realizes that there's no real solid reality. > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > , "omprem" > > <omprem> wrote: > > > > The subtle body, Sukshma Sharira, does not have gender as > > > > such. It has in the Pranamaya Kosha part of it, five major > > pranas. > > > > Two of these are the prana and apana to which you refer and > > it is > > > > these that are characterized as male (prana) and female > > > > (apana). But you cannot have one without the other and the > > other > > > > major and minor pranas as well. > > > > > > > > But the rest of the subtle body, especially the Manomaya > > Kosha > > > > does have conscious and subconscious thoughts of gender. > > > > And these thoughts will effect the next lives. > > > > > > > > It is said that the last thought one has at the moment of > > physical > > > > death is what one will reincarnate as. For example, if one > > has a > > > > strong hatred of those of the opposite gender at the moment > > of > > > > death, they will reincarnate as the object of that hatred. > > > > Something to think about for some of the members of this > > board. > > > > Similarly, of course, for those who have a strong attachment > > to > > > > those of the opposite gender. > > > > > > > > Prana is one of the 19 elements so one cannot control the > > > > elements through the dissolution of one of them (i.e. prana). > > > > Also, Prana's normal field of influence is the chest and the > > > > anahata chakra which does not seem to lead to a connection > > > > with the vishuddha chakra. > > > > > > > > > > > > Om and Prem > > > > > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > > > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > > If subtle body had gender, reicarnation would require > > another > > > > death. > > > > > As i understand, it does not have gender and can manifest > > as > > > > both male > > > > > and female. > > > > > > > > > > Control of elements, comes from dissolution of prana, > > entry > > > > into > > > > > visuddha chakra. This is what i understand of astral life. > > > > > If subtle body had apana, then it is still embodied. > > > > > > > > > > , "omprem" > > > > <omprem> wrote: > > > > > > "subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when > > > > prana > > > > > > leaves the body." > > > > > > > > > > > > Au contraire, mon ami. The subtle body also known as > > Linga > > > > > > Sharira or Sukshma Sharira comprises the Pranamaya > > > > Kosha, > > > > > > Manomaya Kosha and the Vijnanamaya Kosha. All of > > these > > > > three > > > > > > koshas known as the subtle body survive the death of the > > > > > > physical body as does the Karana Sharia or Anandamaya > > > > > > Kosha. > > > > > > > > > > > > The subtle body, i.e. the Pranamaya, Manamaya and > > > > > > Vijnanamaya Koshas collectively, carry the sense of > > > > individuation > > > > > > into the afterworlds and back into the next reincarnation > > and > > > > so > > > > > > on until the cycle ends. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Manomaya Kosha or mental sheath comprises only > > the > > > > > > mind, sub-conscious and the 5 jnana indriyas or organs > > of > > > > > > knowledge. The Vijnanamaya Kosha or intellectual > > sheath > > > > > > comprises the intellect and ego.These two koshas work > > > > > > together. The Antahkarana or Inner Instrument is > > comprised > > > > of > > > > > > the mind and subconscious of the Manomaya Kosha and > > the > > > > > > intellect and ego of the Vijnanamaya Kosha. > > > > > > > > > > > > The three koshas, Pranamaya, Manomaya and > > > > Vignanamaya, > > > > > > work together as together as the Sukshma Sharira and > > > > > > comprise the 19 elements, viz., the five pranas and five > > > > organs of > > > > > > action from the Pranamaya Kosha, five organs of > > knowledge > > > > of > > > > > > the Manomaya Kosha and the four elements of the > > > > Antahkarana. > > > > > > > > > > > > The first 4 koshas, annamaya, pranamaya, manomaya > > and > > > > > > vignanamaya, all act within a differentiated world either > > on > > > > the > > > > > > physical plane or on the astral plane. It is only when the > > > > > > individual recognizes that individuality is a false prison > > and > > > > has > > > > > > exhausted all karma that the Anandamaya Kosha or Bliss > > > > > > Sheath dissolves and only Brahman remains. At this > > stage, > > > > the > > > > > > individual has no reason to remain an individual unless > > to > > > > return > > > > > > as an avatar for the benefit of the rest of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > So hum > > > > > > > > > > > > Omprem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > "malyavan_tibet" > > > > > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > > > > subtle body is manomaya, this is what will be left when > > > > prana > > > > > > leaves > > > > > > > the body. Astral beings, ghosts, devas, and other > > sentient > > > > > > beings who > > > > > > > never incarnate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The five sheaths are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > annamaya > > > > > > > pranamaya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > manomaya > > > > > > > vijnanamaya > > > > > > > anandamaya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The first two are there for embodied beings who identify > > > > with > > > > > > gender. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aum Namo bhagavati narayani! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "omprem" > > > > > > <omprem> wrote: > > > > > > > > " Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, > > or > > > > > > > > annamaya kosha. It is not there in the subtle body." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Au contraire. In the pranamaya kosha there are three > > > > major > > > > > > > > nadis and three major pranas. The Ida and Pingala > > > > Nadis > > > > > > form > > > > > > > > a double helix spiraling up from the Muladhara > > Chakra. > > > > The > > > > > > > > prana that flows through Pingala is called Ha or > > Prana > > > > Vayu. > > > > > > > > This is considered by Yogis to be masculine. The > > prana > > > > that > > > > > > > > flows through Ida is called Tha or Apana Vayu and is > > > > > > considered > > > > > > > > to be feminine. Usually these two pranas flow in > > opposite > > > > > > > > directions (sound familiar? we have seeing examples > > of > > > > that > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > day in this board.). However, the aim of Yoga and > > indeed > > > > of > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > spiritual practices is to reverse the directions of those > > two > > > > > > > > pranas so they now flow toward each other. The two > > > > pranas > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > meet at the Muladhara Chakra and unite to form > > > > Kundalini > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > moves inside the Sushumna Nadi upward through > > the > > > > other > > > > > > 6 > > > > > > > > major chakras, revealing increasingly subtle spiritual > > > > > > > > awarenesses until Kundalin eventually arrives at the > > > > > > Sahasrara > > > > > > > > Chakra and the perceiver finally knows God/Goddess > > > > fully > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > also knows himself/herself as God/Goddess. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So there is male and female in the subtle bodies. But > > > > their > > > > > > > > importance for spiritual development lies only in their > > > > losing > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > antipathy to one another and uniting, losing their > > > > individuality > > > > > > > > through merger, in order to form a third entity > > (Kundalini) > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > changes one's consciousness as it ascends through > > the > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > six chakras. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OM Namah Sivaya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Omprem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > "malyavan_tibet" > > > > > > > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Masculine and feminine ends in the physical body, > > or > > > > > > > > annamaya kosha. > > > > > > > > > It is not there in the subtle body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > TerraSoLuna@a... > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > it isn't about bringing in male energy. > > > > > > > > > > its *masculine* and *feminine* energy. > > > > > > > > > > we all have both. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > male and female in ritual or relationship is only a > > > > > > personal > > > > > > > > preference, > > > > > > > > > > doesn't mean much else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~shahara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > An all female coven bringing > > > > > > > > > > > male energy in, either by inviting them into the > > > > actual > > > > > > coven > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > bringing it in by means of mating with one is > > > > defeating > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > whole > > > > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > > > > for an all female anything. / New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! 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