Guest guest Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 But aren't some forms of desire considered "attachment" -- and attachment to worldly values keeps one from ascending? Isn't that the very reason Jesus ate with tax collectors and "wine-bibbers" -- because he had non-attachment. Isn't Desire the same as attachment? Peace, Cathie ( also a few comments below mixed in with your text as replies ) In a message dated 10/27/2004 12:15:03 AM Mountain Daylight Time, bhagatirtha writes: > It is same Desire that keeps most of people in the world but brings > several to God. As Kularnava-tantra states, one accends through the > same things through which another goes to hell. > "One man's heaven is another man's hell" > "Kama is purified by Prema; without Kama no Prema arises" (from > Sahajiyavaishnava text). > These two words I do not know yet...Kama and Prema > It is very wrong idea to get rid of Desire itself - that certainly > leads one to degradation and tamas. We have to get rid of ego but not > Desire. It is not accidental that Devi is named Kamakhya, Kamakshi and > Kameshvari . > What about attachment? Isn't attachment a form of desire which is "undesireable" for one who wishes to ascend? > In his "Gitartha-sangraha", commentary on Bhagavadgita, Sri > Abhinavagupta explains this matter that desire is not bad in itself. > And Chandamaharoshana-tantra says "na virAgAt paraM pApam" - "there is > no greater sin than to be passionless" ). > > Of course there is the famous passage in the bible about better to be hot or cold and the lukewarm will be spewed from God's mouth. Surely regarding luk ewarmness he meant apathy, which is not necessarily lack of desire. Isn't pure bliss the ultimate expression of Desire which has lost it's attachment to worldly things? > Love is the law, love under will. > A. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 In a message dated 10/27/2004 1:13:23 AM Mountain Daylight Time, nmadasamy writes: > hmmmm I would say, Desire is just like urge. Everything begins with > an urge. Without this urge there will be no beginning. When DEVI > have the urge to create she...... That is why she is called kAmakalA. > > How can you say, desire or urge is bad. If it is the spiritual, then > it should be good if it is meant for good. Reminds me of Shailputri > right? She is the light that awakens us all. She is that URGE or > DESIRE that initiate us to take this first spiritual step. > thanks nora, hugs, cathie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 In a message dated 10/27/2004 1:25:56 AM Mountain Daylight Time, bhagatirtha writes: > He will love God, love > woman and love his brothers/sisters. But he won`t be attached to > worldly stuff... > nor fearful of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 93 93 , SophiasHeaven@a... wrote: > I'm trying to understand if I understand a certain part of Hindu > spirituality. > Could somebody please explain this? It is same Desire that keeps most of people in the world but brings several to God. As Kularnava-tantra states, one accends through the same things through which another goes to hell. "Kama is purified by Prema; without Kama no Prema arises" (from Sahajiyavaishnava text). It is very wrong idea to get rid of Desire itself - that certainly leads one to degradation and tamas. We have to get rid of ego but not Desire. It is not accidental that Devi is named Kamakhya, Kamakshi and Kameshvari . In his "Gitartha-sangraha", commentary on Bhagavadgita, Sri Abhinavagupta explains this matter that desire is not bad in itself. And Chandamaharoshana-tantra says "na virAgAt paraM pApam" - "there is no greater sin than to be passionless" ). Love is the law, love under will. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 93 , SophiasHeaven@a... wrote: > But aren't some forms of desire considered "attachment" -- and attachment to worldly values keeps one from ascending? Isn't that the very reason Jesus ate with tax collectors and "wine-bibbers" -- because he had non-attachment. > > Isn't Desire the same as attachment? It is not same. Attachment is because of ego, but Desire is our svabhava. What is supposed to be done in sadhana is "shift" of desire - one turns it from objects towards the One. When desire is one with Love it is perfect. In apocryphic gospel of Mary Magdalene Jesus asks her: "Is your heart alive when U love?" "Yes, my Lord!" "Then love and never think U are sinner". Here is what Liber AL says in this concern: 1.39. The word of the Law is THELEMA. 40. Who calls us Thelemites will do no wrong, if he look but close into the word. For there are therein Three Grades, the Hermit, and the Lover, and the man of Earth. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. 41. The word of Sin is Restriction. O man! refuse not thy wife, if she will! O lover, if thou wilt, depart! There is no bond that can unite the divided but love: all else is a curse. Accursed! Accursed be it to the aeons! Hell. 42. Let it be that state of manyhood bound and loathing. So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will. 43. Do that, and no other shall say nay. 44. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect. Love is the law, love under will. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 SophiasHeaven wrote: But aren't some forms of desire considered "attachment" -- and attachment to worldly values keeps one from ascending? Isn't that the very reason Jesus ate with tax collectors and "wine-bibbers" -- because he had non-attachment.Isn't Desire the same as attachment? hmmmm I would say, Desire is just like urge. Everything begins with an urge. Without this urge there will be no beginning. When DEVI have the urge to create she...... That is why she is called kAmakalA. How can you say, desire or urge is bad. If it is the spiritual, then it should be good if it is meant for good. Reminds me of Shailputri right? She is the light that awakens us all. She is that URGE or DESIRE that initiate us to take this first spiritual step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 93 In one avahana of Devi it is said: "kAmeshvari kAmabhUte kAmuke sannidhiM kuru" . Isn`t She "Ratipriya", "Kamarupini", "Kamakala-kali"? Desire is the essense of all Existence and it arose from Godhead - where else it could have arisen from? Spiritual person has MORE desire than ordinary one. However his desire is not bound one. Yes, he won`t crave for outer things `coz he knows the taste of Reality. He knows higher rasa. He will love God, love woman and love his brothers/sisters. But he won`t be attached to worldly stuff... But if one takes up idea of getting rid of desire he returns in his level to stones. Animals have less desire than human, plants even less while stones have no at all . But are stones liberated beings? It is Desire that enable us to go to God, to accend to higher states of consciousness. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 93 , SophiasHeaven@a... wrote: > > He will love God, love > > woman and love his brothers/sisters. But he won`t be attached to > > worldly stuff... > > > > nor fearful of it. EXACTLY )) "Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains" (Liber AL 2.9). A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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