Reviewing some Vedic concepts to assure understanding...

[Guest guest]

Greetings all,

 

I want to review some basic concepts before proceeding with deeper studies

(mainly concentrating on Shaktism and how people worship Kali), so that I

have a decent understanding of the mindset of the people who follow the

Vedic religions. I may not get it all on the first shot, since I am raised

in the West, but I am striving to understand...even if it means me just

idling in the basics for a long time, before I proceed with more advanced

material. Add comments or other concepts that I need to review at your

will.

 

Concept of Divinity: Most Vedic individuals believe that God is infinite,

part of us and beyond us, and so forth. They acknowledge that God has many

incarnates, many forms, and that everyone has their own way of worshipping

God. A lot of westerners foreign (I say "a lot", not all) to this concept

are quick to say that Hindus worship many, when they actually worship one

but in many forms.

 

Karma: Fate by action. It is much similar to "you reap what you sow." This

also determines what you will reincarnate as in the next life time. Through

this, you are responsible for your own destiny.

 

Reincarnation: It will take a certain amount of deaths and rebirths before

one reaches enlightenment (I am definitely not close ).

 

Sattvic, Rajastic, Tamastic: "Light" or spiritual evolution, active energy

or what keeps things in motion, and "dark" or what dissolves.

 

Sadhana: Spiritual practice.

 

Sanatana Dharma: "What is right for the universe", also another name for the

Vedic religions/Hinduism.

 

Dharma: Tenets/path of the individual essential for their well-being.

 

Yoga: Discipline.

 

Bhakti: Devotion.

 

Moksha: Liberation.

 

Ego: The part of us that keeps us bonded to this world.

 

Maya: This world. Most Hindus believe that it is an illusion, but I am

guessing that most Shaktas acknowledge that it is real, but something that

one must rise above sooner or later.

 

Beliefs concerning Heaven and the Hells: They are states of mind, based on

one's Karma.

 

Main goal: Finding enlightenment through a variety of disciplines; to

become one with God.

 

 

Okay, time for the correcting and adding, Lol.

This is what I came to understand through my studies so far.

 

 

Thank you and Blessings,

_______________

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[Guest guest]

Dear Anya:

 

Suffice it to say that you're on the right track for starters.

 

It's possible to nitpick all of these definitions, of course (and my

guess is that your post may breed lots of nitpicking *lol*). But

please realize that each and every term you mention could be (and has

been) the subject of multiple books and centuries of learned debate

and refinement.

 

As a very basic orientation point, I'd note that most Hindus would

refer to their faith as Sanatana Dharma rather than "Vedic religion."

Especially within Shakta schools of Hinduism, many aspects of practice

and philosophy almost certainly predate the Vedas. Also, Shakta

systems very often employ Tantric methodologies -- and the intricacies

of the relationship between Veda and Tantra could keep (in fact, has

kept) armies of experts battling for years.

 

I think you mentioned once that you don't have loads of spare cash to

spend on books at the moment; but -- since you're looking to "review

basic concepts" -- I'd *highly* recommend that you invest in orienting

yourself with "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Hinduism," by Linda

Johnsen and David Frawley. Both authors are knowledgeable and

experienced hands at making esoteric Eastern philosophy easily

comprehensible to Western minds. The Amazon link (it's long, so you'll

probably have to cut-n-paste) is below, and currently includes used

copies for less than 10 bucks:

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0028642279/qid=/sr=/ref=cm_lm_asin\

/102-5683242-1178509?v=glance

 

Please know that, in making this recommendation, I am not suggesting

that you are an "Idiot" ;-) ... I'm truly just saying that this book

is a great introductory tool. I like it better than the UK-published

"Teach Yourself Hinduism," by Owen Cole; because (a) the "Idiot" book

has more detail and better organization; and (b) Johnsen and Frawley

are both *very* knowledgeable in and sympathetic toward Shaktism

(which is a depressingly rare quality in explanatory Hindu literature).

 

If you wanna try something denser and thicker and duller, Klaus

Klostermaier's "Survey of Hinduism" is the classic standard college

textbook. But it also reads like a textbook (Kurt Vonnegut would say,

"it reads like it was translated from classical Chinese by Philboyd

Studge," *lol*) :-& ... And frankly, I think it's (again, like most of

the literature) weak on its discussions of Shaktism.

 

The bottom line is, for basic information such as you're seeking, a

message board like Shakti Sadhana might be more confusing than

helpful. Better if you first get a solid grasp of the base concepts

from a good text such as the "Idiot's Guide", *then* come here to

sharpen and refine your knowledge. Otherwise, the rapid-fire exchange

of opinions, hairsplitting and doctrinal disagreement here might tie

you up in knots.

 

Just a suggestion!

 

DB

[Guest guest]

Hello DB,

 

I figured that I would still have a lot to learn, which is more than okay.

I have the book by Linda Johnsen on the top of my "books to buy" list and

plan to purchase it as soon as possible. Thank you for mentioning that it

is Shaktism friendly - much of my research so far, as far as online sources

go, is based so much on the mainstream schools of thought that when I read

the posts here, it does create a tiny bit of confusion...as you predicted.

 

The nitpicking does not bother me, as long as it keeps to constructive

criticism and debate - none of the personal attacks or insults . I

learned through personal experience that not everyone of the same religion

(or any lifestyle for that matter) agree with each other.

 

Maybe someday I will be able to contribute more to this group - otherwise, I

will remain a student...

 

Thanks again and blessings,

>"Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta

>

>

> Re: Reviewing some Vedic concepts to assure

>understanding...

>Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:31:33 -0000

>

>

>Dear Anya:

>

>Suffice it to say that you're on the right track for starters.

>

>It's possible to nitpick all of these definitions, of course (and my

>guess is that your post may breed lots of nitpicking *lol*). But

>please realize that each and every term you mention could be (and has

>been) the subject of multiple books and centuries of learned debate

>and refinement.

>

>As a very basic orientation point, I'd note that most Hindus would

>refer to their faith as Sanatana Dharma rather than "Vedic religion."

>Especially within Shakta schools of Hinduism, many aspects of practice

>and philosophy almost certainly predate the Vedas. Also, Shakta

>systems very often employ Tantric methodologies -- and the intricacies

>of the relationship between Veda and Tantra could keep (in fact, has

>kept) armies of experts battling for years.

>

>I think you mentioned once that you don't have loads of spare cash to

>spend on books at the moment; but -- since you're looking to "review

>basic concepts" -- I'd *highly* recommend that you invest in orienting

>yourself with "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Hinduism," by Linda

>Johnsen and David Frawley. Both authors are knowledgeable and

>experienced hands at making esoteric Eastern philosophy easily

>comprehensible to Western minds. The Amazon link (it's long, so you'll

>probably have to cut-n-paste) is below, and currently includes used

>copies for less than 10 bucks:

>

>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0028642279/qid=/sr=/ref=cm_lm_asi\

n/102-5683242-1178509?v=glance

>

>Please know that, in making this recommendation, I am not suggesting

>that you are an "Idiot" ;-) ... I'm truly just saying that this book

>is a great introductory tool. I like it better than the UK-published

>"Teach Yourself Hinduism," by Owen Cole; because (a) the "Idiot" book

>has more detail and better organization; and (b) Johnsen and Frawley

>are both *very* knowledgeable in and sympathetic toward Shaktism

>(which is a depressingly rare quality in explanatory Hindu literature).

>

>If you wanna try something denser and thicker and duller, Klaus

>Klostermaier's "Survey of Hinduism" is the classic standard college

>textbook. But it also reads like a textbook (Kurt Vonnegut would say,

>"it reads like it was translated from classical Chinese by Philboyd

>Studge," *lol*) :-& ... And frankly, I think it's (again, like most of

>the literature) weak on its discussions of Shaktism.

>

>The bottom line is, for basic information such as you're seeking, a

>message board like Shakti Sadhana might be more confusing than

>helpful. Better if you first get a solid grasp of the base concepts

>from a good text such as the "Idiot's Guide", *then* come here to

>sharpen and refine your knowledge. Otherwise, the rapid-fire exchange

>of opinions, hairsplitting and doctrinal disagreement here might tie

>you up in knots.

>

>Just a suggestion!

>

>DB

>

>

>

 

_______________

On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to

get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

[Guest guest]

Hi Anya:

 

Your contributions are excellent. Keep posting while u read! Don't

wait til you know it all! *lol* In fact, there is more than any one

person can (or needs to, really) learn in a lifetime. I like your

posts very much. Please keep them coming.

 

Yes, the "Idiot" book is quite good on the role of Devi, Shaktism,

etc. Linda Johnsen is an avowed Hindu, a pretty serious Ammachi

devotee, I believe, and has written well on living Hindu women saints,

etc. David Frawley is a Srividya initiate, a Sanskrit scholar, and

probably one of the best authorities on Ayurveda who is not

Indian-born. He's written a good book on the Dasha Mahavidyas (Ten

Wisdom Devis) also. Though the their intro book is released under the

"Idiot" moniker, it is not junk I assure u.

 

BTW, I'm with you on the "constructive debate" preference. May it come

to pass. :-o<

 

Aum MAtangyai NamaH

 

DB

 

, "Anya Mortiis"

<angelusmortiis@h...> wrote:

> Hello DB,

>

> I figured that I would still have a lot to learn, which is more than

okay.

[Guest guest]

"Karma: Fate by action. It is much similar to "you reap what you

sow." This also determines what you will reincarnate as in the

next life time. Through this, you are responsible for your own

destiny."

 

 

Karma means action. If there is any ego or desire in the action

then there is a consequence to the action for the doer. These

consequences build up. When one reincarnates, there is a

certain amount of the stored karma that will come to fruition in

that lifetime. So there are three types of karma:

1. Sanchita Karma- the vast storehouse of karma

2. Agami Karma- new karma that is incurred in this lifetime.

3. Parabhdha Karma- karma that has been allocated to come to

fruition in this lifetime.

 

The individual also experiences the effects of accrued karma in

the afterlife between rebirths.

 

There are different views on whether one reincarnates as a

human only, or some lower order species.

 

 

 

"Yoga: Discipline."

 

Yoga means union or yoke. It refers to the means through which

one becomes aware of his/her Divine Being and also to the state

of being aware of one's Divine Being. The Yogic methods

involve disciplining of the mind, but the goal is to remove the

dependence on the senses and ego as sources of information

or filters of information through developing discrimination

(viveka) and dispassion (dispassion).

 

 

 

"Ego: The part of us that keeps us bonded to this world."

 

Ego is the tendency to believe the evidence of the senses and

emotions that one is a discrete individual separate from all else.

It is the sense of I-ness. Ego starts from separation and leads

into desire, competition, conflict, estrangement, and war.

 

"Maya: This world. Most Hindus believe that it is an illusion, but I

am guessing that most Shaktas acknowledge that it is real, but

something that one must rise above sooner or later."

 

Maya can be seen as illusion, realative existence, or the creative

properties of the gunas. In any event, it is the ability that makes

us believe the phenomenal world has real and permanent

existence without a Divine substratum from which it arises.

 

 

Omprem

 

 

, "Anya Mortiis"

<angelusmortiis@h...> wrote:

> Greetings all,

>

> I want to review some basic concepts before proceeding with

deeper studies

> (mainly concentrating on Shaktism and how people worship

Kali), so that I

> have a decent understanding of the mindset of the people who

follow the

> Vedic religions. I may not get it all on the first shot, since I am

raised

> in the West, but I am striving to understand...even if it means

me just

> idling in the basics for a long time, before I proceed with more

advanced

> material. Add comments or other concepts that I need to

review at your

> will.

>

> Concept of Divinity: Most Vedic individuals believe that God is

infinite,

> part of us and beyond us, and so forth. They acknowledge that

God has many

> incarnates, many forms, and that everyone has their own way

of worshipping

> God. A lot of westerners foreign (I say "a lot", not all) to this

concept

> are quick to say that Hindus worship many, when they actually

worship one

> but in many forms.

>

> Karma: Fate by action. It is much similar to "you reap what you

sow." This

> also determines what you will reincarnate as in the next life

time. Through

> this, you are responsible for your own destiny.

>

> Reincarnation: It will take a certain amount of deaths and

rebirths before

> one reaches enlightenment (I am definitely not close ).

>

> Sattvic, Rajastic, Tamastic: "Light" or spiritual evolution, active

energy

> or what keeps things in motion, and "dark" or what dissolves.

>

> Sadhana: Spiritual practice.

>

> Sanatana Dharma: "What is right for the universe", also

another name for the

> Vedic religions/Hinduism.

>

> Dharma: Tenets/path of the individual essential for their

well-being.

>

> Yoga: Discipline.

>

> Bhakti: Devotion.

>

> Moksha: Liberation.

>

> Ego: The part of us that keeps us bonded to this world.

>

> Maya: This world. Most Hindus believe that it is an illusion, but

I am

> guessing that most Shaktas acknowledge that it is real, but

something that

> one must rise above sooner or later.

>

> Beliefs concerning Heaven and the Hells: They are states of

mind, based on

> one's Karma.

>

> Main goal: Finding enlightenment through a variety of

disciplines; to

> become one with God.

>

>

> Okay, time for the correcting and adding, Lol.

> This is what I came to understand through my studies so far.

>

>

> Thank you and Blessings,

> Anya

>

>

 

_______________

> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download

today - it's FREE!

>

http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/

01/

[Guest guest]

Despite the unfortunate title the 'The Complete Idiot's Guide to

Yoga' is a very useful book as is 'The Complete Idiot's Guide to

Meditation'

 

Omprem

 

 

 

, "Devi Bhakta"

<devi_bhakta> wrote:

>

> Dear Anya:

>

> Suffice it to say that you're on the right track for starters.

>

> It's possible to nitpick all of these definitions, of course (and

my

> guess is that your post may breed lots of nitpicking *lol*). But

> please realize that each and every term you mention could be

(and has

> been) the subject of multiple books and centuries of learned

debate

> and refinement.

>

> As a very basic orientation point, I'd note that most Hindus

would

> refer to their faith as Sanatana Dharma rather than "Vedic

religion."

> Especially within Shakta schools of Hinduism, many aspects

of practice

> and philosophy almost certainly predate the Vedas. Also,

Shakta

> systems very often employ Tantric methodologies -- and the

intricacies

> of the relationship between Veda and Tantra could keep (in

fact, has

> kept) armies of experts battling for years.

>

> I think you mentioned once that you don't have loads of spare

cash to

> spend on books at the moment; but -- since you're looking to

"review

> basic concepts" -- I'd *highly* recommend that you invest in

orienting

> yourself with "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Hinduism," by

Linda

> Johnsen and David Frawley. Both authors are knowledgeable

and

> experienced hands at making esoteric Eastern philosophy

easily

> comprehensible to Western minds. The Amazon link (it's long,

so you'll

> probably have to cut-n-paste) is below, and currently includes

used

> copies for less than 10 bucks:

>

>

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0028642279/qid=

/sr=/ref=cm_lm_asin/102-5683242-1178509?v=glance

>

> Please know that, in making this recommendation, I am not

suggesting

> that you are an "Idiot" ;-) ... I'm truly just saying that this book

> is a great introductory tool. I like it better than the UK-published

> "Teach Yourself Hinduism," by Owen Cole; because (a) the

"Idiot" book

> has more detail and better organization; and (b) Johnsen and

Frawley

> are both *very* knowledgeable in and sympathetic toward

Shaktism

> (which is a depressingly rare quality in explanatory Hindu

literature).

>

> If you wanna try something denser and thicker and duller,

Klaus

> Klostermaier's "Survey of Hinduism" is the classic standard

college

> textbook. But it also reads like a textbook (Kurt Vonnegut would

say,

> "it reads like it was translated from classical Chinese by

Philboyd

> Studge," *lol*) :-& ... And frankly, I think it's (again, like most of

> the literature) weak on its discussions of Shaktism.

>

> The bottom line is, for basic information such as you're

seeking, a

> message board like Shakti Sadhana might be more confusing

than

> helpful. Better if you first get a solid grasp of the base concepts

> from a good text such as the "Idiot's Guide", *then* come here

to

> sharpen and refine your knowledge. Otherwise, the rapid-fire

exchange

> of opinions, hairsplitting and doctrinal disagreement here

might tie

> you up in knots.

>

> Just a suggestion!

>

> DB

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the insight on the terms. I also ordered "The Complete

Idiot's Guide to Hinduism", a few hours ago. Your contributions here will

also be used for reference, as well.

 

I am relieved that I have found such a supportive group - everyone here

humbles me with their wisdom and experience in sadhana. Not everyone agrees

with everyone else, but in the end, everyone has shown their selves as

helpful.

 

 

Thanks again and blessings,

>"omprem" <omprem

>

>

> Re: Reviewing some Vedic concepts to assure

>understanding...

>Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:26:11 -0000

>

>

>"Karma: Fate by action. It is much similar to "you reap what you

>sow." This also determines what you will reincarnate as in the

>next life time. Through this, you are responsible for your own

>destiny."

>

>

>Karma means action. If there is any ego or desire in the action

>then there is a consequence to the action for the doer. These

>consequences build up. When one reincarnates, there is a

>certain amount of the stored karma that will come to fruition in

>that lifetime. So there are three types of karma:

>1. Sanchita Karma- the vast storehouse of karma

>2. Agami Karma- new karma that is incurred in this lifetime.

>3. Parabhdha Karma- karma that has been allocated to come to

>fruition in this lifetime.

>

>The individual also experiences the effects of accrued karma in

>the afterlife between rebirths.

>

>There are different views on whether one reincarnates as a

>human only, or some lower order species.

>

>

>

>"Yoga: Discipline."

>

>Yoga means union or yoke. It refers to the means through which

>one becomes aware of his/her Divine Being and also to the state

>of being aware of one's Divine Being. The Yogic methods

>involve disciplining of the mind, but the goal is to remove the

>dependence on the senses and ego as sources of information

>or filters of information through developing discrimination

>(viveka) and dispassion (dispassion).

>

>

>

>"Ego: The part of us that keeps us bonded to this world."

>

>Ego is the tendency to believe the evidence of the senses and

>emotions that one is a discrete individual separate from all else.

>It is the sense of I-ness. Ego starts from separation and leads

>into desire, competition, conflict, estrangement, and war.

>

>"Maya: This world. Most Hindus believe that it is an illusion, but I

>am guessing that most Shaktas acknowledge that it is real, but

>something that one must rise above sooner or later."

>

>Maya can be seen as illusion, realative existence, or the creative

>properties of the gunas. In any event, it is the ability that makes

>us believe the phenomenal world has real and permanent

>existence without a Divine substratum from which it arises.

>

>

>Omprem

>

>

>, "Anya Mortiis"

><angelusmortiis@h...> wrote:

> > Greetings all,

> >

> > I want to review some basic concepts before proceeding with

>deeper studies

> > (mainly concentrating on Shaktism and how people worship

>Kali), so that I

> > have a decent understanding of the mindset of the people who

>follow the

> > Vedic religions. I may not get it all on the first shot, since I am

>raised

> > in the West, but I am striving to understand...even if it means

>me just

> > idling in the basics for a long time, before I proceed with more

>advanced

> > material. Add comments or other concepts that I need to

>review at your

> > will.

> >

> > Concept of Divinity: Most Vedic individuals believe that God is

>infinite,

> > part of us and beyond us, and so forth. They acknowledge that

>God has many

> > incarnates, many forms, and that everyone has their own way

>of worshipping

> > God. A lot of westerners foreign (I say "a lot", not all) to this

>concept

> > are quick to say that Hindus worship many, when they actually

>worship one

> > but in many forms.

> >

> > Karma: Fate by action. It is much similar to "you reap what you

>sow." This

> > also determines what you will reincarnate as in the next life

>time. Through

> > this, you are responsible for your own destiny.

> >

> > Reincarnation: It will take a certain amount of deaths and

>rebirths before

> > one reaches enlightenment (I am definitely not close ).

> >

> > Sattvic, Rajastic, Tamastic: "Light" or spiritual evolution, active

>energy

> > or what keeps things in motion, and "dark" or what dissolves.

> >

> > Sadhana: Spiritual practice.

> >

> > Sanatana Dharma: "What is right for the universe", also

>another name for the

> > Vedic religions/Hinduism.

> >

> > Dharma: Tenets/path of the individual essential for their

>well-being.

> >

> > Yoga: Discipline.

> >

> > Bhakti: Devotion.

> >

> > Moksha: Liberation.

> >

> > Ego: The part of us that keeps us bonded to this world.

> >

> > Maya: This world. Most Hindus believe that it is an illusion, but

>I am

> > guessing that most Shaktas acknowledge that it is real, but

>something that

> > one must rise above sooner or later.

> >

> > Beliefs concerning Heaven and the Hells: They are states of

>mind, based on

> > one's Karma.

> >

> > Main goal: Finding enlightenment through a variety of

>disciplines; to

> > become one with God.

> >

> >

> > Okay, time for the correcting and adding, Lol.

> > This is what I came to understand through my studies so far.

> >

> >

> > Thank you and Blessings,

> > Anya

> >

> >

>

>_______________

> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download

>today - it's FREE!

> >

>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/

>01/

>

>

>

 

_______________

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