Guest guest Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 so homosexuals may want to start thinking about what God might be trying to tell them. I guess one harsh lesson wasn't enough to start them thinking about where their lack of respect for sex was leading; now there has to be another, harsher lesson. Lilith M. This opinion is not very well thought out. Are the women in sub saharan Africa particularly despised by the deity? Do they lack respect for sex? Yet they are being "punished" at a much higher rate and in higher numbers than gay men. Are lesbians more beloved of the Goddess? Do we have more respect for sex? Yet we have a much lower AIDS rate than any heterosexual population, first world or third. I think it is a mistake to draw such a direct cause and effect line between disease populations and moral condemnation. The process is subtler and beyond mortal comprehension. Our solutions to the question of why bad things happen often says more about us than about reality. "Oh, obvious," said Granny. "I'll grant you it's obvious. Trouble is, just because things are obvious doesn't mean they're true." Granny Weatherwax Make your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Thank you, Seavey. The AIDS crisis can't be blamed on a "lack of respect for sex" (whatever that means!). Hindus must especially be aware that being monogamous (like Lord Rama) and being promiscuous (like Lord Krishna) are two modes of loving. It is only common sense, in these days, to use condoms and other forms of prevention of spreading STDs. -- Len/ Kalipadma --- witch seavey <witchseavey wrote: > > so > homosexuals may want to start thinking about what > God > might be trying to tell them. I guess one harsh > lesson > wasn't enough to start them thinking about where > their > lack of respect for sex was leading; now there has > to > be another, harsher lesson. > Lilith M. > > This opinion is not very well thought out. > > Are the women in sub saharan Africa particularly > despised by the deity? Do they lack respect for > sex? > Yet they are being "punished" at a much higher rate > and in higher numbers than gay men. Are lesbians > more > beloved of the Goddess? Do we have more respect for > sex? Yet we have a much lower AIDS rate than any > heterosexual population, first world or third. > > I think it is a mistake to draw such a direct cause > and effect line between disease populations and > moral > condemnation. The process is subtler and beyond > mortal comprehension. Our solutions to the question > of why bad things happen often says more about us > than > about reality. > > "Oh, obvious," said Granny. "I'll grant you it's > obvious. Trouble is, just because things are obvious > doesn't mean they're true." > Granny Weatherwax > > > > > > Make your home page > http://www./r/hs > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Lilith M says : so homosexuals may want to start thinking about what God might be trying to tell them. I guess one harsh lesson wasn't enough to start them thinking about where their lack of respect for sex was leading; now there has to be another, harsher lesson. Frankly to me, to read these words actually coming from Lilith is sickening. YOu do not make sense Lilith? What does all these got to do with the "lack of respect"? This young man ask a valid question : how can we control lust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Yes, it's amazing how much ignorance there is, especially in those who declare themselves "enlightened." I have thought that the deeper disease revealed by AIDS is just how far apart people hold love and sexuality. This distance shows up not only in the people afflicted with HIV/AIDS (harsh sex, unprotected sex, undisclosed HIV status, ignorance, fear, self-loathing, etc.), but in those blaming and condemning them. There are many diseases that exist in the world. What are we being punished for by the measles? Doesn't measles result in sterility in men? I guess we're being punished for heterosexual procreative sex by the measles then. I wonder what polio is a punishment for? Luckily, those diseases were not accompanied by the smallmindedness that attaches against the full range of human sexuality; vaccines were worked for and discovered without political haggling - of the "moral" condemnation kind, at least. There is so little understanding of the vastness of human sexuality, and so much insistance that we be defined by our genitals, and what someone else tells us we must do and not do with them! Ideas that come from religious proscriptions and other societal proscriptions that say what limited behavior is allowed for which gender are simply not the whole truth of what each human being is. In another thread, "Is Kali the beloved mother...?" a poster recommended reading Machig Lapdron, creator of Chod Buddhism, in order to understand how to approach Kali. From my reading so far, Machig Lapdron advised that the union sought in passionate sexuality is a union that can take place within oneself (without a partner). To me, that is the same assertion made by the deity Ardhanareshari, and it is the promise of yoga. If such union can occur within, much more of partnered sex would contain love and sexuality together, which is what I consider to be genuine respect, not just for sex, but for life, for love, and for humanity. (This might help with the "control of lust" issue, too.) , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> wrote: > > Lilith M says : so homosexuals may want to start thinking about what > God might be trying to tell them. I guess one harsh lesson wasn't > enough to start them thinking about where their lack of respect for > sex was leading; now there has to be another, harsher lesson. > > > Frankly to me, to read these words actually coming from Lilith is > sickening. YOu do not make sense Lilith? What does all these got to > do with the "lack of respect"? > > This young man ask a valid question : how can we control lust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 One clarification: by "love and sexuality together," I do not mean "marriage." That is another concept loaded with religious and societal charge, undergirded by religious and societal proscriptions. , "Mary Ann" <buttercookie61> wrote: > > Yes, it's amazing how much ignorance there is, especially in those > who declare themselves "enlightened." > > I have thought that the deeper disease revealed by AIDS is just how > far apart people hold love and sexuality. This distance shows up not > only in the people afflicted with HIV/AIDS (harsh sex, unprotected > sex, undisclosed HIV status, ignorance, fear, self-loathing, etc.), > but in those blaming and condemning them. There are many diseases > that exist in the world. What are we being punished for by the > measles? Doesn't measles result in sterility in men? I guess we're > being punished for heterosexual procreative sex by the measles then. > I wonder what polio is a punishment for? Luckily, those diseases > were not accompanied by the smallmindedness that attaches against > the full range of human sexuality; vaccines were worked for and > discovered without political haggling - of the "moral" condemnation > kind, at least. > > There is so little understanding of the vastness of human sexuality, > and so much insistance that we be defined by our genitals, and what > someone else tells us we must do and not do with them! Ideas that > come from religious proscriptions and other societal proscriptions > that say what limited behavior is allowed for which gender are > simply not the whole truth of what each human being is. > > In another thread, "Is Kali the beloved mother...?" a poster > recommended reading Machig Lapdron, creator of Chod Buddhism, in > order to understand how to approach Kali. From my reading so far, > Machig Lapdron advised that the union sought in passionate sexuality > is a union that can take place within oneself (without a partner). > To me, that is the same assertion made by the deity Ardhanareshari, > and it is the promise of yoga. If such union can occur within, much > more of partnered sex would contain love and sexuality together, > which is what I consider to be genuine respect, not just for sex, > but for life, for love, and for humanity. (This might help with > the "control of lust" issue, too.) > > > , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> > wrote: > > > > Lilith M says : so homosexuals may want to start thinking about > what > > God might be trying to tell them. I guess one harsh lesson wasn't > > enough to start them thinking about where their lack of respect > for > > sex was leading; now there has to be another, harsher lesson. > > > > > > Frankly to me, to read these words actually coming from Lilith is > > sickening. YOu do not make sense Lilith? What does all these got > to > > do with the "lack of respect"? > > > > This young man ask a valid question : how can we control lust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 In saddhana there is only a LOVING god and not a wrathful punishing God.The Social mores and preferences have nothing to do with spiritual practices. And further, spirituality is, IMHO, a very intensly PRIVATE matter between the individual and his chosen form of God. I am sorry there was this condemnation. It is INCORRECT and uncalled for. A simple question demands a simple answer not sermons. The answer IMHO is simple do not worry it will go if it is meant to. It is the same in meditation, attempting hard to conrol the mind results in its slipping away time and again. If you just let go of the mind while meditating without attempting to "Control" then slowly the wanderings of the mind cease and it becomes still. Let all thoughts come in, then watch what they say. Slowly the incoming of thoughts will cease and one will have REAL meditation. Similarly do not try to "destroy" lust; it will be reborn a million times like rakta bIja of the devi mahathmya. Let it have its full play and soon the mind will tire of it and it will let go. Then the feeling would have self destructed to the extent necessary for the particular individual). Mary Ann <buttercookie61 wrote: Yes, it's amazing how much ignorance there is, especially in those who declare themselves "enlightened." I have thought that the deeper disease revealed by AIDS is just how far apart people hold love and sexuality. This distance shows up not only in the people afflicted with HIV/AIDS (harsh sex, unprotected sex, undisclosed HIV status, ignorance, fear, self-loathing, etc.), but in those blaming and condemning them. There are many diseases that exist in the world. What are we being punished for by the measles? Doesn't measles result in sterility in men? I guess we're being punished for heterosexual procreative sex by the measles then. I wonder what polio is a punishment for? Luckily, those diseases were not accompanied by the smallmindedness that attaches against the full range of human sexuality; vaccines were worked for and discovered without political haggling - of the "moral" condemnation kind, at least. There is so little understanding of the vastness of human sexuality, and so much insistance that we be defined by our genitals, and what someone else tells us we must do and not do with them! Ideas that come from religious proscriptions and other societal proscriptions that say what limited behavior is allowed for which gender are simply not the whole truth of what each human being is. In another thread, "Is Kali the beloved mother...?" a poster recommended reading Machig Lapdron, creator of Chod Buddhism, in order to understand how to approach Kali. From my reading so far, Machig Lapdron advised that the union sought in passionate sexuality is a union that can take place within oneself (without a partner). To me, that is the same assertion made by the deity Ardhanareshari, and it is the promise of yoga. If such union can occur within, much more of partnered sex would contain love and sexuality together, which is what I consider to be genuine respect, not just for sex, but for life, for love, and for humanity. (This might help with the "control of lust" issue, too.) , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> wrote: > > Lilith M says : so homosexuals may want to start thinking about what God might be trying to tell them. I guess one harsh lesson wasn't enough to start them thinking about where their lack of respect for sex was leading; now there has to be another, harsher lesson. > > > Frankly to me, to read these words actually coming from Lilith is sickening. YOu do not make sense Lilith? What does all these got to do with the "lack of respect"? > > This young man ask a valid question : how can we control lust? Sponsor Children InternationalWould you give Hope to a Child in need? ·Click Here to meet a Girl And Give Her Hope·Click Here to meet a Boy And Change His Life Learn More / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Hi Kochu: Thanks for your words of excellent wisdom. BTW I think it's mumps that causes sterility in men - I got it mixed up with measles in my earlier post - I should have checked with Nora! , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > In saddhana there is only a LOVING god and not a wrathful punishing God.The Social mores and preferences have nothing to do with spiritual practices. > > And further, spirituality is, IMHO, a very intensly PRIVATE matter between the individual and his chosen form of God. > > I am sorry there was this condemnation. It is INCORRECT and uncalled for. A simple question demands a simple answer not sermons. > > The answer IMHO is simple do not worry it will go if it is meant to. It is the same in meditation, attempting hard to conrol the mind results in its slipping away time and again. If you just let go of the mind while meditating without attempting to "Control" then slowly the wanderings of the mind cease and it becomes still. Let all thoughts come in, then watch what they say. Slowly the incoming of thoughts will cease and one will have REAL meditation. > > Similarly do not try to "destroy" lust; it will be reborn a million times like rakta bIja of the devi mahathmya. Let it have its full play and soon the mind will tire of it and it will let go. Then the feeling would have self destructed to the extent necessary for the particular individual). > > > Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > Yes, it's amazing how much ignorance there is, especially in those who declare themselves "enlightened." > > I have thought that the deeper disease revealed by AIDS is just how far apart people hold love and sexuality. This distance shows up not only in the people afflicted with HIV/AIDS (harsh sex, unprotected sex, undisclosed HIV status, ignorance, fear, self- loathing, etc.), but in those blaming and condemning them. There are many diseases that exist in the world. What are we being punished for by the measles? Doesn't measles result in sterility in men? I guess we're > being punished for heterosexual procreative sex by the measles then. > I wonder what polio is a punishment for? Luckily, those diseases were not accompanied by the smallmindedness that attaches against the full range of human sexuality; vaccines were worked for and discovered without political haggling - of the "moral" condemnation kind, at least. > > There is so little understanding of the vastness of human sexuality, and so much insistance that we be defined by our genitals, and what someone else tells us we must do and not do with them! Ideas that come from religious proscriptions and other societal proscriptions that say what limited behavior is allowed for which gender are simply not the whole truth of what each human being is. > > In another thread, "Is Kali the beloved mother...?" a poster > recommended reading Machig Lapdron, creator of Chod Buddhism, in order to understand how to approach Kali. From my reading so far, Machig Lapdron advised that the union sought in passionate sexuality is a union that can take place within oneself (without a partner). > > > To me, that is the same assertion made by the deity Ardhanareshari, and it is the promise of yoga. If such union can occur within, much more of partnered sex would contain love and sexuality together, which is what I consider to be genuine respect, not just for sex, but for life, for love, and for humanity. (This might help with the "control of lust" issue, too.) > > > , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> > wrote: > > > > Lilith M says : so homosexuals may want to start thinking about what God might be trying to tell them. I guess one harsh lesson wasn't enough to start them thinking about where their lack of respect for sex was leading; now there has to be another, harsher lesson. > > > > > > Frankly to me, to read these words actually coming from Lilith is sickening. YOu do not make sense Lilith? What does all these got to do with the "lack of respect"? > > > > This young man ask a valid question : how can we control lust? > > > > > > Sponsor > Children InternationalWould you give Hope to a Child in need? ·Click Here to meet a Girl > And Give Her Hope·Click Here to meet a Boy > And Change His Life Learn More > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 buttercookie61 wrote: BTW I think it's mumps that causes sterility in men - I got it mixed up with measles in my earlier post - I should have checked with Nora! wow! I didnt know that I am an expert in Sterility especially in Men. hmmmmmm. All I know too much computer lead to sterility in both men and women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 I meant because of your knowledgeability in medicine, not specifically on the topic of sterility in men :-P , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> wrote: > > buttercookie61 wrote: BTW I think it's mumps that causes sterility > in men - I got it mixed up with measles in my earlier post - I > should have checked with Nora! > > wow! I didnt know that I am an expert in Sterility especially in > Men. hmmmmmm. All I know too much computer lead to sterility in both > men and women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Mary Ann wrote:I meant because of your knowledgeability in medicine, not specifically on the topic of sterility in men :-P Nah! Mary Ann, Im just pulling your leg. I hope they are of the same length. Hahhaaaaa. Just as I expected one young members IM me and asked : what does computer got to do with sterility. How to answer such question? Hhhhaaaaa Any suggestion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 I better check up!! United nations make me sit in front of computer 6 hours a day minimum and another 6 for personal use. ow better have a count taken immediatly!! Mary Ann wrote:I meant because of your knowledgeability in medicine, not specifically on the topic of sterility in men :-P Nah! Mary Ann, Im just pulling your leg. I hope they are of the same length. Hahhaaaaa. Just as I expected one young members IM me and asked : what does computer got to do with sterility. How to answer such question? Hhhhaaaaa Any suggestion? / Make your home page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Nora ...its a good thing I didnt ask the same queation as the other member about computer and sexuality being related. hahaha....for i almost did !!! chumki. , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > I better check up!! United nations make me sit in front of computer 6 hours a day minimum and another 6 for personal use. ow better have a count taken immediatly!! > > > Mary Ann wrote:I meant because of your knowledgeability in medicine, not specifically on the topic of sterility in men :-P > > Nah! Mary Ann, Im just pulling your leg. I hope they are of the same length. Hahhaaaaa. Just as I expected one young members IM me and asked : what does computer got to do with sterility. How to answer such question? Hhhhaaaaa Any suggestion? > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > Make your home page > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 I might mention I sent a reply to this letter but it was very conveniently deleted by I know perfectly well who, so I will not bother to publicly clarify my position on this topic, and leave you all to your cherished ignorance. Those who are not so attached to their ignorance and wish clarification, I will be happy to enlighten. Lilith M. --- witch seavey <witchseavey wrote: > > so > homosexuals may want to start thinking about what > God > might be trying to tell them. I guess one harsh > lesson > wasn't enough to start them thinking about where > their > lack of respect for sex was leading; now there has > to > be another, harsher lesson. > Lilith M. > > This opinion is not very well thought out. > > Are the women in sub saharan Africa particularly > despised by the deity? Do they lack respect for > sex? > Yet they are being "punished" at a much higher rate > and in higher numbers than gay men. Are lesbians > more > beloved of the Goddess? Do we have more respect for > sex? Yet we have a much lower AIDS rate than any > heterosexual population, first world or third. > > I think it is a mistake to draw such a direct cause > and effect line between disease populations and > moral > condemnation. The process is subtler and beyond > mortal comprehension. Our solutions to the question > of why bad things happen often says more about us > than > about reality. > > "Oh, obvious," said Granny. "I'll grant you it's > obvious. Trouble is, just because things are obvious > doesn't mean they're true." > Granny Weatherwax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 If that is the case, I guess I do not need to worry about getting pregnant, eh? Haha, kidding. Well, the computer in excess is not really good, but neither is anything else in excess when you think about it. Yes, I am still alive. College has me pretty much wrapped up so I have not been as responsive as I used to be. However, I still check posts often. Hmm...*contemplates on a quote she read* Blessings, An'ya Mary Ann wrote:I meant because of your knowledgeability in medicine, not specifically on the topic of sterility in men :-P Nah! Mary Ann, Im just pulling your leg. I hope they are of the same length. Hahhaaaaa. Just as I expected one young members IM me and asked : what does computer got to do with sterility. How to answer such question? Hhhhaaaaa Any suggestion? / Make your home page / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Why not enlighten on the message board? What you say may resonate with someone(s), may make a difference. I know words can easily be taken out of context and made to seem like something other than what was intended. What did you intend? , Lili Masamura <sephirah5> wrote: > > I might mention I sent a reply to this letter but it > was very conveniently deleted by I know perfectly well > who, so I will not bother to publicly clarify my > position on this topic, and leave you all to your > cherished ignorance. Those who are not so attached to > their ignorance and wish clarification, I will be > happy to enlighten. > Lilith M. > > > --- witch seavey <witchseavey> wrote: > > > > so > > homosexuals may want to start thinking about what > > God > > might be trying to tell them. I guess one harsh > > lesson > > wasn't enough to start them thinking about where > > their > > lack of respect for sex was leading; now there has > > to > > be another, harsher lesson. > > Lilith M. > > > > This opinion is not very well thought out. > > > > Are the women in sub saharan Africa particularly > > despised by the deity? Do they lack respect for > > sex? > > Yet they are being "punished" at a much higher rate > > and in higher numbers than gay men. Are lesbians > > more > > beloved of the Goddess? Do we have more respect for > > sex? Yet we have a much lower AIDS rate than any > > heterosexual population, first world or third. > > > > I think it is a mistake to draw such a direct cause > > and effect line between disease populations and > > moral > > condemnation. The process is subtler and beyond > > mortal comprehension. Our solutions to the question > > of why bad things happen often says more about us > > than > > about reality. > > > > "Oh, obvious," said Granny. "I'll grant you it's > > obvious. Trouble is, just because things are obvious > > doesn't mean they're true." > > Granny Weatherwax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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