Culture Shock: Westerners, Yoga and India

[Guest guest]

Here is a longish, but very interesting and worthwhile, perspective

piece from the magazine, "Yoga Journal":

 

CULTURE SHOCK: How yoga's popularity in the West is changing the way

Indians approach a practice created in their country thousands of

years ago.

 

By Marina Budhos

 

One afternoon in 1993, I was sitting in a restaurant on a gorgeous

beach in Trivandrum, in the state of Kerala, India, with my friend

Ed Rothfarb and several people he had recently met at the Sivananda

Ashram, when one of the American women dreamily observed: "The

people in India are so happy. Even the poor people; they all look so

content. Don't you think so?"

 

I had just come from Calcutta, having lived through particularly

troubling times: Riots had broken out throughout India when Hindu

fundamentalists stormed the Ayodhya Mosque. It was a painful time

for the country; we spent weeks under curfew, locked in our houses

and listening to reports of burning and looting in the poorer Muslim

quarters. Although I gave the woman quite a tongue-lashing, her

ignorance was not really her fault. After all, she had only been

here a few weeks, sequestered in an ashram and unaware of the

terrible violence that had swept through the country.

 

Through the years, though, I learned that this somewhat filtered

perspective of India appears to be firmly established in the West --

especially when it comes to the practice of yoga. For instance, I

recently attended a party where a woman asked about my background.

When I told her I was half Indian (via the Caribbean, no less), she

said, "I know India well. I go there every year to study yoga."

 

As an Indian American, I regularly encounter such misguided comments

about India and find them both confusing and intriguing. On the one

hand, the India this woman spoke of -- an ashram in Rajasthan -- had

nothing to do with the India I have come to know and love. For me,

India is a sense of connection: It is endless socializing, home-

cooked food, and conversation among those who look like me and have

a certain outlook that I don't find in the States; it is the streets

and the pungent smells and the movie posters splotched in color; and

it is the shopping. India, to me, is not spiritual; it is a raucous,

exhausting, intense, and yes, at times, violent experience.

 

Yet I was also curious about the particular form of yoga she was

studying, a layer of India with which I am not familiar. I had never

met an Indian who went to an ashram; most I knew thought of it as a

white person's paradise that cost too much, or it just hadn't

crossed their minds to go. At the same time, I knew that yoga was

practiced in India, but in subtler, less obvious ways.

 

It made me wonder whether other Indians share my feelings. What do

Indians make of the droves of foreign travelers who arrive in their

country, rubbery mats tucked under their arms, ready for hard-core

study and spiritual contentment? Has the West changed how India

approaches the practice it created thousands of years ago, or is the

influence much more subtle? The answers are as varied as India.

 

THE LOST GENERATION

 

I began my inquiry with Basant Kumar Dube. Dube, who has been

practicing hatha yoga for 40 years, was part of the Indian

generation groomed to look to the West for guidance rather than to

its own heritage. When I called Dube at his son's Greenwich Village

apartment, where he was visiting, he told me firmly that yoga could

not be spoken of over the phone and insisted I come over for tea. I

was pleased at the gesture; it reminded me of exactly what I love

about India -- the social graciousness, the sense that someone is

always waiting with tea and sweets.

 

When I arrived, Dube had just finished his morning asanas and was

sitting on a pillow by the window absorbing the sun's rays. It was

hard to believe that Dube was almost 70; he looked agile and

youthful and was eager to talk about his passion for yoga.

 

Dube grew up when India was under the rule of the British Raj. He

attended an exclusive Eton-style boarding school and worked for an

English firm in Calcutta. "We were either fighting the British or

working for them," he remarks wryly. Like many in his generation, he

disdained yoga, seeing it as backward or "some kind of hocus pocus."

 

"It's part of our inheritance," explains Dube. "But there was no

actual passing down of specific yoga knowledge. One tried to mold

one's life to the concept of Hinduism. When one read the Gita as a

child, one understood that one had to rise above pain and joy. But

we were not trained to try and inculcate those thoughts and

feelings. We didn't have the instruments to practice it."

 

And then a funny thing happened -- he was introduced to yoga via an

Englishman. Dube's eldest son, Pratap, had fallen ill with polio,

and his right foot and leg remained partially paralyzed. Since the

boy was unable to participate in school sports, the British

headmaster at Dube's alma mater handed him a book on yoga. It was

written by Sir Paul Duke, a spy for the Royal Secret Service, who

had traveled throughout the region and spoken at length with various

seers and gurus in the Himalayas. One day Dube came home from work

and found, to his astonishment, his son trying to stand on his head.

He took one look at the book his son showed him and from then on, he

says, "I was hooked," and proclaims to have never missed a day of

yoga since. His evening headstands "are like the glass of scotch I

still like to have at the end of the day."

 

The Dube family began to practice yoga regularly -- all three sons --

and soon Dube's wife, Savitri, went to study at the Calcutta

branches of the Bihar School of Yoga and the Yogashakti Ashram.

Savitri eventually became an accomplished teacher, giving free

private classes to young women. Says Siddarth, Dube's son: "When we

were kids, if people dropped by on the weekend, they might find the

whole family in their underwear doing poses." Even though the Dubes

were passionately embracing a part of their heritage, they were very

much in the minority. It was unusual among affluent or middle-class

Indians to practice yoga so fervently and openly. If anything, yoga

was seen as a practice to be followed by only the most devoted:

sanyasis and sadhus, those who took the path of renunciation, or by

an older person, who traditionally in Indian culture turns away from

his or her material obligations and goes inward to practice non-

attachment (vanprasthashrama). Yet yoga was not altogether lost or

forgotten; rather it was latent in the culture, sometimes woven into

daily and religious life. Yoga, to an Indian, might mean meditation

and breathing as part of a morning puja, a practice done quietly at

home and without a name. Nearly everyone I spoke with told me the

same thing: Yoga was something unremarkable.

 

COMING TO AMERICA

 

To fully understand yoga in India today, you first have to look at

the practice after the 1947 independence from Great Britain, when

the major hatha yoga pioneers struggled to keep up their schools for

the more serious study of yoga, particularly as government patronage

had ended.

 

Krishnamacharya, regarded as the father of modern-day yoga, had in

the decades before built up a broad following in Mysore under the

patronage of the maharaja but was forced to close his school in

1950. However, he was encouraged by several prominent people in

Madras (now Chennai) to bring his particular form of yoga to their

city. There, he once again formed a local following, and his son, T.

K. V. Desikachar, would soon follow in his footsteps, as would two

of his other prized students, B. K. S. Iyengar and Sri K. Pattabhi

Jois.

 

But it wasn't until this trio traveled to America in the 1960s and

early 1970s that their impact on yoga was truly felt. Here, they

found small but dedicated groups of yogis who proceeded to follow

them back to India to further develop and deepen their individual

practices. It was an audience they lacked in their homeland.

 

Mary Dunn, an Iyengar teacher now based in New York, was a member of

this early entourage and went to India at the "cusp" moment when

yoga was just opening to the West. What I first noticed about Dunn

is her no-nonsense way of talking about India. And it became clear

to me that while she loves India, it is yoga that draws her again

and again to the country -- a yoga training she can't get anywhere

else in the world.

 

Dunn was originally introduced to yoga via her mother, Mary Palmer,

who helped to bring B. K. S. Iyengar to the United States in the

1970s. Iyengar's arrival was electric -- he struck a chord among a

whole new generation that was longing for this kind of experience.

Dunn remembers vividly the first time she heard him speak in

California: "Halfway through class, I realized this was the most

exciting learning experience I have ever had. The way he taught,

which was to command such concentration and demand such breadth of

application, was unbelievable -- the physical sensitivity and the

concentration of the mind."

 

Dunn, then in her early 20s, was inspired to travel to India in 1974

to study full time with Iyengar. The Iyengar Institute in Pune was

brand new at the time; Westerners were rare and a special three-week

intensive with extended classes and special events had been set up

for foreigners. As a result, there was little mixing with local

Indians who took the general classes and went home. Still, Western

yogis found what they were looking for.

 

"You can do the immersion in other places, but there is something

about that particular immersion," says Dunn. "Part of it is that

Iyengar has been working on this for 65 years. He has a commitment

to his practice that is without parallel." It was this level of

intensity and concentration that kept drawing students and teachers

like Dunn and others back to India. Because of those early

interactions, more in-depth knowledge of yoga began to spread to

America.

 

As a result, from the late 1960s onward, India had become a

spiritual oasis in the Western imagination. Some came for serious

yoga study, others to drop out of society for a while. But was it

really India these American yogis sought, or rather an image of

India? Was India serving as an outlet for their own frustrations and

personal odysseys rather than as a place unto itself? For many

Indians the distinction is clear.

 

Sunaina Maira, an assistant professor of Asian American Studies at

the University of Massachusetts who has written about second-

generation Indians in the United States, grew up in Pune near the

Iyengar Institute. For Maira, one of the problems of Westerners

looking to India as a land of simplified living is romanticizing the

hardships and privations that most Indians live with. "What troubles

me is that people who come to India on a pilgrimage don't have a

sense of the constraints we live under," she says. "We are not

unmaterialistic by choice. It isn't something Indian in nature.

People always valued commodities and hoarded cans of sausages; brand

names were important. My sense is [Westerners] were getting a

particular slice of India and ignoring the rest."

 

For the most part, this mind-set has remained throughout yoga's

growing influence in America, even though yoga is no longer viewed

as an esoteric practice of a devoted few. Foreigners are now

arriving in India in droves, often staying on to teach and become

part of the fabric of ashram life. Ed Rothfarb, who went to study at

the Sivananda Ashram in 1993, found half the students and teachers

were foreigners -- the swami who taught Hinduism was Italian, and

Rothfarb's hatha yoga teacher was "a really tough" Israeli, who

treated the class "like boot camp." Rothfarb noticed that many had

come to the ashram at a time of personal crisis. Because the ashram

was so crowded, Rothfarb wound up in the simpler dormitory for

Indians, which gave him a unique perspective on the milieu of the

ashram. The Indians he met came from all walks of life, though most

were well-educated and some were very interested in teaching yoga as

a career. The Westerners, he found, were a decidedly mixed

lot: "While there were some who were pretty serious, there were a

lot of young Europeans who were totally not into it; it was like a

vacation their parents had paid for."

 

FINDING MIDDLE GROUND

 

While Westerners traveled to India in greater numbers and filled the

ashrams, what of the locals? Has the Indian middle class -- the

largest in the world -- also turned to yoga with the same fervor?

 

Recently, an old friend of my father's, E. R. Desikan, was visiting

from India. Though Desi, as he's known, loves nothing better than to

have a good scotch at the Gymkhana Club, he is also a fairly

observant Brahmin; he is a vegetarian and wears the sacred yellow

thread looped around his chest. When he greeted me, he glowed with

energy. "I'm doing yoga," he said proudly. Desi used to work out

regularly at the gym and thought of yoga as something purely

contemplative and spiritual. Two years ago, after a hernia

operation, his doctor advised hatha yoga. Now 80-years-old, Desikan

does a series of 15 asanas every morning along with meditation in

the evening.

 

Desi, as it turns out, is part of a growing trend of Indians who

have turned to yoga in the wake of the Western yoga boom. Desi

attends Krishnamacharya Yogi Mandiram (KYM), the school founded by

Krishnamacharya's son, Desikachar, and now run by his grandson,

Kausthub. When I asked Kausthub if he thought Indians were

influenced by the West, he remarked ruefully, "The wind blows from

the West." But then he added, "Today it is mostly the educated or

upper middle class who are doing yoga. The center of gravity of yoga

has shifted to urban homes."

 

Ramanand Patel, an Iyengar teacher who was born in India, raised in

South Africa, and has taught around the world, definitely believes

Indians have been affected by the Western interest in yoga--but in a

positive light. "India is able to appreciate its values better

because outsiders respect them," he says. "The same medical friends

who laughed at me some years ago are now interested in what I have

to share."

 

Daniel Ghosal, an Indian American analyst and trader with Bear &

Stearns in New York City, has a unique perspective on what has been

occurring in India in the past decade. He grew up both in India and

in the United States. After graduating from college in 1991, he went

to study yoga with a medical doctor in Madras (Chennai) who

practiced alternative approaches. Ghosal was largely motivated by

medical concerns -- he suffered from asthma, among other ailments --

but yoga itself was not an alien practice to him: His sister is a

devoted Iyengar teacher, and his family in Calcutta had always been

involved in gymnastics and body building.

 

At that time, Ghosal noticed that many Indians didn't like to take

classes at the large institutes with Westerners. "Frankly, they'd

prefer to do it in an in Indian setting," he says. "They were very

judgmental of the Americans whom they saw as kind of 'cracked.' They

have an aversion to the hippie, cult thing." Instead, they preferred

small classes or private tutorials, where yoga was geared to their

individual needs. The concept of yoga being a large, social trend is

foreign to most Indians, as is the American fixation on a particular

school or lineage. "They're not as discriminating as Americans, who

come to yoga with a specific purpose and want something cultural,

the lighting of the candles and all that," says Ghosal. "To Indians,

it's just yoga."

 

However, when Ghosal returned to live in India with his wife in the

1990s, he noticed that more young Indians were beginning to show an

interest in hatha yoga. Some of this was simply that exercise had

taken hold among India's young professionals, and yoga was seen, as

it is sometimes portrayed in the mass media in America, as another

way to stay in shape. Still, in his mind, yoga is not nearly as

mainstreamed in India as it is in the West. He noticed that it was

mostly women and "progressive or alternative health types" who took

classes. "The equivalent of corporate executives in India would

generally not take yoga--they go more for golf or tennis," he says.

As for the serious yogis who flock from the West, he sees a distinct

difference from their 1960s counterparts. "This is not the

rebellious crowd," he says. "Westerners are becoming involved in a

more permanent way. It's a deeper connection."

 

HOMEFIELD ADVANTAGE

 

Yet hatha yoga probably will never have the same profound effect on

Indians as it does on Westerners, simply because it's homegrown.

Indians can study with some of the most renowned teachers without

ever leaving home, and it is often a practice they weave into their

daily life, rather than going for an intensive retreat. For

instance, Krishnamacharya Yogi Mandiram, which is a nonresidential

school, hosts 80 percent Indian students. At the Iyengar Institute,

Mary Dunn reports there is now more mixing between Indians and

Westerners, but many Indians have told me they think of yoga has

being done in separate tracks--one for Indians, one for Westerners.

As well, most of the Indians I spoke with prefer to attend a yoga

school or work with a teacher for several months, develop a specific

and personal routine that addresses their needs, and then practice

on their own time.

 

In a sense, this is the way it's always been in India; the only

difference now is that more people are doing it. Nilanjana Roy, a

Delhi-based journalist and editor told me, "For me, yoga was always

very much part of the family fitness routine in a completely

unexceptional way. My mother did yoga for her back, as did my uncle.

It was never an issue; most of the Indians I know who practice yoga

are somewhat bemused by the fuss that some Americans seem to make

over the system."

 

All along, yoga in India has been quietly growing in places far

removed from the ashrams filled with Westerners. The Bihar School of

Yoga (BSY) in Munger, Bihar, was founded in 1963 by Paramahamsa

Satyananda and is based on the notion of karma yoga--yoga as a

lifestyle. It is less well-known in the "ashram circuit" precisely

because it has chosen to serve the needs of Indians in the country.

 

"It is our intention to work for the development of Indian society,"

says Swami Niranjanananda, who took over the helm of the institute

in the late 1980s. "We have not migrated to another country like

thousands of others. This is our karma bhoomi [vocational arena]."

Interestingly, BSY's aim was to draw on the knowledge of the West

and make the study of yoga more "scientific" in order to draw

skeptical Indians and serve as a thorough research institute

covering all aspects of yoga. In 1994, Niranjanananda founded the

Bihar Yoga Bharati, the first institution for higher yogic studies,

which is affiliated with Bhagalpur University in Bihar and offers

graduate degrees in yoga.

 

Because BSY has made it a point to do outreach to corporations and

schools, many in India are familiar with Bihari Yoga, which has been

described as a cross between Iyengar and Ashtanga. Ghosal's wife,

Mallika Dutt, learned Bihari Yoga at daily classes given at the Ford

Foundation in Delhi, where she was a program officer for several

years. Even the Indian Army has been touched by yoga.

 

For years, the Army has been conducting experiments with yoga to

ascertain how it may help soldiers withstand extreme climates. In

1995, through teachers affiliated with the Bihar school, the Army

added yoga to its training, and there are plans to introduce it in

the Navy and Air Force as well. Many of the other schools, concerned

that yoga has become an elite phenomenon, are also reaching out to

other parts of Indian society. For instance, KYM has launched

several projects in which teachers from the center visit communities

to teach yoga to destitute women and children. There's also another

significant difference between yoga in India and in the West: the

very nature of the classes. Those who have studied in India often

remark that many Western classes, with their rounds of energetic Sun

Salutations, are quite removed from Indian classes, which are longer

and devote more time to mindful breathing and meditation. Srivatsa

Ramaswami, a yoga teacher who has taught both in India and the West,

notes: "My impression is that the number of people who take to

bhakti yoga through chanting, meditation, worship, and study are

increasing much faster than those who take to physical yoga alone. I

see the same trend among Americans of Indian origin in the United

States."

 

Nonetheless, some of the more athletic aspects of Western yoga have

crept into classical Indian yoga, and most teachers do not

necessarily see this as a bad thing. "In general, Indians respect

and teach more depth but ignore the benefits of a vast expanse of

other knowledge," says Iyengar instructor Ramanand Patel. "In mixing

and modifying yoga in light of other cultures, the West enriches and

expands yoga." Adds Srivatsa Ramaswami: "This physical yoga has also

become inventive. Many postures and procedures imported from other

physical systems like gymnastics, martial arts, and calisthenics are

slowly creeping into yoga instruction, pushing out more conventional

yoga procedures."

 

The problem he sees -- and it's by far the most significant -- is

its effect of countering hatha yoga's aim: The heart rate and breath

rate are actually increased rather than reduced. All of the teachers

I spoke with were concerned about the Westerners misunderstanding

yoga. Geeta Iyengar, B. K. S.'s daughter, states

bluntly, "Popularity becomes a curse. Popularity introduces

dilution. To maintain the purity of the original science and art of

yoga is a difficult task. The careful balance between orthodoxy and

modernity has to be maintained. However, dilution for the sake of

convenience and popularity is not pardonable." Adds Ramanand

Patel: "The objection is when these Western influences completely

disregard what yoga has to say."

 

Lurking beneath these comments, though, is a sensitive and thorny

issue: Is the money going to the right people? Indian yoga masters

like Iyengar, Jois, and Desikachar have made their fortunes bringing

yoga to America, but what about those not in the spotlight? This

question reminded me of when I was living in Calcutta (now Kolkotta)

years ago. Three mornings a week, a woman came to my house for yoga

instruction and massage. A refugee from East Bengal, she was

completely self-taught and had built a small business, tutoring

middle class Indians and the occasional foreigner. Though the yoga

instruction was hardly rigorous, I was struck with the woman's

ingenuity: her ability to seize a knowledge that was dormant around

her and turn it into a business that transformed her from a homeless

refugee into a successful immigrant with her own house. Yoga, she

understood, was not something static and ancient but a practice that

had flowed through her and could be passed on to a stranger living

in India for the time being. Everyone I spoke with agrees that while

yoga in the West may be diluted, it is at its purest in India:

Indians and Westerners alike come there for the depth of knowledge

one can find in no other place in the world, nurtured by generations

of gurus. This is the image of yoga in India I am left with:

continuity and flux, tradition and change -- just like the country

itself.

 

SOURCE: YOGA JOURNAL

URL: http://www.yogajournal.com/views/680_1.cfm

[Guest guest]

Thank you for sharing this article. In the Srivatsa Ramaswami book

(see messages 14928 and 14937) (who is quoted in this Yoga Journal

article), the author said that even the length of classes (usually

1.5 hours here in the Los Angeles area) and the amount of asanas

done in them is far more than traditionally recommended. He did not

have a high opinion of the many repetitions of sun salutations, nor

did he seem to favor Iyengar yoga because it rarely mentions the

breath, which is central to traditional yoga.

 

 

, "Devi Bhakta"

<devi_bhakta> wrote:

>

> Here is a longish, but very interesting and worthwhile,

perspective

> piece from the magazine, "Yoga Journal":

>

> CULTURE SHOCK: How yoga's popularity in the West is changing the

way

> Indians approach a practice created in their country thousands of

> years ago.

>

> By Marina Budhos

....

> SOURCE: YOGA JOURNAL

> URL: http://www.yogajournal.com/views/680_1.cfm

[Guest guest]

wHAT opinion do the reader's share when comes to POWER YOGA. How it is

viewed by someone who practises Hatha yoga in general. How about B.K.S.

Iyengar's yoga technique. Any opinion or comment.

 

_______________

Play online games with your friends with MSN Messenger

http://messenger.msn.nl/

[Guest guest]

I found the best Iyengar yoga classes to be taught by teachers with

a great grasp of anatomy and of the importance of proper posture in

yoga, and the ability to clearly communicate these things in their

teaching. I appreciated the use of props, and the teaching of

pranayama in restorative classes. In my personal evolution in

practicing hathayoga, in public classes I started with "flow yoga,"

meaning the repetitions of sun salutations and the 1-1/2 hour

classes in which sweating and panting is common.

 

While I loved the effects of flow yoga on my body and temperament, I

eventually felt I needed to take Iyengar yoga to learn more about

correcting alignment issues first, rather than carrying them into my

asana practice (and possibly doing damage physically). Also, at that

point, I felt my practice allowed certain mental/emotional patterns

to continue unaddressed, and I might have been content to just stay

with the changes that brought more beauty and coping skills. The

practice at that level was sort of a "release valve" in itself, if

you are familiar with that terminology from Viniyoga, or

specifically, I've read it in books by Gary Kraftsow.

 

I stopped taking Iyengar classes immediately after my mother died. I

suddenly felt a total lack of space in the Iyengar system for

something more holistic and less mechanistic. There is a harshness

in the Iyengar system, in my experience. I am glad to have developed

more understanding of proper alignment, but I want that in

conjunction with breathwork and more flowing movement. This meant

really beginning to pay attention inwardly. It's been a wonderful

journey.

 

I have not done "Power Yoga" because the name itself to me implies

less than what hathayoga truly offers.

 

 

 

, "rajeshwari iyer"

<rajii31@h...> wrote:

> wHAT opinion do the reader's share when comes to POWER YOGA.

How it is

> viewed by someone who practises Hatha yoga in general. How about

B.K.S.

> Iyengar's yoga technique. Any opinion or comment.

>

> _______________

> Play online games with your friends with MSN Messenger

> http://messenger.msn.nl/

[Guest guest]

Mary Ann wrote: "I have not done 'Power Yoga' because the name

itself to me implies less than what hathayoga truly offers."

 

Beautifully expressed! I agree completely.

 

DB

>

> , "rajeshwari iyer"

> <rajii31@h...> wrote:

> > wHAT opinion do the reader's share when comes to POWER YOGA.

[Guest guest]

I feel that the division is so vast between Iyengar yoga and yoga

that addresses and incorporates the breath and "feeling realm"

(Chakra 2), that yoga - the uniting of two seemingly opposite

principles - is required to bring these methods of teaching yoga

together! Isn't it funny that in teaching hathayoga, they/we

separate the elements out into different schools when yoga itself

brings all the elements together?

 

 

, "Devi Bhakta"

<devi_bhakta> wrote:

>

> Mary Ann wrote: "I have not done 'Power Yoga' because the name

> itself to me implies less than what hathayoga truly offers."

>

> Beautifully expressed! I agree completely.

>

> DB

>

> >

> > , "rajeshwari iyer"

> > <rajii31@h...> wrote:

> > > wHAT opinion do the reader's share when comes to POWER YOGA.

[Guest guest]

Mary Ann:

 

You are probably lean, very insightful, with a poetic imagination,

may have difficulty sticking to a rigid schedule and maybe had some

psychic experiences - if all/most are true then it is not surprising

that you place such a high importance to focusing on the breath. I

honestly do not feel that the division is that vast - Iyenger did not

emphasize it, but it is implicit in his books at least. Breath focus

is a great aid to people of a certain constitution, but others will

do just as well without focusing on the breath. Just my 2c.

 

-yogaman

 

 

, "Mary Ann"

<buttercookie61> wrote:

>

> I feel that the division is so vast between Iyengar yoga and yoga

> that addresses and incorporates the breath and "feeling realm"

> (Chakra 2), that yoga - the uniting of two seemingly opposite

> principles - is required to bring these methods of teaching yoga

> together! Isn't it funny that in teaching hathayoga, they/we

> separate the elements out into different schools when yoga itself

> brings all the elements together?

>

>

> , "Devi Bhakta"

> <devi_bhakta> wrote:

> >

> > Mary Ann wrote: "I have not done 'Power Yoga' because the name

> > itself to me implies less than what hathayoga truly offers."

> >

> > Beautifully expressed! I agree completely.

> >

> > DB

> >

> > >

> > > , "rajeshwari iyer"

> > > <rajii31@h...> wrote:

> > > > wHAT opinion do the reader's share when comes to POWER YOGA.

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to say .. Yoga is a means to ends .. and its not the ends in itself

!

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I was trained in Rhythemic Breathing method. Though asanas are slow

- but they can be very demanding. Its purpose is to massage the internal

organs. This is what I am given to understand and certainly posture also

improves.

 

After going to gym,I developed problem in my ankles. I accidently tried

Iyengar's tape and it gave me relief. Iyengar's method gives good stretch

to ligaments. But, still I prefer my old yoga.

 

Surya Namaskar that you mentioned is very demanding. It has combination of

many asanas. Beginnner's need some understanding of asanas before venturing

into surya namasker (this is my feeling).

 

Power yoga is like gymnastic. What a pity that it has gained too much

popularity. Every now and then some one come up with new names and target

public , and make a forture out of it. SILLY PUBLIC.

 

HAVE YOU HEARD OF KRIYA YOGA. CAN YOU ELABORATE ON THIS. THANKS raji.

 

 

 

>"Mary Ann" <buttercookie61

>

>

> Re: Culture Shock: Westerners, Yoga and India

>Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:43:34 -0000

>

>

>I found the best Iyengar yoga classes to be taught by teachers with

>a great grasp of anatomy and of the importance of proper posture in

>yoga, and the ability to clearly communicate these things in their

>teaching. I appreciated the use of props, and the teaching of

>pranayama in restorative classes. In my personal evolution in

>practicing hathayoga, in public classes I started with "flow yoga,"

>meaning the repetitions of sun salutations and the 1-1/2 hour

>classes in which sweating and panting is common.

>

>While I loved the effects of flow yoga on my body and temperament, I

>eventually felt I needed to take Iyengar yoga to learn more about

>correcting alignment issues first, rather than carrying them into my

>asana practice (and possibly doing damage physically). Also, at that

>point, I felt my practice allowed certain mental/emotional patterns

>to continue unaddressed, and I might have been content to just stay

>with the changes that brought more beauty and coping skills. The

>practice at that level was sort of a "release valve" in itself, if

>you are familiar with that terminology from Viniyoga, or

>specifically, I've read it in books by Gary Kraftsow.

>

>I stopped taking Iyengar classes immediately after my mother died. I

>suddenly felt a total lack of space in the Iyengar system for

>something more holistic and less mechanistic. There is a harshness

>in the Iyengar system, in my experience. I am glad to have developed

>more understanding of proper alignment, but I want that in

>conjunction with breathwork and more flowing movement. This meant

>really beginning to pay attention inwardly. It's been a wonderful

>journey.

>

>I have not done "Power Yoga" because the name itself to me implies

>less than what hathayoga truly offers.

>

>

>

>, "rajeshwari iyer"

><rajii31@h...> wrote:

> > wHAT opinion do the reader's share when comes to POWER YOGA.

>How it is

> > viewed by someone who practises Hatha yoga in general. How about

>B.K.S.

> > Iyengar's yoga technique. Any opinion or comment.

> >

> > _______________

> > Play online games with your friends with MSN Messenger

> > http://messenger.msn.nl/

>

>

>

 

_______________

Play online games with your friends with MSN Messenger

http://messenger.msn.nl/

[Guest guest]

Hmm, well, I do match that description, and I have thought that

insight, imagination, and psychic awareness are present in all.

I think yoga naturally develops these and other beneficial

aspects of being when the teaching allows / creates room for

and awareness of such other aspects of being. To me, the

breath is key to this, and I don't think Iyengar is interested in the

development of such other aspects of being; it's not his focus.

Yet, it is where yoga will lead, in my experience. And for me, to

follow where yoga leads, I needed more/other than Iyengar only.

 

 

, "childofdevi"

<childofdevi> wrote:

>

> Mary Ann:

>

> You are probably lean, very insightful, with a poetic

imagination,

> may have difficulty sticking to a rigid schedule and maybe had

some

> psychic experiences - if all/most are true then it is not

surprising

> that you place such a high importance to focusing on the

breath. I

> honestly do not feel that the division is that vast - Iyenger did

not

> emphasize it, but it is implicit in his books at least. Breath

focus

> is a great aid to people of a certain constitution, but others will

> do just as well without focusing on the breath. Just my 2c.

>

> -yogaman

>

>

> , "Mary Ann"

> <buttercookie61> wrote:

> >

> > I feel that the division is so vast between Iyengar yoga and

yoga

> > that addresses and incorporates the breath and "feeling

realm"

> > (Chakra 2), that yoga - the uniting of two seemingly opposite

> > principles - is required to bring these methods of teaching

yoga

> > together! Isn't it funny that in teaching hathayoga, they/we

> > separate the elements out into different schools when yoga

itself

> > brings all the elements together?

> >

> >

> > , "Devi Bhakta"

> > <devi_bhakta> wrote:

> > >

> > > Mary Ann wrote: "I have not done 'Power Yoga' because the

name

> > > itself to me implies less than what hathayoga truly offers."

> > >

> > > Beautifully expressed! I agree completely.

> > >

> > > DB

> > >

> > > >

> > > > , "rajeshwari

iyer"

> > > > <rajii31@h...> wrote:

> > > > > wHAT opinion do the reader's share when comes to

POWER YOGA.

[Guest guest]

Mary Ann:

 

I fully agree that breath is the key for YOU but not necessarily for

everyone. What I listed below are some characteristics for a Vata

dosha individual; they benefit the most from focusing on the breath.

At a more subtle level, focusing on the breath is adding to the earth

element(the sense of smell is associated with prithvi tatwa) in the

body which is what the Vata type individual is lacking.

 

There may be another book you are interested in since it elaborates

on a particular topic that no other book on breathing has so far

covered. The name is "Rhythmic breathing" published by Kessinger

books; it is about 100 years old and was written by a westerner who

visited India and had some training in yoga.

 

-yogaman

 

, "Mary Ann"

<buttercookie61> wrote:

>

> Hmm, well, I do match that description, and I have thought that

> insight, imagination, and psychic awareness are present in all.

> I think yoga naturally develops these and other beneficial

> aspects of being when the teaching allows / creates room for

> and awareness of such other aspects of being. To me, the

> breath is key to this, and I don't think Iyengar is interested in

the

> development of such other aspects of being; it's not his focus.

> Yet, it is where yoga will lead, in my experience. And for me, to

> follow where yoga leads, I needed more/other than Iyengar only.

>

>

> , "childofdevi"

> <childofdevi> wrote:

> >

> > Mary Ann:

> >

> > You are probably lean, very insightful, with a poetic

> imagination,

> > may have difficulty sticking to a rigid schedule and maybe had

> some

> > psychic experiences - if all/most are true then it is not

> surprising

> > that you place such a high importance to focusing on the

> breath. I

> > honestly do not feel that the division is that vast - Iyenger did

> not

> > emphasize it, but it is implicit in his books at least. Breath

> focus

> > is a great aid to people of a certain constitution, but others

will

> > do just as well without focusing on the breath. Just my 2c.

> >

> > -yogaman

> >

> >

> > , "Mary Ann"

> > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > >

> > > I feel that the division is so vast between Iyengar yoga and

> yoga

> > > that addresses and incorporates the breath and "feeling

> realm"

> > > (Chakra 2), that yoga - the uniting of two seemingly opposite

> > > principles - is required to bring these methods of teaching

> yoga

> > > together! Isn't it funny that in teaching hathayoga, they/we

> > > separate the elements out into different schools when yoga

> itself

> > > brings all the elements together?

> > >

> > >

> > > , "Devi Bhakta"

> > > <devi_bhakta> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Mary Ann wrote: "I have not done 'Power Yoga' because the

> name

> > > > itself to me implies less than what hathayoga truly offers."

> > > >

> > > > Beautifully expressed! I agree completely.

> > > >

> > > > DB

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , "rajeshwari

> iyer"

> > > > > <rajii31@h...> wrote:

> > > > > > wHAT opinion do the reader's share when comes to

> POWER YOGA.

[Guest guest]

Hi yogaman:

 

I have been in classes where rhythmic breathing is taught during

asana, and I have found it disturbing, though the book you suggest

sounds interesting. I have enjoyed rhythmic breathing in and of

itself, but not combined with asana practice so far.

 

Following are a couple more excerpts from Yoga for the Three Stages

of Life by Srivatsa Ramaswami. I quote him here because my

experiences in yoga bear this out, and apparently, it isn't only my

own experience, though of course each of us is different:

 

"Yet another important factor in asana practice is the use of breath

while doing the vinyasas and asanas. Here also, many schools teach

yoga without any reference to breathing in asana practice, and some

actually discourage the use of the breath, on the plea that the

practice of breathing is a separate "limb" of astangayoga,

pranayama. Actual practice shows however, that deliberate

synchronous breathing with vinyasas is necessary in asana practice

to attain the results mentioned in various texts. In the Yogasutras

(2.46), Patanjali mentions making use of the breath to achieve

perfection in posture, which entails steadiness and comfort (sthira

and sukha). ...."

 

The author says that in one of Patanjali's yoga sutras, Patanjali

says the mind should focus on "ananta samapattibhayam." According to

Ramaswami, 'this literally means "unbounded" or "infinity,"'

and '"ananta" also means "breath."' He states: "Thus it is correct

to say that one should mentally follow the breath while doing the

movements in the asanas. Close attention to the breath, which should

synchronize with one's movements, is samapatti, and breath is the

connecting link between mind and body."

 

 

 

, "childofdevi"

<childofdevi> wrote:

>

> Mary Ann:

>

> I fully agree that breath is the key for YOU but not necessarily

for

> everyone. What I listed below are some characteristics for a Vata

> dosha individual; they benefit the most from focusing on the

breath.

> At a more subtle level, focusing on the breath is adding to the

earth

> element(the sense of smell is associated with prithvi tatwa) in

the

> body which is what the Vata type individual is lacking.

>

> There may be another book you are interested in since it

elaborates

> on a particular topic that no other book on breathing has so far

> covered. The name is "Rhythmic breathing" published by Kessinger

> books; it is about 100 years old and was written by a westerner

who

> visited India and had some training in yoga.

>

> -yogaman

>

> , "Mary Ann"

> <buttercookie61> wrote:

> >

> > Hmm, well, I do match that description, and I have thought that

> > insight, imagination, and psychic awareness are present in

all.

> > I think yoga naturally develops these and other beneficial

> > aspects of being when the teaching allows / creates room for

> > and awareness of such other aspects of being. To me, the

> > breath is key to this, and I don't think Iyengar is interested

in

> the

> > development of such other aspects of being; it's not his focus.

> > Yet, it is where yoga will lead, in my experience. And for me,

to

> > follow where yoga leads, I needed more/other than Iyengar only.

> >

> >

> > , "childofdevi"

> > <childofdevi> wrote:

> > >

> > > Mary Ann:

> > >

> > > You are probably lean, very insightful, with a poetic

> > imagination,

> > > may have difficulty sticking to a rigid schedule and maybe had

> > some

> > > psychic experiences - if all/most are true then it is not

> > surprising

> > > that you place such a high importance to focusing on the

> > breath. I

> > > honestly do not feel that the division is that vast - Iyenger

did

> > not

> > > emphasize it, but it is implicit in his books at least. Breath

> > focus

> > > is a great aid to people of a certain constitution, but others

> will

> > > do just as well without focusing on the breath. Just my 2c.

> > >

> > > -yogaman

> > >

> > >

> > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I feel that the division is so vast between Iyengar yoga and

> > yoga

> > > > that addresses and incorporates the breath and "feeling

> > realm"

> > > > (Chakra 2), that yoga - the uniting of two seemingly

opposite

> > > > principles - is required to bring these methods of teaching

> > yoga

> > > > together! Isn't it funny that in teaching hathayoga, they/we

> > > > separate the elements out into different schools when yoga

> > itself

> > > > brings all the elements together?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "Devi Bhakta"

> > > > <devi_bhakta> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Mary Ann wrote: "I have not done 'Power Yoga' because the

> > name

> > > > > itself to me implies less than what hathayoga truly

offers."

> > > > >

> > > > > Beautifully expressed! I agree completely.

> > > > >

> > > > > DB

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "rajeshwari

> > iyer"

> > > > > > <rajii31@h...> wrote:

> > > > > > > wHAT opinion do the reader's share when comes to

> > POWER YOGA.

[Guest guest]

Agreed that the conventional version of rhythmic breathing(equalizing

the duration of the inbreath and the outbreath) is very painful

during Asanas, but the book I mentioned has nothing to do with this.

It is about a particular aspect that many commentators have hinted at

but did not state it explicitly.

 

-yogaman

 

<buttercookie61> wrote:

>

> Hi yogaman:

>

> I have been in classes where rhythmic breathing is taught during

> asana, and I have found it disturbing, though the book you suggest

> sounds interesting. I have enjoyed rhythmic breathing in and of

> itself, but not combined with asana practice so far.

>

> Following are a couple more excerpts from Yoga for the Three Stages

> of Life by Srivatsa Ramaswami. I quote him here because my

> experiences in yoga bear this out, and apparently, it isn't only my

> own experience, though of course each of us is different:

>

> "Yet another important factor in asana practice is the use of

breath

> while doing the vinyasas and asanas. Here also, many schools teach

> yoga without any reference to breathing in asana practice, and some

> actually discourage the use of the breath, on the plea that the

> practice of breathing is a separate "limb" of astangayoga,

> pranayama. Actual practice shows however, that deliberate

> synchronous breathing with vinyasas is necessary in asana practice

> to attain the results mentioned in various texts. In the

Yogasutras

> (2.46), Patanjali mentions making use of the breath to achieve

> perfection in posture, which entails steadiness and comfort (sthira

> and sukha). ...."

>

> The author says that in one of Patanjali's yoga sutras, Patanjali

> says the mind should focus on "ananta samapattibhayam." According

to

> Ramaswami, 'this literally means "unbounded" or "infinity,"'

> and '"ananta" also means "breath."' He states: "Thus it is correct

> to say that one should mentally follow the breath while doing the

> movements in the asanas. Close attention to the breath, which

should

> synchronize with one's movements, is samapatti, and breath is the

> connecting link between mind and body."

>

>

>

> , "childofdevi"

> <childofdevi> wrote:

> >

> > Mary Ann:

> >

> > I fully agree that breath is the key for YOU but not necessarily

> for

> > everyone. What I listed below are some characteristics for a Vata

> > dosha individual; they benefit the most from focusing on the

> breath.

> > At a more subtle level, focusing on the breath is adding to the

> earth

> > element(the sense of smell is associated with prithvi tatwa) in

> the

> > body which is what the Vata type individual is lacking.

> >

> > There may be another book you are interested in since it

> elaborates

> > on a particular topic that no other book on breathing has so far

> > covered. The name is "Rhythmic breathing" published by Kessinger

> > books; it is about 100 years old and was written by a westerner

> who

> > visited India and had some training in yoga.

> >

> > -yogaman

> >

> > , "Mary Ann"

> > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hmm, well, I do match that description, and I have thought that

> > > insight, imagination, and psychic awareness are present in

> all.

> > > I think yoga naturally develops these and other beneficial

> > > aspects of being when the teaching allows / creates room for

> > > and awareness of such other aspects of being. To me, the

> > > breath is key to this, and I don't think Iyengar is interested

> in

> > the

> > > development of such other aspects of being; it's not his focus.

> > > Yet, it is where yoga will lead, in my experience. And for me,

> to

> > > follow where yoga leads, I needed more/other than Iyengar only.

> > >

> > >

> > > , "childofdevi"

> > > <childofdevi> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Mary Ann:

> > > >

> > > > You are probably lean, very insightful, with a poetic

> > > imagination,

> > > > may have difficulty sticking to a rigid schedule and maybe

had

> > > some

> > > > psychic experiences - if all/most are true then it is not

> > > surprising

> > > > that you place such a high importance to focusing on the

> > > breath. I

> > > > honestly do not feel that the division is that vast - Iyenger

> did

> > > not

> > > > emphasize it, but it is implicit in his books at least.

Breath

> > > focus

> > > > is a great aid to people of a certain constitution, but

others

> > will

> > > > do just as well without focusing on the breath. Just my 2c.

> > > >

> > > > -yogaman

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > I feel that the division is so vast between Iyengar yoga

and

> > > yoga

> > > > > that addresses and incorporates the breath and "feeling

> > > realm"

> > > > > (Chakra 2), that yoga - the uniting of two seemingly

> opposite

> > > > > principles - is required to bring these methods of teaching

> > > yoga

> > > > > together! Isn't it funny that in teaching hathayoga,

they/we

> > > > > separate the elements out into different schools when yoga

> > > itself

> > > > > brings all the elements together?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , "Devi Bhakta"

> > > > > <devi_bhakta> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mary Ann wrote: "I have not done 'Power Yoga' because the

> > > name

> > > > > > itself to me implies less than what hathayoga truly

> offers."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Beautifully expressed! I agree completely.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > DB

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , "rajeshwari

> > > iyer"

> > > > > > > <rajii31@h...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > wHAT opinion do the reader's share when comes to

> > > POWER YOGA.

[Guest guest]

I once took a class in which the teacher actually had a metronome

running - not through the whole class, but for a portion of it.

 

Can you post in a nutshell what the breathing information is in the

book you recommend?

 

Mary Ann

 

 

, "childofdevi"

<childofdevi> wrote:

>

> Agreed that the conventional version of rhythmic breathing

(equalizing

> the duration of the inbreath and the outbreath) is very painful

> during Asanas, but the book I mentioned has nothing to do with

this.

> It is about a particular aspect that many commentators have hinted

at

> but did not state it explicitly.

>

> -yogaman

>

> <buttercookie61> wrote:

> >

> > Hi yogaman:

> >

> > I have been in classes where rhythmic breathing is taught during

> > asana, and I have found it disturbing, though the book you

suggest

> > sounds interesting. I have enjoyed rhythmic breathing in and of

> > itself, but not combined with asana practice so far.

> >

> > Following are a couple more excerpts from Yoga for the Three

Stages

> > of Life by Srivatsa Ramaswami. I quote him here because my

> > experiences in yoga bear this out, and apparently, it isn't only

my

> > own experience, though of course each of us is different:

> >

> > "Yet another important factor in asana practice is the use of

> breath

> > while doing the vinyasas and asanas. Here also, many schools

teach

> > yoga without any reference to breathing in asana practice, and

some

> > actually discourage the use of the breath, on the plea that the

> > practice of breathing is a separate "limb" of astangayoga,

> > pranayama. Actual practice shows however, that deliberate

> > synchronous breathing with vinyasas is necessary in asana

practice

> > to attain the results mentioned in various texts. In the

> Yogasutras

> > (2.46), Patanjali mentions making use of the breath to achieve

> > perfection in posture, which entails steadiness and comfort

(sthira

> > and sukha). ...."

> >

> > The author says that in one of Patanjali's yoga sutras,

Patanjali

> > says the mind should focus on "ananta samapattibhayam."

According

> to

> > Ramaswami, 'this literally means "unbounded" or "infinity,"'

> > and '"ananta" also means "breath."' He states: "Thus it is

correct

> > to say that one should mentally follow the breath while doing

the

> > movements in the asanas. Close attention to the breath, which

> should

> > synchronize with one's movements, is samapatti, and breath is

the

> > connecting link between mind and body."

> >

> >

> >

> > , "childofdevi"

> > <childofdevi> wrote:

> > >

> > > Mary Ann:

> > >

> > > I fully agree that breath is the key for YOU but not

necessarily

> > for

> > > everyone. What I listed below are some characteristics for a

Vata

> > > dosha individual; they benefit the most from focusing on the

> > breath.

> > > At a more subtle level, focusing on the breath is adding to

the

> > earth

> > > element(the sense of smell is associated with prithvi tatwa)

in

> > the

> > > body which is what the Vata type individual is lacking.

> > >

> > > There may be another book you are interested in since it

> > elaborates

> > > on a particular topic that no other book on breathing has so

far

> > > covered. The name is "Rhythmic breathing" published by

Kessinger

> > > books; it is about 100 years old and was written by a

westerner

> > who

> > > visited India and had some training in yoga.

> > >

> > > -yogaman

> > >

> > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hmm, well, I do match that description, and I have thought

that

> > > > insight, imagination, and psychic awareness are present in

> > all.

> > > > I think yoga naturally develops these and other beneficial

> > > > aspects of being when the teaching allows / creates room for

> > > > and awareness of such other aspects of being. To me, the

> > > > breath is key to this, and I don't think Iyengar is

interested

> > in

> > > the

> > > > development of such other aspects of being; it's not his

focus.

> > > > Yet, it is where yoga will lead, in my experience. And for

me,

> > to

> > > > follow where yoga leads, I needed more/other than Iyengar

only.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "childofdevi"

> > > > <childofdevi> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Mary Ann:

> > > > >

> > > > > You are probably lean, very insightful, with a poetic

> > > > imagination,

> > > > > may have difficulty sticking to a rigid schedule and maybe

> had

> > > > some

> > > > > psychic experiences - if all/most are true then it is not

> > > > surprising

> > > > > that you place such a high importance to focusing on the

> > > > breath. I

> > > > > honestly do not feel that the division is that vast -

Iyenger

> > did

> > > > not

> > > > > emphasize it, but it is implicit in his books at least.

> Breath

> > > > focus

> > > > > is a great aid to people of a certain constitution, but

> others

> > > will

> > > > > do just as well without focusing on the breath. Just my 2c.

> > > > >

> > > > > -yogaman

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I feel that the division is so vast between Iyengar yoga

> and

> > > > yoga

> > > > > > that addresses and incorporates the breath and "feeling

> > > > realm"

> > > > > > (Chakra 2), that yoga - the uniting of two seemingly

> > opposite

> > > > > > principles - is required to bring these methods of

teaching

> > > > yoga

> > > > > > together! Isn't it funny that in teaching hathayoga,

> they/we

> > > > > > separate the elements out into different schools when

yoga

> > > > itself

> > > > > > brings all the elements together?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "Devi Bhakta"

> > > > > > <devi_bhakta> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Mary Ann wrote: "I have not done 'Power Yoga' because

the

> > > > name

> > > > > > > itself to me implies less than what hathayoga truly

> > offers."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Beautifully expressed! I agree completely.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > DB

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > , "rajeshwari

> > > > iyer"

> > > > > > > > <rajii31@h...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > wHAT opinion do the reader's share when comes to

> > > > POWER YOGA.

[Guest guest]

>

> Can you post in a nutshell what the breathing information is in the

> book you recommend?

>

 

"Smell the breath". LOL.

 

-yogaman