Stories of chastity destroyed (was For All the Others! )

[Guest guest]

Namaste Mary Ann and everyone.

 

I d like to offer another angle on this.

 

First, there are also stories where celestial beings set out to

destroy the chastity of a _man_.

 

E.g. This happened to the sage Kausika, mentioned in the play

Shakuntala by Kalidasa. Kausika was a yogin whose great power made

the gods worried. So, to weaken him, they asked a beautiful female

spirit, Menaka, to go and tempt him. Menaka succeeded in getting

Kausika to break his vow of chastity. One result of which, was that

Menaka herself subsequently gave birth to the heroine of the play.

 

Two things these stories imply:

 

1. Self-disciple - making a vow and keeping it - can be a source of

great power. (This would also apply for instance to a vow of fasting

or of silence.)

 

2. But, it make be difficult to maintain such power. A person who

has already achieved great self-discipline may be surprised by new

and stronger temptations to break the vows.

 

To say that the voice of temptation comes from the gods, is to

emphasize the power and subtlety of this voice.

 

Perhaps you d prefer to think of this voice of temptation as the

voice of nature, or of human nature, which rebels against too much

discipline...

 

Does this make any sense to anyone?

 

Om Shantih,

Colin

 

 

, "Mary Ann"

<buttercookie61> wrote:

> I am

> genuinely interested to know what divinity or value there is in

the

> story of a male human or God setting out to "spoil the chastity of

a

> chaste woman." What does that mean exactly, if it's metaphorical??

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Colin: As soon as I read the line about celestial beings, I

thought of the Greek gods and goddesses wreaking havoc on humans,

too. I was also thinking of coyote, the trickster, from native

American lore, which I have read some of. I do think it's about

human nature, and life energy.

 

About the chastity thing though, since there are such rules imposed

that would allow for burning of women who "spend time alone in the

presence of" someone other than the person who is granted some sort

of entitlement to be alone with that woman -- I still think it would

be way better to get rid of those entitlements. I'm not sure that

this is what the story of the shaligram does, ultimately. It may

show a woman getting around the entitlements, but again, it has to

reduce the Gods/men to babies, which is only temporary. Again, there

is sexuality before puberty and after menopause, just not

reproduction. So, I still feel the underlying problems are not

addressed.

 

I do recognize the value of keeping a vow, and at the same time,

life is change, and vows may also become obsolete, or be made when a

person is not mature, and should not be kept if such vows prevent

maturity. And vows of chastity, in connection with rules regarding

entitlement, are better done away with, IMHO.

 

 

, "colin777au" <colinr@z...>

wrote:

> Namaste Mary Ann and everyone.

>

> I d like to offer another angle on this.

>

> First, there are also stories where celestial beings set out to

> destroy the chastity of a _man_.

>

> E.g. This happened to the sage Kausika, mentioned in the play

> Shakuntala by Kalidasa. Kausika was a yogin whose great power made

> the gods worried. So, to weaken him, they asked a beautiful female

> spirit, Menaka, to go and tempt him. Menaka succeeded in getting

> Kausika to break his vow of chastity. One result of which, was

that

> Menaka herself subsequently gave birth to the heroine of the play.

>

> Two things these stories imply:

>

> 1. Self-disciple - making a vow and keeping it - can be a source

of

> great power. (This would also apply for instance to a vow of

fasting

> or of silence.)

>

> 2. But, it make be difficult to maintain such power. A person who

> has already achieved great self-discipline may be surprised by new

> and stronger temptations to break the vows.

>

> To say that the voice of temptation comes from the gods, is to

> emphasize the power and subtlety of this voice.

>

> Perhaps you d prefer to think of this voice of temptation as the

> voice of nature, or of human nature, which rebels against too much

> discipline...

>

> Does this make any sense to anyone?

>

> Om Shantih,

> Colin

>

>

> , "Mary Ann"

> <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > I am

> > genuinely interested to know what divinity or value there is in

> the

> > story of a male human or God setting out to "spoil the chastity

of

> a

> > chaste woman." What does that mean exactly, if it's

metaphorical??

> >

[Guest guest]

I would like to recommend Jolan Chang's wonderful books, one is Enlightment of a

Taoist Love Master.

 

He means that we are not monogamous, and never were, it is a cultural thing. We

should not bind us to only one partner. If we lose him/her we lose all our love.

 

Also, the woman has higher sexual abilites so she ought to have several

partners to get satisfied. The man should not have orgasm cause then he has

better possibilites to satisfy his woman.

 

Lars

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

colin777au wrote:

1. Self-disciple - making a vow and keeping it - can be a source of

great power. (This would also apply for instance to a vow of fasting

or of silence.)

 

2. But, it make be difficult to maintain such power. A person who

has already achieved great self-discipline may be surprised by new

and stronger temptations to break the vows.

 

To say that the voice of temptation comes from the gods, is to

emphasize the power and subtlety of this voice. Perhaps you d prefer

to think of this voice of temptation as the voice of nature, or of

human nature, which rebels against too much discipline...

 

Does this make any sense to anyone?

 

 

 

Hello Colin. Always a pleasure to see you back in the group

discussion. Yes! I does make sense to me. Thank You.

[Guest guest]

To say that the voice of temptation comes from the gods, is to

emphasize the power and subtlety of this voice. Perhaps you d prefer

to think of this voice of temptation as the voice of nature, or of

human nature, which rebels against too much discipline...

 

Does this make any sense to anyone?

 

 

----It makes sense to me from the Buddhist view that each of the six lokas are

coexisting within our mind stream.