the Divine Source [was: Repulsive!]

[Guest guest]

Dear Max:

 

On the topic of the members who were scandalized by the idea of an

immodestly clothed Devi, you noted:

 

*** Tell that to the temple-builders of classic Hindu architecture.

It seems that much has changed in the past eight centuries or so. ***

 

Too right. Kochu made a similar observation earlier yesterday. I

think it's a manifestation of the same fundamentalist tendencies

we're seeing in all of the world's major religions these days. Like

the fundie Christians or Muslims, certain stripes of militant

Hinduism strive to recover a sort of oddly post-modern conception

of "purity" rooted in some vague point in the "past" -- and

revealing, more than anything, the militants' own psychological

hangups (as well as their utter misunderstanding of both the letter

and spirit of the actual past).

 

*** I ended up omitting many classic Devi murthis from the

presentation, as well as many beautiful Goddess icons from other

places. ***

 

That's the tragedy of these retrograde ideologies. Their first

victims tend to be two of the most vulnerable: Truth and Beauty.

 

*** Ironically, even under the name of Lajja Gauri Indian sculptors

carved her displaying the power of the Yoni. This is something

majestic and awe-inspiring. ***

 

Actually, there is a page decicated to Her on our website. Would love

to get your input if you know of additional information or images

that should be added to the section. Here's the link:

 

http://shaktisadhana.50megs.com/DEVI/lajjahGauri.html

 

Thanks again for your contributions ...

 

DB

[Guest guest]

my reply is further down a little bit:

 

In a message dated 10/3/2004 9:47:55 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

devi_bhakta writes:

> Dear Max:

>

> On the topic of the members who were scandalized by the idea of an

> immodestly clothed Devi, you noted:

>

> *** Tell that to the temple-builders of classic Hindu architecture.

> It seems that much has changed in the past eight centuries or so. ***

>

> Too right. Kochu made a similar observation earlier yesterday. I

> think it's a manifestation of the same fundamentalist tendencies

> we're seeing in all of the world's major religions these days. Like

> the fundie Christians or Muslims, certain stripes of militant

> Hinduism strive to recover a sort of oddly post-modern conception

> of "purity" rooted in some vague point in the "past" -- and

> revealing, more than anything, the militants' own psychological

> hangups (as well as their utter misunderstanding of both the letter

> and spirit of the actual past).

>

 

First I would like to say that I do not find the group picture repulsive. I

was looking in Mary Daly's book "Beyond God the Father" for a quote, something

to the affect of: "It is not a woman's exposed pubic hair that is obscene.

Obscene is a military general with all his medals displayed (i.e. for

killing).... but, I have not been able to find that quote and instead I found

some

ideas I would like to share in the context of the group picture:

First, Mary Daly, a noted feminist theologian, quotes Berdyaev on the

distinction between the Virgin Mary and the pagan Goddess:

"The cult of the Mother of God, of the Most Holy Virgin, is

essentially distinct from the pagan worship of the female principle; it is

worship of

the womanhood which is entirely illumined and serene, which has achieved victory

over the base element in femaleness."Berdyaev.

Then she goes on to talk about how insidious this "universal and

irrational belief" is that there is a "base element" in femaleness. She also

suggests that this is a reaction to male fear and guilt over the feminine.

Then she says that we must overcome sexual alienation, and by this she

means we have become alienated from our bodies as women and think of them as

base. So this is in affirmation of the beauty and Divine Inspiration inherant

in the Female Form and Function.

Then she makes a pretty graphic illustration of some things that ARE

base and obscene, highlighting that it is not the feminine form that is

obscene, but the behaviour of some men in response to the female form which is

obscene.

She also points out that in the West, sex has been desublimated but

that it has been put at the absolute disposal of men. This is because the

sexual revolution and the porn industry do not ELEVATE the status of women, they

rape Her, because they put Her ( Feminine Divinity ) at the base service of men,

up for grabs, free for all. So, there is a subtle point in this.

When the Goddess is elevated and shown naked in exposing/revealing

postures, it is the attitude of reverence and the fact of elevating Her and

revealing her Power that distinguishes this from Porn, or from the kind of

societal

Rape of the feminine that Daly is trying to elucidate.

Here is a pssage from the book, from page114&115:

 

"The Most Unholy Trinity: Rape, Genocide, and War

by Mary Daly

The first dimension of what I have baptized as the Most Unholy Trinity is

rape. It is clear that there has always been a connection between the mentality

of rape and the phenomenon of war, although there is much unseeing of this

connection when the war is perceived as "just." An example within recent times

was the horrible treatment of the women of Bangladesh. Many horrendous stories

came out at the time of the civil war between East and West Pakistan, but

scant reference was made to "the heartbreaking reports that as many as 200,000

Bengali women, victims of rape by West Pakistani soldiers, had been abandoned by

their husbands, because no Moslem will live with a wife who has been touched

by another man." ... ... ... ... Goldman cites reports of a town named

Camilla, near Dacca, where women were raped and then thrown from the rooftops

like

rubbish. "One eight-year-old girl whow as found too child-small for the

soldiers' purposes was slit to accommodate them, and raped until she died." ...

....

....

One way of unseeing this is to protest that it happened in another

culture, in a Moslem country. Readers who react in this way should be

interested

in an article that appeared in the New York Times, November 13, 1972(L,

p.47). The item reports the death of a seven-year-old girl who, together with

her

nine-year-old sister, was lured by three teeneaged boys to the roof of a South

Bronx tenement by a promise of pizza. The younger girl was raped and thrown

off the roof to her death. The odler sister was sexually molested but

escaped. Police described her as "hysterical." Most of the rest of the same

page of

the New York Times was occupied by an enormous advertisment for the Saks

Fifth Avenue Men's Store. The ad is a picture of three very cock-sure males in

stylish sport clothes accompanied by three bulldogs. ... It does not require

too

surrealistic a leap of the imagination to associate the three "eminently

commanding" males and their three bulldogs with the three teenaged males who

raped

the seven-year-old girl and then threw her to her death. ... ... in a rapist

culture ... ... ... "

end quote...

------

At any rate, the point is that it is this kind of TREATMENT of the Feminine

Body/Form and this kind of ABUSE of Her Function that is Obscene, NOT her Form

and Function themselves.

 

So, I agree with Devi and all those who have been STanding up for the Group

Picture and the Goddess as she is depicted therein, nude, in a revealing

posture, because it is intended to elevate Her not to degrade her. But I guess

one

has to be careful to be sure that is the message one is getting across, and

even then there are no guarantees cuz a mind that is in the gutter will SEE SMUT

even in the Statue of a Goddess, becuase he will not REALIZE what a Great

Power She is in that form and will see only all the ways in which a man may

disregard and defile her. But, I would suggest that just as Christ ( and other

resurrecting God-men) could not be killed but resurrected and just as the

Phoenix

rises from the flame, the Goddess cannot be defiled by any common man nor by

his imagination of all the ways he might defile Her -- She is Above it and

Beyond it.

 

Blessings of the Goddess,

Cathie

> *** I ended up omitting many classic Devi murthis from the

> presentation, as well as many beautiful Goddess icons from other

> places. ***

>

> That's the tragedy of these retrograde ideologies. Their first

> victims tend to be two of the most vulnerable: Truth and Beauty.

>

> *** Ironically, even under the name of Lajja Gauri Indian sculptors

> carved her displaying the power of the Yoni. This is something

> majestic and awe-inspiring. ***

>

> Actually, there is a page decicated to Her on our website. Would love

> to get your input if you know of additional information or images

> that should be added to the section. Here's the link:

>

> http://shaktisadhana.50megs.com/DEVI/lajjahGauri.html

>

> Thanks again for your contributions ...

>

> DB

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Actually its the victoerian puritanism that still lingers in India long after

the british shed it that is the root cause of this prejudice.

remember even my paternal grandmother as naked waist up. No one considered it

bad.

The noted author Aubry Menen's grand mother asked his father (when he asked why

his wife is not being recieved in the family home) what to invite a woman who

covers the breast like prostitutes into the house? That was the culture of

india; not the pseudo western one that still lingers.

 

Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta wrote:

 

Dear Max:

 

On the topic of the members who were scandalized by the idea of an

immodestly clothed Devi, you noted:

 

*** Tell that to the temple-builders of classic Hindu architecture.

It seems that much has changed in the past eight centuries or so. ***

 

Too right. Kochu made a similar observation earlier yesterday. I

think it's a manifestation of the same fundamentalist tendencies

we're seeing in all of the world's major religions these days. Like

the fundie Christians or Muslims, certain stripes of militant

Hinduism strive to recover a sort of oddly post-modern conception

of "purity" rooted in some vague point in the "past" -- and

revealing, more than anything, the militants' own psychological

hangups (as well as their utter misunderstanding of both the letter

and spirit of the actual past).

 

*** I ended up omitting many classic Devi murthis from the

presentation, as well as many beautiful Goddess icons from other

places. ***

 

That's the tragedy of these retrograde ideologies. Their first

victims tend to be two of the most vulnerable: Truth and Beauty.

 

*** Ironically, even under the name of Lajja Gauri Indian sculptors

carved her displaying the power of the Yoni. This is something

majestic and awe-inspiring. ***

 

Actually, there is a page decicated to Her on our website. Would love

to get your input if you know of additional information or images

that should be added to the section. Here's the link:

 

http://shaktisadhana.50megs.com/DEVI/lajjahGauri.html

 

Thanks again for your contributions ...

 

DB

 

 

 

 

 

/