Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 Forgive me if I am wrong, but recently I was reading a book of Goddesses and it spoke of Kali. It showed a painting/image of Her and one of Her hands held a blood sword having severed the head of a demon. Another of her hands was at her side holding a lotus flower, down at her side in a posture of complete neutrality. So the narrator spoke of the image. The chain of skulls around her neck,the narrator said, represented more than simple death and destruction: it represented the accumulated wisdom, as bone represents that which is eternal, and the head is the part of the body that contains the Mind, and I know there was also some mention of perfect balance, in reference to Kali. She does not slaughter mindlessly as a butcher in a meat packing plant, where 1000 cows an hour go down a conveyor belt. She is a perfect balance of many qualities, has been my perception of her. Powerful and capable of great destruction. Formidable when her wrath is evoked. But not without rhyme or reason. Peace, C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 I was mentioning more of the rituals and types of people who worship kali. There are certain dieties to whom "bali" is performed. Sacrifice of animals etc. Kali worship has this. There are other devis which does not have these rituals. I am not saying one is good or bad, it is what it is. Aim Klim Svaha! :-) > She does not slaughter mindlessly as a butcher in a meat packing > plant, where 1000 cows an hour go down a conveyor belt. She is a perfect balance > of many qualities, has been my perception of her. > Powerful and capable of great destruction. Formidable when her wrath > is evoked. But not without rhyme or reason. > > Peace, > C > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 In a message dated 10/5/2004 5:56:05 PM Mountain Daylight Time, kalipadma writes: > Again, originally Kali was portrayed wearing a garland of freshly-cut > (male) heads. Since the 50 or so heads are supposed to represent the 50 > simple letters of the Sanskrit alphabet, I imagine they should still have > tongues and lips, so each head can properly pronounce the sound it > represents. > I find it interesting, this bit about the flesh covered heads with lips and tongues and the 50 heads representing 50 sansrit letters of the alphabet. Because I am presently reading a book by Leonard Schlain called "The Alphabet versus the Goddess" -- and interesting that they are male heads with the alphabet stamped on them. It seems in this particular versus, if Schlain's theory is correct, Kali has Won the Versus part and Proved Herself quite adequately by severing the heads and having the alphabet strung about Her. > It is Tara Devi who originally wore skulls in a necklace, and the > symbolism given below is applicable to her. But Tara and Kali much > resemble each other, and eventually artists started painting Kali with > skulls rather than flesh-covered heads (or, sometimes, two separate > garlands, one of each!). > Interesting. As for the sources for the pictures ( and I've seen twonow with one of herhands holding a lotus ), I'll go look up the info you were asking for -- sources and such... > Westerners are fascinated by the sacrifices of animals to Kali that go on > in some Kali temples. These are NEVER of cows! First, because only male > animals are offered to Kali; second, because cattle (be they cows or > bulls) are sacred animals in Hinduism, never to be killed or eaten. > > As Cathy says, Kali kills demons. It is humans who offer animals to Her > (usually goats, chickens, and the occasional water-buffalo during > Navaratri) -- and humans who eat the resulting flesh afterwards. Kali is > pleased by offerings of life-energy, and does not crave hamburgers. > lol ! ;-) > Many Shaktas have argued that rather than killing animals, a true Sadhaka > slays his/her own Ego as an offering to the Devi. > Naturally -- > -- Len/ Kalipadma > Thanks so much for the interesting bit about the flesh covered heads with lips and each representing a letter of the alphabet ... When I have read more of Schlain's book, if I find anything that seems relevant to this I'll share the ideas. So far I can see he is drawing parallels between the Goddess and Visual Image and the Feminine side of the Brain, and putting the alphabet with Linear typically considered Masculine side of the brain. I can't explain it any more complex than that right now, cuz I haven't gotten that far in the book. Blessings, Cathie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:02:37 EDT SophiasHeaven writes: > > Forgive me if I am wrong, but recently I was reading a book > of > Goddesses and it spoke of Kali. It showed a painting/image of Her > and one of Her > hands held a blood sword having severed the head of a demon. > Another of her > hands was at her side holding a lotus flower, down at her side in a > posture of > complete neutrality. So the narrator spoke of the image. Hindu iconography is complex, and changes with time. Nevertheless, I have never seen an image of Kali with 4 hands (?) one of which holds a lotus flower. When 4-handed, two hands usually hold a sword and the head of a demon; the other two hands make mudras for "granting boons" and "be fearless." Sometimes the two free hands hold a bowl (to catch blood dripping from the head) and a trident. Did your source give a name or title to the aspect of Kali bearing a lotus? (My curiousity as to what aspect of Kali holds a lotus is understandable, considering my Sanskrit name!) > The chain of skulls > around her neck,the narrator said, represented more than simple > death and > destruction: Again, originally Kali was portrayed wearing a garland of freshly-cut (male) heads. Since the 50 or so heads are supposed to represent the 50 simple letters of the Sanskrit alphabet, I imagine they should still have tongues and lips, so each head can properly pronounce the sound it represents. It is Tara Devi who originally wore skulls in a necklace, and the symbolism given below is applicable to her. But Tara and Kali much resemble each other, and eventually artists started painting Kali with skulls rather than flesh-covered heads (or, sometimes, two separate garlands, one of each!). it represented the accumulated wisdom, as bone > represents that which > is eternal, and the head is the part of the body that contains the > Mind, and I > know there was also some mention of perfect balance, in reference to > Kali. > She does not slaughter mindlessly as a butcher in a meat > packing > plant, where 1000 cows an hour go down a conveyor belt. Westerners are fascinated by the sacrifices of animals to Kali that go on in some Kali temples. These are NEVER of cows! First, because only male animals are offered to Kali; second, because cattle (be they cows or bulls) are sacred animals in Hinduism, never to be killed or eaten. As Cathy says, Kali kills demons. It is humans who offer animals to Her (usually goats, chickens, and the occasional water-buffalo during Navaratri) -- and humans who eat the resulting flesh afterwards. Kali is pleased by offerings of life-energy, and does not crave hamburgers. Many Shaktas have argued that rather than killing animals, a true Sadhaka slays his/her own Ego as an offering to the Devi. -- Len/ Kalipadma ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 I think, to hearken back to the question comparing cows and lions, that lions are MEANT to be predators and hunt and kill other animals. A vegetarian lion would be ill-equipped to chew grains with his pointed teeth, and would quickly become malnourished and die. Then he might reincarnate as a cow! Lions are not "Tamasic" -- they are not inert, nor do they crave darkness. Seems to me "Raja-guna" predominates in them. -- Len/ Kalipadma On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:46:46 -0000 "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet writes: > > > I was mentioning more of the rituals and types of people who worship > kali. > > There are certain dieties to whom "bali" is performed. Sacrifice of > animals etc. Kali worship has this. There are other devis which does > not have these rituals. > > I am not saying one is good or bad, it is what it is. > > Aim Klim Svaha! > > :-) > > > She does not slaughter mindlessly as a butcher in a meat > packing > > plant, where 1000 cows an hour go down a conveyor belt. She is a > perfect balance > > of many qualities, has been my perception of her. > > Powerful and capable of great destruction. Formidable > when > her wrath > > is evoked. But not without rhyme or reason. > > > > Peace, > > C > ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 Om klim svaha= Sri Kali Ma bija mantra Om= pranava mantra Klim= Sri kalima Bija Mantra Svaha= fire offering, self offering(ego) Normally the full mantra is Om Klim Kalika Namah/Swaha malyavan_tibet <malyavan_tibet wrote: I was mentioning more of the rituals and types of people who worship kali. There are certain dieties to whom "bali" is performed. Sacrifice of animals etc. Kali worship has this. There are other devis which does not have these rituals. I am not saying one is good or bad, it is what it is. Aim Klim Svaha! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 Wittgenstien in his famous work Tractatus logico philossophicus says " Of what we cannot speak we must be silent" translating him a wee bit different I have this to tell you "If you dont know about something, just shut the fuck up! , "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > I was mentioning more of the rituals and types of people who worship > kali. > > There are certain dieties to whom "bali" is performed. Sacrifice of > animals etc. Kali worship has this. There are other devis which does > not have these rituals. > > I am not saying one is good or bad, it is what it is. > > Aim Klim Svaha! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 Please let me know what did i state here which is wrong. Otherwise it looks like i have brought an aspect of Kali in your response. :-) , "jaimaa1008" <jaimaa1008> wrote: > > > > > Wittgenstien in his famous work Tractatus logico philossophicus > says " Of what we cannot speak we must be silent" translating him a > wee bit different I have this to tell you "If you dont know about > something, just shut the fuck up! > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > I was mentioning more of the rituals and types of people who worship > > kali. > > > > There are certain dieties to whom "bali" is performed. Sacrifice of > > animals etc. Kali worship has this. There are other devis which does > > not have these rituals. > > > > I am not saying one is good or bad, it is what it is. > > > > Aim Klim Svaha! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 The Kali bija mantra is Krim. The similar-sounding bija of Klim is used to invoke either Krishna or Kama. Now, Ma Kali and Lord Krishna are often seen as varients of each other (I think of Kali as "Krishna inside-out"). But the Klim bija produces affection and increases desire; the Krim bija gives courage and promotes internal transformation. When Malyavan Tibet wrote "Aim Klim Svaha," I thought he was invoking Sarasvati. Her bija is Aim, and the Kama bija (Klim) is also associated with her. (Desire is one of the routes to the Power to Create.) > > Normally the full mantra is > Om Klim Kalika Namah/Swaha > Shouldn't the Goddess's name be in Dative form? I.e., "Kalikayai" ("to little Kali")? -- Len/ Kalipadma On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 17:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Viva Sun <niit_83 writes: > > > Om klim svaha= Sri Kali Ma bija mantra > > Om= pranava mantra > Klim= Sri kalima Bija Mantra > Svaha= fire offering, self offering(ego) > > Normally the full mantra is > Om Klim Kalika Namah/Swaha > > malyavan_tibet <malyavan_tibet wrote: > > I was mentioning more of the rituals and types of people who worship > kali. > > There are certain dieties to whom "bali" is performed. Sacrifice of > animals etc. Kali worship has this. There are other devis which does > not have these rituals. > > I am not saying one is good or bad, it is what it is. > > Aim Klim Svaha! > > :-) > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > $9.95 domain names from . Register anything. > http://us.click./J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM > --~-> > > > > Links > > > > > > > > ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Maybe it was a mis-sent message...I personally found your answer very informative..I knew that "Bali" meant "sacrifice", (as in "The Sacrifice of Bali" in the legend of the Three Steps of Vishnu) but I did not know that it specifically referred to blood sacrifice. Thank you for clearing that up for me. Lilith M. --- malyavan_tibet <malyavan_tibet wrote: > Please let me know what did i state here which is > wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 you are absolutly right Len. and FYI under the principles of meteres whatever he wrote cannot refer to Kali. kalipadma wrote: The Kali bija mantra is Krim. The similar-sounding bija of Klim is used to invoke either Krishna or Kama. Now, Ma Kali and Lord Krishna are often seen as varients of each other (I think of Kali as "Krishna inside-out"). But the Klim bija produces affection and increases desire; the Krim bija gives courage and promotes internal transformation. When Malyavan Tibet wrote "Aim Klim Svaha," I thought he was invoking Sarasvati. Her bija is Aim, and the Kama bija (Klim) is also associated with her. (Desire is one of the routes to the Power to Create.) > > Normally the full mantra is Om Klim Kalika Namah/Swaha > Shouldn't the Goddess's name be in Dative form? I.e., "Kalikayai" ("to little Kali")? -- Len/ Kalipadma On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 17:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Viva Sun <niit_83 writes: > > > Om klim svaha= Sri Kali Ma bija mantra > > Om= pranava mantra > Klim= Sri kalima Bija Mantra > Svaha= fire offering, self offering(ego) > > Normally the full mantra is > Om Klim Kalika Namah/Swaha > > malyavan_tibet <malyavan_tibet wrote: > > I was mentioning more of the rituals and types of people who worship > kali. > > There are certain dieties to whom "bali" is performed. Sacrifice of > animals etc. Kali worship has this. There are other devis which does > not have these rituals. > > I am not saying one is good or bad, it is what it is. > > Aim Klim Svaha! > > :-) > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > $9.95 domain names from . Register anything. > http://us.click./J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM > --~-> > > > > Links > > > > > > > > ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 In the mantra Om Aim Hrim Klim Chamundayai Vicce what (or who) does "Klim" denote? I gather it's difficult to "translate" mantras, so if it makes more sense rephrase my question before answering it, please feel free to do so. >[Kochu:] you are absolutely right Len. > and FYI under the principles of > meteres whatever he wrote cannot refer to Kali. > >[Len:] The Kali bija mantra is Krim. > > The similar-sounding bija of Klim is > used to invoke either Krishna or Kama. > [....] > When Malyavan Tibet wrote "Aim Klim Svaha," I thought he was invoking Sarasvati. Her bija is Aim, and the Kama bija (Klim) is also associated with her. (Desire is one of the routes to the Power to Create.) [....] > > Normally the full mantra is Om Klim Kalika Namah/Swaha [....] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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