Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 hi from nefertem i have been a goddess devotee for about 20 years now and we must all remember that we are all her children. as Ramakrishna did we must all sit at the feet of devine mother and remember nothing else. and find our true selfs. sa sekhem sahu nefertem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 "as Ramakrishna did we must all sit at the feet of devine mother and remember nothing else." Agree with that. Remembering nothing else means moving beyond gender wars, beyond seeing ourselves as victims or surviviors, beyond hatred or fear, beyond ego and oppression, and beyond all names and forms. Om and Prem , "nefertem65" <nefertem@r...> wrote: > hi from nefertem i have been a goddess devotee for about 20 years now > and we must all remember that we are all her children. as Ramakrishna > did we must all sit at the feet of devine mother and remember nothing > else. and find our true selfs. sa sekhem sahu nefertem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Remember that Ramakrishna was both a tantric adept, and had taken vows of <brahmacharya> (celibacy). He was so identified with the Goddess, he often would dress in a saree and act out the pastimes of Sita and Radha -- how many Western men are willing to give up their male privileges and live as women? -- Len/ Kalipadma On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 01:10:39 -0000 "omprem" <omprem writes: > "as Ramakrishna did we must all sit at the feet of devine mother > and remember nothing else." > > > Agree with that. Remembering nothing else means moving > beyond gender wars, beyond seeing ourselves as victims or > surviviors, beyond hatred or fear, beyond ego and oppression, > and beyond all names and forms. > > Om and Prem > > > , "nefertem65" > <nefertem@r...> wrote: > > hi from nefertem i have been a goddess devotee for about 20 > years now > > and we must all remember that we are all her children. as > Ramakrishna > > did we must all sit at the feet of devine mother and remember > nothing > > else. and find our true selfs. sa sekhem sahu nefertem > ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 ramakrishna also had a wife, sarada devi. I dont know, probably they had children too. , "Ellen McGowen" <ellen.mcgowen@w...> wrote: > Ramakrisha sounds like a number of people I know... including me. I would > be curious to know how > Ramakrishna self referred with gendered terms such as pronouns. > > Assuming the "how many" question was not purely rhetorical, the best answer > available can be found at > > http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TSprevalence.html > > Not that any of these people would appreciate being called Western "men". > > Namaste, > Ellen > > - > kalipadma@j... > > Wednesday, September 29, 2004 12:05 AM > Re: Re: recent post about females and male > devotees > > > > Remember that Ramakrishna was both a tantric adept, and had taken vows of > <brahmacharya> (celibacy). > > He was so identified with the Goddess, he often would dress in a saree > and act out the pastimes of Sita and Radha -- how many Western men are > willing to give up their male privileges and live as women? > > -- Len/ Kalipadma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 No No No!!!! Ramakrishna did not even have sex with his wife, he'd rather give her puja then do that! Arranged marriages were much more common then and it was basically obligatory. a message dated 9/29/2004 10:13:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, malyavan_tibet writes: ramakrishna also had a wife, sarada devi. I dont know, probably they had children too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 No children. Ramakrishna had already taken his vow of celebacy. They never consummated their marriage. Of spiritual children, they had many. -- Len/ Kalipadma On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 02:10:37 -0000 "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet writes: > > ramakrishna also had a wife, sarada devi. I dont know, probably they > had children too. > > > > , "Ellen McGowen" > <ellen.mcgowen@w...> wrote: > > Ramakrisha sounds like a number of people I know... including me. > I > would > > be curious to know how > > Ramakrishna self referred with gendered terms such as pronouns. > > > > Assuming the "how many" question was not purely rhetorical, the > best answer > > available can be found at > > > > http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TSprevalence.html > > > > Not that any of these people would appreciate being called Western > "men". > > > > Namaste, > > Ellen > > > > - > > kalipadma@j... > > > > Wednesday, September 29, 2004 12:05 AM > > Re: Re: recent post about females and > male > > devotees > > > > > > > > Remember that Ramakrishna was both a tantric adept, and had taken > vows of > > <brahmacharya> (celibacy). > > > > He was so identified with the Goddess, he often would dress in a > saree > > and act out the pastimes of Sita and Radha -- how many Western men > are > > willing to give up their male privileges and live as women? > > > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > $9.95 domain names from . Register anything. > http://us.click./J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM > --~-> > > > > Links > > > > > > > > ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 --- malyavan_tibet asked: >>Was someone monitoring their private lives?<< Pretty much. If you read the Gospel of Ramakrishna it gives a pretty personal view of the man. He claims to have never touched her sexually and practiced celibacy as a spiritual discipline while also actively encouraging it among his followers. Every book I have ever read on him attests to it and I think there is little reason for doubt if you know about him. Many things with Ramakrishna are quite out of the ordinary especially by western standards. Many unmarried ascetics in India abstain from sex, so there is little reason to doubt he was lying simply because he was married. If he says he didn't, his wife also and everyone who knew him I would say it's pretty safe to assume they never had sex. He's basically considered a modern saint and even more so a divine avatar. There is a huge temple dedicated to him at Belur Math right across the Ganga from Dakshinishwar Kali temple. I have been to both and they are quite impressive. He is very revered throughout Bengal and even around the globe. Personally, I like some of his ideas, but in my life celibacy has no place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Was someone monitoring their private lives? -- In , swastik108@a... wrote: > No No No!!!! > > > Ramakrishna did not even have sex with his wife, he'd rather give her puja > then do that! Arranged marriages were much more common then and it was basically > obligatory. > > a message dated 9/29/2004 10:13:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > malyavan_tibet writes: > > ramakrishna also had a wife, sarada devi. I dont know, probably they > had children too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 I quote from "Kali the Mother" by Sister Nivedita, how Ramakrishna referred to himself: "He never used, it is said, the expression "I" and "mine", preferring "he who dwells here" (indicating His own heart), or usually, "My Holy Mother". The dressing up as a woman period in the life of Ramakrishna was in the nature of a spiritual quest and not to be construed as a constant in his life. There is a great difference between simple base deviant behaviour patterns for the purpose of satisfying bodily urges and nothing beyond this, and the intentional assuming of a particular behaviour pattern in order to pursue spiritual attainment. Intention here counts for a very great deal! I have long been of the opinion that if transvestites and the transgendered started using their "tendencies" in this way, and looked to either Krishna or Shiva Ardhanarishwara to guide them, they would have the opportunity for tremendous spiritual insights! Jai Gurudevaiye! Lilith M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 No, they did not even have sex! Although Ramakrishna DID perform an exceedingly unorthodox ritual of Goddess worship using Sarada Devi as the focus. I have an account of the ritual around somewhere, and it is also described in the book "Kali" by Elizabeth U. Harding. Lilith M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 The spiritual realm is transcending gender. It's the quality of activation of the higher chakras. Transcending gender in the physical body is either due to over identification with the object of desire OR a tamasic nature because of which the embodied being is not able to forget the previous incarnation from the depth of consciousness. This is again because of over identification with the body and base desires. There are many temples in india, where some form of spiritual dressing up as the feminine is done by male priests as an act showing laying down of the ego. It is done both for the worship of shiva and shakti and not just shakti. So yes, they are very different and not to be confused with one another. I dont know why you mention Krishna, except for the fact krishna is the manifestation of vishnu, the diety of swadisthana(water chakra), i dont see him taking on a feminine form. Vishnu is considered neuter, and the famous story of him being mohini and resulting union with shiva and origin of Sasta(Ayyappa, also saturn). , Lili Masamura <sephirah5> wrote: > I quote from "Kali the Mother" by Sister Nivedita, how > Ramakrishna referred to himself: "He never used, it is said, the expression "I" and "mine", preferring "he who dwells here" (indicating > His own heart), or usually, "My Holy Mother". The dressing up as a woman period in the life of Ramakrishna was in the nature of a spiritual quest and > not to be construed as a constant in his life. There is a great difference between simple base deviant behaviour patterns for the purpose of satisfying > bodily urges and nothing beyond this, and the intentional assuming of a particular behaviour pattern in order to pursue spiritual attainment. Intention > here counts for a very great deal! I have long been of the opinion that if transvestites and the transgendered started using their "tendencies" in this > way, and looked to either Krishna or Shiva Ardhanarishwara to guide them, they would have the opportunity for tremendous spiritual insights! > > Jai Gurudevaiye! > > Lilith M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 So in shakti or in shiva worship, gender is considered base? You mention male priests dressing up as the feminine to "lay...down the ego". Is it considered the same for female priestesses who dress as male (a laying down of ego)? In another post you made some ... interesting comments regarding how Dianics procreate, what they might do with male babies, and where they would get the sperm. I am a Dianic witch. When I want sperm or to procreate, my husband and I manage this in a traditional manner. I would raise any sons I might have with love for who they were, just as I love my husband for who he is, and love my father and brothers and nephews for who they are. It saddens me greatly this even has to be said here. Can we get back, as kalipadma has asked, as others have asked, to "the longstanding, HISTORICAL, Goddess-worshipping traditions of India"? , "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > The spiritual realm is transcending gender. It's the quality of > activation of the higher chakras. > > Transcending gender in the physical body is either due to over > identification with the object of desire OR a tamasic nature because > of which the embodied being is not able to forget the previous > incarnation from the depth of consciousness. This is again because of > over identification with the body and base desires. > > There are many temples in india, where some form of spiritual dressing > up as the feminine is done by male priests as an act showing laying > down of the ego. It is done both for the worship of shiva and shakti > and not just shakti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 The reason I mentioned Krishna is that there is a sect of men in India who dress up in saris and direct their worship towards Krishna in this fashion, as either Radha or as a Gopi. There is also worship of Rama done the same way, with men impersonating Sita, as well. If you check in the book "Sadhus" by Dolf Hartsuiker, there are photographs of such devotees. Unorthodox, perhaps, but performed with sincerity, I could see such worship getting excellent results, as one is relinquishing convention and dignity in the eyes of the external world for the sake of attainment to God. Lilith M. --- malyavan_tibet <malyavan_tibet wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Thank you seed_crystal, going back to basics is what we need. seed_crystal <seed_crystal wrote:So in shakti or in shiva worship, gender is considered base? You mention male priests dressing up as the feminine to "lay...down the ego". Is it considered the same for female priestesses who dress as male (a laying down of ego)? In another post you made some ... interesting comments regarding how Dianics procreate, what they might do with male babies, and where they would get the sperm. I am a Dianic witch. When I want sperm or to procreate, my husband and I manage this in a traditional manner. I would raise any sons I might have with love for who they were, just as I love my husband for who he is, and love my father and brothers and nephews for who they are. It saddens me greatly this even has to be said here. Can we get back, as kalipadma has asked, as others have asked, to "the longstanding, HISTORICAL, Goddess-worshipping traditions of India"? , "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > The spiritual realm is transcending gender. It's the quality of > activation of the higher chakras. > > Transcending gender in the physical body is either due to over > identification with the object of desire OR a tamasic nature because > of which the embodied being is not able to forget the previous > incarnation from the depth of consciousness. This is again because of > over identification with the body and base desires. > > There are many temples in india, where some form of spiritual dressing > up as the feminine is done by male priests as an act showing laying > down of the ego. It is done both for the worship of shiva and shakti > and not just shakti. / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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