Raft or No Raft?

[Guest guest]

Hi Mary Ann:

 

These are nice quotations, and they are surely true in the ultimate

sense. But they can also be traps for the unwary. Consider the

physics professor who exclaims in a moment of wonderful

clarity, "What are all these formulas and equations in the end? Just

observe nature closely and well, feel it within you, and you will

understand all you need know of the natural world."

 

Well, yeah sure, true enough ... but the professor is speaking as

one who arrived at this vision of simplicity through years of hard

intellectual labor. Now these formulae and equations are part of

his/her very being, as natural as breathing. As the old saying goes,

Everything is easy once you know how to do it. And everything

(breathing, talking, walking, reading, writing, mathematics, etc) is

difficult before it is easy.

 

It seems to me that getting us through "the difficult part" (which

is about the first 90% of any spiritual journey) is the true

function of any established religious system. Sure, there will

always be people who "use" the trappings of religion to divide, to

exclude, to foment strife and hatred. But that need not invalidate

the true system's usefulness to the serious spiritual aspirant.

 

To build on the metaphor you offer, a religious system essentially

provides us with instructions on how to build a sturdy raft that

will help us safely navigate the floodwaters. And that is something

that most people need. Sure there are spiritual geniuses who simply

intuit everything and need no raft -- just as there are scientific

geniuses who intuit the essence of physics and can immediately join

the professor in our example on the opposite bank, eschewing all of

those boring formulas and equations. But such individuals are rare

indeed. That is simply a fact.

 

The second half of your metaphor is a variation on the famous "kill

the Buddha" teaching. Which is essentially, once you've safely

crossed the floodwaters (or once you've assimilated the formulae and

equations, or once you've made the guru's teaching part of

yourself) -- the raft that got you to that point can be left behind,

lest it become a burden. This is true, there's no doubt; Amrita

explains it thus:

 

"All these rituals that we do are to help us to reach a state of

mind where it is balanced. ... Beyond all these things there is the

silence of the mind. There you don't have Her to hold on to -- the

shastras say 'niralamba margah.' There is no support, you have got

to be 'support-less.' Any kind of support that you try to hang onto

does not give you independence. If you are seeking any kind of

support -- whether it is the guru, whether it is the mantra or

whether it is an expectation -- you have got to let go of everything;

[there should be] nothing. You have to be yourself, without

expectations, and try to remain in that state."

 

That first sentence is important, though: First you have to get

there. In your raft metaphor as well, the importance of the raft in

crossing the torrent is not questioned. The danger only comes in

hanging onto the raft after it has gotten you to your destination.

 

The unwary aspirant might make the mistake of hearing this tale and

saying, "Ah, the Buddha is teaching that we don't need rafts!" But

the Buddha is himself a raft. He is not saying that Buddhism (or

Hinduism or Islam or Christianity or Paganism, or whatever) is an

unnecessary burden per se -- he is simply saying, like Amrita, that

these belief systems (whichever we may choose) are ultimately just

tools for getting us to the point where we can go it alone. But as

for getting to that point -- for most people a system of some sort

is indispensible.

 

The second quote you offer, from Elsa Gidlow [i'd never heard of

her; Google offers "lesbian poet and bon-vivant (1898-1986)"],

advises smashing mirrors, tossing out "sacred books" and idols and

gurus, etc. -- so that we can simply "discover the path we have

always been on." Sounds great, eh? Just as physics students might be

elated to find their professor suddenly tossing out formulas and

equations and textbooks. But again, everything is easy when you know

hoe to do it. And just about everything in this human life is hard

before it becomes easy. That's why shortcuts and statements

like "You're already there, you just need to realize it!" are so

attractive and inspiring -- at least in the ecstacy of the moment.

But if you've tried many shortcuts -- and who among us hasn't in

their day? -- then you know that they often end up taking

considerably longer than the tried-and-true path. When you need to

cross a dangerous torrent, that's hardly the time to toss out the

instruction book and dream up a new crossing device off the top of

your head.

 

Those are my thoughts, at least, on reading these things. Thanks for

sharing ...

 

DB

[Guest guest]

Dear DB: What is that that causes you to offer advice in response to

the quotations? And, what is the sound of one hand clapping? :-P

Anahata....

 

I think I recognize that you support yourself by offering advice. Am

I correct in that? I really like the quote you posted from Amrita.

It's especially apt for me right now; I'm dealing with some very

basic support issues (my back "went out" recently, and I am not

willing to have it go "back in" the way it's always been before).

 

What I like about the raft quote - which I forgot to say came from

Thich Nhat Hanh's Thundering Silence, Sutra on the Knowing the

Better Way to Catch a Snake book - is that the speaker (Buddha)

acknowledges that the "aspirant" as you call it is creating that

raft out of whatever is available and works. That raft can be made

of anything, like a bird's nest, whatever works for someone, whether

it's following one tradition "religiously" or taking things from

various places, including the television, at times.

 

 

 

 

, "devi_bhakta"

<devi_bhakta> wrote:

>

> Hi Mary Ann:

>

> These are nice quotations, and they are surely true in the

ultimate

> sense. But they can also be traps for the unwary. Consider the

> physics professor who exclaims in a moment of wonderful

> clarity, "What are all these formulas and equations in the end?

Just

> observe nature closely and well, feel it within you, and you will

> understand all you need know of the natural world."

>

> Well, yeah sure, true enough ... but the professor is speaking as

> one who arrived at this vision of simplicity through years of hard

> intellectual labor. Now these formulae and equations are part of

> his/her very being, as natural as breathing. As the old saying

goes,

> Everything is easy once you know how to do it. And everything

> (breathing, talking, walking, reading, writing, mathematics, etc)

is

> difficult before it is easy.

>

> It seems to me that getting us through "the difficult part" (which

> is about the first 90% of any spiritual journey) is the true

> function of any established religious system. Sure, there will

> always be people who "use" the trappings of religion to divide, to

> exclude, to foment strife and hatred. But that need not invalidate

> the true system's usefulness to the serious spiritual aspirant.

>

> To build on the metaphor you offer, a religious system essentially

> provides us with instructions on how to build a sturdy raft that

> will help us safely navigate the floodwaters. And that is

something

> that most people need. Sure there are spiritual geniuses who

simply

> intuit everything and need no raft -- just as there are scientific

> geniuses who intuit the essence of physics and can immediately

join

> the professor in our example on the opposite bank, eschewing all

of

> those boring formulas and equations. But such individuals are rare

> indeed. That is simply a fact.

>

> The second half of your metaphor is a variation on the

famous "kill

> the Buddha" teaching. Which is essentially, once you've safely

> crossed the floodwaters (or once you've assimilated the formulae

and

> equations, or once you've made the guru's teaching part of

> yourself) -- the raft that got you to that point can be left

behind,

> lest it become a burden. This is true, there's no doubt; Amrita

> explains it thus:

>

> "All these rituals that we do are to help us to reach a state of

> mind where it is balanced. ... Beyond all these things there is

the

> silence of the mind. There you don't have Her to hold on to -- the

> shastras say 'niralamba margah.' There is no support, you have got

> to be 'support-less.' Any kind of support that you try to hang

onto

> does not give you independence. If you are seeking any kind of

> support -- whether it is the guru, whether it is the mantra or

> whether it is an expectation -- you have got to let go of

everything;

> [there should be] nothing. You have to be yourself, without

> expectations, and try to remain in that state."

>

> That first sentence is important, though: First you have to get

> there. In your raft metaphor as well, the importance of the raft

in

> crossing the torrent is not questioned. The danger only comes in

> hanging onto the raft after it has gotten you to your destination.

>

> The unwary aspirant might make the mistake of hearing this tale

and

> saying, "Ah, the Buddha is teaching that we don't need rafts!" But

> the Buddha is himself a raft. He is not saying that Buddhism (or

> Hinduism or Islam or Christianity or Paganism, or whatever) is an

> unnecessary burden per se -- he is simply saying, like Amrita,

that

> these belief systems (whichever we may choose) are ultimately just

> tools for getting us to the point where we can go it alone. But as

> for getting to that point -- for most people a system of some sort

> is indispensible.

>

> The second quote you offer, from Elsa Gidlow [i'd never heard of

> her; Google offers "lesbian poet and bon-vivant (1898-1986)"],

> advises smashing mirrors, tossing out "sacred books" and idols and

> gurus, etc. -- so that we can simply "discover the path we have

> always been on." Sounds great, eh? Just as physics students might

be

> elated to find their professor suddenly tossing out formulas and

> equations and textbooks. But again, everything is easy when you

know

> hoe to do it. And just about everything in this human life is hard

> before it becomes easy. That's why shortcuts and statements

> like "You're already there, you just need to realize it!" are so

> attractive and inspiring -- at least in the ecstacy of the moment.

> But if you've tried many shortcuts -- and who among us hasn't in

> their day? -- then you know that they often end up taking

> considerably longer than the tried-and-true path. When you need to

> cross a dangerous torrent, that's hardly the time to toss out the

> instruction book and dream up a new crossing device off the top of

> your head.

>

> Those are my thoughts, at least, on reading these things. Thanks

for

> sharing ...

>

> DB

[Guest guest]

Hi Mary Ann:

 

*** Dear DB: What is that that causes you to offer advice in

response to the quotations? ***

 

You very often respond to my posts with this question, and my answer

remains the same: As a moderator, it is my "job" to keep the

conversation flowing; and I do so by responding to posts that

resonate with me for whatever reason. I imagine any active member

would say the same.

 

For what it's worth, my response was offered as opinion rather than

advice. I simply agreed with the quotes you offered and adding a bit

of personal commentary on the topic. It is what came to me. As

always, I apologize if I caused you offense.

 

*** I think I recognize that you support yourself by offering

advice. Am I correct in that? ***

 

I am not quite sure of your meaning, Mary Ann. Posting here

certainly doesn't provide me with support in any physical or

financial sense, if that's what you are saying. I want to be very

clear on that point. This is a strictly "volunteer" gig.

 

I would, however, agree in the sense that organizing my thoughts

into words very often helps me to quantify and define feelings that

might otherwise have remained at least partially inchoate. That

process could be understood as a kind of self-support, I suppose.

And I do see participation in the group as a component of my

sadhana: It keeps me mindful. ;-)

 

In a much more important sense, though, I see as

providing a forum in which we can *all* share and benefit from each

other's respective thoughts and ideas -- so that we are supporting

one another and not just ourselves alone. What is specifically to be

gained? I dunno. I suspect that it varies not only from member to

member, but also from post to post.

 

I understand that you read my posts mainly as interesting fodder for

psychological evaluation: "Why did he say that? What makes him do

that?" But others may find in them useful, practical advice or at

perhaps some food for thought. And of course, most will not read

them at all. To each according to their need; from each according to

their ability -- that's the way it works, as far as I can tell.

 

*** That raft can be made of anything, like a bird's nest, whatever

works for someone, whether it's following one

tradition "religiously" or taking things from various places,

including the television, at times. ***

 

I certainly agree. Once you're in the flow, serendipity or

synchronicity or whatever will kick in, and everything begins

speaking to you and providing the support you need.

 

DB

[Guest guest]

, "devi_bhakta"

<devi_bhakta> wrote:

> For what it's worth, my response was offered as opinion rather

than

> advice.

 

You specifially called what you offered "advice," so that's why I

asked you about that. Maybe it isn't specific to me, just as you

say, a position you choose to take as a moderator. I've just noticed

that you often "advise" in response to my posts, and I've felt you

may not actually be taking in or being with what I share on-board as

a result of that tendency, even if/when you agree with me.

 

Yes, you do understand my meaning about "self-support" through

posting. I agree, that is what's so great about the

forum, that we can all benefit from others' shared thoughts, ideas,

etc., and from sharing our own. And Shakti Sadhana is such a

wonderful because of what the members and moderators

bring here.

 

Much love to you, DB

[Guest guest]

Dear Mary Ann:

> You specifially called what you offered "advice," so that's why I

> asked you about that. Maybe it isn't specific to me, just as you

> say, a position you choose to take as a moderator. I've just noticed

> that you often "advise" in response to my posts, and I've felt you

> may not actually be taking in or being with what I share on-board as

> a result of that tendency, even if/when you agree with me.

 

Please accept my sincerest apology. It shall not happen again, you may

be assured.

 

DB

[Guest guest]

Hi - thanks. I hope my asking for mindfulness in this way does not

deter you form sharing your thoughts, ideas, and insights. It's a bit

of a distinction to make between "advice" and "thoughts, ideas, and

insights," but for me, it's a valuable distinction.

 

, "devi_bhakta"

<devi_bhakta> wrote:

>

> Dear Mary Ann:

>

> > You specifially called what you offered "advice," so that's why I

> > asked you about that. Maybe it isn't specific to me, just as you

> > say, a position you choose to take as a moderator. I've just

noticed

> > that you often "advise" in response to my posts, and I've felt you

> > may not actually be taking in or being with what I share on-board

as

> > a result of that tendency, even if/when you agree with me.

>

> Please accept my sincerest apology. It shall not happen again, you

may

> be assured.

>

> DB