Gift of the Guru - what is Shaktipaat

[Guest guest]

>In fact if U put anyone above God that is idolatry. True Guru >won`t allow U to

say such things even. Because true Guru knows >God.

I said, he is respected above, not above. Destination is above the guide, but

guide is respected above destination as without him, it's way harder to get

there. (that's just how i beleive, it's okay to have differences, i'm not

arguing mine is right)

True Guru doesn't say he should be respected, but a true disciple will respect

him.

>Guru's spiritual power (tapas) can be transferred to his >disciple if guru

wishes just like a rich person financially >helps his poor relatives. It's as

simple as that.

>Not right analogy. God`s grace and love isn`t some unconcious >material such as

money is. Guru may pray and U will be blessed >by God. As a person dear to God

he can bring U near Him.

>What U tell about tapasya-shakti sound similar to medieval >catholic idea of

indulgencia - which was serving earning money >purpose as well .

I compared tapas with money so it'd be easier to understand. I know curtain

of self-logic comes in front of everything as our mind says "I'm right, others

are not, i read so many books....".

Your idea of Shaktipaat intend to say that no one can store spiritual energy

in our body, so no transfer of energy. Or may be you intend to say Guru has

God's power that he can transform to his disciple(that'll contradict ur theory).

If Guru just prays God, what better he than us, as u pointed he doesn't have any

power to transfer. So getting close to God means nothing except praying? How do

u define getting close to god? Praying for 5 yrs, 10yrs? Hindu books say getting

close to god increases our spiritual power ultimately merging with god. Your

theory of praying may be partially correct for Bhaktiyoga lines but still the

prayer gets power otherwise praying is useless.

Refer to Dadhichi rishi who gave his spiritually energized skeleton to make

weapons to fight demons. Spiritual energy can be stored in ones body and mind

that can be transferred to others.

Begging is not correct interpretation of attaining energy through hard sadhana

and tapasya.

> from www.siddhashram.org

>U know "Siddhashram" makes good business out of such ideas. It >is a commercial

but not spiritual organization. Of course >whatever they write and teach is just

basis for money earning - >through fraud .

I agree that there are many spiritual gurus and organizations just to make

money from dillusion. Money is needed even to those dedicated to spirituality to

run their organization. People are putting their time just as we are putting our

time for a full-time job. You said Guru is close to god, so what if a guru opens

one institute to organize a systematic program to give his knowledge to others?

doesn't he need some money to run it? Or God will shower him?

Don't say "Fraud" to anyone unless you have proof. Your logic doesn't have any

right to make someone fraud. At least those organizations are doing a better job

of giving troubled people a way to find peace and solace through spiritual

knowledge and practices.

There are thieves and robbers in the world, but it is not logical to generalise

that everyone is a thief. So let's not use hard words to anyone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/24/2004 3:56:27 AM Mountain Daylight Time,

yogiman2003 writes:

> Your idea of Shaktipaat intend to say that no one can store spiritual

> energy in our body, so no transfer of energy. Or may be you intend to say Guru

> has God's power that he can transform to his disciple(that'll contradict ur

> theory).

>

>

The ability to transfer consciousness energy is something we all can do. The

trick is that we can only do this in so far as we have become conscious

ourselves. Just like a mother transfers her own consciousness about the world

to a

little child, and the child grows in consciousness and experience. If the

mother has hangups, they will also be transferred to the child.

That's why one has to be careful who one chooses for a teacher -- just

like a little child takes care in being born, to choose parents who will best

suit that child's individual karma needs for spiritual growth.

 

Energy of consciousness can't be transferred to just anyone: only somebody

who is ready for it -- who is at a stage of spiritual development to be able to

handle it. If a mother tries to impart her child with consciousness of

Algebra, before the child has learned to count, nothing will come of it.

 

Spiritual healers transfer spiritual energy to their patients all the time,

which results in healings of all sorts.

Even a Reiki Master can do this but they channel the energy of the Divine

through them and not the energy of their own consciousness..

 

Some have more spiritual energy developed/raised in their body as they

progress and consciousness allows it.

I believe it is consciousness that attains to the Divine, and only

that energy is retained within the body which consciousness will allow. Why

would a guru waste his effort transferring energy of consciousness to somebody

who

isn't ready for it? It's a waste of effort on the guru/teacher/s part to do

so. If a teacher/guru is such a highly conscious individual, he/she will know

how much energy and when to transfer to the student -- he/she will be able to

feel the student's capacity in consciousness even when they are far apart.

Barbara Brennan, in Hands of Light, talks about how when consciousness

is raised through meditation or by other methods, that the chakras begin to

open and channel more energy through them on a steady basis, and all energy that

passes through the body must be processed by consciousness or it can lead to

trouble by encountering blocks within the body (isn't this what they call

premature kundalini rising? -- it causes probelms because there still remain too

many consciousness blocks on the body) (yes, consciousness in the body -- )

If the guru, or anybody, gave too much spiritual energy to any person

at any time who was not ready for it, either the energy would make them mad

cuz they wouldhn't be prepared for it, or the energy would not "take" --

A guru, or a spiritual healer, has to use Wisdom to know how much

energy and when to transfer certain lessons to the disciple/patient.

Energy is dynamic it moves in the body ande causes change through

consciousness. Energy of a teacher flows through the body and as it does,

consciousness is changed.

It is the fact that consciousness is changed that makes all the

difference.

Even across long distances, such a teacher can send energy of

consciousness to her student, raising consciousness.

If a guru could immediately transfer all the energy of attainment to

the student in one dose, the guru would not be necessary anymore after that,

and the concept of studying with a guru would be meaningless because all one

would need is one session with the guru and it would be over with.

Consciousness/energy can only be transferred in sofar as the person who accepts

the

energy/consciousness is ready to attain it, and no more, and not sooner.

Even a spiritual healer works with a patient in sessions, channeling

energy of the Divine into the patient in ways and locations that will bring

about healing, but it doesn't just heal the body, the consciousness raises in

the

process and the energy initiates the patient into an expansion of

consciousness that may take some time for the patient to process. Then when it

is

processed, they go back in for another session. If they fail to process the

energy

at any phase, they will not make progress in healing, and will most likely

abandon the process.

 

Peace,

Cathie

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jay maa,

 

Thanks for the enlighthening thoughts you have given:

 

 

1. Energy of consciousness can't be transferred to

just anyone: only somebody who is ready for it -- who

is at a stage of spiritual development to be able to

handle it. If a mother tries to impart her child

with consciousness of Algebra, before the child has

learned to count, nothing will come of it.

 

2. Why would a guru waste his effort transferring

energy of consciousness to somebody who isn't ready

for it? It's a waste of effort on the guru/teacher/s

part to do so. If a teacher/guru is such a highly

conscious individual, he/she will know

how much energy and when to transfer to the student --

he/she will be able to feel the student's capacity in

consciousness even when they are far apart.

 

(Mirah)

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

@arjuna,

I think you may have been misinformed or only heard from impatient seekers.

I know quite a few who found a true guru and have become highly elevated sadhaks

from siddhashram.org.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

@sankara

No offense taken. I appreciate your humility. My reply perhaps was

more defensive as I have strong faith towards Guruji who left his

physical body few yrs ago.

 

---sankara wrote---

> I did not make that statement without basis.

> I made it seriously to stimulate a discussion on what can be done

and cannot be done with mantra and tantra.

 

I am aware that advertising business has it's influence, but i

believe sadhanas, mantra, tantra actually work if done properly.

Siddhashram has unveiled so many sadhanas to public that is worth

appreciating. If you really want to challenge, do some sadhanas and

see if they work or not. I hope you believe in mantra, tantra to

some extent if not fully.

 

> Fortunately I know how to deal with my problems and I really did

not ask for personal gain.

 

that's great

> so you have no firsthand knowledge. Manifesting deities? Whats so

great about it? Then do what? Was it material progress or spiritual

progress that they were after? Are you sure they manifested? And Can

they manifest for others to see? What did they gain?

>

 

Manifesting deities is a great achievement in spiritual path. this

experience helps sadhak to go ahead with more faith and

determination plus he gets guidance and protection from the deity.

What's so great about it?? Some of sadhak's sole purpose was to

manifest their beloved deity and they got it. May be not great for yo

(may be ur goal is diff) but for them, it's really great. And it'd

be great for me if some day I get to see my beloved deity.

Yes, I believe they did.

Again the same question if they can manifest for others to see. No,

those kind of spiritual experiences are rare and one has to be

qualified for that. Just asking proof is not enough for those kinda

experiences. If that were like that, one would manifest god and all

asking proof in the world will also manifest as well. :-)

 

> This is a standard answer. IMHO if the spiritual rules are the

same. If a mantra is recited as prescribed, the result SHOULD be

there. But before that you look at the karmic balance I agree. If

the balance is negative first set it right and as you say "pull the

switch" the light WILL come on. Why should a Guru do it? Because it

is his job. Once one becomes a Guru it is not just his sweet will

and pleasure to "do" or "not to do" things. he has RESPONSIBLITIES.

If someone asks, it is his DUTY to see the karmic balance help that

person right it and then tell him what to do to get his problem

solved. Some gurus even take on the Karmic blocks and burns them off

so that teh aspirant gets what he wants.

>

 

Yes, guru has responsibilities to all who he considers his disciple

and as u said helps remove his karmic defects. But it's very rare

not every time that happens in an instant. Diff sadhak get diff

effect acc to own sanskaars.

> "how long does it take an adept to remove Karmic blocks? As far as

I know for a "real adept" it is instantaneous. Anyone who hums and

haws about it and starts giving excuses, not being able to produce

the result, is just a traveler and not one who has "reached". We

find so few people who have "reached" and the others just trot out

excuses.

>

There can't be a fixed time for everyone. One may need more other

less depending on how much work needs to be done on his karmic

defects. "Real Adept" may get instantaneous enlightenment, but

becoming "real adept" may take long. If you consider yourself "real

adept" I'd suggest to go ahead and see if it works or not. I believe

you'd be successful in all sadhanas.

 

> "Challeging and inquiring is the basis of sadhana.

 

Okay, I agree, but inquiry and challenge should follow practice,

otherwise it'd just stop at words not results.

>

> Again a mistaken notion. There are samskaras and what not and we

are given the freedom to work them out or neutralise. It takes but

an instant for an "adept" to help neutralise them or give the

sadhana to neutralise them "here and now".

>

i'd look forward to some sadhanas that will remove all of my karmic

defects in an instant. that'd be something. Please define " an

instant", is it a sec after chanting mantra or after 125,000 or in a

time line?

 

> No one here said that His Guru alone is great. Have you visited

the Siddhashram site? I have. It had me laughing. They are the ones

who say they solve any problem. With that type of claims every one

will be a prime minister or whatever they want to be. The Guru's job

is to assess the deciple's past samskaras, then decide on a course

of action. These people do not even need the man's presence. Diksha

with picture? I dunno.

>

 

Diksha can be given not only through Picture but even without it.

Even just with name. Many of Vedas' rituals just need name, parents

name, gotra etc.

> A real adept will know whether it is a fair challenge or not!! Oh

IC it takes time, is it?? I did not know that!! Siddhashram site

seems to talk of instantaneous results.

>

 

May be those instantaneous results oriented advertisements need some

revisions on the site.

One experience from the site is included authenticity of that you

can argue as well.

http://www.siddhashram.org/e200105.shtml

------

CHANGE OF FORTUNE BY DIKSHA

 

Through a photo I had Diksha from Jodhpur. I obtained Bhagyoday

Diksha at the Nikhil Janmotsav Sadhana Camp in Allahabad from

revered Gurudev Arvind Shrimali. At that time I was having many

financial problems.

 

Gurudev advised me to chant one round of a Mantra daily for 31 days.

As I continued with the Sadhana slowly a change appeared in my

circumstances. Suddenly I had success in business too. Now due to

Gurudev's grace my financial position has become a lot better. I and

my wife chant the Guru Mantra daily.

 

Not just this Sadgurudev saved my life twice. My life was saved two

times in different accidents. I and my family feel indebted towards

Sadgurudev. I offer my respect in his holy feet.

 

- Dr. D. K. Patidar, Badwani (MP)

-------

 

I won't call this experience as an example of instantaneously.

 

>

> I DID NOT criticize any one. I was asking an open question.

 

I may have taken it differently :-(

> What I saw here was a feeling that any person who asks questions

is not a sadhaka and is spiritually immature. I have rarely called

anyone immature because EVERYONE I HAVE MET HERE had something to

say and teach. The reason I stated this is because of the gentleman

who wanted wealth teleportation and whatnot with mantras.

>

 

Mantras have power but it usually doesn't make someone bill gates

overnight. Sadhaks do ask question as they are trying to move ahead.

> I am sorry if I offended. I just wanted a topic opened for

discussion. Please pardon me, a mere traveller on the path who has

reached nowhere if I sounded offenceive. That was not my intention.

>

No offense taken as I said, no official representative from

siddhashram here. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

---------------------

By the way i look at posts here, most of us believe in spiritual

power from Mantra, Tantra, Meditation etc. Some of you may be in a

high level too whose guidance we all seek.

take care