Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Dear Malyavan: Imagine a wheel rotating slowly. Think of it as a form of Devi. Now imagine the same wheel rotating faster -- and it becomes another form of Devi. Now visualize the wheel spinning at millions of RPM -- and becoming yet another form of Devi. So what do you think? The slower wheel we can approach and use easily. The faster one, we may also use -- but with increased care and effot. And the fastest one requires the highest level of skill to handle safely -- if you are careless, you risk losing life or limb. That is SATTVA, RAJAS and TAMAS. Kali [Tamas] is THE SAME as Lakshmi and Saraswati -- but her vibratory level is so high that its difficult to comprehend and she looks unmoving (always true of a fast- moving wheel, yes?); still, the slightest wrong touch will bring great loss. Lakshmi [Rajas] will not harm you unless you are quite careless. Sarawati [sattva] will never harm you. So who is best suited to approach Maa Kali? A simple, casually spiritual person, or a knowledgeable, experienced sadhak? People sometimes think it is snobbery or meaningless "exclusivity" to recommend different levels of worship to different people -- but it's not. It's practical advice. Don't play with complicated, dangerous power tools unless you're willing to commit the time, concentration and effort to do it right. Or else you may grievously harm yourself and others. Food habits, professions and so on -- those are mere surface indicators. I stand by my position that they are not especially useful guides as to who should worship Whom. That distinction lies at a much deeper, subtler place. Aum MAtangyai NamaH , "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > Dear Devi Bhakta, > > Yes, you are right, Tamas is a guna. But there could be more of that > Guna in some group of people as opposed to another set of people. It > could be their food habits, their profession. Someone who cuts and > sells meat as their profession, a butcher, probably worships Kali more > than saraswati. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Dear Devi You have nicely explained the Tamas, Rajas and Satvika. It is sad to observe that many have worng perception that Kali has to be offered blood and meat. This ignorance has to be removed. Iyer --- Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta wrote: > > Dear Malyavan: > > Imagine a wheel rotating slowly. Think of it as a > form of Devi. > > Now imagine the same wheel rotating faster -- and it > becomes another > form of Devi. Now visualize the wheel spinning at > millions of RPM -- > and becoming yet another form of Devi. > > So what do you think? The slower wheel we can > approach and use > easily. The faster one, we may also use -- but with > increased care > and effot. And the fastest one requires the highest > level of skill to > handle safely -- if you are careless, you risk > losing life or limb. > > That is SATTVA, RAJAS and TAMAS. Kali [Tamas] is THE > SAME as Lakshmi > and Saraswati -- but her vibratory level is so high > that its > difficult to comprehend and she looks unmoving > (always true of a fast- > moving wheel, yes?); still, the slightest wrong > touch will bring > great loss. Lakshmi [Rajas] will not harm you unless > you are quite > careless. Sarawati [sattva] will never harm you. > > So who is best suited to approach Maa Kali? A > simple, casually > spiritual person, or a knowledgeable, experienced > sadhak? People > sometimes think it is snobbery or meaningless > "exclusivity" to > recommend different levels of worship to different > people -- but it's > not. It's practical advice. Don't play with > complicated, dangerous > power tools unless you're willing to commit the > time, concentration > and effort to do it right. Or else you may > grievously harm yourself > and others. > > Food habits, professions and so on -- those are mere > surface > indicators. I stand by my position that they are not > especially > useful guides as to who should worship Whom. That > distinction lies at > a much deeper, subtler place. > > Aum MAtangyai NamaH > > > > , > "malyavan_tibet" > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > Dear Devi Bhakta, > > > > Yes, you are right, Tamas is a guna. But there > could be more of that > > Guna in some group of people as opposed to another > set of people. It > > could be their food habits, their profession. > Someone who cuts and > > sells meat as their profession, a butcher, > probably worships Kali > more > > than saraswati. > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 I disagree with the gist of this message. People move from a Tamasic sadhana to a sattvic one and not vice versa. The pinnacle of achievement, saundarya lahari and its output can be seen in the works of the classical musicians and classical arts of india, karnatic music, bharatha natyam, agama temple arhitecture and pooja kramas, the sanskrit language and lot of things. Worship of a goddess like saraswati is a flowering which happens from spiritual realization. , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta> wrote: > > Dear Malyavan: > > Imagine a wheel rotating slowly. Think of it as a form of Devi. > > Now imagine the same wheel rotating faster -- and it becomes another > form of Devi. Now visualize the wheel spinning at millions of RPM -- > and becoming yet another form of Devi. > > So what do you think? The slower wheel we can approach and use > easily. The faster one, we may also use -- but with increased care > and effot. And the fastest one requires the highest level of skill to > handle safely -- if you are careless, you risk losing life or limb. > > That is SATTVA, RAJAS and TAMAS. Kali [Tamas] is THE SAME as Lakshmi > and Saraswati -- but her vibratory level is so high that its > difficult to comprehend and she looks unmoving (always true of a fast- > moving wheel, yes?); still, the slightest wrong touch will bring > great loss. Lakshmi [Rajas] will not harm you unless you are quite > careless. Sarawati [sattva] will never harm you. > > So who is best suited to approach Maa Kali? A simple, casually > spiritual person, or a knowledgeable, experienced sadhak? People > sometimes think it is snobbery or meaningless "exclusivity" to > recommend different levels of worship to different people -- but it's > not. It's practical advice. Don't play with complicated, dangerous > power tools unless you're willing to commit the time, concentration > and effort to do it right. Or else you may grievously harm yourself > and others. > > Food habits, professions and so on -- those are mere surface > indicators. I stand by my position that they are not especially > useful guides as to who should worship Whom. That distinction lies at > a much deeper, subtler place. > > Aum MAtangyai NamaH > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > Dear Devi Bhakta, > > > > Yes, you are right, Tamas is a guna. But there could be more of that > > Guna in some group of people as opposed to another set of people. It > > could be their food habits, their profession. Someone who cuts and > > sells meat as their profession, a butcher, probably worships Kali > more > > than saraswati. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 This is not a perception, it is a reality. Ofcourse perception is the reality :-) Kali and her forms, there is sacrifice done. Whether it is being done by dissolving red kumkum in water OR actually beheading a chicken or goat is a different issue. That bhavana is evoked. Where as i have never heard of a saraswati or narayani temple where this is done. May be i am wrong, but it has not reached my years. Speaking of Kali, i am seeking some information on Bhadra, another shakti. If anyone has any links, information please post or forward. , K S Iyer <ksimani> wrote: > > Dear Devi > > You have nicely explained the Tamas, Rajas and Satvika. It is sad to observe that many have worng perception that Kali has to be offered blood and meat. This ignorance has to be removed. > > Iyer > > --- Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta> wrote: > > > > > Dear Malyavan: > > > > Imagine a wheel rotating slowly. Think of it as a > > form of Devi. > > > > Now imagine the same wheel rotating faster -- and it > > becomes another > > form of Devi. Now visualize the wheel spinning at > > millions of RPM -- > > and becoming yet another form of Devi. > > > > So what do you think? The slower wheel we can > > approach and use > > easily. The faster one, we may also use -- but with > > increased care > > and effot. And the fastest one requires the highest > > level of skill to > > handle safely -- if you are careless, you risk > > losing life or limb. > > > > That is SATTVA, RAJAS and TAMAS. Kali [Tamas] is THE > > SAME as Lakshmi > > and Saraswati -- but her vibratory level is so high > > that its > > difficult to comprehend and she looks unmoving > > (always true of a fast- > > moving wheel, yes?); still, the slightest wrong > > touch will bring > > great loss. Lakshmi [Rajas] will not harm you unless > > you are quite > > careless. Sarawati [sattva] will never harm you. > > > > So who is best suited to approach Maa Kali? A > > simple, casually > > spiritual person, or a knowledgeable, experienced > > sadhak? People > > sometimes think it is snobbery or meaningless > > "exclusivity" to > > recommend different levels of worship to different > > people -- but it's > > not. It's practical advice. Don't play with > > complicated, dangerous > > power tools unless you're willing to commit the > > time, concentration > > and effort to do it right. Or else you may > > grievously harm yourself > > and others. > > > > Food habits, professions and so on -- those are mere > > surface > > indicators. I stand by my position that they are not > > especially > > useful guides as to who should worship Whom. That > > distinction lies at > > a much deeper, subtler place. > > > > Aum MAtangyai NamaH > > > > > > > > , > > "malyavan_tibet" > > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Devi Bhakta, > > > > > > Yes, you are right, Tamas is a guna. But there > > could be more of that > > > Guna in some group of people as opposed to another > > set of people. It > > > could be their food habits, their profession. > > Someone who cuts and > > > sells meat as their profession, a butcher, > > probably worships Kali > > more > > > than saraswati. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 It should read my ears, sorry! > this is done. May be i am wrong, but it has not reached my years. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Malyavan: One need not move from one to another. Thats the western linear thinking. malyavan_tibet <malyavan_tibet wrote: I disagree with the gist of this message. People move from a Tamasic sadhana to a sattvic one and not vice versa. The pinnacle of achievement, saundarya lahari and its output can be seen in the works of the classical musicians and classical arts of india, karnatic music, bharatha natyam, agama temple arhitecture and pooja kramas, the sanskrit language and lot of things. Worship of a goddess like saraswati is a flowering which happens from spiritual realization. , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta> wrote: > > Dear Malyavan: > > Imagine a wheel rotating slowly. Think of it as a form of Devi. > > Now imagine the same wheel rotating faster -- and it becomes another > form of Devi. Now visualize the wheel spinning at millions of RPM -- > and becoming yet another form of Devi. > > So what do you think? The slower wheel we can approach and use > easily. The faster one, we may also use -- but with increased care > and effot. And the fastest one requires the highest level of skill to > handle safely -- if you are careless, you risk losing life or limb. > > That is SATTVA, RAJAS and TAMAS. Kali [Tamas] is THE SAME as Lakshmi > and Saraswati -- but her vibratory level is so high that its > difficult to comprehend and she looks unmoving (always true of a fast- > moving wheel, yes?); still, the slightest wrong touch will bring > great loss. Lakshmi [Rajas] will not harm you unless you are quite > careless. Sarawati [sattva] will never harm you. > > So who is best suited to approach Maa Kali? A simple, casually > spiritual person, or a knowledgeable, experienced sadhak? People > sometimes think it is snobbery or meaningless "exclusivity" to > recommend different levels of worship to different people -- but it's > not. It's practical advice. Don't play with complicated, dangerous > power tools unless you're willing to commit the time, concentration > and effort to do it right. Or else you may grievously harm yourself > and others. > > Food habits, professions and so on -- those are mere surface > indicators. I stand by my position that they are not especially > useful guides as to who should worship Whom. That distinction lies at > a much deeper, subtler place. > > Aum MAtangyai NamaH > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > Dear Devi Bhakta, > > > > Yes, you are right, Tamas is a guna. But there could be more of that > > Guna in some group of people as opposed to another set of people. It > > could be their food habits, their profession. Someone who cuts and > > sells meat as their profession, a butcher, probably worships Kali > more > > than saraswati. > > / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 I like your metaphor. But Lakshmi seldom causes actual danger. If you offend her, she simply withdraws her influence. Poverty is the result. Sarasvati traditionally has a wicked temper. She doesn't like male privilege, and is rather the feminist. (Her marriage to Brahma was problematic -- many stories say she left him!) She wants to be first in your heart. She hates laziness, and doesn't accept excuses. If you've ever suffered from writer's block, or inability to master one's creative tools, you'll know how dangerous it is to abuse Sarasvati. -- Len/ Kalipadma On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:36:35 -0000 "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta writes: > > > Dear Malyavan: > > Imagine a wheel rotating slowly. Think of it as a form of Devi. > > Now imagine the same wheel rotating faster -- and it becomes another > > form of Devi. Now visualize the wheel spinning at millions of RPM -- > > and becoming yet another form of Devi. > > So what do you think? The slower wheel we can approach and use > easily. The faster one, we may also use -- but with increased care > and effot. And the fastest one requires the highest level of skill > to > handle safely -- if you are careless, you risk losing life or limb. > > That is SATTVA, RAJAS and TAMAS. Kali [Tamas] is THE SAME as Lakshmi > > and Saraswati -- but her vibratory level is so high that its > difficult to comprehend and she looks unmoving (always true of a > fast- > moving wheel, yes?); still, the slightest wrong touch will bring > great loss. Lakshmi [Rajas] will not harm you unless you are quite > careless. Sarawati [sattva] will never harm you. > > So who is best suited to approach Maa Kali? A simple, casually > spiritual person, or a knowledgeable, experienced sadhak? People > sometimes think it is snobbery or meaningless "exclusivity" to > recommend different levels of worship to different people -- but > it's > not. It's practical advice. Don't play with complicated, dangerous > power tools unless you're willing to commit the time, concentration > and effort to do it right. Or else you may grievously harm yourself > and others. > > Food habits, professions and so on -- those are mere surface > indicators. I stand by my position that they are not especially > useful guides as to who should worship Whom. That distinction lies > at > a much deeper, subtler place. > > Aum MAtangyai NamaH > > > > , "malyavan_tibet" > <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > > > Dear Devi Bhakta, > > > > Yes, you are right, Tamas is a guna. But there could be more of > that > > Guna in some group of people as opposed to another set of people. > It > > could be their food habits, their profession. Someone who cuts and > > sells meat as their profession, a butcher, probably worships Kali > more > > than saraswati. > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > $9.95 domain names from . Register anything. > http://us.click./J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM > --~-> > > > > Links > > > > > > > > ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 But you cannot move directly from Tamas to Sattva. Rajas is the link between them, and you must pass through it first. You seem to feel that Sarasvati is Sattvic. But what about students of Hinduism who say she is Rajasic -- that Strife and Desire are the routes to Creativity? The Sattvic personality is content to accept things as they are. -- Len/ Kalipadma On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:54:25 -0000 "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet writes: > > > I disagree with the gist of this message. People move from a Tamasic > sadhana to a sattvic one and not vice versa. > > The pinnacle of achievement, saundarya lahari and its output can be > seen in the works of the classical musicians and classical arts of > india, karnatic music, bharatha natyam, agama temple arhitecture and > pooja kramas, the sanskrit language and lot of things. Worship of a > goddess like saraswati is a flowering which happens from spiritual > realization. > > ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 I am not a "Hindu". Its some term coined by indologists. Art and music as an expression of the divine or a worship for it, the inspiration is saraswati. , kalipadma@j... wrote: > > But you cannot move directly from Tamas to Sattva. Rajas is the link > between them, and you must pass through it first. > > You seem to feel that Sarasvati is Sattvic. But what about students of > Hinduism who say she is Rajasic -- that Strife and Desire are the routes > to Creativity? The Sattvic personality is content to accept things as > they are. > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:54:25 -0000 "malyavan_tibet" > <malyavan_tibet> writes: > > > > > > I disagree with the gist of this message. People move from a Tamasic > > sadhana to a sattvic one and not vice versa. > > > > The pinnacle of achievement, saundarya lahari and its output can be > > seen in the works of the classical musicians and classical arts of > > india, karnatic music, bharatha natyam, agama temple arhitecture and > > pooja kramas, the sanskrit language and lot of things. Worship of a > > goddess like saraswati is a flowering which happens from spiritual > > realization. > > > > > > > ______________ > Get your name as your email address. > Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more > Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Thank you, Iyer, it *is* a good metaphor, useful in getting one's mind around the Gunas. But I can take no credit for it; it was taught to me by Sri Bhasurananda Natha. DB , K S Iyer <ksimani> wrote: > > Dear Devi > > You have nicely explained the Tamas, Rajas and Satvika. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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