Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 I like the Hindu stories that start out with that sort of sexist, misogynist premise, and the woman involved outwits her tormentors. I'm thinking of the story the Sage Atri's wife (whose name I've spaced), who was approached by Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva disguised as mortal mendicants, and asked her to feed them (snicker, nudge-nudge, wink, leer) while she was naked. She did so, after magically turning the three into babies with no sexual interest! -- Len/ Kalipadma -- Mary Ann <buttercookie61 wrote: > BTW in case anyone takes my post the wrong way - > please do not > mistake my post on this topic as anti-Hindu. There > are stories in the > Christian Bible and other Xtian stories that I think > are complete BS, > indicative of patriarchal practices at the time of > the writing and or > at the time of the happenings related in the > material, and such > practices continue today as a result of being so > ingrained. That's > where I'm coming from in my post. Hope it doesn't > offend. I am > genuinely interested to know what divinity or value > there is in the > story of a male human or God setting out to "spoil > the chastity of a > chaste woman." What does that mean exactly, if it's > metaphorical?? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 I guess I find them disappointing in that its all just the same old games, cultural conditioning repeating itself. I realize that stories of things, attitudes, etc. that people are familiar with can get certain points across, and you are right, it's certainly good when abusers are turned on their ears by savvy women. It's just unfortunate that Shiva and others would be portrayed as abusing or attempting to take advantage of women. However, maybe the story is good for women so that they see that even Gods must not be deferred to in every situation. Certainly, if Arjuna did not defer to Krishna's influence, the Gita would have been a different tale. A tale as different, perhaps, as if Jesus was able to chose not to be crucified. While I understand that the death is symbolic, I feel that the use of crucifixion, violent death, etc. is all rather dreary, again, ingrained cultural conditioning. Is it true that babies have no sexual feelings? As a female, I know I had sexual feelings as a young child, and I know from books I've read and friends of mine women still feel sexual after menopause, so sexual feelings are not dependent on puberty and the ability to reproduce. A long time ago, I recommended the film Donnie Darko on this list, and nobody was all that into it. What I loved about that film is that it went somewhere different -- until the end. What I experienced in it was the possibility of moving beyond the known into the unknown and creating something new. Unfortunately, it falls short of that and repeats the choice of death, self-sacrifice. It's prone to ego, unfortch. At one point, on a movie marquee that shows up in the film, the name of the Kazantzakis book The Last Temptation of Christ is shown. In that book, Jesus comes down off the cross and lives a long life, has two wives, etc. This is why I really love the film Contact with Jody Foster. That film also went somewhere new, and without elevating death, violence, etc. , Len Rosenberg <kalipadma108> wrote: > > I like the Hindu stories that start out with that sort > of sexist, misogynist premise, and the woman involved > outwits her tormentors. > > I'm thinking of the story the Sage Atri's wife (whose > name I've spaced), who was approached by Brahma, > Vishnu, and Shiva disguised as mortal mendicants, and > asked her to feed them (snicker, nudge-nudge, wink, > leer) while she was naked. She did so, after > magically turning the three into babies with no sexual > interest! > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > -- Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > BTW in case anyone takes my post the wrong way - > > please do not > > mistake my post on this topic as anti-Hindu. There > > are stories in the > > Christian Bible and other Xtian stories that I think > > are complete BS, > > indicative of patriarchal practices at the time of > > the writing and or > > at the time of the happenings related in the > > material, and such > > practices continue today as a result of being so > > ingrained. That's > > where I'm coming from in my post. Hope it doesn't > > offend. I am > > genuinely interested to know what divinity or value > > there is in the > > story of a male human or God setting out to "spoil > > the chastity of a > > chaste woman." What does that mean exactly, if it's > > metaphorical?? > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 These aren't the same old games, they are the old stories from where those games come from. I hear much despondency in your voice MA. Maybe you understand men and women and their interaction a bit too little.Some women actually beg to be despoiled Best to not forget it. And those that don't well these are the possible consequences. - Mary Ann Saturday, May 14, 2005 3:00 AM Re: "spoiling chastity" I guess I find them disappointing in that its all just the same old games, cultural conditioning repeating itself. I realize that stories of things, attitudes, etc. that people are familiar with can get certain points across, and you are right, it's certainly good when abusers are turned on their ears by savvy women. It's just unfortunate that Shiva and others would be portrayed as abusing or attempting to take advantage of women. However, maybe the story is good for women so that they see that even Gods must not be deferred to in every situation. Certainly, if Arjuna did not defer to Krishna's influence, the Gita would have been a different tale. A tale as different, perhaps, as if Jesus was able to chose not to be crucified. While I understand that the death is symbolic, I feel that the use of crucifixion, violent death, etc. is all rather dreary, again, ingrained cultural conditioning. Is it true that babies have no sexual feelings? As a female, I know I had sexual feelings as a young child, and I know from books I've read and friends of mine women still feel sexual after menopause, so sexual feelings are not dependent on puberty and the ability to reproduce. A long time ago, I recommended the film Donnie Darko on this list, and nobody was all that into it. What I loved about that film is that it went somewhere different -- until the end. What I experienced in it was the possibility of moving beyond the known into the unknown and creating something new. Unfortunately, it falls short of that and repeats the choice of death, self-sacrifice. It's prone to ego, unfortch. At one point, on a movie marquee that shows up in the film, the name of the Kazantzakis book The Last Temptation of Christ is shown. In that book, Jesus comes down off the cross and lives a long life, has two wives, etc. This is why I really love the film Contact with Jody Foster. That film also went somewhere new, and without elevating death, violence, etc. , Len Rosenberg <kalipadma108> wrote: > > I like the Hindu stories that start out with that sort > of sexist, misogynist premise, and the woman involved > outwits her tormentors. > > I'm thinking of the story the Sage Atri's wife (whose > name I've spaced), who was approached by Brahma, > Vishnu, and Shiva disguised as mortal mendicants, and > asked her to feed them (snicker, nudge-nudge, wink, > leer) while she was naked. She did so, after > magically turning the three into babies with no sexual > interest! > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > -- Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > BTW in case anyone takes my post the wrong way - > > please do not > > mistake my post on this topic as anti-Hindu. There > > are stories in the > > Christian Bible and other Xtian stories that I think > > are complete BS, > > indicative of patriarchal practices at the time of > > the writing and or > > at the time of the happenings related in the > > material, and such > > practices continue today as a result of being so > > ingrained. That's > > where I'm coming from in my post. Hope it doesn't > > offend. I am > > genuinely interested to know what divinity or value > > there is in the > > story of a male human or God setting out to "spoil > > the chastity of a > > chaste woman." What does that mean exactly, if it's > > metaphorical?? > > > > > > > Links / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 There's a difference between people who want to have sex and having chastity spoiled, and again, if power games are being played to bring about sexual encounters, that's just cultural conditioning. Because the story of the shalagram doesn't really speak to me, other than in the way it appeared to me after reading that initial post, I am genuinely not inclined to work to understand it. I would invite anyone who feels there is a deep spiritual truth in it to share that openly in a different manner. Otherwise, I'm on to other avenues, expressions that better suit, etc. Thanks all for your input. , "Eve__69" <eve__69@h...> wrote: > These aren't the same old games, they are the old stories from where those games come from. I hear much despondency in your voice MA. Maybe you understand men and women and their interaction a bit too little.Some women actually beg to be despoiled Best to not forget it. And those that don't well these are the possible consequences. > - > Mary Ann > > Saturday, May 14, 2005 3:00 AM > Re: "spoiling chastity" > > > I guess I find them disappointing in that its all just the same old > games, cultural conditioning repeating itself. I realize that > stories of things, attitudes, etc. that people are familiar with can > get certain points across, and you are right, it's certainly good > when abusers are turned on their ears by savvy women. It's just > unfortunate that Shiva and others would be portrayed as abusing or > attempting to take advantage of women. However, maybe the story is > good for women so that they see that even Gods must not be deferred > to in every situation. Certainly, if Arjuna did not defer to > Krishna's influence, the Gita would have been a different tale. A > tale as different, perhaps, as if Jesus was able to chose not to be > crucified. While I understand that the death is symbolic, I feel > that the use of crucifixion, violent death, etc. is all rather > dreary, again, ingrained cultural conditioning. > > Is it true that babies have no sexual feelings? As a female, I know > I had sexual feelings as a young child, and I know from books I've > read and friends of mine women still feel sexual after menopause, so > sexual feelings are not dependent on puberty and the ability to > reproduce. > > A long time ago, I recommended the film Donnie Darko on this list, > and nobody was all that into it. What I loved about that film is > that it went somewhere different -- until the end. What I > experienced in it was the possibility of moving beyond the known > into the unknown and creating something new. Unfortunately, it falls > short of that and repeats the choice of death, self-sacrifice. It's > prone to ego, unfortch. At one point, on a movie marquee that shows > up in the film, the name of the Kazantzakis book The Last Temptation > of Christ is shown. In that book, Jesus comes down off the cross and > lives a long life, has two wives, etc. > > This is why I really love the film Contact with Jody Foster. That > film also went somewhere new, and without elevating death, violence, > etc. > > > > , Len Rosenberg > <kalipadma108> wrote: > > > > I like the Hindu stories that start out with that sort > > of sexist, misogynist premise, and the woman involved > > outwits her tormentors. > > > > I'm thinking of the story the Sage Atri's wife (whose > > name I've spaced), who was approached by Brahma, > > Vishnu, and Shiva disguised as mortal mendicants, and > > asked her to feed them (snicker, nudge-nudge, wink, > > leer) while she was naked. She did so, after > > magically turning the three into babies with no sexual > > interest! > > > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > > > > -- Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > > > BTW in case anyone takes my post the wrong way - > > > please do not > > > mistake my post on this topic as anti-Hindu. There > > > are stories in the > > > Christian Bible and other Xtian stories that I think > > > are complete BS, > > > indicative of patriarchal practices at the time of > > > the writing and or > > > at the time of the happenings related in the > > > material, and such > > > practices continue today as a result of being so > > > ingrained. That's > > > where I'm coming from in my post. Hope it doesn't > > > offend. I am > > > genuinely interested to know what divinity or value > > > there is in the > > > story of a male human or God setting out to "spoil > > > the chastity of a > > > chaste woman." What does that mean exactly, if it's > > > metaphorical?? > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around > > > > > > > - ----------- > Links > > > / > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of Service. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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