Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 In fact, the opposite is true: "hindu tantra" is practised mostly by laymen who have families, whereas buddhist tantra is mostly practiced by monks who are most often celibate. There are no retreats recommended in hindu tantra, whereas at least one retreat of 3 Years is a neccesssity in most buddhist schools before you are allowed to teach others. Many teachers do this retreat 2-3 times. Ascetism is much more pronounced in buddhist tantra than in the "hindu variety." , Lars Hedström <lars@2...> wrote: > Eve 69: > > "Buddhist tantra is the only tantra specifically formulated to make samsara into nirvana through realization through daily life and not through retreats and running always elsewhere." > > But surely, this is also an attitude of hindu tantra? > > Regards > > Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 I agree with mahahdranatha. In Buddhist India, people were coverting to Buddhism and renouncing the world IN LARGE NUMBERS to get to the coveted goal, NIRVANA. That was a period of sociological trauma for India. That set the stage for Adi Sankaracharya to come in and revive Hinduism with his unique interpretation of Jnana for the intellectually-inclined (Vivekachudamani) and sacred texts of Bhakti and reverence (examples: Saundarya Lahiri and Bhaja Govindam). The latter category, especially, allowed the people to remain housleholders and yet retain a hope for glimpsing the Divine. I agree though that people in the Orient seem to have adjusted better to Buddhism sociologically than in India. All I said above relates equally to the Tantra aspect of both religions as it does to the "non-Tantra" aspects. , "mahahradanatha" <mahahradanatha> wrote: > In fact, the opposite is true: "hindu tantra" is practised mostly by laymen who have families, whereas buddhist tantra is mostly practiced by monks who are most often celibate. There are no retreats recommended in hindu tantra, whereas at least one retreat of 3 Years is a neccesssity in most buddhist schools before you are allowed to teach others. Many teachers do this retreat 2-3 times. Ascetism is much more pronounced in buddhist tantra than in the "hindu variety." > > , Lars Hedström <lars@2...> > wrote: > > Eve 69: > > > > "Buddhist tantra is the only tantra specifically formulated to make > samsara into nirvana through realization through daily life and not > through retreats and running always elsewhere." > > > > But surely, this is also an attitude of hindu tantra? > > > > Regards > > > > Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 especially, allowed the people to remain housleholders and yet retain a hope for glimpsing the Divine. -----That's certainly kind of Sri Shankara. Quite nice of him to dole out the promise of a glimpse of the Divine to some householders, when such a promise was not his to give, as the Divine is an omnipresent reality which depends on nothing but giving up pretention. I agree though that people in the Orient seem to have adjusted better to Buddhism sociologically than in India. All I said above relates equally to the Tantra aspect of both religions as it does to the "non-Tantra" aspects. -----Again, someone who doesn't even hold buddhist views preaching on about how this or that Buddha this Buddha that. All this knowledge and can you even take a scrap of food from your mouth to give to a starving child? That is real knowledge, not preaching Buddha this Buddhism that. Your ghettos exist not because of Buddhism but because of the Hindu caste system. Because as you put it, anything less than the priestly godlike smartas and their allied Hindu factions are karmically unworthy to aspire to more than a glimpse. That same attitude forces those that you alienate to pursue the extreme Muslim religions and culture their hatred. All Buddha was saying is your karma is catching. That's pretty simple. But the message was perhaps, too simple even for Shankara, who wrote captivating and long winded treatises with no practical value. And had old women physically forced out of the way of his caravan. Here I am and I am a fool, and yet I know one thing. God is present right now in everything, even the smallest lice on a dog. I need nobody to tell me different or try to refute me because to refute my statement is a slap to the Divine. If you find the divine somewhere and not somewhere else, including not in Buddhism, then you really cannot find the Divine at all. It is. That's all. In the world God is suffering in Calcutta in the miens of a million starving. God is all. When you kick a dog you kick God. Wwhen you refute the Buddha, you refute your own awakened staus. That can't be good. Should you be confused about this that I speak then answer one single question. What is enlightenment? I might be, nay am wrong about Hinduism, and I am glad to be so, as the surprising beauty of it is always greater than anything I could create or imagine. Glory to Hinduism for you are beautiful people. Many sects under the Hindu banner are totally perfect without remainder, such as the Sivaites. I love the Sivaittes. I love so many of you Hindus. I really really would have converted except that the Vedic creed is mistaken. There is no love there. There cannot be love in an entrenched system where there is no personal will. Because if one doesn't choose to open up and love, then they cannot choose to be the recipient of love either. My personal belief is that one cannot be born into a religion and hope to also follow it, because of personal bias. Only those that leave their mental home can return to the truth. The others, are just winking in a mirror of their own illusions. , "mahahradanatha" <mahahradanatha> wrote: > In fact, the opposite is true: "hindu tantra" is practised mostly by laymen who have families, whereas buddhist tantra is mostly practiced by monks who are most often celibate. There are no retreats recommended in hindu tantra, whereas at least one retreat of 3 Years is a neccesssity in most buddhist schools before you are allowed to teach others. Many teachers do this retreat 2-3 times. Ascetism is much more pronounced in buddhist tantra than in the "hindu variety." > > , Lars Hedström <lars@2...> > wrote: > > Eve 69: > > > > "Buddhist tantra is the only tantra specifically formulated to make > samsara into nirvana through realization through daily life and not > through retreats and running always elsewhere." > > > > But surely, this is also an attitude of hindu tantra? > > > > Regards > > > > Lars -- / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 no comments except to say "no comments". , "Eve__69" <eve__69@h...> wrote: > especially, allowed the people to remain > housleholders and yet retain a hope for glimpsing the Divine. > > -----That's certainly kind of Sri Shankara. Quite nice of him to dole out the promise of a glimpse of the Divine to some householders, when such a promise was not his to give, as the Divine is an omnipresent reality which depends on nothing but giving up pretention. > > > I agree though that people in the Orient seem to have adjusted > better to Buddhism sociologically than in India. > > All I said above relates equally to the Tantra aspect of both > religions as it does to the "non-Tantra" aspects. > > -----Again, someone who doesn't even hold buddhist views preaching on about how this or that Buddha this Buddha that. All this knowledge and can you even take a scrap of food from your mouth to give to a starving child? That is real knowledge, not preaching Buddha this Buddhism that. Your ghettos exist not because of Buddhism but because of the Hindu caste system. Because as you put it, anything less than the priestly godlike smartas and their allied Hindu factions are karmically unworthy to aspire to more than a glimpse. That same attitude forces those that you alienate to pursue the extreme Muslim religions and culture their hatred. All Buddha was saying is your karma is catching. That's pretty simple. But the message was perhaps, too simple even for Shankara, who wrote captivating and long winded treatises with no practical value. And had old women physically forced out of the way of his caravan. Here I am and I am a fool, and yet I know one thing. God is present right now in everything, even the smallest lice on a dog. I need nobody to tell me different or try to refute me because to refute my statement is a slap to the Divine. If you find the divine somewhere and not somewhere else, including not in Buddhism, then you really cannot find the Divine at all. It is. That's all. In the world God is suffering in Calcutta in the miens of a million starving. God is all. When you kick a dog you kick God. Wwhen you refute the Buddha, you refute your own awakened staus. That can't be good. > > Should you be confused about this that I speak then answer one single question. What is enlightenment? > > I might be, nay am wrong about Hinduism, and I am glad to be so, as the surprising beauty of it is always greater than anything I could create or imagine. Glory to Hinduism for you are beautiful people. Many sects under the Hindu banner are totally perfect without remainder, such as the Sivaites. I love the Sivaittes. I love so many of you Hindus. I really really would have converted except that the Vedic creed is mistaken. There is no love there. There cannot be love in an entrenched system where there is no personal will. Because if one doesn't choose to open up and love, then they cannot choose to be the recipient of love either. > > My personal belief is that one cannot be born into a religion and hope to also follow it, because of personal bias. Only those that leave their mental home can return to the truth. The others, are just winking in a mirror of their own illusions. > > > , "mahahradanatha" > <mahahradanatha> wrote: > > In fact, the opposite is true: "hindu tantra" is practised mostly > by laymen who have families, whereas buddhist tantra is mostly > practiced by monks who are most often celibate. There are no > retreats recommended in hindu tantra, whereas at least one retreat > of 3 Years is a neccesssity in most buddhist schools before you are > allowed to teach others. Many teachers do this retreat 2-3 times. > Ascetism is much more pronounced in buddhist tantra than in > the "hindu variety." > > > > , Lars Hedström <lars@2...> > > wrote: > > > Eve 69: > > > > > > "Buddhist tantra is the only tantra specifically formulated to > make > > samsara into nirvana through realization through daily life and > not > > through retreats and running always elsewhere." > > > > > > But surely, this is also an attitude of hindu tantra? > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 I agree-and add: The amount of monks that have and had to be fed by the working classes of course mostly peasants are a threat even today to the social welfare of buddhist countries. The non buddhist ascetics of india were and are not allowed to beg more than once from one family thats why they have been and still are wandering and where always thankful for what they received and did pose no threat to the society -while the Buddhist mahants became more and more greedy and were and are demanding jewels gold and riches and luxuryand left the peasants with little more then the bare necessesities of life. , "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> wrote: > I agree with mahahdranatha. > > In Buddhist India, people were coverting to Buddhism and renouncing > the world IN LARGE NUMBERS to get to the coveted goal, NIRVANA. That > was a period of sociological trauma for India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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