Guest guest Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 Well, Ramakrishna does not seem to have been oblivious of his own attainment, so you can spare me (and everyone else, by extension) the quasi-profound cliches...Attainment is available to all who are sincerely desirous of attaining God, so this statement of mine is neither a brag or a boast, it is a simple fact. The Bhagavad-Gita says everything about attainment that need be said... I tried the method and it works. The trouble is for most, is that sincere desire to reach God is almost nonexistent, which is the nature of the Kali Yuga. Therefore, those of us that do have a sincere desire for God, attain rapidly! Those who have a sincere desire to attain by means of obsolete and obscure methodologies will attain also (Eventually!). The direct method of offering one's self up unconditionally to the Divine is certainly not for everyone, but it worked for me. Lilith M. --- sandeep <sandeepc wrote: > > <SNIP> I know; this is how I attained. <SNIP> > > If you know you have attained, ..........no > attaining as yet has taken place. > > ***** > > > It > > > is only the deluded and insincere who fall from > the Path with Left-Hand methods. > > > Lilith M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 All things in good time. It does take a bit of practice to get used to the vocabulary and, more importantly, to the concepts behind the words, but the effort is worth it. It may seem as if we disagree with one another and debate over whose path is better, but we know that each path has its own merits and is intended for people of a specific personality and karmic load. Paths are many but Truth is One. Om and Prem , SophiasHeaven@a... wrote: > Thanks Om and Prem, for your reply. > There's so much to keep track of. I feel as tho my head is amid a cloud > of Hummingbirds in flight, as you all navigate with great ease agility and > swiftness these complex and intricate questions, as if they were great bushes of > Flower.. > I know there was another this morning, about this topic, in addition > to Devi's. And several replies to the question of the 5-M's. Each one ads a > little to the picture. So much to consider ! :-) > > Blessings, > Cathie > In a message dated 10/4/2004 12:26:42 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > omprem writes: > > > Tamas, Rajas and Sattva are known as the three gunas. They > > are qualities of the phenomenal world and have been compared > > to the three strands of the rope that binds us to the illusory world. > > These gunas are present in varying degrees in everyone and > > everything and they continually change their quantity. > > Sometimes you are tired or resistant to change or overcome with > > fear, and are thus Tamasic. Other times you are charge > > fearlessly ahead and accomplish much in the world and are > > thus Rajasic. Other times, you are filled with a sense of purity, > > devotion and wisdom and are thus Sattvic. The couch potato is > > tamasic, the type A person is rajasic, the saint is sattvic: but not > > all the time. > > > > As long as we have attachment to the things and events of this > > world we under the thrall of the gunas. Sattva binds us with an > > attachment to happiness, Rajas binds us with an attachment to > > activity and Tamas binds us with an attachment to delusion. > > Tamas wants to destroy us, Rajas wants to bind us to the world > > through busyness and rob us of our spiritual treasures, and > > Sattva sets us on the path to spiritual freedom but also binds us > > to the resulting happiness. Tamas can be overcome by Rajas, > > Rajas can be overcome by Sattva, and Sattva can be overcome > > by overcoming the ego. > > > > Only God or Brahman stands outside of these three gunas. > > > > OM and Prem > > > > > > , > > SophiasHeaven@a... wrote: > > >In a message dated 10/3/2004 8:20:38 AM Mountain Daylight > > Time, > > >omprem writes: > > > > > >>"The left hand path is the path of seeing the divine in tamas. " > > >> > > >>Now we seem to getting closer to the answer to my question. > > >>This quote seems to be saying that the left hand path is > > intended > > >>for those of a tamasic nature with the intention of bringing > > them > > >>to a realization of their true divinity using methods to which > > they > > >>can relate. > > >> > > >>Om and Prem > > > > > >I hate to be asking another question that everyone else knows > > the answer to > > >but me, but what is Tamas? Is Tamas the "worldly nature"? > > > > > >Blessings, > > >Cathie > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 , Lili Masamura <sephirah5> wrote: > > Well, Ramakrishna does not seem to have been oblivious > of his own attainment, so you can spare me (and > everyone else, by extension) the quasi-profound > cliches.. LOL. > > > > If you know you have attained, ..........no > > attaining as yet has taken place. > > Attainment is available to all who are > sincerely desirous of attaining God, so this statement > of mine is neither a brag or a boast, it is a simple > fact. The Bhagavad-Gita says everything about > attainment that need be said... I tried the method and > it works. What is the method you are referring to? There are at least half a dozen methods described in the Gita. Sincerely, -yogaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 I am not a 'left hand' practitioner, have never claimed to be one, and have stated that I do not consider it to be a valid practice FOR ME. Nor did I say that 'handling shit was a repulsive spiritual practice'. What I did do was to wonder about the state of consciousness of one who would perform the activities that you described, specifically which guna predominated to force such actions. Before you let your anger overwhelm you again, you should at least make sure of what you are angry at. Then, you should use your spiritual practices to enquire whether it is useful to be angry at all. Your post is an excellent example of how we misconstrue reality and then allow our emotions to engage the false reality we create. OM and Prem , Lili Masamura <sephirah5> wrote: > > Actually, Ramakrishna Paramahansa is one of the > best-documented Masters we have available to us, and > as an avatar of Kali Ma, he certainly bears close > study by those who are genuinely desirous of > attainment to the Goddess, rather than those who > prefer to simply sling around high-falutin' Sanskrit > terms and methodologies whose validity they have no > real means of judging, except as it appeals to their > limited sensibilities of "good" and "bad". I have no > idea why he chose that particular sadhana; I assume he > did what he sensed was necessary and also expedient in > order to purify his awareness in preparation for the > descent of the Goddess. It also must be noted that all > these weird and discomfiting practices were a PHASE in > his spiritual journey..once the purpose of these > practices had been accomplished, they were left > behind. He also did NOT recommend them to anyone else; > everyone must find the Path in their own way, and this > way was HIS way! If you thought that handling shit was > a repulsive spiritual practice, you may as well know > that at one point, while he was still seeking, in > order to obliterate his pride in being a Brahmin, > seeing it as an obstacle to true attainment, he also > cleaned the latrine of his gardener with his long > hair. > One thing that stands out however, is that he had an > unimpeachable reputation for telling the truth. It is > said that he gave up everything to the Divine Mother, > but Truth he refused to relinquish. The fact that you > claim to be a "Left-Hand" practitioner and yet fail > completely to grasp the essential premise behind these > spiritually valid practices by an unquestioned Master > suggests you have a LONG WAY to go yet. Ramakrishna > Paramahansa attained to the Mother. Only one who has > attained may truly speak about attainment, and > Ramakrishna unquestionably attained. Nothing more need > be said. > Lilith M. > > --- omprem <omprem> wrote: > > > > > Who knows if the stories attributed to supposedly > > highly-evolved > > spiritual leaders are real or apocryphal. > > > > Your story of Ramakrishna seems a bit too over the > > top to be > > believed. Why would he find it necessary to sit by > > the Ganges > > with a handful of shit and the other hand full of > > money and find it > > necessary to ponder the relative worth of both? Was > > his intellect > > so dense that he could only use this graphic means > > to arrive at > > the conclusion that neither was more or less > > important or > > desirable than the other and that in the end neither > > was of any > > consequence? This story makes no sense unless one > > assumes that he was either very tamasic or very > > rajasic and > > needed such a dramatic gesture to capture his > > attention and > > intellect. You would probably not want to accept > > that he was > > anything less than sattvic. Even if it is claimed > > that he was just > > demonstrating what he already knew, one can suggest > > that to do > > so involves an ego that still has yet to be fully > > under control. > > > > > _______________________________ > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 " The Bhagavad-Gita says everything about attainment that need be said... I tried the method and it works." I hope that you are not telling us that you have attained spiritual enlightenment, because you most assuredly have not. Your lack of control of your emotions, your fear and judgement, your inability to be detached and discriminate are the most obvious signs that you still have some way to go. Enjoy your journey. We are all pilgrims on the road. Om and Prem , Lili Masamura <sephirah5> wrote: > > Well, Ramakrishna does not seem to have been oblivious > of his own attainment, so you can spare me (and > everyone else, by extension) the quasi-profound > cliches...Attainment is available to all who are > sincerely desirous of attaining God, so this statement > of mine is neither a brag or a boast, it is a simple > fact. The trouble is for most, is that sincere > desire to reach God is almost nonexistent, which is > the nature of the Kali Yuga. Therefore, those of us > that do have a sincere desire for God, attain rapidly! > Those who have a sincere desire to attain by means of > obsolete and obscure methodologies will attain also > (Eventually!). The direct method of offering one's > self up unconditionally to the Divine is certainly not > for everyone, but it worked for me. > Lilith M. > --- sandeep <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > > > > > <SNIP> I know; this is how I attained. <SNIP> > > > > If you know you have attained, ..........no > > attaining as yet has taken place. > > > > ***** > > > > > It > > > > is only the deluded and insincere who fall from > > the Path with Left-Hand methods. > > > > Lilith M. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 --- sephirah5> wrote: > > > > Well, Ramakrishna does not seem to have been oblivious > > of his own attainment, so you can spare me (and > > everyone else, by extension) the quasi-profound > > cliches... :-) Safety in numbers, eh? Whether Ramakrishna or X,Y, Z...........attainment is not the knowledge of attainment. Nor an experience. >Attainment is available to all who are > > sincerely desirous of attaining God, so this statement > > of mine is neither a brag or a boast, it is a simple > > fact. If it was simply that, ..........there would have been no need to defend it.:-) For an attained being (really an oxymoron ) , .......is there an "other",...........from whom,......... a validation, acknowledgement or recognition can be sought? Is there an "other", such that there can ever be a need to defend anything? >> The trouble is for most, is that sincere > > desire to reach God is almost nonexistent, which is > > the nature of the Kali Yuga. Is there still an "other" for you, whether having sincere desires or not? >> Therefore, those of us > > that do have a sincere desire for God, attain rapidly! > > Those who have a sincere desire to attain by means of > > obsolete and obscure methodologies will attain also > > (Eventually!). The direct method of offering one's > > self up unconditionally to the Divine is certainly not > > for everyone, but it worked for me. Do you have a self,..........to offer? ....whether the offer is conditional or unconditional is quite secondary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 --- omprem <omprem wrote: > > I am not a 'left hand' practitioner, have never > claimed to be one, > and have stated that I do not consider it to be a > valid practice > FOR ME. #################################################### Ah, I misunderstood you, now that I looked back at your letter, you said you were "left-handed" and I construed this to mean that you were a "Left-Hand" practitioner. Sorry, my mistake! BTW, I have never advocated Left-Hand practices for anyone except to those who are VERY VERY serious about attaining. Dilettantes need not apply! ################################################### > Nor did I say that 'handling shit was a repulsive > spiritual > practice'. What I did do was to wonder about the > state of > consciousness of one who would perform the > activities that you > described, specifically which guna predominated to > force such > actions. ################################################### As you have clearly misunderstood, I will explain again: Sadhana like this forces the practitioner to confront his prejudices and mental conditionings directly and by doing so, eventually go beyond them, seeing them for what they are. One can theorize all day long about such things, but going out and actually sitting on a corpse, picking up a handful of shit, or eating a piece of human flesh will give you a practical and unmistakable demonstration of how far you have actually come in your practice to equilibriating your mind and contemplating ALL aspects of Reality with an equal eye, not just the parts that appeal to our sensibilities! Then one has truly attained to Sat (truth) and become ready to go beyond even that. ################################################### > > Before you let your anger overwhelm you again, you > should at > least make sure of what you are angry at. Then, you > should use > your spiritual practices to enquire whether it is > useful to be angry > at all. ################################################## Angry? Whatever gave you the impression I was angry? ################################################ > > Your post is an excellent example of how we > misconstrue reality > and then allow our emotions to engage the false > reality we > create. ################################################### One could say precisely the same thing about your post, unfortunately. I was not angry in the least when I replied, but you saw it as such, which is a definite example of "misconstrued reality" (with a dose of ego on the side). You clearly know nothing at all about Ramakrishna or his legacy, yet you presume to pass judgement on his methods. Would it help if I told you he was Swami Vivekananda's guru, or does that name mean nothing to you as well? The only reality I have misconstrued is that you were a "left-hand" practitioner, that was all, and for that I have already apologized. In fact I am also a serious devotee of the Shiva Lingam, and can claim to know something about Shaivite methods of worship..some of them are just as extreme as anything I have described up till now! Lilith M. _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 True, we are all pilgrims on the road, but, we are all at different places on it."Every man and every woman is a star" too, but stars are of varying magnitudes. I can tell you, though, that "enlightenment" is an ongoing process, there is no endpoint, though there ARE definite stages that one arrives at. Well, actually, I had no idea about the enlightenment thing until some books crossed my path on people who had actually undergone the process, such as Ramakrishna, Radha Sivananda, Gyanamata, etc., and immediately recognized that I had undergone exactly the same processes that all these people had, so yes, I AM, in fact telling you just that... If I can do it, then anyone can do it, you just have to want it more than anything else in the world!. It would be selfish of me to hide my methodology if there are people out there who can benefit from it, and those people are welcome to contact me privately at my e-addy if they want. And it won't cost any money, either! There are so many people out there pretending to be enlightened and cheating people in the process, so why not someone who is NOT pretending, and doesn't cheat, for a change? And lastly, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. As the Freemasons say, "Test me, try me." Lilith M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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