Guest guest Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 , "jessica_malone1000" > Not wanting to sound so pure, i would have found a statement vasishta enjoying with Tara Which text says that Vasishtha enjoyed with Tara??? > after smoking or using herbs a little more from practical experience. Drinking dulls ones senses, it is universally known. "Universally" is to whom? I know one guy here in the list who is afraid that his senses become dull if he drinks LOL, but this case is not "universal". Significantly, Tantras generally keep away from "smoking" etc but insist on alcohol usage. There are very few exceptions which are doubtful in authority besides. BTW every account of Vasishtha's story tells about alcohol and none as i know about drugs. > > Before i answer your question in entirety, i believe Kaula view itself is distorted. Believes can be whatever, but they are not necessarily connected to the truth. To judge kaula views U have to know kaula doctrine at least in theory and to certain degree in practice. Otherwise there is no base for judgement. >Anyone who has practiced ahimsa for sometime would know that these kind of arguments are the product of someone who does not have the willpower to even undergo the simplest of spiritual disciplines. )))) >Anyway, pratyabijna is universal, it does not limit itself to kashmir. What is the base of this statement? Any proofs? As i know both adepts and scientists never doubt the fact that Pratyabhijna is specifically kashmiri system . >Kaulas are people who are from kulas, not people who practice what the modern tantrics have written about Kaulachara. Yes for the first. Then, are U from Kula? It depends - to the second. "Modern" is not a synonim to "useless" or "fake" although too much profanation is there in our days due to business-gurus. ) A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 > , "jessica_malone1000" > > > Not wanting to sound so pure, i would have found a statement > vasishta enjoying with Tara > > Which text says that Vasishtha enjoyed with Tara??? Some Mahachinachara tantra or something like that :-) > not "universal". Significantly, Tantras generally keep away from > "smoking" etc but insist on alcohol usage. There are very few > exceptions which are doubtful in authority besides. > BTW every account of Vasishtha's story tells about alcohol and none as > i know about drugs. Yes, i meant the mind is more gross as opposed to refined. Have you observed people after they drink. Even the manner in which they eat changes, anything that is chewable would be tasty for them after a few pegs. It is the samething with sex. > What is the base of this statement? Any proofs? > As i know both adepts and scientists never doubt the fact that > Pratyabhijna is specifically kashmiri system . The recognition of Isvara is universal, not limited to kashmiri people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 , "jessica_malone1000" > > > > Which text says that Vasishtha enjoyed with Tara??? > > Some Mahachinachara tantra or something like that :-) I doesn't ). I have all three accounts of the story - Rudra Yamala's, Mahachinacharakrama's and Brahma-yamala's. Neither of 'em says this thing. > Yes, i meant the mind is more gross as opposed to refined. Have > you observed people after they drink. Even the manner in which they > eat changes, anything that is chewable would be tasty for them after a few pegs. It is the samething with sex. Truely speaking both alcohol and drugs have different effect on different people. However, tantric tradition in general recognized importance of alcohol and almost ignored drugs - i think there must be some reason (and not criminal one as now LOL, in India there was no problem to have ganja or hashish). > > Pratyabhijna is specifically kashmiri system . > > The recognition of Isvara is universal, not limited to kashmiri people. The Pratyabhijna philosophy is a distinct system limited to Kashmir. It is improper to say that it is universal. Of course, every tantric system recognizes God, but METHODOLOGY differs. Pratyabhijna is too abstract unlike most other tantric systems. Perhaps it might have been mere metaphysical darshana from it's very beginning and not an independant school of mysticism. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 *** "Universally" is to whom? I know one guy here in the list who is afraid that his senses become dull if he drinks LOL, but this case is not "universal"**** It is a fact, universally speaking, that drinking alcohol dulls the senses, dulls the reaction times and destroys brain cells. It is also a fact that frinking alcohel renders one tamasic and therefore unfit for spiritual evolution. It does not matter whether you are in India, North America or Antarctica, or whether you are an atheist, a vedantin, or a kaula, drinking has these negatives effects. But, hey, if you want to destroy more brain cells and sink deeper into your morass, then be my guest. I see that you have not gotten past attempting to ridicule via "LOL" in an effort to hide your personal insecurity and the speciousness of your argument. Omprem , "Arjuna Taradasa" <bhagatirtha@m...> wrote: > > , "jessica_malone1000" > > > Not wanting to sound so pure, i would have found a statement > vasishta enjoying with Tara > > Which text says that Vasishtha enjoyed with Tara??? > > > after smoking or using herbs a little more from practical > experience. Drinking dulls ones senses, it is universally known. > > "Universally" is to whom? I know one guy here in the list who is > afraid that his senses become dull if he drinks LOL, but this case is > not "universal". Significantly, Tantras generally keep away from > "smoking" etc but insist on alcohol usage. There are very few > exceptions which are doubtful in authority besides. > BTW every account of Vasishtha's story tells about alcohol and none as > i know about drugs. > > > > Before i answer your question in entirety, i believe Kaula view > itself is distorted. > > Believes can be whatever, but they are not necessarily connected to > the truth. To judge kaula views U have to know kaula doctrine at least > in theory and to certain degree in practice. Otherwise there is no > base for judgement. > > >Anyone who has practiced ahimsa for sometime would know that these > kind of arguments are the product of someone who does not have the > willpower to even undergo the simplest of spiritual disciplines. > > )))) > > >Anyway, pratyabijna is universal, it does not limit itself to > kashmir. > > What is the base of this statement? Any proofs? > As i know both adepts and scientists never doubt the fact that > Pratyabhijna is specifically kashmiri system . > > >Kaulas are people who are from kulas, not people who practice what > the modern tantrics have written about Kaulachara. > > Yes for the first. Then, are U from Kula? > It depends - to the second. "Modern" is not a synonim to "useless" or > "fake" although too much profanation is there in our days due to > business-gurus. > > ) > > A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 I have taken alcohol. When i was twenties this was frequent in parties, friends gatherings. After starting a Yogic lifestyle this was stopped, yet there were periods in which i would take it once in a while. And i could feel how these substances induced anger, negativity etc in me. Its the same things with meat, it increases base sexual drives, much like ones body want to excrete something out. I used to think that drinks like beer though having alcohol does not have any dead things in it. And one day when i was having, as if to teach me a worm came from nowhere and sat on my knee. Thats what it is, all this wines and beer, pus and excretion of anything that grows in the fermented world. Dont moderate this post, this is true to each word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 To think that any drug or smoke or substance can block God from consciousness is really stupid, when God and consciousness are one. - Arjuna Taradasa Sunday, November 21, 2004 12:02 PM Re: to Jessica , "jessica_malone1000" > Not wanting to sound so pure, i would have found a statement vasishta enjoying with Tara Which text says that Vasishtha enjoyed with Tara??? > after smoking or using herbs a little more from practical experience. Drinking dulls ones senses, it is universally known. "Universally" is to whom? I know one guy here in the list who is afraid that his senses become dull if he drinks LOL, but this case is not "universal". Significantly, Tantras generally keep away from "smoking" etc but insist on alcohol usage. There are very few exceptions which are doubtful in authority besides. BTW every account of Vasishtha's story tells about alcohol and none as i know about drugs. > > Before i answer your question in entirety, i believe Kaula view itself is distorted. Believes can be whatever, but they are not necessarily connected to the truth. To judge kaula views U have to know kaula doctrine at least in theory and to certain degree in practice. Otherwise there is no base for judgement. >Anyone who has practiced ahimsa for sometime would know that these kind of arguments are the product of someone who does not have the willpower to even undergo the simplest of spiritual disciplines. )))) >Anyway, pratyabijna is universal, it does not limit itself to kashmir. What is the base of this statement? Any proofs? As i know both adepts and scientists never doubt the fact that Pratyabhijna is specifically kashmiri system . >Kaulas are people who are from kulas, not people who practice what the modern tantrics have written about Kaulachara. Yes for the first. Then, are U from Kula? It depends - to the second. "Modern" is not a synonim to "useless" or "fake" although too much profanation is there in our days due to business-gurus. ) A. / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 I couldn't find the relevant text, but I recall reading that Drinking is permitted during Left-Hand rites, but one is expected to moderate one's intake so that it enhances the experience; to drink to where one is starting to show the negative effects of the alcohol is considered "beastly". Just as one is expected to control one's lusts so the act of sex may be raised to a higher level than that of mere animal gratification, one should also master the intoxication so that it serves a higher function of enhancing and expanding one's faculties of appreciation rather than obliterating them. In this way, one may rise by that which causes most to "fall". Lilith M. --- omprem <omprem wrote: > > *** "Universally" is to whom? I know one guy here in > the list who > is afraid that his senses become dull if he drinks > LOL, but this > case is not "universal"**** > > > It is a fact, universally speaking, that drinking > alcohol dulls the > senses, dulls the reaction times and destroys brain > cells. It is > also a fact that frinking alcohel renders one > tamasic and > therefore unfit for spiritual evolution. It does not > matter whether > you are in India, North America or Antarctica, or > whether you are > an atheist, a vedantin, or a kaula, drinking has > these negatives > effects. > > But, hey, if you want to destroy more brain cells > and sink deeper > into your morass, then be my guest. > > I see that you have not gotten past attempting to > ridicule via > "LOL" in an effort to hide your personal insecurity > and the > speciousness of your argument. > > Omprem > > > , "Arjuna > Taradasa" > <bhagatirtha@m...> wrote: > > > > , > "jessica_malone1000" > > > > > Not wanting to sound so pure, i would have found > a > statement > > vasishta enjoying with Tara > > > > Which text says that Vasishtha enjoyed with > Tara??? > > > > > after smoking or using herbs a little more from > practical > > experience. Drinking dulls ones senses, it is > universally > known. Meet the all-new My - Try it today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 You are absolutely right: alcohol is the "waste product" of the yeast cells that have digested the sugar in whatever it is that was used to make the liquor. Beer uses sprouted grains of barley;they are then toasted to "malt" them, then they are mixed with water, and yeast is added, then the mix is fermented. Wine is grape juice with yeast added. Eventually fermentation ceases when the yeast drown in their own waste product (alcohol) Various other procedures of refinement are carried out to produce whiskey, brandy, etc., but all liquors of whatever type are essentially produced the same way. The suffering of the yeast is certainly imprinted in the alcohol. I believe I mentioned sometime back that the Indians say that alcohol carries three curses with it, that of Brahma the Creator, who was humiliated when he got drunk and sexually approached his own daughter under the influence right in front of all the gods, of Shukracharya (the planet Venus) and preceptor of the asuras, when he drank wine and was forced to reveal the Sanjivani Vidya as a result, and that of Shri Krishna, whose brother Balarama died of alcoholism. Lilith M. --- jessica_malone1000 <jessica_malone1000 wrote: > > I have taken alcohol. When i was twenties this was > frequent in > parties, friends gatherings. After starting a Yogic > lifestyle this was > stopped, yet there were periods in which i would > take it once in a > while. And i could feel how these substances induced > anger, negativity > etc in me. Its the same things with meat, it > increases base sexual > drives, much like ones body want to excrete > something out. I used to > think that drinks like beer though having alcohol > does not have any > dead things in it. And one day when i was having, as > if to teach me a > worm came from nowhere and sat on my knee. Thats > what it is, all this > wines and beer, pus and excretion of anything that > grows in the > fermented world. > > Dont moderate this post, this is true to each word. > > > > Meet the all-new My - Try it today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 , Lili Masamura <sephirah5> wrote: I believe I > mentioned sometime back that the Indians say that > alcohol carries three curses with it, that of Brahma > the Creator, who was humiliated when he got drunk and > sexually approached his own daughter under the > influence right in front of all the gods, of > Shukracharya (the planet Venus) and preceptor of the > asuras, when he drank wine and was forced to reveal > the Sanjivani Vidya as a result, and that of Shri > Krishna, whose brother Balarama died of alcoholism. > Lilith M. What is this 3rd curse? Balarama died of alcoholism? What is the source for this assertion? Also, if you know the story of the rest of Balarama's life, I will be happy to know more (all I know is that he stomped out in disgust from the Kurukshetra war after Bhima flattened Duryodhana's thighs and went on a pilgrimmage). Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Why, in the Mahabharata..Balarama lies down under a tree with his everpresent jug of flower wine, goes to sleep and never wakes up, if I recall correctly. I think it was just before the part where Krishna gets spiked to the tree. He says to himself "Tomorrow I will destroy the world", but after He falls asleep Himself under the tree, the hunter comes along and shoots Him in the foot with an arrow and He dies as a result. Lilith M. --- manoj_menon <ammasmon wrote: > > , Lili Masamura > > <sephirah5> wrote: > I believe I > > mentioned sometime back that the Indians say that > > alcohol carries three curses with it, that of > Brahma > > the Creator, who was humiliated when he got drunk > and > > sexually approached his own daughter under the > > influence right in front of all the gods, of > > Shukracharya (the planet Venus) and preceptor of > the > > asuras, when he drank wine and was forced to > reveal > > the Sanjivani Vidya as a result, and that of Shri > > Krishna, whose brother Balarama died of > alcoholism. > > Lilith M. > > What is this 3rd curse? Balarama died of alcoholism? > What is the > source for this assertion? > > Also, if you know the story of the rest of > Balarama's life, I will > be happy to know more (all I know is that he stomped > out in disgust > from the Kurukshetra war after Bhima flattened > Duryodhana's thighs > and went on a pilgrimmage). > > Jai Ma! > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 To Ye Teetotalers, alcohol is beautiful. Wines and brandys have legs due to such beauty. Qualities of fire are in each sip of booze. To peoples of snow, their booze is like carrying a small hearth. Witness the faithful St. Bernard with the barrel of booze around its neck bringing warmth to the person lost in snow. It's a Western image, it's true. But alcohol is Western, mostly. I wonder if anyone saw the article that China is becoming a wine country, and it's said that they could be the World's best in next to no time due to diverse regions and great soil. It's more than ironic, but probably blind that Easterners rail against alcohol and getting a little tipsy when their countries are saturated with heroin, and khat, and hashish. India is the single greatest opium exporter in the world. - Lili Masamura Monday, November 22, 2004 3:06 PM Re: Re: to Jessica You are absolutely right: alcohol is the "wasteWhile the yeast might make alcohol product" of the yeast cells that have digested the sugar in whatever it is that was used to make the liquor. Beer uses sprouted grains of barley;they are then toasted to "malt" them, then they are mixed with water, and yeast is added, then the mix is fermented. Wine is grape juice with yeast added. Eventually fermentation ceases when the yeast drown in their own waste product (alcohol) Various other procedures of refinement are carried out to produce whiskey, brandy, etc., but all liquors of whatever type are essentially produced the same way. The suffering of the yeast is certainly imprinted in the alcohol. I believe I mentioned sometime back that the Indians say that alcohol carries three curses with it, that of Brahma the Creator, who was humiliated when he got drunk and sexually approached his own daughter under the influence right in front of all the gods, of Shukracharya (the planet Venus) and preceptor of the asuras, when he drank wine and was forced to reveal the Sanjivani Vidya as a result, and that of Shri Krishna, whose brother Balarama died of alcoholism. Lilith M. --- jessica_malone1000 <jessica_malone1000 wrote: > > I have taken alcohol. When i was twenties this was > frequent in > parties, friends gatherings. After starting a Yogic > lifestyle this was > stopped, yet there were periods in which i would > take it once in a > while. And i could feel how these substances induced > anger, negativity > etc in me. Its the same things with meat, it > increases base sexual > drives, much like ones body want to excrete > something out. I used to > think that drinks like beer though having alcohol > does not have any > dead things in it. And one day when i was having, as > if to teach me a > worm came from nowhere and sat on my knee. Thats > what it is, all this > wines and beer, pus and excretion of anything that > grows in the > fermented world. > > Dont moderate this post, this is true to each word. > > > > Meet the all-new My - Try it today! / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 I am not learned enough but i have this to say. In Kerala, where all poojas are of tanric origin, among the offerings is Uzunnu vada which substitutes for Meat, and tender coconut cut at the bottom substitute for Alcohol. There are certain other subtle features for other Ms. These are done by the purest of vaideekas. Lili Masamura <sephirah5 wrote: I couldn't find the relevant text, but I recall reading that Drinking is permitted during Left-Hand rites, but one is expected to moderate one's intake so that it enhances the experience; to drink to where one is starting to show the negative effects of the alcohol is considered "beastly". Just as one is expected to control one's lusts so the act of sex may be raised to a higher level than that of mere animal gratification, one should also master the intoxication so that it serves a higher function of enhancing and expanding one's faculties of appreciation rather than obliterating them. In this way, one may rise by that which causes most to "fall". Lilith M. --- omprem <omprem wrote: > > *** "Universally" is to whom? I know one guy here in > the list who > is afraid that his senses become dull if he drinks > LOL, but this > case is not "universal"**** > > > It is a fact, universally speaking, that drinking > alcohol dulls the > senses, dulls the reaction times and destroys brain > cells. It is > also a fact that frinking alcohel renders one > tamasic and > therefore unfit for spiritual evolution. It does not > matter whether > you are in India, North America or Antarctica, or > whether you are > an atheist, a vedantin, or a kaula, drinking has > these negatives > effects. > > But, hey, if you want to destroy more brain cells > and sink deeper > into your morass, then be my guest. > > I see that you have not gotten past attempting to > ridicule via > "LOL" in an effort to hide your personal insecurity > and the > speciousness of your argument. > > Omprem > > > , "Arjuna > Taradasa" > <bhagatirtha@m...> wrote: > > > > , > "jessica_malone1000" > > > > > Not wanting to sound so pure, i would have found > a > statement > > vasishta enjoying with Tara > > > > Which text says that Vasishtha enjoyed with > Tara??? > > > > > after smoking or using herbs a little more from > practical > > experience. Drinking dulls ones senses, it is > universally > known. Meet the all-new My - Try it today! / Discover all that’s new in My Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 ***To think that any drug or smoke or substance can block God from consciousness is really stupid, when God and consciousness are one. *** God and Pure Consciousness are One. Ordinary consciousness and especially consciousness adulterated with alcohol, drugs or any of the other weird and wonderful pasttimes proposed by some of the members here is not capable of bringing one to an awareness of their own Divinity or of Brahman. That is why we have sadhana - to purify the mind, the rest of the astral body and the physcial body so that Samadhi can be experienced. Omprem , "Detective_Mongo_Phd" <detective_mongo_phd@h...> wrote: > To think that any drug or smoke or substance can block God from consciousness is really stupid, when God and consciousness are one. > - > Arjuna Taradasa > > Sunday, November 21, 2004 12:02 PM > Re: to Jessica > > > > , "jessica_malone1000" > > > Not wanting to sound so pure, i would have found a statement > vasishta enjoying with Tara > > Which text says that Vasishtha enjoyed with Tara??? > > > after smoking or using herbs a little more from practical > experience. Drinking dulls ones senses, it is universally known. > > "Universally" is to whom? I know one guy here in the list who is > afraid that his senses become dull if he drinks LOL, but this case is > not "universal". Significantly, Tantras generally keep away from > "smoking" etc but insist on alcohol usage. There are very few > exceptions which are doubtful in authority besides. > BTW every account of Vasishtha's story tells about alcohol and none as > i know about drugs. > > > > Before i answer your question in entirety, i believe Kaula view > itself is distorted. > > Believes can be whatever, but they are not necessarily connected to > the truth. To judge kaula views U have to know kaula doctrine at least > in theory and to certain degree in practice. Otherwise there is no > base for judgement. > > >Anyone who has practiced ahimsa for sometime would know that these > kind of arguments are the product of someone who does not have the > willpower to even undergo the simplest of spiritual disciplines. > > )))) > > >Anyway, pratyabijna is universal, it does not limit itself to > kashmir. > > What is the base of this statement? Any proofs? > As i know both adepts and scientists never doubt the fact that > Pratyabhijna is specifically kashmiri system . > > >Kaulas are people who are from kulas, not people who practice what > the modern tantrics have written about Kaulachara. > > Yes for the first. Then, are U from Kula? > It depends - to the second. "Modern" is not a synonim to "useless" or > "fake" although too much profanation is there in our days due to > business-gurus. > > ) > > A. > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Links > > > / > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of Service. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 You ARE a good little parrot, aren't you? Your guru would be proud...It is entirely possible to "know Brahman" by these means; many people have done so. To be perfectly blunt, it is the types like yourself who never seem to attain to anything except more and more delusion. If you HAD "attained", you would not feel the need to be so militant in your path of "purity". The point of the whole "heroic" Path is one of attainment, not fiddling about with the slow methods you so enthusiastically espouse, doubtless because you enjoy presenting the image of a "holy person" to those around you. To some of us, attainment is more important than image. The only one I personally care about impressing is God. If entheogenics "get me" to God faster, then you bet I will use them. Who are you to judge anyway? If you find it all so offensive, o Holy One, well, then, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out! Always plenty of your type around on other groups, you know; you can sit around and pat each other on the back while reveling in your purity and shaking your heads over those dirty kaulas and aghoris and Vama marg types! Lilith M. --- omprem <omprem wrote: > > ***To think that any drug or smoke or substance can > block God > from consciousness is really stupid, when God and > consciousness are one. *** > > God and Pure Consciousness are One. > > Ordinary consciousness and especially consciousness > adulterated with alcohol, drugs or any of the other > weird and > wonderful pasttimes proposed by some of the members > here is > not capable of bringing one to an awareness of their > own Divinity > or of Brahman. That is why we have sadhana - to > purify the mind, > the rest of the astral body and the physcial body > so that > Samadhi can be experienced. > > Omprem > > > > , > "Detective_Mongo_Phd" <detective_mongo_phd@h...> > wrote: > > To think that any drug or smoke or substance can > block God > from consciousness is really stupid, when God and > consciousness are one. > > - > > Arjuna Taradasa > > > > Sunday, November 21, 2004 12:02 PM > > Re: to Jessica > > > > > > > > , > "jessica_malone1000" > > > > > Not wanting to sound so pure, i would have > found a > statement > > vasishta enjoying with Tara > > > > Which text says that Vasishtha enjoyed with > Tara??? > > > > > after smoking or using herbs a little more > from practical > > experience. Drinking dulls ones senses, it is > universally > known. > > > > "Universally" is to whom? I know one guy here in > the list who > is > > afraid that his senses become dull if he drinks > LOL, but this > case is > > not "universal". Significantly, Tantras > generally keep away > from > > "smoking" etc but insist on alcohol usage. There > are very few > > exceptions which are doubtful in authority > besides. > > BTW every account of Vasishtha's story tells > about alcohol > and none as > > i know about drugs. > > > > > > Before i answer your question in entirety, i > believe Kaula > view > > itself is distorted. > > > > Believes can be whatever, but they are not > necessarily > connected to > > the truth. To judge kaula views U have to know > kaula doctrine > at least > > in theory and to certain degree in practice. > Otherwise there is > no > > base for judgement. > > > > >Anyone who has practiced ahimsa for sometime > would > know that these > > kind of arguments are the product of someone who > does not > have the > > willpower to even undergo the simplest of > spiritual > disciplines. > > > > )))) > > > > >Anyway, pratyabijna is universal, it does not > limit itself to > > kashmir. > > > > What is the base of this statement? Any proofs? > > As i know both adepts and scientists never doubt > the fact that > > Pratyabhijna is specifically kashmiri system . > > > > >Kaulas are people who are from kulas, not > people who > practice what > > the modern tantrics have written about > Kaulachara. > > > > Yes for the first. Then, are U from Kula? > > It depends - to the second. "Modern" is not a > synonim to > "useless" or > > "fake" although too much profanation is there in > our days due > to > > business-gurus. > > > > ) > > > > A. > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > b.. To from this group, send an > email to: > > > > > > c.. Your use of is subject to > the Terms > of Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > The all-new My - Get yours free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 to sri jessikaji and all people of shakti, my experience with the alcohol was that i feel alcohol can reduce the gripping ego and logical jugglery atleast for an hour.u really feel ease within urself and become more caring and loving but then experiences are different at different times.maybe thats the reason it is used in tantric rituals.but strangely enough after i was initiated into tantra consuming whisky,beer wine etc makes me feel energy sapped.maybe tantrics were using their own recipe of wine which was intoxicating and healthy at the same time and maybe their sadhana of pranayama gives them more power to bear high doses of alcohol.alcohol and sex hmm tantrics were having more fun than ordinary people and making spiritual progress at the same time lol what more can u ask for hehe. umanath but i wonder why meat eating was included. -- In , "jessica_malone1000" <jessica_malone1000> wrote: > > I have taken alcohol. When i was twenties this was frequent in > parties, friends gatherings. After starting a Yogic lifestyle this was > stopped, yet there were periods in which i would take it once in a > while. And i could feel how these substances induced anger, negativity > etc in me. Its the same things with meat, it increases base sexual > drives, much like ones body want to excrete something out. I used to > think that drinks like beer though having alcohol does not have any > dead things in it. And one day when i was having, as if to teach me a > worm came from nowhere and sat on my knee. Thats what it is, all this > wines and beer, pus and excretion of anything that grows in the > fermented world. > > Dont moderate this post, this is true to each word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Just from the aggressive, defensive and abusive tone of this and most of your posts, it is clear that you are far away from the Attainment you seek and, moreover, will remain in that state during the rest of this lifetime. What effect these karma-generating antics will have on your future lifetimes is open but at least we know that you will be facing many more difficulties. Even your intention of getting to God faster is a karma generator. Then there are the spectacularly egocentric ways that you use - drugs, alcohol, and who knows what else- that are also karma generators. The net effect on you for this lifetime can be summed in the sentence, 'You are a legend in your own mind." Omprem wi, Lili Masamura <sephirah5> wrote: > You ARE a good little parrot, aren't you? Your guru > would be proud...It is entirely possible to "know > Brahman" by these means; many people have done so. To > be perfectly blunt, it is the types like yourself who > never seem to attain to anything except more and more > delusion. If you HAD "attained", you would not feel > the need to be so militant in your path of "purity". > The point of the whole "heroic" Path is one of > attainment, not fiddling about with the slow methods > you so enthusiastically espouse, doubtless because you > enjoy presenting the image of a "holy person" to those > around you. To some of us, attainment is more > important than image. The only one I personally care > about impressing is God. If entheogenics "get me" to > God faster, then you bet I will use them. Who are you > to judge anyway? If you find it all so offensive, o > Holy One, well, then, don't let the door hit you in > the ass on the way out! Always plenty of your type > around on other groups, you know; you can sit around > and pat each other on the back while reveling in your > purity and shaking your heads over those dirty kaulas > and aghoris and Vama marg types! > Lilith M. > --- omprem <omprem> wrote: > > > > > ***To think that any drug or smoke or substance can > > block God > > from consciousness is really stupid, when God and > > consciousness are one. *** > > > > God and Pure Consciousness are One. > > > > Ordinary consciousness and especially consciousness > > adulterated with alcohol, drugs or any of the other > > weird and > > wonderful pasttimes proposed by some of the members > > here is > > not capable of bringing one to an awareness of their > > own Divinity > > or of Brahman. That is why we have sadhana - to > > purify the mind, > > the rest of the astral body and the physcial body > > so that > > Samadhi can be experienced. > > > > Omprem > > > > > > > > , > > "Detective_Mongo_Phd" <detective_mongo_phd@h...> > > wrote: > > > To think that any drug or smoke or substance can > > block God > > from consciousness is really stupid, when God and > > consciousness are one. > > > - > > > Arjuna Taradasa > > > > > > Sunday, November 21, 2004 12:02 PM > > > Re: to Jessica > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > "jessica_malone1000" > > > > > > > Not wanting to sound so pure, i would have > > found a > > statement > > > vasishta enjoying with Tara > > > > > > Which text says that Vasishtha enjoyed with > > Tara??? > > > > > > > after smoking or using herbs a little more > > from practical > > > experience. Drinking dulls ones senses, it is > > universally > > known. > > > > > > "Universally" is to whom? I know one guy here in > > the list who > > is > > > afraid that his senses become dull if he drinks > > LOL, but this > > case is > > > not "universal". Significantly, Tantras > > generally keep away > > from > > > "smoking" etc but insist on alcohol usage. There > > are very few > > > exceptions which are doubtful in authority > > besides. > > > BTW every account of Vasishtha's story tells > > about alcohol > > and none as > > > i know about drugs. > > > > > > > > Before i answer your question in entirety, i > > believe Kaula > > view > > > itself is distorted. > > > > > > Believes can be whatever, but they are not > > necessarily > > connected to > > > the truth. To judge kaula views U have to know > > kaula doctrine > > at least > > > in theory and to certain degree in practice. > > Otherwise there is > > no > > > base for judgement. > > > > > > >Anyone who has practiced ahimsa for sometime > > would > > know that these > > > kind of arguments are the product of someone who > > does not > > have the > > > willpower to even undergo the simplest of > > spiritual > > disciplines. > > > > > > )))) > > > > > > >Anyway, pratyabijna is universal, it does not > > limit itself to > > > kashmir. > > > > > > What is the base of this statement? Any proofs? > > > As i know both adepts and scientists never doubt > > the fact that > > > Pratyabhijna is specifically kashmiri system . > > > > > > >Kaulas are people who are from kulas, not > > people who > > practice what > > > the modern tantrics have written about > > Kaulachara. > > > > > > Yes for the first. Then, are U from Kula? > > > It depends - to the second. "Modern" is not a > > synonim to > > "useless" or > > > "fake" although too much profanation is there in > > our days due > > to > > > business-gurus. > > > > > > ) > > > > > > A. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > b.. To from this group, send an > > email to: > > > > > > > > > c.. Your use of is subject to > > the Terms > > of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The all-new My - Get yours free! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 what good does it do to continue grappling with this person? ____________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals..ca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 --- omprem <omprem wrote: > > Just from the aggressive, defensive and abusive tone > of this and > most of your posts, it is clear that you are far > away from the > Attainment you seek and, moreover, will remain in > that state > during the rest of this lifetime. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ It certainly isn 't MY posts that are aggressive, defensive and abusive, that's for sure. Might wanna go back and read those numerous reprimands from the moderator and see who most of them are addressed to, hmmm? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ What effect these > karma-generating antics will have on your future > lifetimes is > open but at least we know that you will be facing > many more > difficulties. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4 "We"? What's with the "we"? Have you got a tapeworm or something? ################################################# > > Even your intention of getting to God faster is a > karma generator. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ That's okay. God's already taken care of it all, thanks. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > Then there are the spectacularly egocentric ways > that you use - > drugs, alcohol, and who knows what else- that are > also karma > generators. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ What, you mean offering them up to God first is egocentric? Asking God to guide me on my inner journeys of self is egocentric? And I don't drink, BTW, I have only ever been drunk once in my life ever. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > > The net effect on you for this lifetime can be > summed in the > sentence, 'You are a legend in your own mind." $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ At least I HAVE my OWN mind. Unlike you, I am not a mindless yoga zombie who can only parrot what others tell them, without any capacity for original thought or action. Ma gavte la nata. Lilith M. > > Omprem > > > > wi, Lili > Masamura > <sephirah5> wrote: > > You ARE a good little parrot, aren't you? Your > guru > > would be proud...It is entirely possible to "know > > Brahman" by these means; many people have done so. > To > > be perfectly blunt, it is the types like yourself > who > > never seem to attain to anything except more and > more > > delusion. If you HAD "attained", you would not > feel > > the need to be so militant in your path of > "purity". > > The point of the whole "heroic" Path is one of > > attainment, not fiddling about with the slow > methods > > you so enthusiastically espouse, doubtless because > you > > enjoy presenting the image of a "holy person" to > those > > around you. To some of us, attainment is more > > important than image. The only one I personally > care > > about impressing is God. If entheogenics "get me" > to > > God faster, then you bet I will use them. Who are > you > > to judge anyway? If you find it all so offensive, > o > > Holy One, well, then, don't let the door hit you > in > > the ass on the way out! Always plenty of your type > > around on other groups, you know; you can sit > around > > and pat each other on the back while reveling in > your > > purity and shaking your heads over those dirty > kaulas > > and aghoris and Vama marg types! > > Lilith M. > > --- omprem <omprem> wrote: > > > > > > > > ***To think that any drug or smoke or substance > can > > > block God > > > from consciousness is really stupid, when God > and > > > consciousness are one. *** > > > > > > God and Pure Consciousness are One. > > > > > > Ordinary consciousness and especially > consciousness > > > adulterated with alcohol, drugs or any of the > other > > > weird and > > > wonderful pasttimes proposed by some of the > members > > > here is > > > not capable of bringing one to an awareness of > their > > > own Divinity > > > or of Brahman. That is why we have sadhana - to > > > purify the mind, > > > the rest of the astral body and the physcial > body > > > so that > > > Samadhi can be experienced. > > > > > > Omprem > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > "Detective_Mongo_Phd" <detective_mongo_phd@h...> > > > wrote: > > > > To think that any drug or smoke or substance > can > > > block God > > > from consciousness is really stupid, when God > and > > > consciousness are one. > > > > - > > > > Arjuna Taradasa > > > > > > > > Sunday, November 21, 2004 12:02 PM > > > > Re: to Jessica > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > "jessica_malone1000" > > > > > > > > > Not wanting to sound so pure, i would have > > > found a > > > statement > > > > vasishta enjoying with Tara > > > > > > > > Which text says that Vasishtha enjoyed with > > > Tara??? > > > > > > > > > after smoking or using herbs a little more > > > from practical > > > > experience. Drinking dulls ones senses, it > is > > > universally > > > known. > > > > > > > > "Universally" is to whom? I know one guy > here in > > > the list who > > > is > > > > afraid that his senses become dull if he > drinks > > > LOL, but this > > > case is > > > > not "universal". Significantly, Tantras > > > generally keep away > > > from > > > > "smoking" etc but insist on alcohol usage. > There > > > are very few > > > > exceptions which are doubtful in authority > > > besides. > > > > BTW every account of Vasishtha's story tells > > > about alcohol > > > and none as > > > > i know about drugs. > > > > > > > > > > Before i answer your question in > entirety, i > > > believe Kaula > > > view > > > > itself is distorted. > > > > > > > > Believes can be whatever, but they are not > > > necessarily > > > connected to > > > > the truth. To judge kaula views U have to > know > > > kaula doctrine > > > at least > > > > in theory and to certain degree in practice. > > > Otherwise there is > > > no > > > > base for judgement. > > > > > > > > >Anyone who has practiced ahimsa for > sometime > > > would > > > know that these > > > > kind of arguments are the product of someone > who > > > does not > > > have the > > > > willpower to even undergo the simplest of > > > spiritual > > > disciplines. > > > > > > > > )))) > > > > > > > > >Anyway, pratyabijna is universal, it does > not > > > limit itself to > > > > kashmir. > > > > > > > > What is the base of this statement? Any > proofs? > === message truncated === Meet the all-new My - Try it today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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