Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 I like to present to this group some thoughts about kundalini. These should only give a general idea about kundalini because some things are to difficult and esoteric to be represented completely in a posting. I apologize for that. I also apologize for errors if they crept without my knowledge. This i hope will give those interested some insight in a lesser known perspective, and show a broader meaning of the Kundalini experience existing beyond the idea of a energy current only (like electricty) which is well known to most but which is only one aspect of kundalini (called more properly Pranashakti if understood as a body force) The term kundalini awakening is misleading, it is often misunderstood as if the sleeping kundalini is not active and has to be awakened to be experienced at all. This is not so: to the contrary all that we experience is caused by Kundalini, in fact our world is created by Kundalini. Kundalini is called sleeping only because this description is from a higher more enlightened viewpoint. Our normal way of perception of our life and the world around us and ourself appear as sleep and a poisonend state to a enlightened Yogi. Because the Kundalini has caused our "sleep" she is called sleeping. The sleeping Kundalini is the creative Force of the Universe She is causing our universe to appear by actively DELUDING our mind and senses thereby creating our conception of reality and our universe. Creation is always the Limitation of the Boundless. That is why she is the limiting factor (Space Time Necessity etc) (One form of Kundalini called Para Kundalini created our Universe another form of her created the mind complex she is called Chit Kundalini and another Form is found in our body called Prana Kundalini. In the awakening process each of these must be considered alone and together) She is therefore also the cause of the unawakened unenlightened (limited ) consciousness.(appearing as the World. She is therefore Jagadamba) There are countless other shaktis who delude (limit) our consciousness which arose during the creation. (In Laya Yoga some are represented in the Chakras in Sri Vidya some are represented in the avaranas of the Yantra, which is a representeation of our body and the growth of a child in the womb also) Kundalini is the embodiment of all deluding powerful shaktis. Raising the Kundalini means to become oneself awake and aware of the process of the dissolving of her shaktis ie. The delusion she had caused by spreading outward as the universe and a human being.. The normal activity of kundalini devi is the process of creation (sristhi) she is causing the delusion of duality and the human being under the influence of the devi in the crative process is entangled in worldy affairs. A human being under the influence of the sleeping kundalini follows the pravritti marga thenormal outgoing current of life the senses are bound and deluded by the the sense impressions and the mind is outwardly orientated. This perfectly in Harmony with the cosmic and human order and exemplified by the 32worldly gains a human being is allowed to achieve called artha kama within the boundary of dharma. The awakeneing of kundalini is concerned with the other current called Nivritti Marga the return to the cosmic source represented by the fourth pillar Moksha= Enlightment. When in the consciousness of a human being the will is born to be free from the worldy state and he notices his state of slavery and bondage of the worldy enjoyments (artha and kama) and wants to escape another current of energy is initiated thats why it is called the backward current nivritti marga or urdhva marg. (sthithi= withdrawal) (there are also 2 modes of Avarana worship in sri vidya one of withdrawal and one of creation sthiti /sristhi. The one is for worldly gains (mostly practised by samaya marga) the other for moksha. This turning point and the inward turning is a very natural flow of life like the in and outbreath, or the heartbeat. After outward projection and sense entangelment follows the inward movement and disentanglement and return to the source. This is the only healthy approach. Because of this awakening of the mind of the human being the sleeping poisonend state of the outward turnend world creating kundalini changes and she also begins to turn inward and she involutes that means she is destroying the world of delusion she once created. In Laya Yoga this dissolution is achieved by a series of Meditations on the Chakras. In Srividya by a similar series of Meditation based on the Sri yantra. Also the Bhutashuddhi practise found in many Traditions is a practice concernend with the Laya of the Bhutas and Kundalini. Similiarly the Bandhas and Kriyas of Ha tha Yoga dissolve the created body shaktis and awaken Prana Kundalini. (or Pranashakti) The Dhyana of Ishta Devata in the Chakras and Adharas is used as a important Laya process and as a means of inward turning also. All these methods interact and are valid means The movement of the sleeping poisonend deluded kundalini outwards toward worldly enjoyment and illusion is also called the dakshina marga (the way of creating and maintaining worlds for enjoyment) The way of the Kundalini which is turned inward towards realisation of the self and awake awareness) which also means reversing the energy (prana) of the sense organs) is called vama marga or left turning process. The common interpretations of vama marga and dakshina marga are not touched by this it is simply another possible interpretation in the context of Kundalini Yoga. The objective world around us our idea about it (the impression in our mind and our mind itself gradually vanish and are dissolved. Before a human being can follow this Path of Laya-Yoga which means translated Yoga of dissolution some qualities have to be present in his mind stream at the moment he enters the upward flowing current. One main Quality is the disgust for Samsara the other is the wish or will to be awake aware or achieve enlightment. Disgust for samsara is an absolute necessary state of mind for the kundalini process changing from sristhi to sththi, you must have realised the transitory nature of the world of the sense impression and the futility of attachments to worldly ideas and goods. Because the creation and maintenance of the universe for enjoyment is the realm of the sleeping kundalini you cannot be attached to it and leave it for the upward journey at the same time. After the rise and downward movement of Kundalini you may return to sense enjoyment and even use it as a means and practice but on a refined level, but you must disattach completly first. (Even from your Attachment to your body for achievement of space travel –called khechari mudra) The sleeping Kundalini is thought to reside in the muladhara chakra coiled 3 and a half times around a Linga The first coil represents the knower in bondage (pashu): Yourself. Kundalini is asleep because of the attachment to the idea of yourself. This idea of yourself does most oft not coincide with what others think of you- usually you feel that you are much better person then the others or you feel inferior. Also most often it is influenced by your worldly achievements by monetary or scholarly achievements or it is influenced by outward appearance. To awake kundalini you have to destroy the erroneus idea you have of yourself completely. Only then the natural state of mind can shine forth (called "sahaja" in Yoga) The second coil or bondage is the point of contact between the self and the outer world. The means of knowledge. This contact functions through the activity of your sense organs. Here in the unenlightened state the flow is outwards toward the enjoyment and attachment to the sense impressions. This causes the second coil of the sleeping kundalini. Awakened Kundalini shines forth as a light (jyothir) in the sense organs and the five pranas and can be awakened by turning mind and sense impression inward. The third coil is representing the outer world known to you by the activity of the five sense organs. This is called the thing to be known (Object of Knowledge) and your attachment to the pleasing sense impressions and your repulsion for the unpleasing keeps kundalini asleep here Only with no attachment (love or desire) or repulsion (hate- aggression) to any sense impression kundalini can awake.. These three functions are also be called "the Measurer" the measuring stick" and the "Thing to be measured". (Also known and represented as the three lights: Sun Moon and Fire these are most intimately connected with some methods of Kundalini Meditations) Kundalini is a snake that can be awakened by hitting it with Stick but this is a secret stick everybody has it but only a few know how to wield it the cause of both pain and pleasure (your measuring stick = your sense organs and impressions) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 Kundalini is a snake that can be awakened by hitting it with Stick but this is a secret stick everybody has it but only a few know how to wield it the cause of both pain and pleasure (your measuring stick = your sense organs and impressions) ----Not being an expert in yoga, all I can offer is the experience of someone I know, and that is this. Kundalini means "lock of hair," not snake. This is because kundalini is smoother and thinner than the finest hair. Subatomic. Also, it is awakened by a force softer than the brushing of hair against one in a breeze. The flow of kundalini is like hair under water. Kundalini is awakened most often through direct contact with someone else who is awakened. And this can happen anywhere as those with awakened kundalini cannot but know of it, and cannot but also suffuse all those with whom they interact with that Sakti. people with activated Sakti can tell what other people are close to awakening by the light in that person's eyes. Though kundalini does not mean snake, nonetheless she is a snake which can be claravoyantly ascertained. She lies at the root chakra and She is the Trisakti. She lies coiled and always remains coiled. Only her head raises up and hisses, or it remains down and one has no higher experience. Next to her is the linga. She is only coiled around the linga before she raises her head, then she removes off to a short distance and hisses forevermore, the more so when the linga is watered with attention. One would not nor could not hit kundalini with a stick as there's no form to hit. Of course this was an analogy and the stick was supposed to really mean the mind. My friend says that the mind raises kundalini better when it acts like a goad pulling the kundalini, not like beating a stick. Even a mantra acts more like a suture which with kundalini stiches up the loose ends of the mind into silence. The mind before kundalini used to be like a filthy and useless sack which could hold nothing, but over time kundalini repairs and cleans the sack and fills the sack with bliss until it is full. Kundalini hisses like a pressure seal when the mind engages in its contemplation, and one clears into their primordial nature of the empty awareness as spontaneous pratayahara commences. Kundalini comes into play when the senses become removed from their objects because at that point one loses body identification and something must rise up to fill the gap of incredulity created. For this reason many people with awakened kundalini who have spontaneously stopped identifying with the body but who have not had the requisite mental training just go completely bonkers. Some see the lights of the celestial palaces without any knowledge and either grow great egos, or they think that they have found the "only true path." With proper help and guidance kundalini is as soft as hair, and she is ones finest support for practice, in fact, she becomes ones best friend. With no guidance she resembles the whole host of demons ripping one to shreds as the ego loses its hold but with no wisdom finds no refuge anywhere. So get it from your guru unless you're especially strong mentally. Many drug addicts have awakened kundalini but cannot stand the added mental functioning and so try to tamp it down with artificial means. Additionally many insane people are kundalini-positive, but they were not knowers of reality as the Absolute, or they had no Ishta, and so no prop for their mind. For those with proper knowledge kundalini is the great mind protector because her bliss helps one to cross this ocean of sorrows called samsara. For those truely desirous a mere few moments imagining Mahakali and using her mantra can awaken kundalini if one has nothing to lose. My friend says she hopes someone can utilize her insights. Jai Ma. Any merit from this writing is dedicated to all those suffering. May they be free of pain and enjoy equanimity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 The picture of the snake is not important, this energy is pictured in many ways, the snake is a fairly "new" symbol. The Devi residing in the Chakras has also been symbolised by a goddess in human form, a fire ,a small red point, a red line etc. The Stick i am talking about is the point of contact between the world and yourself. That is where you can meet kundalini. (This is called: Kama Kala paaramarsaanusaaren. If you use a sanskrit dictionary Kama translates as Love but the meaning in the context of Yoga meditation is different because it is an esoteric technical term.) That is the unification of your eyes with what they see, your ears with what you hear etc. The Yogi meditates on these unions (samavesa) when they occur and experiences saktikundalini. (Hitting with a stick means using the sense organs. Another technical term for the connection of yourself and the shaktis of the prana in your body is: Union of Siddha and Yogini (Siddha Yogini sangahaattamakam samavesarama) this happens when the mind takes , "Eve__69" <eve__69@h...> wrote: > Kundalini is a snake that can be awakened by hitting it with Stick > but this is a secret stick everybody has it but only a few know how > to wield it the cause of both pain and pleasure (your measuring > stick = your sense organs and impressions) > > ----Not being an expert in yoga, all I can offer is the experience of someone I know, and that is this. Kundalini means "lock of hair," not snake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 So much heat over a few symbols. Chill Babe. - mahahradanatha Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:03 AM Re: Kundalini The picture of the snake is not important, this energy is pictured in many ways, the snake is a fairly "new" symbol. The Devi residing in the Chakras has also been symbolised by a goddess in human form, a fire ,a small red point, a red line etc. The Stick i am talking about is the point of contact between the world and yourself. That is where you can meet kundalini. (This is called: Kama Kala paaramarsaanusaaren. If you use a sanskrit dictionary Kama translates as Love but the meaning in the context of Yoga meditation is different because it is an esoteric technical term.) That is the unification of your eyes with what they see, your ears with what you hear etc. The Yogi meditates on these unions (samavesa) when they occur and experiences saktikundalini. (Hitting with a stick means using the sense organs. Another technical term for the connection of yourself and the shaktis of the prana in your body is: Union of Siddha and Yogini (Siddha Yogini sangahaattamakam samavesarama) this happens when the mind takes , "Eve__69" <eve__69@h...> wrote: > Kundalini is a snake that can be awakened by hitting it with Stick > but this is a secret stick everybody has it but only a few know how > to wield it the cause of both pain and pleasure (your measuring > stick = your sense organs and impressions) > > ----Not being an expert in yoga, all I can offer is the experience of someone I know, and that is this. Kundalini means "lock of hair," not snake. Links / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 I have thought that the Gadsden flag from the American Revolution borrowed from the kundalini serpent imagery due to its featuring a 3 coiled serpent. Here's a link at which you can view a picture of the flag. http://www.Gadsden.info/history.html I liked thinking this because yoga has caught on in the west, and despite the various judgments about how it is practiced or taught here (which I have read here of late), that yoga is even in the west at all, and is popular, itself speaks volumes for its value. Another thought: someone posted the other day that a person only gets to a place of enlightenment by first feeling "disgust" with aspects of physicality (these are my words, what I got from the post, which had to do with yoga, body mechanics, and the discussion of kundalini awakening). To me, the "disgust" referred to sounded like aversion, as in attraction/aversion, samsara, etc. Could there be a better word than "disgust" to describe what was meant? , "Eve__69" <eve__69@h...> wrote: > So much heat over a few symbols. Chill Babe. > - > mahahradanatha > > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:03 AM > Re: Kundalini > > > > > > The picture of the snake is not important, this energy is pictured in > many ways, the snake is a fairly "new" symbol. The Devi residing in > the Chakras has also been symbolised by a goddess in human form, a > fire ,a small red point, a red line etc. > The Stick i am talking about is the point of contact between the > world and yourself. That is where you can meet kundalini. (This is > called: Kama Kala paaramarsaanusaaren. If you use a sanskrit > dictionary Kama translates as Love but the meaning in the context of > Yoga meditation is different because it is an esoteric technical > term.) > > That is the unification of your eyes with what they see, your ears > with what you hear etc. The Yogi meditates on these unions (samavesa) > when they occur and experiences saktikundalini. (Hitting with a > stick means using the sense organs. > Another technical term for the connection of yourself and the shaktis > of the prana in your body is: Union of Siddha and Yogini (Siddha > Yogini sangahaattamakam samavesarama) this happens when the mind takes > > > > > , "Eve__69" <eve__69@h...> wrote: > > Kundalini is a snake that can be awakened by hitting it with Stick > > but this is a secret stick everybody has it but only a few know how > > to wield it the cause of both pain and pleasure (your measuring > > stick = your sense organs and impressions) > > > > ----Not being an expert in yoga, all I can offer is the experience > of someone I know, and that is this. Kundalini means "lock of hair," > not snake. > > > > > > > Links > > > / > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of Service. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 ---that yoga is even in the west at all, and is popular, itself speaks volumes for its value. ---People criticize Westerners like we're some dopes here. But the fact that the gurus of the world come to us rather than us going to them also speaks volumns about merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 I am sorry i do not know much about american history, so i cannot comment on the flag. I know that the Indian flag should have been originally in orange color- only becuase mahatma gandhi was objecting against that, ist is the way it is now. But on to the other question i can comment: Inner Development is a natural process as i said just like inbreath and outbreath, or the heartbeat. This turning point of the outward and inward current is marked by disgust towards the outward movement (the outer world with the attachment to name and form only) this is because the outward movement has simply exhausted all its power and you are left without any aim so to stay alive you have turn back and dissolve all you have achieved (the universe). You could say you breath in because of disgust for the outward breath Life is constantly propelled onwards by aversion and repulsion, being attached to the 2 is the main factor that causes avidya. Being non attached to them means being able to watch and understandthe effect and interreleation of these forces and gives one a valuable help in furthering ones spiritual development. If you meditate on your breath process you do not stop the in and outward movement you only begin to watch it. You go through a small death process at the turning point of each breath. Kundalini awakening can happen at the end of the old breath and the beginning of the new. Kundalini is also concernend with the real physical death experience (the sequence of the dissolving of the tattwas (elemenst) during the ascent of Kundalini is occuring in the same sequence during the process of death of the physical body (this happens also while falling asleep) Meditating on this moment of falling asleep is therefore one method of Yoga meditation connected with the same yoga teching that is concerned with the awakening of kundalini. During the end of the breath tattwas dissolve quickly, so fast you usually do not notice that you go through a death process your world gets dissolved (like in the Laya-Kundalini meditation) at the end of each breath also naturally but very fast. It requires a high degree of awareness to stay awake and remember yourself to experience the samadhi at the end of breath,because we fall into unconciousness in that very moment and forget immediately afterwards where we have been and what we have experienced. If you meditate at the turning point of the breath the first sign of success will be if you notice that you glide into unconciousness and come out again,the next step would be to try to stay awake-aware multiplied by 3. Some teachers say that the process of Kundalini meditation using the symbols of the chakra and the spine etc. are artifical and do not work as well as the meditation on the natural processes like breath, sleep state meditation etc. , "Mary Ann" <buttercookie61> wrote: > > I have thought that the Gadsden flag from the American > Revolution borrowed from the kundalini serpent imagery due to > its featuring a 3 coiled serpent. Here's a link at which you can > view a picture of the flag. http://www.Gadsden.info/history.html I > liked thinking this because yoga has caught on in the west, and > despite the various judgments about how it is practiced or taught > here (which I have read here of late), that yoga is even in the > west at all, and is popular, itself speaks volumes for its value. > > Another thought: someone posted the other day that a person > only gets to a place of enlightenment by first feeling "disgust" > with aspects of physicality (these are my words, what I got from > the post, which had to do with yoga, body mechanics, and the > discussion of kundalini awakening). To me, the "disgust" > referred to sounded like aversion, as in attraction/aversion, > samsara, etc. Could there be a better word than "disgust" to > describe what was meant? > , "Eve__69" > <eve__69@h...> wrote: > > So much heat over a few symbols. Chill Babe. > > - > > mahahradanatha > > > > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:03 AM > > Re: Kundalini > > > > > > > > > > > > The picture of the snake is not important, this energy is > pictured in > > many ways, the snake is a fairly "new" symbol. The Devi > residing in > > the Chakras has also been symbolised by a goddess in > human form, a > > fire ,a small red point, a red line etc. > > The Stick i am talking about is the point of contact between > the > > world and yourself. That is where you can meet kundalini. > (This is > > called: Kama Kala paaramarsaanusaaren. If you use a > sanskrit > > dictionary Kama translates as Love but the meaning in the > context of > > Yoga meditation is different because it is an esoteric > technical > > term.) > > > > That is the unification of your eyes with what they see, your > ears > > with what you hear etc. The Yogi meditates on these unions > (samavesa) > > when they occur and experiences saktikundalini. (Hitting with > a > > stick means using the sense organs. > > Another technical term for the connection of yourself and the > shaktis > > of the prana in your body is: Union of Siddha and Yogini > (Siddha > > Yogini sangahaattamakam samavesarama) this happens > when the mind takes > > > > > > > > > > , "Eve__69" > <eve__69@h...> wrote: > > > Kundalini is a snake that can be awakened by hitting it with > Stick > > > but this is a secret stick everybody has it but only a few know > how > > > to wield it the cause of both pain and pleasure (your > measuring > > > stick = your sense organs and impressions) > > > > > > ----Not being an expert in yoga, all I can offer is the > experience > > of someone I know, and that is this. Kundalini means "lock of > hair," > > not snake. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > b.. > > > > > > c.. Terms > of Service. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 I am sorry i do not understand this comment, please explain it to me. > So much heat over a few symbols. Chill Babe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 It meants something like this. Stop worrying about a lock of hair and a snake and reduce the heat of your personality with some coolness. Because if you combine the hot and cool then you will find them united in the central channel. - mahahradanatha Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:05 AM Re: Kundalini I am sorry i do not understand this comment, please explain it to me. > So much heat over a few symbols. Chill Babe. Links / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 I thought we were discussing methods of kundalini meditation, not the mental state of the participants in that discussion. But surely my remarks on kundalini proper are not "off topic"? My interest is in the sadhana, sorry that I am not interested in discussing the mental state of the members of this group, including my own. , "Eve__69" <eve__69@h...> wrote: > It meants something like this. Stop worrying about a lock of hair and a snake and reduce the heat of your personality with some coolness. Because if you combine the hot and cool then you will find them united in the central channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Thank you for taking the time to post this. I posted another description of enlightenment on this topic that uses the word "fun" which may not be impressive to some, but I like it better than "disgust." , "mahahradanatha" <mahahradanatha> wrote: > > > I am sorry i do not know much about american history, so i cannot > comment on the flag. > I know that the Indian flag should have been originally in orange > color- only becuase mahatma gandhi was objecting against that, ist is > the way it is now. > But on to the other question i can comment: > Inner Development is a natural process as i said just like inbreath > and outbreath, or the heartbeat. > This turning point of the outward and inward current is marked by > disgust towards the outward movement (the outer world with the > attachment to name and form only) this is because the outward > movement has simply exhausted all its power and you are left without > any aim so to stay alive you have turn back and dissolve all you have > achieved (the universe). You could say you breath in because of > disgust for the outward breath > > Life is constantly propelled onwards by aversion and repulsion, being > attached to the 2 is the main factor that causes avidya. Being non > attached to them means being able to watch and understandthe > effect and interreleation of these forces and gives one a valuable > help in furthering ones spiritual development. > > If you meditate on your breath process you do not stop the in and > outward movement you only begin to watch it. > > You go through a small death process at the turning point of each > breath. Kundalini awakening can happen at the end of the old breath > and the beginning of the new. > > Kundalini is also concernend with the real physical death > experience (the sequence of the dissolving of the tattwas (elemenst) > during the ascent of Kundalini is occuring in the same sequence > during the process of death of the physical body (this happens > also while falling asleep) > > Meditating on this moment of falling asleep is therefore one method > of Yoga meditation connected with the same yoga teching that is > concerned with the awakening of kundalini. > > During the end of the breath tattwas dissolve quickly, so fast you > usually do not notice that you go through a death process your world > gets dissolved (like in the Laya-Kundalini meditation) at the end of > each breath also naturally but very fast. > It requires a high degree of awareness to stay awake and remember > yourself to experience the samadhi at the end of breath,because we > fall into unconciousness in that very moment and forget immediately > afterwards where we have been and what we have experienced. > If you meditate at the turning point of the breath the first sign of > success will be if you notice that you glide into unconciousness and > come out again,the next step would be to try to stay awake-aware > multiplied by 3. > > Some teachers say that the process of Kundalini meditation using the > symbols of the chakra and the spine etc. are artifical and do not > work as well as the meditation on the natural processes like breath, > sleep state meditation etc. > > , "Mary Ann" > <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > > I have thought that the Gadsden flag from the American > > Revolution borrowed from the kundalini serpent imagery due to > > its featuring a 3 coiled serpent. Here's a link at which you can > > view a picture of the flag. http://www.Gadsden.info/history.html I > > liked thinking this because yoga has caught on in the west, and > > despite the various judgments about how it is practiced or taught > > here (which I have read here of late), that yoga is even in the > > west at all, and is popular, itself speaks volumes for its value. > > > > Another thought: someone posted the other day that a person > > only gets to a place of enlightenment by first feeling "disgust" > > with aspects of physicality (these are my words, what I got from > > the post, which had to do with yoga, body mechanics, and the > > discussion of kundalini awakening). To me, the "disgust" > > referred to sounded like aversion, as in attraction/aversion, > > samsara, etc. Could there be a better word than "disgust" to > > describe what was meant? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Eve__69" > > <eve__69@h...> wrote: > > > So much heat over a few symbols. Chill Babe. > > > - > > > mahahradanatha > > > > > > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:03 AM > > > Re: Kundalini > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The picture of the snake is not important, this energy is > > pictured in > > > many ways, the snake is a fairly "new" symbol. The Devi > > residing in > > > the Chakras has also been symbolised by a goddess in > > human form, a > > > fire ,a small red point, a red line etc. > > > The Stick i am talking about is the point of contact between > > the > > > world and yourself. That is where you can meet kundalini. > > (This is > > > called: Kama Kala paaramarsaanusaaren. If you use a > > sanskrit > > > dictionary Kama translates as Love but the meaning in the > > context of > > > Yoga meditation is different because it is an esoteric > > technical > > > term.) > > > > > > That is the unification of your eyes with what they see, your > > ears > > > with what you hear etc. The Yogi meditates on these unions > > (samavesa) > > > when they occur and experiences saktikundalini. (Hitting with > > a > > > stick means using the sense organs. > > > Another technical term for the connection of yourself and the > > shaktis > > > of the prana in your body is: Union of Siddha and Yogini > > (Siddha > > > Yogini sangahaattamakam samavesarama) this happens > > when the mind takes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Eve__69" > > <eve__69@h...> wrote: > > > > Kundalini is a snake that can be awakened by hitting it with > > Stick > > > > but this is a secret stick everybody has it but only a few > know > > how > > > > to wield it the cause of both pain and pleasure (your > > measuring > > > > stick = your sense organs and impressions) > > > > > > > > ----Not being an expert in yoga, all I can offer is the > > experience > > > of someone I know, and that is this. Kundalini means "lock of > > hair," > > > not snake. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ > > > Links > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > b.. > > > > > > > > > c.. Terms > > of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Sorry, but my friend felt that you offended her when you came back in a rather self righteous and tutorial manner after she had so openly offered her personal experience for purview, so in spite of your objections to the contrary, your responses were in fact sort of 'hot.' She really wanted to tell you that you seem well versed in typical kundalini lore, but lacking in personal experience. She held back and now the results are your confusion, and her feeling sorry for having ever entered the conversation in the first place. Are you in fact a Nath? I thought that Naths were supposed to really really understand the kundalini. But understanding doesn't quite fit the textbook definition though subtle sophistry may make it seem thus. To wit, of what use is understanding which tattvas go where and what they do. At which point of fineness of a hairs width will you be able to make kundalini rise when She Herself only can grant her benefit? To make a definition of what will or wont stimulate kundalini is mere egoism. Where kundalini is, avidya is not. There can be no union of the two. When kundalini practice makes too much sense then it's a sure sign that avidya in tandem with the ego is trying to control the controller Herself. If the path is of uncovering that which superceeds intellect, then no amount of understanding will produce results. When people explain things to me in detail then I find them lacking the necessary heart quality which is itself the most important of distilled drops of the philosophy. To wit, many intellectuals reason away poverty, slavery and fear, so that the egoic nature of the beast will pass these by without feeling, whereas the heart will suffer for these qualities in others. The intellect is the true source of evil action, as it also is the most powerful drug in the world, because it stimulates the ego to megalomania, especially in wayward spiritual aspirants. Whereas in simplicity one will see the tears in the child's eyes and give them half of ones lunch. Should one not share then kundalini be damned because what's her greatest value? Compassion. That's all! We were only trying to tell you to check yourself, as you're preaching to the converted here. If you say kundalini exists to the right then I'm here to tell you that it exists also to the left. That's all. Beyond the few words you spoke I know nothing of you, so please do not be offended when I missed the mark. I exist to tell you that I am certain that I have mistaken you for something that you are not. My guess is that you are here to help as I am, I just am constantly striving to separate those who obfuscate from those who simplify. Tantra is easy, religion is difficult. - mahahradanatha Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:17 AM Re: Kundalini I thought we were discussing methods of kundalini meditation, not the mental state of the participants in that discussion. But surely my remarks on kundalini proper are not "off topic"? My interest is in the sadhana, sorry that I am not interested in discussing the mental state of the members of this group, including my own. , "Eve__69" <eve__69@h...> wrote: > It meants something like this. Stop worrying about a lock of hair and a snake and reduce the heat of your personality with some coolness. Because if you combine the hot and cool then you will find them united in the central channel. Links / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 mahahradanatha wrote: "Disgust for samsara is an absolute necessary state of mind for the kundalini process changing from sristhi to sththi" I don't agree with you, cause that would mean a psychopatic (lovefree) attitude to all your fellow beings, the nature, the animals and life itself. Regards Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 1. I consider personal experiences a matter between the human devotee and the Devata of his choice only. I do not comment on others experiences or attainment. Thats why my only comment to your/your friends posting was that there are a lot of different ways to experience kundalini based on the mind set and senses of the individual. What is true for your friend might be but need not be necessarily true for someone else. 2.I do not wish to discuss comments about my experiences either. So i wont discuss your friends and your doubts and critics about my person or my "attainments" these where never part of my posting. I consider this "off topic" If you want to discuss the attainment of "Mahahradhanatha" or wheter he is a nath or not, has kundalini experience or not, or if you like to discuss my motives for posting this is open to you, do as you wish, but to what avail? I remember someone saying there are about 330 million gods and godesses worshipped in india, each one with devotees and each connected with a differing philsophy and practices. There is enough room for all of them to exist beside each other. I sincerely believe (or should i say hope) that there is enough room for my exposition and your friends experience to exist beside each other in this group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Then the heartbeat or breathing is also psychopathic, because it is governend by the Law of Repulsion and Attraction? Everything that expands has to retract also. Everything that lives will finally die and decompose. If you are on a outward expansive current you should not awaken kundalini only if you are on an inward bound current, this inward bound current is always associated with an attraction towards the spiritual and a repulsion (disgust) toward Samsara. Samsara means the vicious cycle of ever recurring births and deaths. The ultimate Aim of EVERY Religion that EVER originated in India is to eventually escape from Samsara. Disgust for Samsara is the COMMON BASE of all Asian Religions including most Religions of the Far east. Maybe you picked the wrong hobby? , Lars Hedström <lars@2...> wrote: > > mahahradanatha wrote: > > "Disgust for samsara is an absolute necessary state of mind for the kundalini process changing from sristhi to sththi" > > I don't agree with you, cause that would mean a psychopatic (lovefree) attitude to all your fellow beings, the nature, the animals and life itself. > > Regards > > Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 I don't think it is accurate to put together the expansion and contraction of heart and breath with the concepts of aversion and attraction. There is no "disgust" in the heart's beating or the lungs' expansion or contraction. The organs are simply doing their jobs. Also, the use of the word "disgust," no matter how often you assert it, and even quote others who assert it, gurus, Amma, etc. will not make it work for everyone. As you say, differences can co- exist, and no personal slights are called for. This post seems like you're not heeding your own advice, and the smiley icon doesn't hide that. , "mahahradanatha" <mahahradanatha> wrote: > > > Then the heartbeat or breathing is also psychopathic, because it is > governend by the Law of Repulsion and Attraction? > Everything that expands has to retract also. Everything that lives > will finally die and decompose. > If you are on a outward expansive current you should not awaken > kundalini only if you are on an inward bound current, this inward > bound current is always associated with an attraction towards the > spiritual and a repulsion (disgust) toward Samsara. Samsara means the > vicious cycle of ever recurring births and deaths. The ultimate Aim > of EVERY Religion that EVER originated in India is to eventually > escape from Samsara. Disgust for Samsara is the COMMON BASE of all > Asian Religions including most Religions of the Far east. > Maybe you picked the wrong hobby? > > > , Lars Hedström <lars@2...> > wrote: > > > > mahahradanatha wrote: > > > > "Disgust for samsara is an absolute necessary state of mind for the > kundalini process changing from sristhi to sththi" > > > > I don't agree with you, cause that would mean a psychopatic > (lovefree) attitude to all your fellow beings, the nature, the > animals and life itself. > > > > Regards > > > > Lars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Mahahradanatha wrote: "The ultimate Aim of EVERY Religion that EVER originated in India is to eventually escape from Samsara. Disgust for Samsara is the COMMON BASE of all Asian Religions including most Religions of the Far east. Maybe you picked the wrong hobby? :)" But I do not practice any dogmatic religion, I am constructing and practizing my own religion. One great person - or guru - is Paul Brunton. "Not to escape life, but to articulate it, is philosophy's practical goal." - Paul Brunton This is my life-sentence. In one of his books Brunton tells how he during a trip to Himalaya visited a holy man living in the mountains. When he was to leave the holy man invited him to stay, but Brunton wanted to go back to West. The holy man asked why he wanted to return to West. Brunton answered that he had work to do there. Then the holy man said that only desire could get a human to leave the spiritual silence among the mountains of Himalya. Then he read the following quotation: "God + desire = human. Human - desire = God. " Brunton left the holy man. To Brunton he represented the old-fashioned spiritual ideal, which only finds evil in worldly activity. From his viewpoint he was ofcourse right, but Brunton was convinced that he himself also was right from his own viewpoint. Only that human can return to the world, with all its temptations and tryings, who master them alrady in his hearth. The best thing for all other people is to stay away from the world where the temptations do not reach them, is Bruntons message. Brunton also give examples on people who have lost their spirtuality due to worldly activities and temptations. Brunton's homepage where there is more to read about him and his philosophy (not a western one) which is a mixture between east and west: http://www.paulbrunton.org/ Regards Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Just my two cents. There WERE 330 million Gods; now the figure has grown to 1.2+ Billion. Regarding Kundalini I know next to nothing. I been trying to goad it with sticks and whatnot for 30+ years. But the fellow has not even stirred in his/her/its sleep even mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha wrote: 1. I consider personal experiences a matter between the human devotee and the Devata of his choice only. I do not comment on others experiences or attainment. Thats why my only comment to your/your friends posting was that there are a lot of different ways to experience kundalini based on the mind set and senses of the individual. What is true for your friend might be but need not be necessarily true for someone else. 2.I do not wish to discuss comments about my experiences either. So i wont discuss your friends and your doubts and critics about my person or my "attainments" these where never part of my posting. I consider this "off topic" If you want to discuss the attainment of "Mahahradhanatha" or wheter he is a nath or not, has kundalini experience or not, or if you like to discuss my motives for posting this is open to you, do as you wish, but to what avail? I remember someone saying there are about 330 million gods and godesses worshipped in india, each one with devotees and each connected with a differing philsophy and practices. There is enough room for all of them to exist beside each other. I sincerely believe (or should i say hope) that there is enough room for my exposition and your friends experience to exist beside each other in this group. / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Regarding Kundalini I know next to nothing. I been trying to goad it with sticks and whatnot for 30+ years. But the fellow has not even stirred in his/her/its sleep even ----That is sad. Is there nothing you can do? What about a simple prayer to Her? Have you tried that? The hour is getting late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 , "Eve__69" <eve__69@h...> wrote: > > Regarding Kundalini I know next to nothing. I been trying to goad it with sticks and whatnot for 30+ years. But the fellow has not even stirred in his/her/its sleep even > > ----That is sad. Is there nothing you can do? What about a simple prayer to Her? Have you tried that? The hour is getting late. Maybe wrong stick. How about the magic wane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 In the "Hindu" philosophy there are 4 legitimate Aims of Mankind Dharma Artha Kama and Moksha. That means worldy activity (artha and Kama)is a legitimate aim of mankind, but to follow that the Aim it is a common basis of all asian belief systems that it is necessary to have a repulsion towards samsara. This should be known to anybody interest in "Hindu" . I am sorry to say so but it appears amusing and a little bit absurd to me that i have to defend this position in a group that is called Sakta Sadhana. , Lars Hedström <lars@2...> wrote: > Mahahradanatha wrote: > > "The ultimate Aim of EVERY Religion that EVER originated in India is to eventually > escape from Samsara. Disgust for Samsara is the COMMON BASE of all > Asian Religions including most Religions of the Far east. > Maybe you picked the wrong hobby? :)" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 I refer you to the answer i gave to lars. No matter how hard you try, the ultimate aim of the indian religions is not worldly, nor has it ever been. Maybe you will be more happy with a new age based belief system? , "Mary Ann" <buttercookie61> wrote: > I don't think it is accurate to put together the expansion and > contraction of heart and breath with the concepts of aversion and > attraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Don´t be sad about that: the guru of my guru has said that if you feel something moving down near the belly please go visit the Doctor it is most probably a tape worm not a snake. , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > Just my two cents. There WERE 330 million Gods; now the figure has grown to 1.2+ Billion. > > Regarding Kundalini I know next to nothing. I been trying to goad it with sticks and whatnot for 30+ years. But the fellow has not even stirred in his/her/its sleep even Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 In a message dated 4/28/2005 1:52:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kalipadma108 writes: This Neo-Pagan woman stated that she was very fond of Hatha Yoga, and benefitted much from the physical exercise, but was turned off by the spiritual aspects of Hatha Yoga. "Why must they emphasize turning away from Samsara?" she asked. "I am Pagan, and I love the world of form. I look forward to all the fascinating incarnations I will have in future lives. I want to continue coming back, life after life." I also feel torn by this! In a way I simply do not think that I am ready to leave. I can hardly play my instruments, meditate or connect with Ma like I want to. I was blessed by some visions of Ma which changed my life before I even knew a thing about Hinduism! BUT it seems like once I tried to immerse myself in studies she left ;-) So now here I am reading books, thinking about these things, trying to learn other languages, practicing as much Bhakti as I can, but without a Guru feeling quite lost. Can I master myself in the short time that is left?? I am not so sure. Also I do love the earth and earthly things. I enjoy indulgences, but also value the ability to abstain (not so easy!). Yes there is pain in life, but that compliments the joy doesn't it? Maybe you are right however.......I have noticed some crankiness creeping in and if I practice Tabla for 5 hours in a day my back aches a little more than it did even just 4 years ago. I might be ready to go before long! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Ahh, therein is the problem. Not all tantrics are Hindu. I'm a Buddhist tantric. Yes, to my knowledge, Buddhist tantra is the only tantra specifically formulated to make samsara into nirvana through realization through daily life and not through retreats and running always elsewhere. In Buddhist philosophy in general there is one and not four dharmas. the one Dharma is liberation. And that liberation is the same in a cave as in a house, on a cushion as on a lover, and in an empty stomach as well as one that's full. Moreover Mahakali loves more the lover than the repulsive hater. Or so I would guess. Is that right Mahakali? She says, "Yessssssssssssss." I just asked her again and She said, "Noooooooooooo." It's best not to place words in the Ultimate's mouth. All things are contained under the sun, and only we fools think that there's no room for one or another. - mahahradanatha Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:30 AM Re: Kundalini In the "Hindu" philosophy there are 4 legitimate Aims of Mankind Dharma Artha Kama and Moksha. That means worldy activity (artha and Kama)is a legitimate aim of mankind, but to follow that the Aim it is a common basis of all asian belief systems that it is necessary to have a repulsion towards samsara. This should be known to anybody interest in "Hindu" . I am sorry to say so but it appears amusing and a little bit absurd to me that i have to defend this position in a group that is called Sakta Sadhana. , Lars Hedström <lars@2...> wrote: > Mahahradanatha wrote: > > "The ultimate Aim of EVERY Religion that EVER originated in India is to eventually > escape from Samsara. Disgust for Samsara is the COMMON BASE of all > Asian Religions including most Religions of the Far east. > Maybe you picked the wrong hobby? :)" Links / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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