[Srividya Qualifications] - about alchohol usage ;)

[Guest guest]

93

 

I hope then that in Ur opinion Vedic rishis, Moses and Jesus Christ,

sahajija buddhist masters, Matsyendranatha, Shambhunatha and

Abhinavagupta, Maheshvarananda, Bhaskararaya, Sarvananda etc were

enough tamasic people...

I`m happy to belong to that category then ).

 

A.

 

, "omprem" <omprem> wrote:

>

> "But alchohol is used in kaula practices - this is undenyable."

>

> If so, it doesn't say much about that approach. Perhaps there is

> no much to be said.

>

> But even tamasic people need a spiritual path that is suited to

> them. So be it.

>

> Omprem

>

>

>

>

> , "Arjuna Taradasa"

> <bhagatirtha@m...> wrote:

> >

> > 93

> >

> > The case was about Sri-vidya tradition in particular. Of course

> > there are some traditions in hinduism that hold view

> expressed by U.

> > But believe me, not all.

> > Point of view of Tantas is clearly expressed in them. There is

> no need

> > to speculate around - just open the book and read. Then go

> and ask

> > representatives of tantric lineages and U find that thier views

> are

> > corresponding.

> >

> > Ur depiction of alchohol`s effect perhaps is based on Ur

> experience.

> > That is valid for U but not necessarily for everyone.

> >

> > Of course Tantras condemn pashu-pana, excessive drinking.

> Also

> > drinking for pleasure is not sadhana. But alchohol is used in

> kaula

> > practices - this is undenyable. If U accept kaula-mata at least

> as one

> > of possible ways towards Truth, U have to agree.

> >

> > A.

> >

> > , "omprem"

> <omprem> wrote:

> > >

> > > Taking alcohol is tamasic. It slows and clouds the thought,

> not to

> > > mention destroying brain cells. Perspective is lost.

> > > Discrimination and dispassion are lost.

> > >

> > > Drinking in any quantity is in the same category as

> recreational

> > > drugs. 'Information' gleaned while under the influence is

> > > misinformation and a hindrance to spiritual development. Of

> > > course, at the time such 'information' will appear as a

> revelation

> > > but it is flawed and as such to be avoided.

[Guest guest]

There are some tantrik sects where alcohol is used. They follow the point that

nothing is bad in this universe.

 

Very good point "Alcohol should be used with control" but in no time it'll

control you so better not use it at all.

 

It may seem Tamasik for the beginners but some high level sadhaks won't have any

differences in anything. Some aghoris even eat human flesh and still are in a

very high spirituality level that nothing effects them. After all, all the paths

lead to enlightment.

One can choose whatever path desirable.

That doesn't mean one can use alcohol and other "Avakshya" foods in every path.

Can anyone show me if Srividya sadhana can be performed using alcohol?

I know some ugra sadhanas like Smashaan Sadhana(tamasik version) use alcohol and

eggs for use and offerings etc...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Can you tell me how "kuladIpam" is lit using vishesharghya? myaybe they used to

add petrol?

 

IMHO All these abstinance from alchohol and meat are later introductions.

look at lalitopaakhyana. Is there not specific varieties of alcohol prescribed

for each varna? If it was taboo as some say, is it not a leter interpolation.

 

YES SriVidyopasana includes alcohol.

 

in Kaula shraadha meat and alcohol are used. This is antyeshti in Srividya

prampara. I also have seen pure brahmins of high order who are normally

non-alcohol drinkers and non-meat eaters use these in sadhana. These are not

ordinary people but people very high up in the heirarchy.

 

The prateeka (substitude) usage came much later.

 

T N <yogiman2003 wrote:

 

There are some tantrik sects where alcohol is used. They follow the point that

nothing is bad in this universe.

 

Very good point "Alcohol should be used with control" but in no time it'll

control you so better not use it at all.

 

It may seem Tamasik for the beginners but some high level sadhaks won't have any

differences in anything. Some aghoris even eat human flesh and still are in a

very high spirituality level that nothing effects them. After all, all the paths

lead to enlightment.

One can choose whatever path desirable.

That doesn't mean one can use alcohol and other "Avakshya" foods in every path.

Can anyone show me if Srividya sadhana can be performed using alcohol?

I know some ugra sadhanas like Smashaan Sadhana(tamasik version) use alcohol and

eggs for use and offerings etc...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

" It may seem Tamasik for the beginners but some high level

sadhaks won't have any differences in anything. Some aghoris

even eat human flesh and still are in a very high spirituality level

that nothing effects them. After all, all the paths lead to

enlightment. "

 

 

Here, we are back at the shit-eating level. If those practitioners

are so highly evolved they would not bother eating shit, human

flesh, drinking, or smoking dope. What would be the point?

 

Are they convincing themselves that everything is the same? If

they don't know this already and have to resort to such dramatic

lessons for themselves, then how enlightened are they? It is

more probable that they are the least enlightened and seek

these graphic demonstrations as lessons for themselves. Their

vibration is so dense that only through such methods as the

above can they hope to grapple with the teaching that all is one

and arrive at an understanding of that it so. What is next? Will

they eat glass, crockery, a car? Just how dense are they? When

will they move from the concrete to the abstract?

 

Yes, all paths lead to enlightenment but some of them take

centuries longer, tens of thousands of lifetimes longer and put

much more of a strain on the aspirant because of his/her tamas.

Not to mention the harm done to others along the aspirant's

route to enlightenment. Rather than revelling and wallowing in

one's tamasic nature, why not put more effort into rising above

tamas to at least rajas? Then sattva. Then... This would save the

aspirant much time and distress.

 

 

Omprem

 

 

 

 

 

, T N

<yogiman2003> wrote:

>

> There are some tantrik sects where alcohol is used. They

follow the point that nothing is bad in this universe.

>

> Very good point "Alcohol should be used with control" but in no

time it'll control you so better not use it at all.

>

> It may seem Tamasik for the beginners but some high level

sadhaks won't have any differences in anything. Some aghoris

even eat human flesh and still are in a very high spirituality level

that nothing effects them. After all, all the paths lead to

enlightment.

> One can choose whatever path desirable.

> That doesn't mean one can use alcohol and other "Avakshya"

foods in every path.

> Can anyone show me if Srividya sadhana can be performed

using alcohol?

> I know some ugra sadhanas like Smashaan

Sadhana(tamasik version) use alcohol and eggs for use and

offerings etc...

>

>

>

> Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

around

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

@omprem

, "omprem" <omprem> wrote:

>

> Here, we are back at the shit-eating level. If those

>practitioners are so highly evolved they would not bother eating

>shit, human flesh, drinking, or smoking dope. What would be the

>point?

>

I agree, I was just pointing to some like when Mahavtar baba gave a

piece of human faeces to Dr. Ram Ghosle who hesitatingly took it but

as soon as he put it in his mouth, that changed to a sweet. I was

just mentioning those who have that much power who can change

materials won't have any effect. I'm also against that kind of

tamasik practices involving gross things.

 

-----------read more at

http://www.lifepositive.com/Spirit/traditional-paths/kriya-

yoga/mahayogi.asp ---------------

Interestingly, Babaji's entourage of enlightened and immortal

disciples includes yoginis who are over 600 years old. Babaji

conveys the impression that he cherishes individuality and

thoughtful dissension, rather than servile obedience.

 

The sage with the immortal body has walked the length and breadth of

India and is inured to the ways of the seemingly berserk lone

ascetics that are a law unto themselves. There is no field of

knowledge that is beyond him and the transmutation of atoms is

simply an entertaining pastime. One day, Babaji took his entourage

to a crematorium. There, he picked up a skull and placing some

faeces in it, he offered them to his disciples, ordering them to

eat. All of them declined, except Dr Bhosle, who gingerly touched it

with his tongue. To his amazement, the revolting stuff had

transformed into the most delectable dish.

-------------

>

> Yes, all paths lead to enlightenment but some of them take

> centuries longer, tens of thousands of lifetimes longer and put

> much more of a strain on the aspirant because of his/her tamas.

> Not to mention the harm done to others along the aspirant's

> route to enlightenment. Rather than revelling and wallowing in

> one's tamasic nature, why not put more effort into rising above

> tamas to at least rajas? Then sattva. Then... This would save the

> aspirant much time and distress.

 

very true, I prefer satwik as well.

[Guest guest]

There is no pure Stwa; Rajas or Tamas. All are mixtures of all three. The

question is which predominates.

 

And I do not disparge any path. It may take centuries for a satwika upasaka if

THAT is not in sympathetic vibration to his nature. Same with others. Thats

where Guru is relevant in advocating the right practice compatible to one.

 

Thats why parashurama said in kalpasootra "Sarwa maarga aninda" or something to

that effect. i am not learned enough to remember the exact words.

 

omprem <omprem wrote:

 

" It may seem Tamasik for the beginners but some high level sadhaks won't have

any differences in anything. Some aghoris even eat human flesh and still are in

a very high spirituality level that nothing effects them. After all, all the

paths lead to enlightment. "

 

 

Here, we are back at the shit-eating level. If those practitioners are so

highly evolved they would not bother eating shit, human flesh, drinking, or

smoking dope. What would be the point?

 

Are they convincing themselves that everything is the same? If they don't know

this already and have to resort to such dramatic lessons for themselves, then

how enlightened are they? It is more probable that they are the least

enlightened and seek these graphic demonstrations as lessons for themselves.

Their

vibration is so dense that only through such methods as the above can they hope

to grapple with the teaching that all is one and arrive at an understanding of

that it so. What is next? Will they eat glass, crockery, a car? Just how dense

are they? When will they move from the concrete to the abstract?

 

Yes, all paths lead to enlightenment but some of them take centuries longer,

tens of thousands of lifetimes longer and put much more of a strain on the

aspirant because of his/her tamas.

Not to mention the harm done to others along the aspirant's route to

enlightenment. Rather than revelling and wallowing in one's tamasic nature,

why not put more effort into rising above tamas to at least rajas? Then sattva.

Then... This would save the aspirant much time and distress.

 

 

Omprem

 

 

 

 

 

, T N

<yogiman2003> wrote:

>

> There are some tantrik sects where alcohol is used. They

follow the point that nothing is bad in this universe.

>

> Very good point "Alcohol should be used with control" but in no

time it'll control you so better not use it at all.

>

> It may seem Tamasik for the beginners but some high level

sadhaks won't have any differences in anything. Some aghoris

even eat human flesh and still are in a very high spirituality level

that nothing effects them. After all, all the paths lead to

enlightment.

> One can choose whatever path desirable.

> That doesn't mean one can use alcohol and other "Avakshya"

foods in every path.

> Can anyone show me if Srividya sadhana can be performed

using alcohol?

> I know some ugra sadhanas like Smashaan

Sadhana(tamasik version) use alcohol and eggs for use and

offerings etc...

>

>

>

> Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

around

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

--- omprem <omprem wrote:

> " It may seem Tamasik for the beginners but some

> high level

> sadhaks won't have any differences in anything. Some

> aghoris

> even eat human flesh and still are in a very high

> spirituality level

> that nothing effects them. After all, all the paths

> lead to

> enlightment. "

>

> Here, we are back at the shit-eating level. If

> those practitioners

> are so highly evolved they would not bother eating

> shit, human

> flesh, drinking, or smoking dope. What would be the

> point?

#############################################3

Actually, you are showing your extreme ignorance of

the methodology of Aghora Tantra yet again. Once the

practice has attained its purpose, there is no need to

repeat it. I would think you would have figured this

out by now, but it is plain you have a long way to go

on resolving duality within yourself, since you

consistently fail to "get" the idea behind the

practice. Why should it take "thousands" of years to

achieve attainment? Because of failure to resolve

duality. At the level of God, there is no duality,

only unity, that's why they call it "one with God". As

long as you draw distinctions between "pure" and

"impure", as long as you have not "gone beyond" ALL of

the Three Gunas, (not just Tamas but Sat must also be

transcended)you will never "attain".

By the way, anyone who is interested in finding

out ways to use drugs, sex and alcohol in their

worship has demonstrated their ineligibility to

actually use them, because such interest demonstrates

that priorities are skewed. The idea first and

foremost is to get to God. Without this as your goal,

using worship to justify vices and indulgence will

surely lead to a great fall. Offering up everything

you have, including your vices, to make one huge leap

towards God as your goal, makes all the difference!

Just as Tulsidas was so horny for his absent wife he

used a corpse for a float across the river and a snake

for a rope to get to her room at her mother's place to

have sex with her. She ridiculed him, saying "If you

were as eager for God as you are for this temporary

body of mine, you would have attained by now!" Stung,

he left her, and on his way out he noticed the snake

and the corpse, and realized she was right! His lust

had blinded him so thoroughly he had been completely

unaware of what he was doing!(Touching corpses is

extremely polluting in Indian thought) After that his

thoughts and energies were only directed towards Rama.

Lilith M.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Do you ever actually read the posts to which you respond?

 

I have said quite clearly that one has to overcome sattva as well

as tamas and rajas. In addition, it should be clear to all by now

that I am not a dualist but a monist.

 

Perhaps being a pot-head has addled your perceptions or your

mind.

 

Omprem

 

 

, Lili Masamura

<sephirah5> wrote:

> --- omprem <omprem> wrote:

> > " It may seem Tamasik for the beginners but some

> > high level

> > sadhaks won't have any differences in anything. Some

> > aghoris

> > even eat human flesh and still are in a very high

> > spirituality level

> > that nothing effects them. After all, all the paths

> > lead to

> > enlightment. "

> >

> > Here, we are back at the shit-eating level. If

> > those practitioners

> > are so highly evolved they would not bother eating

> > shit, human

> > flesh, drinking, or smoking dope. What would be the

> > point?

> #############################################3

> Actually, you are showing your extreme ignorance of

> the methodology of Aghora Tantra yet again. Once the

> practice has attained its purpose, there is no need to

> repeat it. I would think you would have figured this

> out by now, but it is plain you have a long way to go

> on resolving duality within yourself, since you

> consistently fail to "get" the idea behind the

> practice. Why should it take "thousands" of years to

> achieve attainment? Because of failure to resolve

> duality. At the level of God, there is no duality,

> only unity, that's why they call it "one with God". As

> long as you draw distinctions between "pure" and

> "impure", as long as you have not "gone beyond" ALL of

> the Three Gunas, (not just Tamas but Sat must also be

> transcended)you will never "attain".

> By the way, anyone who is interested in finding

> out ways to use drugs, sex and alcohol in their

> worship has demonstrated their ineligibility to

> actually use them, because such interest demonstrates

> that priorities are skewed. The idea first and

> foremost is to get to God. Without this as your goal,

> using worship to justify vices and indulgence will

> surely lead to a great fall. Offering up everything

> you have, including your vices, to make one huge leap

> towards God as your goal, makes all the difference!

> Just as Tulsidas was so horny for his absent wife he

> used a corpse for a float across the river and a snake

> for a rope to get to her room at her mother's place to

> have sex with her. She ridiculed him, saying "If you

> were as eager for God as you are for this temporary

> body of mine, you would have attained by now!" Stung,

> he left her, and on his way out he noticed the snake

> and the corpse, and realized she was right! His lust

> had blinded him so thoroughly he had been completely

> unaware of what he was doing!(Touching corpses is

> extremely polluting in Indian thought) After that his

> thoughts and energies were only directed towards Rama.

> Lilith M.

>

>

>

>

> Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

around

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Do you ever actually read the posts to which you

> respond?

>

> I have said quite clearly that one has to overcome

> sattva as well

> as tamas and rajas. In addition, it should be clear

> to all by now

> that I am not a dualist but a monist.

>

> Perhaps being a pot-head has addled your perceptions

> or your

> mind.

>

> Omprem

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

Frankly, it is NOT clear. What IS clear that you know

nothing about Aghora Tantra whatever, yet you presume

to judge it, not to mention bad-mouthing Ramakrishna

Paramahansa, who you also clearly know nothing about,

and then pass judgement on him as well, while all the

time we are treated to pious mouthings about "not

being judgemental". If you are a "monist", I haven't

noticed it at any point. The only impression I

consistently receive is that of just another dualistic

Hindu wannabe/holier-than-thou goody-goody who thinks

if he knows all the Sanskrit terms for everything,

nobody will notice he is just as hypocritical and

judgemental as anyone he has denigrated here. Others

may be impressed with you; I've met your type before,

unfortunately! Maybe all that pranayama you so

assiduously push has addled YOUR brain... I am

thinking that if I was YOUR guru, I'd send you out to

the cemetery with a shit sandwich; you'd probably gain

more genuine spiritual advancement from that than all

the years spent learning the yoga jargon!

Lilith M.

--- omprem <omprem wrote:

>

>

> , Lili Masamura

>

> <sephirah5> wrote:

> > --- omprem <omprem> wrote:

> > > " It may seem Tamasik for the beginners but some

> > > high level

> > > sadhaks won't have any differences in anything.

> Some

> > > aghoris

> > > even eat human flesh and still are in a very

> high

> > > spirituality level

> > > that nothing effects them. After all, all the

> paths

> > > lead to

> > > enlightment. "

> > >

> > > Here, we are back at the shit-eating level. If

> > > those practitioners

> > > are so highly evolved they would not bother

> eating

> > > shit, human

> > > flesh, drinking, or smoking dope. What would be

> the

> > > point?

> > #############################################3

> > Actually, you are showing your extreme ignorance

> of

> > the methodology of Aghora Tantra yet again. Once

> the

> > practice has attained its purpose, there is no

> need to

> > repeat it. I would think you would have figured

> this

> > out by now, but it is plain you have a long way to

> go

> > on resolving duality within yourself, since you

> > consistently fail to "get" the idea behind the

> > practice. Why should it take "thousands" of years

> to

> > achieve attainment? Because of failure to resolve

> > duality. At the level of God, there is no duality,

> > only unity, that's why they call it "one with

> God". As

> > long as you draw distinctions between "pure" and

> > "impure", as long as you have not "gone beyond"

> ALL of

> > the Three Gunas, (not just Tamas but Sat must also

> be

> > transcended)you will never "attain".

> > By the way, anyone who is interested in

> finding

> > out ways to use drugs, sex and alcohol in their

> > worship has demonstrated their ineligibility to

> > actually use them, because such interest

> demonstrates

> > that priorities are skewed. The idea first and

> > foremost is to get to God. Without this as your

> goal,

> > using worship to justify vices and indulgence will

> > surely lead to a great fall. Offering up

> everything

> > you have, including your vices, to make one huge

> leap

> > towards God as your goal, makes all the

> difference!

> > Just as Tulsidas was so horny for his absent wife

> he

> > used a corpse for a float across the river and a

> snake

> > for a rope to get to her room at her mother's

> place to

> > have sex with her. She ridiculed him, saying "If

> you

> > were as eager for God as you are for this

> temporary

> > body of mine, you would have attained by now!"

> Stung,

> > he left her, and on his way out he noticed the

> snake

> > and the corpse, and realized she was right! His

> lust

> > had blinded him so thoroughly he had been

> completely

> > unaware of what he was doing!(Touching corpses is

> > extremely polluting in Indian thought) After that

> his

> > thoughts and energies were only directed towards

> Rama.

> > Lilith M.

> >

> >

> >

>

> >

> > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam

> protection

> around

> >

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Tsk. Tsk. Losing your cool in front of all these people. don't you

feel embarassed. Have another joint and mellow out.

 

Omprem

 

, Lili Masamura

<sephirah5> wrote:

> >

> > Do you ever actually read the posts to which you

> > respond?

> >

> > I have said quite clearly that one has to overcome

> > sattva as well

> > as tamas and rajas. In addition, it should be clear

> > to all by now

> > that I am not a dualist but a monist.

> >

> > Perhaps being a pot-head has addled your perceptions

> > or your

> > mind.

> >

> > Omprem

> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

>

> Frankly, it is NOT clear. What IS clear that you know

> nothing about Aghora Tantra whatever, yet you presume

> to judge it, not to mention bad-mouthing Ramakrishna

> Paramahansa, who you also clearly know nothing about,

> and then pass judgement on him as well, while all the

> time we are treated to pious mouthings about "not

> being judgemental". If you are a "monist", I haven't

> noticed it at any point. The only impression I

> consistently receive is that of just another dualistic

> Hindu wannabe/holier-than-thou goody-goody who thinks

> if he knows all the Sanskrit terms for everything,

> nobody will notice he is just as hypocritical and

> judgemental as anyone he has denigrated here. Others

> may be impressed with you; I've met your type before,

> unfortunately! Maybe all that pranayama you so

> assiduously push has addled YOUR brain... I am

> thinking that if I was YOUR guru, I'd send you out to

> the cemetery with a shit sandwich; you'd probably gain

> more genuine spiritual advancement from that than all

> the years spent learning the yoga jargon!

> Lilith M.

> --- omprem <omprem> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > , Lili Masamura

> >

> > <sephirah5> wrote:

> > > --- omprem <omprem> wrote:

> > > > " It may seem Tamasik for the beginners but some

> > > > high level

> > > > sadhaks won't have any differences in anything.

> > Some

> > > > aghoris

> > > > even eat human flesh and still are in a very

> > high

> > > > spirituality level

> > > > that nothing effects them. After all, all the

> > paths

> > > > lead to

> > > > enlightment. "

> > > >

> > > > Here, we are back at the shit-eating level. If

> > > > those practitioners

> > > > are so highly evolved they would not bother

> > eating

> > > > shit, human

> > > > flesh, drinking, or smoking dope. What would be

> > the

> > > > point?

> > >

#############################################3

> > > Actually, you are showing your extreme ignorance

> > of

> > > the methodology of Aghora Tantra yet again. Once

> > the

> > > practice has attained its purpose, there is no

> > need to

> > > repeat it. I would think you would have figured

> > this

> > > out by now, but it is plain you have a long way to

> > go

> > > on resolving duality within yourself, since you

> > > consistently fail to "get" the idea behind the

> > > practice. Why should it take "thousands" of years

> > to

> > > achieve attainment? Because of failure to resolve

> > > duality. At the level of God, there is no duality,

> > > only unity, that's why they call it "one with

> > God". As

> > > long as you draw distinctions between "pure" and

> > > "impure", as long as you have not "gone beyond"

> > ALL of

> > > the Three Gunas, (not just Tamas but Sat must also

> > be

> > > transcended)you will never "attain".

> > > By the way, anyone who is interested in

> > finding

> > > out ways to use drugs, sex and alcohol in their

> > > worship has demonstrated their ineligibility to

> > > actually use them, because such interest

> > demonstrates

> > > that priorities are skewed. The idea first and

> > > foremost is to get to God. Without this as your

> > goal,

> > > using worship to justify vices and indulgence will

> > > surely lead to a great fall. Offering up

> > everything

> > > you have, including your vices, to make one huge

> > leap

> > > towards God as your goal, makes all the

> > difference!

> > > Just as Tulsidas was so horny for his absent wife

> > he

> > > used a corpse for a float across the river and a

> > snake

> > > for a rope to get to her room at her mother's

> > place to

> > > have sex with her. She ridiculed him, saying "If

> > you

> > > were as eager for God as you are for this

> > temporary

> > > body of mine, you would have attained by now!"

> > Stung,

> > > he left her, and on his way out he noticed the

> > snake

> > > and the corpse, and realized she was right! His

> > lust

> > > had blinded him so thoroughly he had been

> > completely

> > > unaware of what he was doing!(Touching corpses is

> > > extremely polluting in Indian thought) After that

> > his

> > > thoughts and energies were only directed towards

> > Rama.

> > > Lilith M.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > >

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> > >

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> >

> >

> >

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>