Guest guest Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Was there ever the equivalent of witchcraft perscutions in India? I've read that the Vedic Goddess Nirriti is the patroness of Hindu witches; her altar is put on the floor in the South-west corner of the house, and food offerings are pushed towards her image with the left foot! As Deepavali (the Hindu Festival of Lights) approaches, I'm reminded that this festival is considered the best time to work magic (maya-karma). Happy Halloween to the witches on this list. Celtic Samhain and Deepavali always come within a week or two of each other, and both were considered the New Year. -- Len/ Kalipadma On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:37:24 -0400 > 'Witch' Pardons Come Centuries Too Late > > Fri Oct 29, 2:45 PM ET > > > > > By CATERINE McALOON, Associated Press Writer > > LONDON - A Scottish township plans to mark Halloween by officially > pardoning 81 people -- and their cats -- executed centuries ago for > being witches. > > > > > "There'll be no witches' hats, dress-ups or that sort of thing -- it > > will be a fairly solemn occasion," Adele Conn, spokeswoman for the > baronial court that granted the pardons, said in a telephone > interview > Friday. > > Sunday's ceremony in Prestonpans will publicly declare pardons for > 81 > people executed in the 16th and 17th centuries. The pardons were > granted > under ancient feudal powers due to be abolished within weeks. > > More than 3,500 Scots, mainly women and children, and their cats > were > killed in witch hunts at a time of political intrigue and religious > excess. Many were condemned on flimsy evidence, such as owning a > black > cat or brewing homemade remedies. > > Prestonpans has recorded one of the largest numbers of witch > executions > in all of Scotland, said Conn, spokeswoman for the Barons Courts of > Prestoungrange & Dolphinstoun. > > She said Gordon Prestoungrange, the 14th baron, granted the pardons > in > the last session of his court, which is due to be abolished on Nov. > 28. > > "'Most of those persons condemned for witchcraft within the > jurisdiction > of the Baron Courts of Prestoungrange and Dolphinstoun were > convicted on > the basis of spectral evidence -- that is to say, prosecuting > witnesses > declared that they felt the presence of evil sprits or heard spirit > voices,'" the court said in its written findings. > > "Such spectral evidence is impossible to prove or to disprove; nor > is it > possible for the accused to cross-examine the spirit concerned. One > is > convicted upon the very making of such charges without any > possibility > of offering a defense." > > The court declared pardon to all those convicted, "as well as to the > > cats concerned." > > Conn said 15 local descendants of executed witches had been invited > to > attend the ceremony and an inaugural Witches' Remembrance Day, which > > will become an annual event in the township each Halloween. > > "It's too late to apologize, but it's a sort of symbolic recognition > > that these people were put to death for hysterical ignorance and > paranoia," said historian Roy Pugh, who presented evidence to the > court > in support of the pardons. > > The last execution for witchcraft in Scotland was in 1727. Such > cases > were outlawed by the Witchcraft Act of 1735, which made it a crime > only > to pretend to be a witch. > ______________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Thank you Len. I also want to wish you a Happy Divali (I heard it was on the 30th this year?). I always wondered that. I also am curious on, since many religious scholars seem to agree with this thought, if Hinduism is considered an "Eastern Paganism." (Maybe a silly question, maybe not...there are quite a few Neo-Pagans who are adopting the trend of picking Kali as their patron deity without doing the research on Hinduism first.) Of course, in the eyes of members of the Abrahamic faiths, usually anyone that is not Abrahamic is considered Pagan. *shrugs* Just food for thought. What is everyone's thoughts on the matter? Blessings, >kalipadma > > > Re: 'Witch' Pardons >Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:15:07 -0400 > > >Was there ever the equivalent of witchcraft perscutions in India? > >I've read that the Vedic Goddess Nirriti is the patroness of Hindu >witches; her altar is put on the floor in the South-west corner of the >house, and food offerings are pushed towards her image with the left >foot! > >As Deepavali (the Hindu Festival of Lights) approaches, I'm reminded that >this festival is considered the best time to work magic (maya-karma). > >Happy Halloween to the witches on this list. Celtic Samhain and >Deepavali always come within a week or two of each other, and both were >considered the New Year. > >-- Len/ Kalipadma > > >On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:37:24 -0400 > > 'Witch' Pardons Come Centuries Too Late > > > > Fri Oct 29, 2:45 PM ET > > > > > > > > > > By CATERINE McALOON, Associated Press Writer > > > > LONDON - A Scottish township plans to mark Halloween by officially > > pardoning 81 people -- and their cats -- executed centuries ago for > > being witches. > > > > > > > > > > "There'll be no witches' hats, dress-ups or that sort of thing -- it > > > > will be a fairly solemn occasion," Adele Conn, spokeswoman for the > > baronial court that granted the pardons, said in a telephone > > interview > > Friday. > > > > Sunday's ceremony in Prestonpans will publicly declare pardons for > > 81 > > people executed in the 16th and 17th centuries. The pardons were > > granted > > under ancient feudal powers due to be abolished within weeks. > > > > More than 3,500 Scots, mainly women and children, and their cats > > were > > killed in witch hunts at a time of political intrigue and religious > > excess. Many were condemned on flimsy evidence, such as owning a > > black > > cat or brewing homemade remedies. > > > > Prestonpans has recorded one of the largest numbers of witch > > executions > > in all of Scotland, said Conn, spokeswoman for the Barons Courts of > > Prestoungrange & Dolphinstoun. > > > > She said Gordon Prestoungrange, the 14th baron, granted the pardons > > in > > the last session of his court, which is due to be abolished on Nov. > > 28. > > > > "'Most of those persons condemned for witchcraft within the > > jurisdiction > > of the Baron Courts of Prestoungrange and Dolphinstoun were > > convicted on > > the basis of spectral evidence -- that is to say, prosecuting > > witnesses > > declared that they felt the presence of evil sprits or heard spirit > > voices,'" the court said in its written findings. > > > > "Such spectral evidence is impossible to prove or to disprove; nor > > is it > > possible for the accused to cross-examine the spirit concerned. One > > is > > convicted upon the very making of such charges without any > > possibility > > of offering a defense." > > > > The court declared pardon to all those convicted, "as well as to the > > > > cats concerned." > > > > Conn said 15 local descendants of executed witches had been invited > > to > > attend the ceremony and an inaugural Witches' Remembrance Day, which > > > > will become an annual event in the township each Halloween. > > > > "It's too late to apologize, but it's a sort of symbolic recognition > > > > that these people were put to death for hysterical ignorance and > > paranoia," said historian Roy Pugh, who presented evidence to the > > court > > in support of the pardons. > > > > The last execution for witchcraft in Scotland was in 1727. Such > > cases > > were outlawed by the Witchcraft Act of 1735, which made it a crime > > only > > to pretend to be a witch. > > > > >______________ >Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. >Now includes pop-up blocker! >Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! _______________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 My Hindu calendar says in 2004, Deepavali occurs on November 11th. It's lunar-derived, and always on the Amavasya (Dark of the Moon). That's why you light all the deepa lamps -- to attract Lakshmi, who is afraid of the dark! -- Len/ Kalipadma On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 03:34:08 +0000 "Anya Mortiis" <angelusmortiis writes: > > Thank you Len. I also want to wish you a Happy Divali (I heard it > was on > the 30th this year?). > > I always wondered that. I also am curious on, since many religious > scholars > seem to agree with this thought, if Hinduism is considered an > "Eastern > Paganism." (Maybe a silly question, maybe not...there are quite a > few > Neo-Pagans who are adopting the trend of picking Kali as their > patron deity > without doing the research on Hinduism first.) Of course, in the > eyes of > members of the Abrahamic faiths, usually anyone that is not > Abrahamic is > considered Pagan. *shrugs* Just food for thought. What is > everyone's > thoughts on the matter? > > Blessings, > Anya > > > >kalipadma > > > > > > Re: 'Witch' Pardons > >Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:15:07 -0400 > > > > > >Was there ever the equivalent of witchcraft perscutions in India? > > > >I've read that the Vedic Goddess Nirriti is the patroness of Hindu > >witches; her altar is put on the floor in the South-west corner of > the > >house, and food offerings are pushed towards her image with the > left > >foot! > > > >As Deepavali (the Hindu Festival of Lights) approaches, I'm > reminded that > >this festival is considered the best time to work magic > (maya-karma). > > > >Happy Halloween to the witches on this list. Celtic Samhain and > >Deepavali always come within a week or two of each other, and both > were > >considered the New Year. > > > >-- Len/ Kalipadma > > > > > >On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:37:24 -0400 > > > 'Witch' Pardons Come Centuries Too Late > > > > > > Fri Oct 29, 2:45 PM ET > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By CATERINE McALOON, Associated Press Writer > > > > > > LONDON - A Scottish township plans to mark Halloween by > officially > > > pardoning 81 people -- and their cats -- executed centuries ago > for > > > being witches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "There'll be no witches' hats, dress-ups or that sort of thing > -- it > > > > > > will be a fairly solemn occasion," Adele Conn, spokeswoman for > the > > > baronial court that granted the pardons, said in a telephone > > > interview > > > Friday. > > > > > > Sunday's ceremony in Prestonpans will publicly declare pardons > for > > > 81 > > > people executed in the 16th and 17th centuries. The pardons were > > > granted > > > under ancient feudal powers due to be abolished within weeks. > > > > > > More than 3,500 Scots, mainly women and children, and their cats > > > were > > > killed in witch hunts at a time of political intrigue and > religious > > > excess. Many were condemned on flimsy evidence, such as owning a > > > black > > > cat or brewing homemade remedies. > > > > > > Prestonpans has recorded one of the largest numbers of witch > > > executions > > > in all of Scotland, said Conn, spokeswoman for the Barons Courts > of > > > Prestoungrange & Dolphinstoun. > > > > > > She said Gordon Prestoungrange, the 14th baron, granted the > pardons > > > in > > > the last session of his court, which is due to be abolished on > Nov. > > > 28. > > > > > > "'Most of those persons condemned for witchcraft within the > > > jurisdiction > > > of the Baron Courts of Prestoungrange and Dolphinstoun were > > > convicted on > > > the basis of spectral evidence -- that is to say, prosecuting > > > witnesses > > > declared that they felt the presence of evil sprits or heard > spirit > > > voices,'" the court said in its written findings. > > > > > > "Such spectral evidence is impossible to prove or to disprove; > nor > > > is it > > > possible for the accused to cross-examine the spirit concerned. > One > > > is > > > convicted upon the very making of such charges without any > > > possibility > > > of offering a defense." > > > > > > The court declared pardon to all those convicted, "as well as to > the > > > > > > cats concerned." > > > > > > Conn said 15 local descendants of executed witches had been > invited > > > to > > > attend the ceremony and an inaugural Witches' Remembrance Day, > which > > > > > > will become an annual event in the township each Halloween. > > > > > > "It's too late to apologize, but it's a sort of symbolic > recognition > > > > > > that these people were put to death for hysterical ignorance and > > > paranoia," said historian Roy Pugh, who presented evidence to > the > > > court > > > in support of the pardons. > > > > > > The last execution for witchcraft in Scotland was in 1727. Such > > > cases > > > were outlawed by the Witchcraft Act of 1735, which made it a > crime > > > only > > > to pretend to be a witch. > > > > > > > > >______________ > >Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > >Now includes pop-up blocker! > >Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up > today! > > _______________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's > FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Companion Toolbar. > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click./L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM > --~-> > > > > Links > > > > > > > > ______________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Hi Anya, Paganism is a term that originally meant country dweller. In Europe when Christianity was taking over, and tightening it's grip on the populace in big cities, the country dwellers were often the last to convert, clinging with their hearts to their old ways and traditions. Hence it came to be that Pagan is a word that refers to people who do not worship the "proper" "civilized" religions of the city people (ie. the Christians ). I think you are right, that according to narrow minded Christians, everything else but narrow minded Christians are either considered Pagans, or worse, Satanists. The big joke on all of this, is that if you look at it through certain historical facts, Christianity is also a pagan religion, by virtue of having so many elements borrowed from Pagan relgion. In fact, Christianity comes from Judaism and Jewish spirituality is similar in many ways to "paganism" The Jesus Mysteries: was Jesus a Pagan God, by Freke and Gandy, is a good book to read to help one understand how Christianity is a pagan religion. For one thing, the central Christian Ritual involves drinking the symbolic blood of Christ. Doesn't that sound just a little bit "pagan" to you? It seems to me in this day and age, that word is slowly losing it's originally intended divisive power over the masses. Blessings of Shakti, Cathie In a message dated 10/29/2004 9:35:26 PM Mountain Daylight Time, angelusmortiis writes: > Thank you Len. I also want to wish you a Happy Divali (I heard it was on > the 30th this year?). > > I always wondered that. I also am curious on, since many religious scholars > > seem to agree with this thought, if Hinduism is considered an "Eastern > Paganism." (Maybe a silly question, maybe not...there are quite a few > Neo-Pagans who are adopting the trend of picking Kali as their patron deity > without doing the research on Hinduism first.) Of course, in the eyes of > members of the Abrahamic faiths, usually anyone that is not Abrahamic is > considered Pagan. *shrugs* Just food for thought. What is everyone's > thoughts on the matter? > > Blessings, > Anya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Well colour me wrong! Hehe. Alright, I will be sure to tell you a Merry Divali near the 11th of November. *smiles* Blessings, >kalipadma > > >Re: Re: 'Witch' Pardons >Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:02:47 -0400 > > >My Hindu calendar says in 2004, Deepavali occurs on November 11th. It's >lunar-derived, and always on the Amavasya (Dark of the Moon). That's why >you light all the deepa lamps -- to attract Lakshmi, who is afraid of the >dark! > >-- Len/ Kalipadma > > >On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 03:34:08 +0000 "Anya Mortiis" ><angelusmortiis writes: > > > > Thank you Len. I also want to wish you a Happy Divali (I heard it > > was on > > the 30th this year?). > > > > I always wondered that. I also am curious on, since many religious > > scholars > > seem to agree with this thought, if Hinduism is considered an > > "Eastern > > Paganism." (Maybe a silly question, maybe not...there are quite a > > few > > Neo-Pagans who are adopting the trend of picking Kali as their > > patron deity > > without doing the research on Hinduism first.) Of course, in the > > eyes of > > members of the Abrahamic faiths, usually anyone that is not > > Abrahamic is > > considered Pagan. *shrugs* Just food for thought. What is > > everyone's > > thoughts on the matter? > > > > Blessings, > > Anya > > > > > > >kalipadma > > > > > > > > > Re: 'Witch' Pardons > > >Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:15:07 -0400 > > > > > > > > >Was there ever the equivalent of witchcraft perscutions in India? > > > > > >I've read that the Vedic Goddess Nirriti is the patroness of Hindu > > >witches; her altar is put on the floor in the South-west corner of > > the > > >house, and food offerings are pushed towards her image with the > > left > > >foot! > > > > > >As Deepavali (the Hindu Festival of Lights) approaches, I'm > > reminded that > > >this festival is considered the best time to work magic > > (maya-karma). > > > > > >Happy Halloween to the witches on this list. Celtic Samhain and > > >Deepavali always come within a week or two of each other, and both > > were > > >considered the New Year. > > > > > >-- Len/ Kalipadma > > > > > > > > >On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:37:24 -0400 > > > > 'Witch' Pardons Come Centuries Too Late > > > > > > > > Fri Oct 29, 2:45 PM ET > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By CATERINE McALOON, Associated Press Writer > > > > > > > > LONDON - A Scottish township plans to mark Halloween by > > officially > > > > pardoning 81 people -- and their cats -- executed centuries ago > > for > > > > being witches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "There'll be no witches' hats, dress-ups or that sort of thing > > -- it > > > > > > > > will be a fairly solemn occasion," Adele Conn, spokeswoman for > > the > > > > baronial court that granted the pardons, said in a telephone > > > > interview > > > > Friday. > > > > > > > > Sunday's ceremony in Prestonpans will publicly declare pardons > > for > > > > 81 > > > > people executed in the 16th and 17th centuries. The pardons were > > > > granted > > > > under ancient feudal powers due to be abolished within weeks. > > > > > > > > More than 3,500 Scots, mainly women and children, and their cats > > > > were > > > > killed in witch hunts at a time of political intrigue and > > religious > > > > excess. Many were condemned on flimsy evidence, such as owning a > > > > black > > > > cat or brewing homemade remedies. > > > > > > > > Prestonpans has recorded one of the largest numbers of witch > > > > executions > > > > in all of Scotland, said Conn, spokeswoman for the Barons Courts > > of > > > > Prestoungrange & Dolphinstoun. > > > > > > > > She said Gordon Prestoungrange, the 14th baron, granted the > > pardons > > > > in > > > > the last session of his court, which is due to be abolished on > > Nov. > > > > 28. > > > > > > > > "'Most of those persons condemned for witchcraft within the > > > > jurisdiction > > > > of the Baron Courts of Prestoungrange and Dolphinstoun were > > > > convicted on > > > > the basis of spectral evidence -- that is to say, prosecuting > > > > witnesses > > > > declared that they felt the presence of evil sprits or heard > > spirit > > > > voices,'" the court said in its written findings. > > > > > > > > "Such spectral evidence is impossible to prove or to disprove; > > nor > > > > is it > > > > possible for the accused to cross-examine the spirit concerned. > > One > > > > is > > > > convicted upon the very making of such charges without any > > > > possibility > > > > of offering a defense." > > > > > > > > The court declared pardon to all those convicted, "as well as to > > the > > > > > > > > cats concerned." > > > > > > > > Conn said 15 local descendants of executed witches had been > > invited > > > > to > > > > attend the ceremony and an inaugural Witches' Remembrance Day, > > which > > > > > > > > will become an annual event in the township each Halloween. > > > > > > > > "It's too late to apologize, but it's a sort of symbolic > > recognition > > > > > > > > that these people were put to death for hysterical ignorance and > > > > paranoia," said historian Roy Pugh, who presented evidence to > > the > > > > court > > > > in support of the pardons. > > > > > > > > The last execution for witchcraft in Scotland was in 1727. Such > > > > cases > > > > were outlawed by the Witchcraft Act of 1735, which made it a > > crime > > > > only > > > > to pretend to be a witch. > > > > > > > > > > > > >______________ > > >Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > > >Now includes pop-up blocker! > > >Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up > > today! > > > > _______________ > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's > > FREE! > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >______________ >Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. >Now includes pop-up blocker! >Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! _______________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 *nods* I figured that. When I was a "weird Catholic" over two years ago, I actually did A LOT of ChristoPaganism research. I still consider it valid, and in some ways, I think everyone has a bit of "Christianity" in them if they follow the two main rules Jesus gave people (the love God and love thy neighbor thing). Then again, I probably think too much on it. The politics surrounding the whole ChristoPagan deal gets very frustrating, if you ask me - I prefer the unity in diversity deal over the diversity over diversity mindset that a lot of people have. Blessings, >SophiasHeaven > > >Re: Re: 'Witch' Pardons >Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:53:38 EDT > >Hi Anya, > Paganism is a term that originally meant country dweller. In >Europe >when Christianity was taking over, and tightening it's grip on the populace >in >big cities, the country dwellers were often the last to convert, clinging >with >their hearts to their old ways and traditions. Hence it came to be that >Pagan is a word that refers to people who do not worship the "proper" >"civilized" >religions of the city people (ie. the Christians ). > I think you are right, that according to narrow minded Christians, >everything else but narrow minded Christians are either considered Pagans, >or >worse, Satanists. > The big joke on all of this, is that if you look at it through >certain >historical facts, Christianity is also a pagan religion, by virtue of >having >so many elements borrowed from Pagan relgion. In fact, Christianity comes >from Judaism and Jewish spirituality is similar in many ways to "paganism" > The Jesus Mysteries: was Jesus a Pagan God, by Freke and Gandy, is >a >good book to read to help one understand how Christianity is a pagan >religion. > For one thing, the central Christian Ritual involves drinking the >symbolic blood of Christ. Doesn't that sound just a little bit "pagan" to >you? > It seems to me in this day and age, that word is slowly losing it's >originally intended divisive power over the masses. > >Blessings of Shakti, >Cathie > >In a message dated 10/29/2004 9:35:26 PM Mountain Daylight Time, >angelusmortiis writes: > > > Thank you Len. I also want to wish you a Happy Divali (I heard it was >on > > the 30th this year?). > > > > I always wondered that. I also am curious on, since many religious >scholars > > > > seem to agree with this thought, if Hinduism is considered an "Eastern > > Paganism." (Maybe a silly question, maybe not...there are quite a few > > Neo-Pagans who are adopting the trend of picking Kali as their patron >deity > > without doing the research on Hinduism first.) Of course, in the eyes >of > > members of the Abrahamic faiths, usually anyone that is not Abrahamic is > > considered Pagan. *shrugs* Just food for thought. What is everyone's > > thoughts on the matter? > > > > Blessings, > > Anya > > > > > _______________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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