Guest guest Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 I forgot to mention a few: What about the passion to leave the body and this material life behind? Won't a passion to leave the earthly realm, result in one being caught in it all the more? Would you say it is true, that one who ascends does so out of a state of total lack of desire, which includes lack of a desire to ascend. Wouldn't you say that even negative desires, count as desires, as in a strong desire to stay away from tamasic energies? Or a strong desire to overcome the body? Isn't it true, that only when effortlessness and freedom from ALL desire and passion are achieved, that one ascends? And not out of a kind of disdain for earthly existence, becuase disdain is a kind of desire -- a negative desire... Isn't it true that pure Bliss without desire would lead one to ascend? and that Bliss would be a fact in any situation, even the ability to be at bliss, as Jesus was, surrounded by wine-bibbers, sinners and tax-collectors? To be in a complete and uninfected state of Bliss, without any positive or negative desire? Curious, Cathie In a message dated 10/27/2004 12:00:30 AM Mountain Daylight Time, SophiasHeaven writes: > I'm trying to understand if I understand a certain part of Hindu > spirituality. > Could somebody please explain this? > Is it Desire that keeps us in this world? > If so, isn't even desire for Sattva a desire that will keep one from > "ascending" on their spiritual path. > Desire is desires, afterall. Even desire for sattva. > Is it our passions, that keep us in the endless cycle of birth and > rebirth -- even our passion for enlightenment? > If we have passion against a thing, is that not just as great a > deterrent as passion for a thing, for one who seeks enlightenment? > > Curious, > Cathie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Desire, from the yardstick of spirituality, is of two kinds: desire for God, and desire for everything else. The scriptures merely enforce us to increase our desire for God, assuring us that any other desire we have will be automatically fulfilled in time. But the reverse is not true! Desire for God takes the form of 1. yearning to know God. 2. worshipping him to solve our material problems. Desire for everything else takes the form of what we commonly call attachment, greed, lust, craving, hunger etc. All of the types of desires are passionate in nature; the difference being the gunas (interpreted as "the quality" of the desire) around them. If desire for God is of the type "yearning", that's a pure desire. The other desire for God - treating him like a genie - is not bad, but it won't take you any further spirtually. Because God, in his intesely playful nature (Lalitha Devi), will give you what you want and remain in a blissful, absorbed state without lifting you up spiritually (There can be more comment on this too, but it will take the focus away from your q). To answer your question: YES, DESIRE is needed to attain God. BECAUSE we are still separate from God, we still perceive of him as other than us. Hence the desire is needed to make the SPIRITUAL UNION between us and God. But, God's nature is pure bliss. Which is even beyond DESIRE (What is to DESIRE when you are only ONE and NO other?). And that is where we should be going - using desire for God to beyond desire, God's true nature. Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 I absolutely agree with your message. Omprem , "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> wrote: > > > Desire, from the yardstick of spirituality, is of two kinds: desire > for God, and desire for everything else. > > The scriptures merely enforce us to increase our desire for God, > assuring us that any other desire we have will be automatically > fulfilled in time. But the reverse is not true! > > Desire for God takes the form of > 1. yearning to know God. > 2. worshipping him to solve our material problems. > > Desire for everything else takes the form of what we commonly call > attachment, greed, lust, craving, hunger etc. > > All of the types of desires are passionate in nature; the difference > being the gunas (interpreted as "the quality" of the desire) around > them. > > If desire for God is of the type "yearning", that's a pure desire. > > The other desire for God - treating him like a genie - is not bad, > but it won't take you any further spirtually. Because God, in his > intesely playful nature (Lalitha Devi), will give you what you want > and remain in a blissful, absorbed state without lifting you up > spiritually (There can be more comment on this too, but it will take > the focus away from your q). > > To answer your question: YES, DESIRE is needed to attain God. > BECAUSE we are still separate from God, we still perceive of him as > other than us. Hence the desire is needed to make the SPIRITUAL > UNION between us and God. > > But, God's nature is pure bliss. Which is even beyond DESIRE (What > is to DESIRE when you are only ONE and NO other?). > > And that is where we should be going - using desire for God to > beyond desire, God's true nature. > > Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 --- manoj_menon <ammasmon wrote: > Desire, from the yardstick of spirituality, is of > two kinds: desire > for God, and desire for everything else. > Desire for God takes the form of > 1. yearning to know God. > 2. worshipping him to solve our material problems. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ I have noticed that a LOT of people tend to think of prayer as the time one submits a list of personal wants to the Creator, and little more. The concept of prayer as a time of communion with the Divine is alien to them. I ask such people, "How do you feel about a friend who only shows up on your doorstep when he needs something from you? Does it ever occur to you that God might be thinking the same thing? Have you ever remembered even to say "Thank you, God", when one of your petitions is answered? Or even just "Thank you for everything I have received today!" I try to get people to realize God as their ultimate Friend, and to treat Him/Her as such. ################################################### > > Desire for everything else takes the form of what we > commonly call > attachment, greed, lust, craving, hunger etc. > > All of the types of desires are passionate in > nature; the difference > being the gunas (interpreted as "the quality" of the > desire) around > them. > > If desire for God is of the type "yearning", that's > a pure desire.> > To answer your question: YES, DESIRE is needed to > attain God. > BECAUSE we are still separate from God, we still > perceive of him as > other than us. Hence the desire is needed to make > the SPIRITUAL > UNION between us and God. ################################################### God will give you what you want. If you desire things you will get things. If you crave sensations, you will receive sensations. If you crave knowledge of God, you must long for it with everything that you have. As long as we are in a body, we cannot help craving food, clothing, and other necessities of life, but we can reduce those external wants to the bare minimum. In fact, if you are doing it rightly, the craving for externals will drop away of its own..the desire for food, sleep, sex, will fall away like leaves. This is what happened to Ramakrishna, who, while he was going through his ordeal, would forget to dress or eat.He had simply withdrawn his attention from the outside and was completely focused on his desire for God. Vimalananda tells us that one must convert Jathara Agni ("belly fire",the cravings of material appetite), which is responsible for digestion, into Bhuta Agni (Life Fire, the fire of spiritual craving), and when one has done this, you are then becoming a fit vessel for the descent of the Divine. ########################################## > > But, God's nature is pure bliss. Which is even > beyond DESIRE (What > is to DESIRE when you are only ONE and NO other?). > > And that is where we should be going - using desire > for God to > beyond desire, God's true nature. ################################################## This is sort of a re-iteration of the Tantric maxim "one may rise by that which one falls". That is, we take troublesome desire, and harness it to a higher purpose, that of desiring only union with God. Lilith M. " Veil not your vices in virtuous words...these vices are My service!' > > Jai Ma! > _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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