Hindu and Buddhist tantra.

[Guest guest]

hello everyone,

 

Despite claiming reality to be empty and striving for theh union of

wisdom and emptyness or sometimes of emptiness and bliss, why do the

Buddhists depict their deities as trampling upon Rudra and kalaratri or

Bhairava and kalaratri?

This is even more irritating, keeping in mind that the Buddhist tantras

are derived from Hindu ones. AQny Hindu tantric should despise Buddhist

tantras for perverting tantra and history and for their vindictive

attitude.

 

Bhairavoham...

[Guest guest]

It's pretty hard for a the religious to understand Buddhist tantra. I have never

met one yet, and your judgemental attitude proves this. So why bother asking a

question when you have made up your mind already. Just go on and hate Buddhists

and be simple with that. I'll never change your mind.

 

On the other hand, Buddhists study the Madhiyatmika Prasangika, or the Middle

Way. The Middle Way is not between right and wrong or between good or bad as

some suggest, but it is the middle way between eternalism and nihilism. This

may be hard to understand, and it should be because it's not conceptual, but in

Buddhism, and Kalachakra in particular, the symbology is very particular and is

trying to invoke a certain je ne sais quoi of the essence of the experience.

That essence is of the madhiyatmika.

 

Basically the madhiyatmika talks about various emptinesses, of which there is

also the emptiness of the eternal, and the emptiness of the nihilistic. The

emptiness of the eternal is like saying that since one cannot know something

eternal with the mind it is of no ultimate consequence to the knower. Because to

keep thinking of the eternal is just to get stuck in thoughts of the eternal

rather than the darshan. Therefore this consideration is trampled. Moreover,

since the mind or awareness also doesn't just die and cease then also the

awareness tramples the nihilistic thought.

 

Darshan of the divine is the key, but it is a nonconceptual darshan, and the

wrathful symbology is helpful to shock the mind into nonconceptuality. Tantra

goes beyond thought. All tantras, or otherwise they are merely more bookish

knowledge.

 

The ultimate point of this tantra, as with most Buddhist tantras is the

consumption of the mind into its own blazing purity free of all notions. The

Buddha mind, if you will. A thing that many Buddhists have noted of followers of

Gods and eternal notions is that they ultimately get confused about nonduality

and fall back upon dualistic notions of mine, I, God, and such, always

reaffirming separation from their own mental constructions and thereby

constantly redeveloping new mental trains of samsaric tendencies (vrittis) only

to get once again stuck in samsara (Ongoing wars over idols and deities are

proof of such). As Buddhism in general is about taming samsara, it also is about

taming the dualities of oneself and the heavens above, and a mental fabrication

of an eternal god somewhere which is of help to an individual. It's not that

God doesn't exist, it's just that thoughts of God aren't the same thing as

darshan of God. Something more is needed and that something is tantra.

 

It's funny that you mentioned Bhairava as Bhairava cuts off your head and

tramples your corpse. If that is less blasphemous than Kalachakra then consider

whether you are important in the whole process of knowing or not. If you say no

then who is writing and questioning this whole process. In either case the

cutting off of discursive thought is perhaps the main key.

 

Ultimately all deities are forms of Mahamaya. Freedom from samsara is freedom

from the clutches of mental impressions including the huge ones of hope of

eternality and fear of cessation. These too must go. Hope this helps. Peace.

Namo Buddha. Merits to the Suffering.

 

So it's Rudra and Kamadeva, as examples of the Eternalistic notions and the

Hedonistic/Nihilistic notions. Elsewhere in Kalachakra mandala Shiva makes

another appearance as a protector named Hara. More study is perhaps needed as a

cursory purview of this tantra is merely disrespectful of a 1,300 year old

tradition, and disrespectful of your own intellectual abilities.

-

anandanatha

Tuesday, May 10, 2005 6:58 PM

Hindu and Buddhist tantra.

 

 

hello everyone,

 

Despite claiming reality to be empty and striving for theh union of

wisdom and emptyness or sometimes of emptiness and bliss, why do the

Buddhists depict their deities as trampling upon Rudra and kalaratri or

Bhairava and kalaratri?

This is even more irritating, keeping in mind that the Buddhist tantras

are derived from Hindu ones. AQny Hindu tantric should despise Buddhist

tantras for perverting tantra and history and for their vindictive

attitude.

 

Bhairavoham...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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