Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Kali breaks all the rules. In Hinduism feet are generally considered dirty, but it changes in the case of deities and Gurus when even their feet are considered sacred. You give pranam to your parents and Guru when you touch their feet. It is a type of salutation and symbolic of the idea that the God or person stands above you. There are different myths to explain the image of Kali. The idea of a wife standing on her husband is in sharp contrast to traditional Hindu cultural norms. He hair is unbound. She doesn't wear clothes. Basically in the iconography of Kali you have a type of perfectly depicted paradox which is a great way to portray the divine. The whole image is one of liberation. Now the traditional myth that I'm familiar with is that when Durga created Kali to slay Asuras she became drunk from their blood and lost control. Shiva layed down on the battlefield like a corpse and Kali stepped on him. The tounge gesture is one of shame at the act. But, I am sure that many of the icons themselves existed before the myths that explain them were created. I don't believe the image is one of abstracted sex. I have a lovely copy of a painting depicting Kali actually on top of Shiva in sexual union inside a cremation ground that I purchased at Tarapith. I think if someone wants to depict sex its easier to show the sex! Kali atop her husband in sexual union is different than her standing on top of him. I can see the train of thought and they both do convey the same idea. In one you have Kali dancing while Shiva is corpse like in the other you have them in sexual union. The sexual union seems a more direct way of showing their connection. Shiva is static and she is kinetic whilst both are inextricable from one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 In a message dated 10/28/2004 9:12:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sephirah5 writes: "Feet" has been used as a euphemism for women's genitals for a long time, so showing Her touching Him with Her feet is an acceptable way of depicting the unacceptable." Can you sight any references for the feet/womens genitals connection? I've only seen such ideas expressed in foot fetish magazines (not that I am looking at them, they sell them with other magazines!). Given that there are lots of people with this type of fetish I'm sure there perhaps is some type of unconscious symbolic association, but I have never really seen any references to it. The idea of feet being a symbol for genitals seems a little odd and Freudian, but it could be true. " Combining all these elements together, we have Kali-Ma, the Goddess who defies and destroys the illusions that bind us, the shackles of social restrictions and religious prohibitions, and sets us free to be who we really are." Lilith M. I love that last line you wrote, it was beautiful and I can tell it came straight from your Kali heart. William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 jai kali, hi friends...sons of kali....I have been a member for long.. and was reading all the messages posted on this group. but I am really turned down... well let me ask one question...to all u kali desiples.... "why did kaali dance on the chest of her father shiva...its not what we hindus value most rite...dancing on the chest of yor father..........." give me an answer.......if you dare..and if you believe you are the true sons of kaali... I put my body ..blood...and my soul under her feet.... jai maa kali... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 As I am given to understand it, the depiction of Kali standing on Shiva is a cleaned-up version of showing Her in viparita-maithuna with Him. "Feet" has been used as a euphemism for women's genitals for a long time, so showing Her touching Him with Her feet is an acceptable way of depicting the unacceptable. Woman-on-top is considered an "unacceptable" position for a woman to assume. A woman touching her husband in such a manner is also socially unacceptable behaviour. Wild uncontrolled behaviour on the part of women is also unacceptable. Kali's hair is also unbound, showing that She is in a state of impurity, i.e. She is menstruating. Combining all these elements together, we have Kali-Ma, the Goddess who defies and destroys the illusions that bind us, the shackles of social restrictions and religious prohibitions, and sets us free to be who we really are. Lilith M. --- krishna kumar <kichu_60002 wrote: > > > jai kali, > hi friends...sons of kali....I have been a member > for long.. > and was reading all the messages posted on this > group. > but I am really turned down... > well let me ask one question...to all u kali > desiples.... > > "why did kaali dance on the chest of her father > shiva...its not what > we hindus value most rite...dancing on the chest of > yor > father..........." > > > > give me an answer.......if you dare..and if you > believe you are the > true sons of kaali... > > > > I put my body ..blood...and my soul under her > feet.... > jai maa kali... > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 , swastik108@a... wrote: > Kali breaks all the rules. > > Now the traditional myth that I'm familiar with is that when Durga created > Kali to slay Asuras she became drunk from their blood and lost control. Shiva > layed down on the battlefield like a corpse and Kali stepped on him. The tounge > gesture is one of shame at the act. Another way of looking at this act is this way (not sure if it is a myth or any famous guru's interpretation, but I read it somewhere and it inspires me, so here it comes). This image shows that Shiva and Shakti are both inseparable. They are not co-dependent but interdependent. When (acts of) Shakti gets out of control (from a worldly viewpoint), the world that we live experiences it as catastrophes, hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes etc. What is needed to calm this down is Consciousness (Shiva), for the Cosmic to go into a Shava (corpse-like) state. By turning on the Cosmic Saakshi bhava (state of witnessing), this has the effect of calming the Cosmic Shakti. On a personal level, this metaphor can be likened to a human going berserk because of the tremendous agitations in his heart which were caused by various traumas and challenges (drinking the asuras' blood). At such times, the best that can be done is to 'calm down'. The best technique of achieving that is to go into a Saakshi Bhava, and witness the thoughts and emotions flitting thru your brain till the tumult subsides. (of course, you can take tranquilizers et al, but I was just trying to create a personal spiritual metaphor which anyway isnpires me, so don't pillory me on this one! Anyway, it can also be argued that taking tranquilizers has the effect of making you go into a forced saaskshi bhava, hence tranquilizers are only the means, saakshi bhava is the true end). Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 sons of Sri Kalima yeah that me!!! ok let me tell me from the basic fist of all the is 2 type of pic 1.Sri Kalima dance on Siva her husband 2. Sri Kalima dance on a corpse or a demon The meaning the 1st pictures is Who is Kali? Kali is the fearful and ferocious form of the mother goddess Durga. She assumed the form of a powerful goddess and became popular with the composition of the Devi Mahatmya, a text of the 5th - 6th century AD. Here she is depicted as having born from the brow of Goddess Durga during one of her battles with the evil forces. As the legend goes, in the battle, Kali was so much involved in the killing spree that she got carried away and began destroying everything in sight. To stop her, Lord Shiva threw himself under her feet. Shocked at this sight, Kali stuck out her tongue in astonishment, and put an end to her homicidal rampage. Hence the common image of Kali shows her in her mêlée mood, standing with one foot on Shiva's chest, with her enormous tongue stuck out. The Fearful Symmetry Kali is represented with perhaps the fiercest features amongst all the world's deities. She has four arms, with a sword in one hand and the head of a demon in another. The other two hands bless her worshippers, and say, "fear not"! She has two dead heads for her earrings, a string of skulls as necklace, and a girdle made of human hands as her clothing. Her tongue protrudes from her mouth, her eyes are red, and her face and breasts are sullied with blood. She stands with one foot on the thigh, and another on the chest of her husband, Shiva. Awesome Symbols! Kali's fierce form is strewed with awesome symbols. Her black complexion symbolizes her all-embracing and transcendental nature. Says the Mahanirvana Tantra: "Just as all colors disappear in black, so all names and forms disappear in her". Her nudity is primeval, fundamental, and transparent like Nature — the earth, sea, and sky. Kali is free from the illusory covering, for she is beyond the all maya or "false consciousness." Kali's garland of fifty human heads that stands for the fifty letters in the Sanskrit alphabet, symbolizes infinite knowledge. Her girdle of severed human hands signifies work and liberation from the cycle of karma. Her white teeth show her inner purity, and her red lolling tongue indicates her omnivorous nature — "her indiscriminate enjoyment of all the world's 'flavors'." Her sword is the destroyer of false consciousness and the eight bonds that bind us. Her three eyes represent past, present, and future, — the three modes of time — an attribute that lies in the very name Kali ('Kala' in Sanskrit means time). The eminent translator of Tantrik texts, Sir John Woodroffe in Garland of Letters, writes, "Kali is so called because She devours Kala (Time) and then resumes Her own dark formlessness." Kali's proximity to cremation grounds where the five elements or "Pancha Mahabhuta" come together, and all worldly attachments are absolved, again point to the cycle of birth and death. The reclined Shiva lying prostrate under the feet of Kali suggests that without the power of Kali (Shakti), Shiva is inert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 In a message dated 10/28/2004 10:39:49 PM Mountain Daylight Time, niit_83 writes: > The reclined Shiva lying prostrate under the feet of Kali suggests that > without the power of Kali (Shakti), Shiva is inert. > I've read also that sometimes Kali is depicted dancing not only on shiva but on shiva's back as he is making love to shakti. I saw an image in a book of Indian Art that depicted Kali dancing on the back of Shakti who was spent making love to Shiva. Peace, Cathie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 I have seen similar pictures, supposed to depict Kama and Rati, or sometimes Krishna and Radha, as the couple, with either Kali or Chinnamasta standing on their backs. Lilith M. --- SophiasHeaven wrote: > In a message dated 10/28/2004 10:39:49 PM Mountain > Daylight Time, > niit_83 writes: > > > The reclined Shiva lying prostrate under the feet > of Kali suggests that > > without the power of Kali (Shakti), Shiva is > inert. > > > > I've read also that sometimes Kali is depicted > dancing not only on shiva but > on shiva's back as he is making love to shakti. > > I saw an image in a book of Indian Art that depicted > Kali dancing on the back > of Shakti who was spent making love to Shiva. > Peace, > Cathie > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. http://messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Through my readings I have often come accross the qote "Without Shakti, Shiva is shava (corpse)" In this representation of Kali standing on Shiva we find a very potent and beautiful image of the Goddess giving life, the energy to create, the energy that transforms Shiva from a corpse to the Great God or Mahadev. In other representations, like Rajarajeshwari we find the Goddess 'on top' of Shiva signifiying the Goddess' superiority. , "krishna kumar" <kichu_60002> wrote: > > > jai kali, > hi friends...sons of kali....I have been a member for long.. > and was reading all the messages posted on this group. > but I am really turned down... > well let me ask one question...to all u kali desiples.... > > "why did kaali dance on the chest of her father shiva...its not what > we hindus value most rite...dancing on the chest of yor > father..........." > > > > give me an answer.......if you dare..and if you believe you are the > true sons of kaali... > > > > I put my body ..blood...and my soul under her feet.... > jai maa kali... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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