Trampling Deities one last reply

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@Vajranath

 

Dear Vajranath

[1] mahahradanatha wrote: just because a peg is used for measuring?

 

No in this case you make a kila from the bones of a man impaled on a

stake...then dip it in feces and urine...

 

arthaZaastra XIV.3

 

Very interesting detail-i remember someone that traced the origin of

the dagger cults way back to Babylonian beliefs. I still think that

the nomadic tent peg idea is

 

interesting especially since the shamanic symbolism of the tent pole

symbolising the ascent of the soul has also left traces in tibetan

Buddhism.

 

[2] mahahradanatha wrote: There is more than one explanation and my

explanation

includes yours as well as others you dont know about always remember:

the pot is

included in space not the space included in the pot

 

Yep and there's a pearl for you.

 

I love presents and here is mine : i won´t break the pot.

 

 

[3]mahahradanatha wrote: Only that the buddhist tantrics felt the

need to

degrade other faiths by using Deities to symbolise evil tendencies,

thereby they

have unfortunately been degrading their own state.

 

Yet unfortunately it is only the Buddhists and Bonpo's who preserve

the

attainment of the Jalus--the rainbow body--the greatest attainment a

human can

aspire to.

 

Our life only last 3 seconds one before one right in the middle and

one thereafter:) all else is not that important.

Sometimes a little less is more- but i agree they have a vast

literature and a lot of information on that subject. whereas there

are only fleeting references to be found

 

in the "Hindu Tradition" I have learned to be a little more

cautious with superlatives like "the greatest attainment" this is

nice for commercials but it does not

 

describe truth, it always sounds a little cheap in my ears-but your

right the public likes it at least the lay public.

Nonetheless i enjoyed the discussion with you.

 

 

 

@Eve69:

 

Dear Eve

<----Nonsense, again prestidigitation,,, claims without

references,,,, This is foolish. etc. as always...

 

It is very hard to find anything of value lately in your

contributions-all you do is dispute my remarks and attack me.I wish i

could have some sort of dialog but you have

 

so little knowledge of even the basic of buddhist and hindu tantras

and i am not willing to answer all your questions when your only

reaction is to attack me again.

 

Please understand that I agree with most of what Vajranath wrote and

he agreed with most of what i wrote, because he has a wide

knowledge of the subject . His

 

historical approach is of course from the buddhist viewpoint but

flawless. We only disagree in some minor points.

Of course made some jokes and teased him a litle bit to keep the

discussion going. It is not my fault that you misunderstand me and

that you are born with a

 

complete lack of humor.

----

----------------

Hindu tantras mention a "drop" somewhere?

 

The Hindu Philosophy and medical science "invented" the concept of

drops (skt. Bindu) and the subtle Body with its differing

energies.

For instance the famous treatise of the Hadi school of sri Vidya the

Kamakalavilasa contains a lot of information on the Bindus.

Sadly the translation of A. Avalon is not flawless and gives rise to

a lot of misunderstandings.

The contraction and expansion i wrote about in my posts on Kundalini

Yoga is happening in the unified field of the red and white bindu,

the mixed bindu.

----

------------

<The "drop" is specifically a feature of Kalachakra.

 

the 4 drops are specific to the KC Tantra (the building blocks of all

the 4 are the white and red bindus) the indestructible drop at the

heart or the subtle mind is the

 

mixed red and white bindu these ideas are present in all buddhist

yoga practices, present in the six yogas of naropa and in the

preparation stage and completion

 

stage practices of all Gelugpa and Kagyüpa Deity Yogas i know.

Without the red and white and mixed substances (bindus, drops) gtumo

practice is not possible, phowa or chod is a not possible, the red

substance appears as

 

fire in the gtumo practice but it is nothing else than the red

bindu, also known as fire in the hindu srividya tradtion.

 

<If someone is sitting somewhere then how can their atman be

somewhere else? What "someone" are you talking about.

 

eve_69 : Born without any sense of humor .

----

---

You have never answered asingle point that I asked. You have never

given a single reference. That's maddening that you expect people to

believe you merely

 

because you use the language. Nevermind talking the talk.

 

Anybody who is following the way of his own will appears maddening to

those that wish to exert control over him. Simply because it is not

possible no matter how

 

hard they try. Don´t worry about that it is completly natural , just

relax and take a deep breath while saying ooooommmmm than you give

all you worries to me i will

 

take care of them.

 

i have answered many of your questions i simply do not have the spare

time and i am not willing to answer every question you ask, if i do

answer some i only

 

receive personal attacks. You have the internet you can do your own

research, if there is something that interests you in my postings.

 

----

--------

<... merely to make people fear Buddhism is sordid....no way that

you're a student of Dadaji, or of the Adinaths.

 

Like i wrote many times before your free to entertain any fantasies

you like about me or my agenda for writing in this group but do not

expect that i comment on

 

them. I do not follow any specific doctrine and i do not have any

fixed belief.

 

 

@Len

 

Dear Len

<My tastes are ecclectic, and if I can't worship (amongothers)

Ganesha, Green Tara, AND the Horned God and Triple Goddess, you can

keep your revolution!

 

I hope there are no misunderstandings. I have had several budhhist

tantric teachers and i have a deep respect for the tradition, but

that does not imply that i have to

 

swallow everything. I decided long ago to have my own iconography

and in there is no place for intolerance.

I think if some buddhist like to be prejudiced against other

religions they are free to do and believe what they like and to

express that.

All i demand is that I may disagree and i have one proposal to the

buddhists: If you change these depictions the blessings will increase

and there will be no more

 

negative associations or feelings. and most important to me : If

someones feelings are hurt by these depictions the fault is not with

him that got hurt, but it lies with

 

the prejudice within the depictions.

This is all i wrote. If anybody reads more than this into it : i.e

that i dislike buddhism like eve69 is a victim of his own delusionsm

and fantasies.

 

@ Satish

 

Dear Satish

 

Kali doesnt trample shiva. She stands on shiva.

If you observe other forms of Devi there are seated by the side of

shiva. One cannot compare the buddhist devata-s trampling hindu

deities

and Kali standing on shiva. Kali standing on Shiva has a philosphical

significance. I dont know if bauddha devata-s trampling hindu deities

is of such philosophical imagery.

> It's just a fact. Some tantras only exist in Tibetan Buddhism. Even

> popular practices like hatha-yoga in their original purity are lost

in

> their Hindu versions.

 

Unsubstantiated claims again. You display such ignorance of Hindu

tantra that I dont see a point in responding to your other posts.

 

100% ACK This is only true in regard to extant buddhist sanskrit

tantras compared to to buddhist sanskrit tantras that have been

translated to to tibetan language.

In the tibetan language there are some tantras preserved whose skt

versions are lost.

No Agamas or Nigamas are preserved in the buddhist canon.

 

To mahAhradanAtha:

>There is no exact historical evidence of what the Kapalikas exactly

>believed and where the sampradaya vanished or merged into.

 

They exist till date. Even if they dont exist as kApAlika-s per se,

there are people who still practice the deadly mAraNa and other rites

from the kApAlika tantra-s even today.

 

This was the same information given to me by my friend who is from

dasanami sampradaya

To connect Kapalika with buddhism makes sense only to confused

american scholars who lack sampradaya.

 

@Max Dashu

 

Dear Max Dashu

I agree and i am happy that you understood the essence of what i

wanted to describe without all the unnecessary ramifications.

I believe that tibetan buddhism is strong enough and the leaders wise

enough to embrace my ideas and act accordingly if enough people

would object.