One...Two...Three...Go ! Logic leads to salvation

[Guest guest]

The tendency to dismiss reason and logic is the hallmark of the

licentious hedonist. Non-reason and non-logic is the hallmark of

the weak-minded victim of the senses, desire and Maya. It is

through reason and logic that one is able to give up thought and

become Brahman.

 

Swami Sivananda has this to say about reason in Bliss Divine:

 

ÒIntrospect. Have an inner life always. Let a portion of the mind

and the hands do their work mechanically. An acrobat girl, while

exhibiting her performances, has her attention rivetted on the

waterpot she bears on her head although all the time she is

dancing to various tunes.

 

ÒWhen emotions, moods, sentiments, arise in the mind,

separate them, study their nature, dissect them and analyse

them. Do not identify yourself with them. The real ÒIÓ is is entirely

distinct from them. It is the Silent Witness. Master your impulses,

emotions, and moods and rise from the position of a slave to

that of a spiritual king [or queen] who can rule over them with

force and power.

 

ÒControl your thoughts. Just as you retain only the good fruits

from the basket and discard the bad ones, so also keep good

thoughts in your mind and reject the evil ones. Wipe out lust,

greed, and egoism. Entertain only pure holy thoughts.

 

ÒFully realise for yourself the grave and ruinous consequences of

evil thoughts. This will set you on your guard when the evil

thoughts would come. The moment they come, exert yourself or

divert the mind to some other object of divine thoughts, prayer, or

Japa.

 

ÒKeep the mind fully occupied. Then evil thoughts will not enter.

An idle brain is the devilÕs workshop. Watch the mind every

minute. Always engage yourself in some work. Avoid loose talk

and gossip. Fill the mind with sublime thoughts, such as those

contained in the Gita, the Upanishads and Yoga-Vasishtha.

 

ÒDrive away from your mind all unnecessary, useless and

obnoxious thoughts. Usless thoughts, impede your spiritual

growth; obnoxious thoughts are stumbling blocks to spiritual

advancement. You are away from God when you entertain

useless thoughts.

 

ÒYou must eradicate through introspection all sorts of mean

thoughts, useless thoughts, unworthy thoughts, impure thoughs,

all sexual thoughts, thoughts of jealousy, hatred and

selfishness. You must annihilate all destructive thoughts of

disharmony and discord. You must develop good, loving

sublime thoughts, divine thoughts. Every thought must be of a

constructive nature. It must be strong, positive and definite. The

mental image must be of a clear-cut and well-defined nature.

You must develop right thinking. Every thought must bring peace

and solace to others.

 

ÒThe common man does not know what deep thinking is. His

thoughts run riot. There is a great deal of confusion in the mind

sometimes. His mental images are very distorted. It is only

thinkers, philosophers and Yogins who have well-defined,

clear-cut mental images.

 

Thinkers are very few in this world. Thinking is shallow in the

vast majority of persons. Deep thinking needs intense Sadhana

or practice. It takes innumerable births for the proper evolution of

the mind. Tnen only it can think deeply and properly. A man who

speaks the truth and has moral purity has always powerful

thoughts. One who has controlled anger by long practice has

tremendous thought-power.

 

ÒThe fewer the thoughts, the greater the peace. The fewer the

desires, the lesser the thoughts. Remember this always.

 

ÒEvery thought that is reduced adds strength and peace to the

mind. Reduction of even one thought will give mental strength

and peace of mind. You may not be able to feel this in the

beginning as you do not possess a subtle intellect; but there is a

spiritual thermometer inside to register the reduction of even a

single thought. If you reduce one thought, the mental strength

that you have gained by this reduction will help you to reduce the

second thought easily.

 

ÒThnrough constant and intense practice, you can become

waveless or thought-free. The waveless Yogin helps the world

more than the man on the platform...When you are waveless, you

actually permeate and pervade every atom of the universe, purify

and elevate the whole world. The names of waveless Jnanins

suchs as Jada Bharata and Vamadeva are even now

remembered. They never built Ashramas. They never lectured.

They never published books. The never made disciples. Yet,

what a tremendous influence these waveless Jananins had

produced on the minds of the people! Glory tio such Janains!

 

Omprem

 

, "Sarabhanga Giri"

<sarabhanga> wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> Kochu considers that any such equation is "quite vague", and

that the

> concept "may be there".

> I have presented the equation quite precisely, and it should be

clear

> that the concept is, in fact, there.

> There is no vague uncertainty in my mind, nor in the minds of

my

> Gurus.

>

> Devi Bhakta considers that such equations must be made very

carefully.

> This is true in all logic and philosophy, but that is no reason to

> avoid logic and the pursuit of Truth altogether!

>

> Kochu considers that "western tools" should not be used in

such

> equations.

> Is Logic the sole property of western thought?

>

> There are many who seem to believe that Hinduism (or

Religion in

> general) is supposed to be illogical; and if one uses Logic in

the

> field of Religion or Spirituality, then the result will be dangerous

> and disturbing!

> Is Logic the sole property of Atheism and Cavarka?

>

> Kochu considers that the base concepts differ, without

explanation.

> I have shown clearly that the base concepts are identical.

>

> Some would say that "the sheer beauty of the structures of the

> different religions and how they approach God is lost in

> this 'unifying' exercise".

> Perhaps there are many who prefer to look at the overall beauty

of a

> wonderful piece of Architecture or Art, without any interest in the

> plan used by the Architect or the exact pigments and

techniques used

> by the Artist.

> The wise, however, understand the importance firmly grasping

the

> original plans, without losing sight of the glorious result.

> The illogical fool is unable to interpret the signs; and so, fearful

> that his loosely held spiritual illusion will disappear in a cloud

of

> smoke if true understanding arises, he throws away very key to

the

> riches of which he dreams.

>

> Manoj considers that Comparative Religion has a 3-4 %

chance of

> leading us to an error, without pointing to any particular error in

> this case.

> Any comparison pursued recklessly can certainly lead us to

error; but

> this particular comparison has not been made without great

care and

> consideration ~ and a 97% chance of finding treasure is worth

the

> effort!

>

> Three Wise individuals of Quality and Distinction came

mysteriously

> from the East (the realm of both manifest sunrise and the

dawn of

> ideas) bearing Three Gifts for the Divine Child.

> These Three Discerning Diviners Distinguished the eternal

Triunity

> manifest in the Birth of Jesus; and they Delivered their Three

Gifts

> of Three Qualities to the newly Delivered One who is Three in

One.

>

> Knowledge of the Three Gunas (Qualities, Distinctions) is

implied in

> ALL of the fundamental Creative Trinities.

>

> In the understanding of my own teachers, Guru Maharaja, Sri

> Dattatreya, is the One Triple Gift of the One Beyond Three; and I

> would suggest that those involved with Shakta Sadhana

become more

> acquainted with the true nature of their own Triumvirate Sri

Tripura.

>

> Sadhus are often heard to exclaim: "One, Two, Three ~ All

India

> Free!"

> There is far more to this statement than just excitement over

the

> free (unreserved 2nd class) rail travel allowed in India for those

> initiated as a Sadhu!

>

> If the Moderator of this Forum has this question to be asked,

then we

> should be free to discuss the answer(s).

> Arjuna and I have supplied reasoned argument with our

conclusions,

> but those who would have this topic dead and buried have

fearfully

> suggested only unspecified "danger" and a supposed 3 %

chance of

> error!

[Guest guest]

Swami Sivananda has this to say about reason in Bliss Divine:

 

Introspect. Have an inner life always. Let a portion of the mind

and the hands do their work mechanically. An acrobat girl, while

exhibiting her performances, has her attention rivetted on the

waterpot she bears on her head although all the time she is

dancing to various tunes.

 

When emotions, moods, sentiments, arise in the mind, separate them,

study their nature, dissect them and analyse them. Do not identify

yourself with them. The real ÒIÓ is is entirely distinct from them.

It is the Silent Witness. Master your impulses, emotions, and moods

and rise from the position of a slave to that of a spiritual king

[or queen] who can rule over them with force and power.

 

 

Thank you Ompremji for this. Now if only we all can really practice

what is being preach, this world will be a better place to be. Right?

[Guest guest]

Well it is easy to sit there and say, "Wipe out lust

from your thoughts" but not so easy to DO. Better to

work with such energies and transmute them. I once

read of a yogi who advised a man who was plagued by an

uncontrollable compulsion to eat, the next time he was

stuffing his face, to imagine himself as devouring the

whole of Creation. Using this visualization the

compulsion to eat was brought under control. A very

great deal of compulsive behaviour is merely a gross

restatement of the inner, unexpressed, unacknowledged

desire for God. The lustful one desires "Union with

the Absolute". The devouring one desires "Spiritual

nourishment", etc.

Lilith M

--- omprem <omprem wrote:

>

> The tendency to dismiss reason and logic is the

> hallmark of the

> licentious hedonist. Non-reason and non-logic is the

> hallmark of

> the weak-minded victim of the senses, desire and

> Maya. It is

> through reason and logic that one is able to give up

> thought and

> become Brahman.

>

> Swami Sivananda has this to say about reason in

> Bliss Divine:

>

> ÒIntrospect. Have an inner life always. Let a

> portion of the mind

> and the hands do their work mechanically. An acrobat

> girl, while

> exhibiting her performances, has her attention

> rivetted on the

> waterpot she bears on her head although all the time

> she is

> dancing to various tunes.

>

> ÒWhen emotions, moods, sentiments, arise in the

> mind,

> separate them, study their nature, dissect them and

> analyse

> them. Do not identify yourself with them. The real

> ÒIÓ is is entirely

> distinct from them. It is the Silent Witness. Master

> your impulses,

> emotions, and moods and rise from the position of a

> slave to

> that of a spiritual king [or queen] who can rule

> over them with

> force and power.

>

> ÒControl your thoughts. Just as you retain only the

> good fruits

> from the basket and discard the bad ones, so also

> keep good

> thoughts in your mind and reject the evil ones. Wipe

> out lust,

> greed, and egoism. Entertain only pure holy

> thoughts.

>

> ÒFully realise for yourself the grave and ruinous

> consequences of

> evil thoughts. This will set you on your guard when

> the evil

> thoughts would come. The moment they come, exert

> yourself or

> divert the mind to some other object of divine

> thoughts, prayer, or

> Japa.

>

> ÒKeep the mind fully occupied. Then evil thoughts

> will not enter.

> An idle brain is the devilÕs workshop. Watch the

> mind every

> minute. Always engage yourself in some work. Avoid

> loose talk

> and gossip. Fill the mind with sublime thoughts,

> such as those

> contained in the Gita, the Upanishads and

> Yoga-Vasishtha.

>

> ÒDrive away from your mind all unnecessary, useless

> and

> obnoxious thoughts. Usless thoughts, impede your

> spiritual

> growth; obnoxious thoughts are stumbling blocks to

> spiritual

> advancement. You are away from God when you

> entertain

> useless thoughts.

>

> ÒYou must eradicate through introspection all sorts

> of mean

> thoughts, useless thoughts, unworthy thoughts,

> impure thoughs,

> all sexual thoughts, thoughts of jealousy, hatred

> and

> selfishness. You must annihilate all destructive

> thoughts of

> disharmony and discord. You must develop good,

> loving

> sublime thoughts, divine thoughts. Every thought

> must be of a

> constructive nature. It must be strong, positive and

> definite. The

> mental image must be of a clear-cut and well-defined

> nature.

> You must develop right thinking. Every thought must

> bring peace

> and solace to others.

>

> ÒThe common man does not know what deep thinking is.

> His

> thoughts run riot. There is a great deal of

> confusion in the mind

> sometimes. His mental images are very distorted. It

> is only

> thinkers, philosophers and Yogins who have

> well-defined,

> clear-cut mental images.

>

> Thinkers are very few in this world. Thinking is

> shallow in the

> vast majority of persons. Deep thinking needs

> intense Sadhana

> or practice. It takes innumerable births for the

> proper evolution of

> the mind. Tnen only it can think deeply and

> properly. A man who

> speaks the truth and has moral purity has always

> powerful

> thoughts. One who has controlled anger by long

> practice has

> tremendous thought-power.

>

> ÒThe fewer the thoughts, the greater the peace. The

> fewer the

> desires, the lesser the thoughts. Remember this

> always.

>

> ÒEvery thought that is reduced adds strength and

> peace to the

> mind. Reduction of even one thought will give mental

> strength

> and peace of mind. You may not be able to feel this

> in the

> beginning as you do not possess a subtle intellect;

> but there is a

> spiritual thermometer inside to register the

> reduction of even a

> single thought. If you reduce one thought, the

> mental strength

> that you have gained by this reduction will help you

> to reduce the

> second thought easily.

>

> ÒThnrough constant and intense practice, you can

> become

> waveless or thought-free. The waveless Yogin helps

> the world

> more than the man on the platform...When you are

> waveless, you

> actually permeate and pervade every atom of the

> universe, purify

> and elevate the whole world. The names of waveless

> Jnanins

> suchs as Jada Bharata and Vamadeva are even now

> remembered. They never built Ashramas. They never

> lectured.

> They never published books. The never made

> disciples. Yet,

> what a tremendous influence these waveless Jananins

> had

> produced on the minds of the people! Glory tio such

> Janains!

>

> Omprem

>

> , "Sarabhanga

> Giri"

> <sarabhanga> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > Kochu considers that any such equation is "quite

> vague", and

> that the

> > concept "may be there".

> > I have presented the equation quite precisely, and

> it should be

> clear

> > that the concept is, in fact, there.

> > There is no vague uncertainty in my mind, nor in

> the minds of

> my

> > Gurus.

> >

> > Devi Bhakta considers that such equations must be

> made very

> carefully.

> > This is true in all logic and philosophy, but that

> is no reason to

> > avoid logic and the pursuit of Truth altogether!

> >

> > Kochu considers that "western tools" should not be

> used in

> such

> > equations.

> > Is Logic the sole property of western thought?

> >

> > There are many who seem to believe that Hinduism

> (or

> Religion in

> > general) is supposed to be illogical; and if one

> uses

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Lili,

 

It certainly is easy (and correct) for one who has actually succeeded

in removing "lust" from his/her thoughts to suggest this as an aim ~

as the FIRST step towards Yoga.

It is unlikely that this Guru just sat down and did it.

Any method for achieving the goal is surely not "better" than the

goal itself; although without a tried and true practical method the

grand achievement will most likely remain a distant dream.

 

And doesn't the process of "devouring the whole of Creation" require

rather a large degree of abstraction?!!

[Guest guest]

Well, it is simply ridiculous just to tell people what

they have to do without giving, at the very least, any

suggestions as to how this is to be done! Anyone who

has ever been horny knows how difficult it is to

"drive out" such thoughts! Better the energy be

transmuted. A very good Buddhist meditation that might

help is described in "Arousing the Goddess" by Tim

Ward. and it is not so difficult to picture oneself as

the All-Devourer. What is difficult is to keep it up

for the whole meal!

Lilith M.

--- Sarabhanga Giri <sarabhanga wrote:

>

> Namaste Lili,

>

> It certainly is easy (and correct) for one who has

> actually succeeded

> in removing "lust" from his/her thoughts to suggest

> this as an aim ~

> as the FIRST step towards Yoga.

> It is unlikely that this Guru just sat down and did

> it.

> Any method for achieving the goal is surely not

> "better" than the

> goal itself; although without a tried and true

> practical method the

> grand achievement will most likely remain a distant

> dream.

>

> And doesn't the process of "devouring the whole of

> Creation" require

> rather a large degree of abstraction?!!

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mail - You care about security. So do we.

 

[Guest guest]

Quite correct, Lilith

And Omprem's submission from Svami Shivananda

[ /message/13805 ]

goes into some detail regarding the process.

 

If one passes only a short time in the company of a Guru, then only

the essential points can be transmitted.

If one requires more explaination, then more time is required at the

feet of the Guru.

 

When asked to summarize Hinduism in a single word, a wise Guru might

correctly reply: OM.

The ultimate Truth has been truly revealed by the Guru, and yet the

western inquisitor scoffs: Don't be ridiculous!

[Guest guest]

Which particular meditation?

-

Lili Masamura

Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:43 PM

Re: Re: One...Two...Three...Go ! Logic leads to

salvation

 

 

Well, it is simply ridiculous just to tell people what

they have to do without giving, at the very least, any

suggestions as to how this is to be done! Anyone who

has ever been horny knows how difficult it is to

"drive out" such thoughts! Better the energy be

transmuted. A very good Buddhist meditation that might

help is described in "Arousing the Goddess" by Tim

Ward. and it is not so difficult to picture oneself as

the All-Devourer. What is difficult is to keep it up

for the whole meal!

Lilith M.

--- Sarabhanga Giri <sarabhanga wrote:

>

> Namaste Lili,

>

> It certainly is easy (and correct) for one who has

> actually succeeded

> in removing "lust" from his/her thoughts to suggest

> this as an aim ~

> as the FIRST step towards Yoga.

> It is unlikely that this Guru just sat down and did

> it.

> Any method for achieving the goal is surely not

> "better" than the

> goal itself; although without a tried and true

> practical method the

> grand achievement will most likely remain a distant

> dream.

>

> And doesn't the process of "devouring the whole of

> Creation" require

> rather a large degree of abstraction?!!

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

Mail - You care about security. So do we.

 

/

 

b..

 

c..

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

"Well it is easy to sit there and say, "Wipe out lust from your

thoughts" but not so easy to DO."

 

It is indeed not easy to do. That is why there is sadhana. But

sadhana must be 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. It is must be

rigorous and vigilant. Sadhana starts with reasona and logic and

focuses on self-awareness, learning the patterns or ruts that

one's mind takes and making alternate and better choices that

take one closer to the Divine instead of away from the Divine

toward raga, dvesha and ahamkara and avidya

 

Omprem.

 

 

, Lili Masamura

<sephirah5> wrote:

> Well it is easy to sit there and say, "Wipe out lust

> from your thoughts" but not so easy to DO. Better to

> work with such energies and transmute them. I once

> read of a yogi who advised a man who was plagued by an

> uncontrollable compulsion to eat, the next time he was

> stuffing his face, to imagine himself as devouring the

> whole of Creation. Using this visualization the

> compulsion to eat was brought under control. A very

> great deal of compulsive behaviour is merely a gross

> restatement of the inner, unexpressed, unacknowledged

> desire for God. The lustful one desires "Union with

> the Absolute". The devouring one desires "Spiritual

> nourishment", etc.

> Lilith M

> --- omprem <omprem> wrote:

>

> >

> > The tendency to dismiss reason and logic is the

> > hallmark of the

> > licentious hedonist. Non-reason and non-logic is the

> > hallmark of

> > the weak-minded victim of the senses, desire and

> > Maya. It is

> > through reason and logic that one is able to give up

> > thought and

> > become Brahman.

> >

> > Swami Sivananda has this to say about reason in

> > Bliss Divine:

> >

> > ÒIntrospect. Have an inner life always. Let a

> > portion of the mind

> > and the hands do their work mechanically. An acrobat

> > girl, while

> > exhibiting her performances, has her attention

> > rivetted on the

> > waterpot she bears on her head although all the time

> > she is

> > dancing to various tunes.

> >

> > ÒWhen emotions, moods, sentiments, arise in the

> > mind,

> > separate them, study their nature, dissect them and

> > analyse

> > them. Do not identify yourself with them. The real

> > ÒIÓ is is entirely

> > distinct from them. It is the Silent Witness. Master

> > your impulses,

> > emotions, and moods and rise from the position of a

> > slave to

> > that of a spiritual king [or queen] who can rule

> > over them with

> > force and power.

> >

> > ÒControl your thoughts. Just as you retain only the

> > good fruits

> > from the basket and discard the bad ones, so also

> > keep good

> > thoughts in your mind and reject the evil ones. Wipe

> > out lust,

> > greed, and egoism. Entertain only pure holy

> > thoughts.

> >

> > ÒFully realise for yourself the grave and ruinous

> > consequences of

> > evil thoughts. This will set you on your guard when

> > the evil

> > thoughts would come. The moment they come, exert

> > yourself or

> > divert the mind to some other object of divine

> > thoughts, prayer, or

> > Japa.

> >

> > ÒKeep the mind fully occupied. Then evil thoughts

> > will not enter.

> > An idle brain is the devilÕs workshop. Watch the

> > mind every

> > minute. Always engage yourself in some work. Avoid

> > loose talk

> > and gossip. Fill the mind with sublime thoughts,

> > such as those

> > contained in the Gita, the Upanishads and

> > Yoga-Vasishtha.

> >

> > ÒDrive away from your mind all unnecessary, useless

> > and

> > obnoxious thoughts. Usless thoughts, impede your

> > spiritual

> > growth; obnoxious thoughts are stumbling blocks to

> > spiritual

> > advancement. You are away from God when you

> > entertain

> > useless thoughts.

> >

> > ÒYou must eradicate through introspection all sorts

> > of mean

> > thoughts, useless thoughts, unworthy thoughts,

> > impure thoughs,

> > all sexual thoughts, thoughts of jealousy, hatred

> > and

> > selfishness. You must annihilate all destructive

> > thoughts of

> > disharmony and discord. You must develop good,

> > loving

> > sublime thoughts, divine thoughts. Every thought

> > must be of a

> > constructive nature. It must be strong, positive and

> > definite. The

> > mental image must be of a clear-cut and well-defined

> > nature.

> > You must develop right thinking. Every thought must

> > bring peace

> > and solace to others.

> >

> > ÒThe common man does not know what deep thinking is.

> > His

> > thoughts run riot. There is a great deal of

> > confusion in the mind

> > sometimes. His mental images are very distorted. It

> > is only

> > thinkers, philosophers and Yogins who have

> > well-defined,

> > clear-cut mental images.

> >

> > Thinkers are very few in this world. Thinking is

> > shallow in the

> > vast majority of persons. Deep thinking needs

> > intense Sadhana

> > or practice. It takes innumerable births for the

> > proper evolution of

> > the mind. Tnen only it can think deeply and

> > properly. A man who

> > speaks the truth and has moral purity has always

> > powerful

> > thoughts. One who has controlled anger by long

> > practice has

> > tremendous thought-power.

> >

> > ÒThe fewer the thoughts, the greater the peace. The

> > fewer the

> > desires, the lesser the thoughts. Remember this

> > always.

> >

> > ÒEvery thought that is reduced adds strength and

> > peace to the

> > mind. Reduction of even one thought will give mental

> > strength

> > and peace of mind. You may not be able to feel this

> > in the

> > beginning as you do not possess a subtle intellect;

> > but there is a

> > spiritual thermometer inside to register the

> > reduction of even a

> > single thought. If you reduce one thought, the

> > mental strength

> > that you have gained by this reduction will help you

> > to reduce the

> > second thought easily.

> >

> > ÒThnrough constant and intense practice, you can

> > become

> > waveless or thought-free. The waveless Yogin helps

> > the world

> > more than the man on the platform...When you are

> > waveless, you

> > actually permeate and pervade every atom of the

> > universe, purify

> > and elevate the whole world. The names of waveless

> > Jnanins

> > suchs as Jada Bharata and Vamadeva are even now

> > remembered. They never built Ashramas. They never

> > lectured.

> > They never published books. The never made

> > disciples. Yet,

> > what a tremendous influence these waveless Jananins

> > had

> > produced on the minds of the people! Glory tio such

> > Janains!

> >

> > Omprem

> >

> > , "Sarabhanga

> > Giri"

> > <sarabhanga> wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste,

> > >

> > > Kochu considers that any such equation is "quite

> > vague", and

> > that the

> > > concept "may be there".

> > > I have presented the equation quite precisely, and

> > it should be

> > clear

> > > that the concept is, in fact, there.

> > > There is no vague uncertainty in my mind, nor in

> > the minds of

> > my

> > > Gurus.

> > >

> > > Devi Bhakta considers that such equations must be

> > made very

> > carefully.

> > > This is true in all logic and philosophy, but that

> > is no reason to

> > > avoid logic and the pursuit of Truth altogether!

> > >

> > > Kochu considers that "western tools" should not be

> > used in

> > such

> > > equations.

> > > Is Logic the sole property of western thought?

> > >

> > > There are many who seem to believe that Hinduism

> > (or

> > Religion in

> > > general) is supposed to be illogical; and if one

> > uses

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

>

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