Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Lili Masamura wrote : Yes, we mustn't be open, God forbid we learn anything new! The Sufis make frequent remark about how hard it is to get anyone to understand what "learning" is. It is not a rehashing of what we already know. It is attempting to expand and diversify the patterns of one's mental processes to eventually take in and be able to process the concept of things beyond thought. Take yourself, for instance. For you, there is no other method to "attain" outside of your own chosen paradigm …… NO! Lili I disagree with you. I like to share my experience …. I came across a patient. He was a millionare. A director of a successful company. A man who is well respected and always in control, so to speak. But no nurse would like to go into his room to administer his medications or do any procedure, and do you know why? Because he is so nasty. Sometime to the extend of being vulgar. He hates it when he sees you laughing or smiling, he will say something really hurtful just to do that : hurt your feelings. Eventually only 2 nurse are "brave" enough to attend to him. I am one of them, it's not to say that im brave, its just that no other wants to do it, and since he is in our hospital, somebody got to do it. Its our duty. Then One day, I went in as usual and him with his usual verbal abuse. I just listened and continue with doing what I am suppose to do. Once I'm done, I stood infront of him and said : you know Mr Tan [ not his real name ], I know you are not angry with me. I know all those words you just uttered at me are not meant for me. You are angry, that is why. You are angry with your medical condition and specifically your pain. You have my sympathy. I know deep down you are a wonderful man. Your wife and children shed tears when they see you in pain. That is not all, One of your workers came to me earlier asking about donating one of his lungs to you. So you must be a good man. If it makes you feel good when you says those words at me, please do so. I am happy that you have found an avenue for you to express your frustration and anger.. Do not worry about me, they have no effect on me at all. We must and always remain open no matter what others says, be it ompremji or anybody for that is the way it should be. We must be firm in our believe and remain untouch, that is what being open is all about. To be open is to be fearless. Fearless is not about the absent of fear, Fearless is the ability to look at our own fears. To hold it in our hand, To dissect it into pieces To analyse it. To feel our own fear The problem is that ompremji have miss the whole point altogether. I don't think so I have misuse anything at all. I know What I am talking about and what I am referring to. Ompremji obsesssion in branding others being tamasic is itself bizzare as far as I am concern. But again perhaps ompremji perception of being open is rather different from us. Let it be so and let him be. We shall not condemn him anymore okay people! Lets be nice to him. Perhaps omprem feels happy that he have found a place where he can open up his anger and throw in his condemnation. We too must be happy for he have found us. We have serve our purpose then. My last word said it all : You can increase your openness by practicing empathy. Move outside yourself into another's situation. Try to access the other's feelings and ideas. Quite odd enough Ompremji brings in the Yoga of Synthesis, how appropriate : Man thinks, feels and wills. He must develop his heart, intellect and hand. It amuses me when he says : In fact, the bizarre or eccentric person is using his/her weird and wonderful excursions to acquire viveka? My questions is how do you know ompremji? Are you one of them? If you have not personally experience how can you make a conclusion about another person's actions? How do you know what is going on in their head? To be honest I rather deal with an eccentric or bizzare people then those politically correct activist. They make an interesting companion, do you agree? They stretch your limitation beyond your imaginations. The problem is when you have become so structured, that you are not able to move. Perhaps this is what this whole concept of cocoon is all about. You are so restricted. So covered by your own fears, that you cannot see beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 This post is an extended example of the logical fallacy known as Argumentum ad Hominem Abusive. It has almost nothing of substance in it as a result of its wallowing in the above fallacy. It would have been much more useful if the post had dealt with the central question of whether or not the search for the bizarre and eccentric is only a watered-down version of the Jnanai practice of Neti Neti. The post's one instance of substance is actually a question: "My questions is how do you know ompremji? Are you one of them? If you have not personally experience how can you make a conclusion about another person's actions? How do you know what is going on in their head?" The answer is that through long and indepth sadhana one stills desire, quiets the mind and consequently is able to direct prana to know the mind of others. At the high end of the scale of those who are able to do this is the authentic Guru who knows everything that moves in the conscious and subconscious mind of the sadhaka (and, amazingly, despite the unsavouriness of the mental content of the sadhaka, still is interested in promoting the spiritual evolution of that sadhaka). Omprem , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> wrote: > > Lili Masamura wrote : Yes, we mustn't be open, God forbid we learn > anything new! The Sufis make frequent remark about how hard it is to > get anyone to understand what "learning" is. It is not a rehashing > of what we already know. It is attempting to expand and diversify > the patterns of one's mental processes to eventually take in and be > able to process the concept of things beyond thought. Take yourself, > for instance. For you, there is no other method to "attain" outside > of your own chosen > paradigm …… > > > > NO! Lili I disagree with you. > > I like to share my experience …. I came across a patient. He was > a > millionare. A director of a successful company. A man who is well > respected and always in control, so to speak. But no nurse would > like to go into his room to administer his medications or do any > procedure, and do you know why? Because he is so nasty. Sometime to > the extend of being vulgar. He hates it when he sees you laughing or > smiling, he will say something really hurtful just to do that : hurt > your feelings. Eventually only 2 nurse are "brave" enough to > attend to him. I am one of them, it's not to say that im brave, > its > just that no other wants to do it, and since he is in our hospital, > somebody got to do it. Its our duty. Then One day, I went in as > usual and him with his usual verbal abuse. I just listened and > continue with doing what I am suppose to do. Once I'm done, I > stood infront of him and said : you know Mr Tan [ not his real > name ], I know you are not angry with me. I know all those words you > just uttered at me are not meant for me. You are angry, that is why. > You are angry with your medical condition and specifically your > pain. You have my sympathy. I know deep down you are a wonderful > man. Your wife and children shed tears when they see you in pain. > That is not all, One of your workers came to me earlier asking about > donating one of his lungs to you. So you must be a good man. If it > makes you feel good when you says those words at me, please do so. I > am happy that you have found an avenue for you to express your > frustration and anger.. Do not worry about me, they have no effect > on me at all. > > We must and always remain open no matter what others says, be it > ompremji or anybody for that is the way it should be. We must be > firm in our believe and remain untouch, that is what being open is > all about. > > To be open is to be fearless. > Fearless is not about the absent of fear, > Fearless is the ability to look at our own fears. > To hold it in our hand, > To dissect it into pieces > To analyse it. > To feel our own fear > > The problem is that ompremji have miss the whole point altogether. I > don't think so I have misuse anything at all. I know What I am > talking about and what I am referring to. > > Ompremji obsesssion in branding others being tamasic is itself > bizzare as far as I am concern. But again perhaps ompremji > perception of being open is rather different from us. Let it be so > and let him be. We shall not condemn him anymore okay people! Lets > be nice to him. Perhaps omprem feels happy that he have found a > place where he can open up his anger and throw in his condemnation. > We too must be happy for he have found us. We have serve our purpose > then. > > My last word said it all : You can increase your openness by > practicing empathy. Move outside yourself into another's situation. > Try to access the other's feelings and ideas. > > Quite odd enough Ompremji brings in the Yoga of Synthesis, how > appropriate : Man thinks, feels and wills. He must develop his > heart, intellect and hand. > > It amuses me when he says : In fact, the bizarre or eccentric person > is using his/her weird and wonderful excursions to acquire viveka? > > My questions is how do you know ompremji? Are you one of them? If > you have not personally experience how can you make a conclusion > about another person's actions? How do you know what is going on > in their head? > > To be honest I rather deal with an eccentric or bizzare people then > those politically correct activist. They make an interesting > companion, do you agree? They stretch your limitation beyond your > imaginations. > > The problem is when you have become so structured, that you are not > able to move. Perhaps this is what this whole concept of cocoon is > all about. You are so restricted. So covered by your own fears, that > you cannot see beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 omprem wrote: This post is an extended example of the logical fallacy known as Argumentum ad Hominem Abusive. It has almost nothing of substance in it as a result of its wallowing in the above fallacy. It would have been much more useful if the post had dealt with the central question of whether or not the search for the bizarre and eccentric is only a watered-down version of the Jnanai practice of Neti Neti. You sound more bizzare and eccentric as you go on ompremji. Oddly enough you only see others people abuses towards you without realising of your own abusive behaviour towards another. So there u see people a classical example of my little story. We shall let omprem say what he likes. And let forgive him for it. We are indeed a very open people, receptive and forgiving for that is our nature. Lets all move on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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