Guest guest Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Namaste I would suggest that Skanda certainly is worshipped by all tantrics. Please see http://www.geocities.com/sarabhanga/skanda.html to better understand the conception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 93 , "Sarabhanga Giri" > I would suggest that Skanda certainly is worshipped by all tantrics. > Please see http://www.geocities.com/sarabhanga/skanda.html to better > understand the conception. Firstly, the point was that Skanda is not so much important in vama- tantric tradition as it was stated by Jessica. I didn't tell Skanda is not worshipped at all. Secondly, i can state that NOT BY ALL - assure U . At least U won't argue that vaishnavas do not worship Skanda? Many shaktas do not as well. Information on Ur webpage is correct and known. But it doesn't prove some kind of overimportance of Skanda-cult in tantrism in general. If to judge form scriptures his cult is of rather secondary importance. For instance, Shakta-pramoda (one of the basic books on shakta ritual) do not provide any info on Skanda-worship, although gives paddhatis for Vishnu, Surya and Ganesha (after 10 Mahavidyas and Durga). Philosophical interpretations of figure of Skanda are ok; i was ONLY talking about practical side - sadhana and cult. And in fact we do not find many references to his worship in kaula scriptures. Or U can argue on this? Then i would like to see quotations in support of his importance in kula ritual. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 Namaste Arjuna, Jessica wrote that lot of tantrics into yoga and vamamarga worship Skanda. And I would yet suggest that that this is an underestimate! The members of this group have provided various names for the divine concept of Skanda Karttikeya, and there are more. Shiva is very well known, but would anyone claim, for example, that one who worships Mahakala, Ishvara, Bhairava, or Rudra by any other name, was not concerned with Shiva? Shaktas respect Skanda as either the son or the father of their prime Devi. And those who fully grasp the concept of Trinity or Trimurti should understand that Vishnu (by whatever name) is in essence the Seed of the Creator, the manifest Seed of Creation itself ~ i.e Skanda. After all the mundane talk of Kula ritual and human seed, would you deny that Kaulas have any devotion to the divine Seed of Lord Shiva? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 "The seed of the Creator." You are implying that Vishnu is the child of Shiva, and I'm wondering if you can back this up with a scriptural reference. (Technically, Brahma is the Creator. Shiva is the Re-Creator!) All my (admittedly limited) readings state that Vishnu is related to the Devi, and hence brother-in-law to Shiva. Many temple sculptures show Vishnu giving away the bride at the wedding of Shiva and Parvati. Even in places where they say Ganesha was created from an <amsha> (fragment) of baby Krishna, given to Parvati, it is plain that this Krishna/Ganesha has nothing to do with Shiva's seed. Skanda IS the offspring of Shiva's seed. He is also the child of many mothers -- Agni, Ganga, Vanadurga, and the seven Matrikas all claimed him, before he was finally awarded to Parvati. As a member of Shiva's family, I suspect he is welcome in the courts of Lalita, even if he is not explicitly invoked in Shri Vidya ritual. Aren't there Tantras where Skanda is supposed to be hiding in the Himalayan cave where Shiva is instructing Parvati? And it is Skanda who passes this secret mystic knowledge to his mortal worshippers? -- Len/ Kalipadma On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:58:20 -0000 "Sarabhanga Giri" <sarabhanga writes: > > > > Namaste Arjuna, > > Jessica wrote that lot of tantrics into yoga and vamamarga worship > Skanda. And I would yet suggest that that this is an underestimate! > > The members of this group have provided various names for the divine > > concept of Skanda Karttikeya, and there are more. Shiva is very > well > known, but would anyone claim, for example, that one who worships > Mahakala, Ishvara, Bhairava, or Rudra by any other name, was not > concerned with Shiva? > > Shaktas respect Skanda as either the son or the father of their > prime > Devi. And those who fully grasp the concept of Trinity or Trimurti > should understand that Vishnu (by whatever name) is in essence the > Seed of the Creator, the manifest Seed of Creation itself ~ i.e > Skanda. > > After all the mundane talk of Kula ritual and human seed, would you > deny that Kaulas have any devotion to the divine Seed of Lord Shiva? > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > $9.95 domain names from . Register anything. > http://us.click./J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM > --~-> > > > > Links > > > > > > > > ______________ Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 93 , kalipadma@j... wrote: You are implying that Vishnu is the child of > Shiva, and I'm wondering if you can back this up with a scriptural > reference. (Technically, Brahma is the Creator. Shiva is the > Re-Creator!) >From the shakta and shaiva point of view, all pauranika trimurti emanated from Lord Shiva. In this sense we can say Vishnu is His son or His aspect or emanation. According to shaiva theology, the Creator - the True One - is Lord Shiva, Adi-natha or Shambhu. Brahma represents just one of His 5 powers, shaktis. Besides, Kalivilasa-tantra concideres Krishna to be son of Kalika, although more commonly he is identified with Her. > Even in places where they say Ganesha was created from an <amsha> > (fragment) of baby Krishna, given to Parvati, it is plain that this > Krishna/Ganesha has nothing to do with Shiva's seed. Ganesha doesn't come from seed 'coz Ganesha represents Devi's yoni. > Skanda IS the offspring of Shiva's seed. He is also the child of many mothers -- Agni, Ganga, Vanadurga, and the seven Matrikas all claimed him, before he was finally awarded to Parvati. Actually Ganga is concidered to be the second wife of Shiva (that is same Parvati from another side ), while Agni again stands for yoni of Devi. BTW, esoterically Skanda is viewed as personification of arohana- shakti (signified by his vel and by linga) - which manifests in three gunas as anger etc (tamas), lust and virility (rajas), excitement of feeling, rasa and spiritual upliftment (sattva). A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Ohhhh, there are any NUMBER of origin legends on ANY major Deity in the Hindu pantheon, and some of them have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other...it is more like a "choose your favourite myth!" Just take a look at "Shiva: The Erotic Ascetic" (Wendy O'Flaherty) and find out how many zillion versions of the origin of Skandha there are, there! There is NO SUCH THING as THE single definitive origin myth for any of the Indian Deities, it seems..there is just "those that are best-known" and those that are less well-known! Lilith M. --- kalipadma wrote: > > "The seed of the Creator." You are implying that > Vishnu is the child of > Shiva, and I'm wondering if you can back this up > with a scriptural > reference. (Technically, Brahma is the Creator. > Shiva is the > Re-Creator!) > > All my (admittedly limited) readings state that > Vishnu is related to the > Devi, and hence brother-in-law to Shiva. Many > temple sculptures show > Vishnu giving away the bride at the wedding of Shiva > and Parvati. > > Even in places where they say Ganesha was created > from an <amsha> > (fragment) of baby Krishna, given to Parvati, it is > plain that this > Krishna/Ganesha has nothing to do with Shiva's seed. > > Skanda IS the offspring of Shiva's seed. He is also > the child of many > mothers -- Agni, Ganga, Vanadurga, and the seven > Matrikas all claimed > him, before he was finally awarded to Parvati. As a > member of Shiva's > family, I suspect he is welcome in the courts of > Lalita, even if he is > not explicitly invoked in Shri Vidya ritual. > > Aren't there Tantras where Skanda is supposed to be > hiding in the > Himalayan cave where Shiva is instructing Parvati? > And it is Skanda who > passes this secret mystic knowledge to his mortal > worshippers? > > -- Len/ Kalipadma The all-new My - Get yours free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 When one considers that Skandha is also Subraminyam, Murugan, and Surya, one can see that to speak of Skandha is to speak of many things, as if to say, "The Upanishads." - Lili Masamura Monday, November 22, 2004 2:44 PM Re: Skanda Ohhhh, there are any NUMBER of origin legends on ANY major Deity in the Hindu pantheon, and some of them have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other...it is more like a "choose your favourite myth!" Just take a look at "Shiva: The Erotic Ascetic" (Wendy O'Flaherty) and find out how many zillion versions of the origin of Skandha there are, there! There is NO SUCH THING as THE single definitive origin myth for any of the Indian Deities, it seems..there is just "those that are best-known" and those that are less well-known! Lilith M. --- kalipadma wrote: > > "The seed of the Creator." You are implying that > Vishnu is the child of > Shiva, and I'm wondering if you can back this up > with a scriptural > reference. (Technically, Brahma is the Creator. > Shiva is the > Re-Creator!) > > All my (admittedly limited) readings state that > Vishnu is related to the > Devi, and hence brother-in-law to Shiva. Many > temple sculptures show > Vishnu giving away the bride at the wedding of Shiva > and Parvati. > > Even in places where they say Ganesha was created > from an <amsha> > (fragment) of baby Krishna, given to Parvati, it is > plain that this > Krishna/Ganesha has nothing to do with Shiva's seed. > > Skanda IS the offspring of Shiva's seed. He is also > the child of many > mothers -- Agni, Ganga, Vanadurga, and the seven > Matrikas all claimed > him, before he was finally awarded to Parvati. As a > member of Shiva's > family, I suspect he is welcome in the courts of > Lalita, even if he is > not explicitly invoked in Shri Vidya ritual. > > Aren't there Tantras where Skanda is supposed to be > hiding in the > Himalayan cave where Shiva is instructing Parvati? > And it is Skanda who > passes this secret mystic knowledge to his mortal > worshippers? > > -- Len/ Kalipadma The all-new My - Get yours free! Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada Links / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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