For All the Others! [was Importance and usuage of shaligram

[Guest guest]

Well, again, the cultural conditioning that imposes such rules on

human relations that burning women or anyone because of whom they

may have spent time -- even if they DID "spend time in the presence

of" someone -- shows how far the rules of society are from God as

Love and Creativity, and from recognizing all conflicts as happening

within oneself and addressing them there. It IS projecting onto men

and women in a way that continues to keep people from focusing

within, as I see it. I do understand why you feel there is value in

the story, and that it has saved lives. And, while the stories are

far removed from modern day American life, we certainly have our own

ways in which we injure ourselves and others, ways that continue

today, passed down through the ages in scripture, law, and human

relations.

 

, "mahahradanatha"

<mahahradanatha> wrote:

> Good Morning Mary Ann

> You wrote:

> <I feel it is far more valuable to recognize that these elements

are

> <all within. I haven't recognized such stories as information on

how

> <not to not allow one's energy to be subject to manipulation. In

> <fact, I think we are all conditioned to allow our energies to be

> <manipulated in certain ways. It keeps the world going on the way

it

> <has been.

> <You have done well in expressing the meaning of the story, and I

> <would much rather just read the paragraph below than try to sort

> <that meaning from that whole shaligram story.

>

> <I have felt that telling these stories as they are, via

> <projecting things onto male and female, continues that pattern

> <of "manipulation in certain ways."

>

> No not at all it is a great story, the only problem is that you

are

> not aware of its impact on the Indian community at that time. It

is

> not applicable to the social structure and customs of the average

> American citizen in the present time.

> For the traditional indian community the story involves a

deliberate

> breaking of the moral law. The illicit love affair of krishna

with

> vrinda is a breaking of the rules even if it is done under the

spell

> of Magic, both krishnas and Vrinda transgression is considerable.

> Acts which are despised by the average indian society created

> the shaligram and tulsi, and indeed these acts became part of a

> sacred drama.

> I believe that the moral of this story may have saved many woman

> from being burned alive which was the customary punishment for

> this "offence".

> The contrast to our story is the story of sita in the ramayana ,

this

> story has by its moral CAUSED the burning alive of many an indian

> woman:

> After returning home from Lanka her husband only suspected that

she

> she spent some time alone with the demon that captured her (even

> spending some time alone in the presence of another man was

> considered to "spoil the chastity"of a woman). Because of this

> SUSPICION alone Sita entered the fire of her own accord (she wasnt

> even "guilty" of haveing spent some time alone with the demon).

This

> was onsidered a most honorable deed.In fact many Indian woman have

> been burned because of a mere suspicion of infidelity by their

> jealous husbands.

> The situation for the woman in the indian community was such that

the

> woman was expected to enter the fire to be burned alive if she had

> been found guilty of being unchaste, this includes woman that were

> being raped!

> Vrinda in the shaligram story was different she didn´t even think

of

> entering any fire. Instead she cursed the offender!

> This was a heroic deed.

> Mistreatment of widows and the burning alive of Woman that have

> transgressed some rules is a tragedy that sadly goes on still

today.

> Social and cultural conditioning, family obligations, prejudices

> because of race caste gender or colour, rules and regulations,

name

> and fame, religious customs, are part a magic net that is cast

over

> all of us and keeps us in differing degrees of bondage and

> hypnosis and is the causes of much agony and pain.

>

> Sri Dattatreya said about the ultimate state:

> vedah na lokah na sura na yajna varnasrama naiva kulam na dhuma

> marga na ca dipti marga brahmika rupam paramarthatattvvam

> There are no scriptures, no sacrifices, no gods, no regions

(lokas)

> no colour, no status, no caste, no family-clan (kula), no dark

path,

> no light path the essence of the highest is the undivded self.

> (path=states after death)

> and:

> iswaraanugrahad eva pumsam advaita vasana mahadbhaya paritrana

> dvipranam upajayate

> It is only by the grace of iswara that a soul or two long for

union

> with him and escape serious danger.

>

>

> Keep up the good work!

> Yeah will do

> Mahahrada the Nath