Santeria and Hinduism

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/25/2005 3:44:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

kalipadma108 writes:

I said, "I am a devotee of Saraswati."

 

The Padrino smiled. "Ah, you are already worshipping

Obatala!"

That is terrific! I once got to attend a ritual for Obatala. The drumming

used in Santeria is very wonderful and incredibly hypnotic. I wish I knew people

who were active in the Santeria/ Voudou communities. I always had an interest

in those faiths, but little access to actual practices of it aside from what I

have gleaned through study and intuition.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I am fascinated about places (mostly in the Carribean)

where African religion and Hinduism have influenced

each other.

 

In Noo Yawk, I know several Puerto Ricans who follow

the Santeria faith. One took me to see her Padrino,

or "godfather," who did a reading for me from small

cowries. He said, "You are protected by Obatala, the

Lord of the White Cloth, but in one of his female

aspects."

 

I said, "I am a devotee of Saraswati."

 

The Padrino smiled. "Ah, you are already worshipping

Obatala!"

 

-- Len/ Kalipadma

 

 

--- swastik108 wrote:

>

> Voudou has it's roots in African religion but was

> developed specifically in

> the island nation called Haiti.

>

> In Cuba there is a similar faith called Santeria

> which is basically a system

> that uses the Catholic saints in such a way where

> they correspond to older

> spirits known as Orisha.

>

> The trickster Exu becomes Ellegua in Cuba and Legba

> in Haiti, basically the

> same type of power, but with slightly different

> attributes based on regional

> differences.

>

> However now these faiths have spread far and wide.

> In Philadelphia where I

> live there is a Voudou group, but they generally

> avoid outsiders and it seems

> very much to be black thing for many of them.

>

> Santeria is more open and easier for outsiders to

> embrace. Much of the Latino

> music scene here is involved with it and I have

> attended ceremonies for

> different Orisha because I know Latino Musicians,

> players of Conga, Bongo etc. I

> also know a few white Americans who study Latino

> music and have gotten to be

> very involved in Santeria through that. Voudou sems

> to have a more secretive air

> with few outsiders taking part.

>

 

 

 

 

Mail

Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:

http://tour.mail./mailtour.html

[Guest guest]

I also am interested. But I don't know if Voodoo is a nondualist teaching, and

so as such it may conflict with certain of my vows. That said, I keep my mind

open and may even do Leve Tete if the powers so will.

 

 

-

swastik108

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 3:26 PM

Re: Santeria and Hinduism

 

 

In a message dated 5/25/2005 3:44:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

kalipadma108 writes:

I said, "I am a devotee of Saraswati."

 

The Padrino smiled. "Ah, you are already worshipping

Obatala!"

That is terrific! I once got to attend a ritual for Obatala. The drumming

used in Santeria is very wonderful and incredibly hypnotic. I wish I knew people

who were active in the Santeria/ Voudou communities. I always had an interest

in those faiths, but little access to actual practices of it aside from what I

have gleaned through study and intuition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

/

 

b..

 

c..

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I find your story very intresting. Yes, there are similarities

between hinduism (shakta sect) and Santeria. Especially in Guyana

where my family is from and whose decent is east indian we follow the

shakta sect mostly which is know by "Kali Chruch" and also "Madrasi

work". i'm guessing it's called Madrasi work becuase this type of

work of devotion orginated from Madras, India. In "Kali Church "

there are drumming. The drums are called thappu drums also sometimes

they use tasa and dholak drums, but the thappu drums is the main

instrument. Also there are possesions of deities. If you are

intrested in learning more there is a book that talks about this kind

of work mostly in the south indian region and also in Guyana. You can

also look through the book in this site.

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-

/0195140443/qid=1117057041/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-5472533-

6923048?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

 

also there is a site that talks about this

 

http://www.healthhacker.com/biella/guyana.html

 

-Lawrence

 

 

 

, swastik108@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/25/2005 3:44:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> kalipadma108 writes:

> I said, "I am a devotee of Saraswati."

>

> The Padrino smiled. "Ah, you are already worshipping

> Obatala!"

> That is terrific! I once got to attend a ritual for Obatala. The

drumming

> used in Santeria is very wonderful and incredibly hypnotic. I wish

I knew people

> who were active in the Santeria/ Voudou communities. I always had

an interest

> in those faiths, but little access to actual practices of it aside

from what I

> have gleaned through study and intuition.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I can relate my personal experience of living next door to

Santaria practitioners, who were Latino musicians. I have no in-depth

knowledge of the practices, and this experience did not draw me to

the practice.

 

It was in Oakland CA several years ago, and these neighbors built an

alter in their backyard and had pens in which they kept chickens,

sheep, and goats. Lots of crowing and bleating going on at all hours.

My landlady at that time was under seige by the neighborhood because

she had rented to these folks, and they were sacrificing the animals

in the backyard. The neighbors up above them (we were on a hill)

could see the bloody entrails which were left on the alter after the

rituals.

 

That experience did make me think about our own barbaric practices in

slaughterhouses, which I'm sure are far worse than what was happening

next door. Yet, it was disturbing, and I eventually moved and was

glad to no longer be near that particular set of circumstances.

 

 

, swastik108@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/25/2005 3:44:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> kalipadma108 writes:

> I said, "I am a devotee of Saraswati."

>

> The Padrino smiled. "Ah, you are already worshipping

> Obatala!"

> That is terrific! I once got to attend a ritual for Obatala. The

drumming

> used in Santeria is very wonderful and incredibly hypnotic. I wish

I knew people

> who were active in the Santeria/ Voudou communities. I always had

an interest

> in those faiths, but little access to actual practices of it aside

from what I

> have gleaned through study and intuition.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In the traditional practices of Yoruban traditions, as expressed

through Santeria and Voudoun, the sacrifice of animals is very similar

to that practiced even today in India, and in the Vedas. Namely, the

animal is sacrificed as an appeasement/offering to the gods, and then

the animal is eaten as blessed food by practitioners. In

poverty-stricken areas, the sacrificial meat is often the only source

of protein for the population, and each family contributes food to the

sacrificial meal (which includes not just an animal for the blood

sacrifice, but also fruits and vegetables, grains, etc.). The

community contributes, and the community eats. At the Kalighat temple

in Kolkata, people line up to eat the goat meat from the sacrifices.

The same can be said of other temples.

 

So the sacrifice works in a number of ways. One, the animal is

sacrificed to atone for the sins of the community, or is sacrificed to

ensure the continued blessings of the gods. Two, the animal's soul is

prayed for, and the animal itself is often worshipped as the sacrifice

for the gods. Third, the animal's death symbolizes a renewal, both

symbolically, but also in a physical sense, since the food from the

animal goes to renew the health of the community via food.

 

In the strictest sense of non-violence, the sacrifice of animals would

seem barbaric. In another sense, however, it is a method of feeding

the community that has more integrity to me than, say, a

slaughterhouse.

 

As far as non-dualism is concerned, I think it depends on who you talk

to, which is similar with Hinduism and Tantra itself. Some

practitioners would say that energy is just energy, and there are some

that seem light and dark, but everything is god, and touched by human

intention. Then there are others that would say there is good and

there is evil, good and bad. I am hesitant to generalize in absolutes

about any religion, because the nature of religion is very personal,

and each person has a varying interpretation.

 

That being said, I myself find close energetic ties between Oya and

Kali (of whom I am a daughter and devotee) - both in actual

representation in the mythology, but also in how they are interpreted

by various communities (e.g. love vs. fear).

 

jai jagadambe

sa'ham

Erin

 

 

On 5/25/05, Mary Ann <buttercookie61 wrote:

> Well, I can relate my personal experience of living next door to

> Santaria practitioners, who were Latino musicians. I have no in-depth

> knowledge of the practices, and this experience did not draw me to

> the practice.

>

> It was in Oakland CA several years ago, and these neighbors built an

> alter in their backyard and had pens in which they kept chickens,

> sheep, and goats. Lots of crowing and bleating going on at all hours.

> My landlady at that time was under seige by the neighborhood because

> she had rented to these folks, and they were sacrificing the animals

> in the backyard. The neighbors up above them (we were on a hill)

> could see the bloody entrails which were left on the alter after the

> rituals.

>

> That experience did make me think about our own barbaric practices in

> slaughterhouses, which I'm sure are far worse than what was happening

> next door. Yet, it was disturbing, and I eventually moved and was

> glad to no longer be near that particular set of circumstances.

>

>

> , swastik108@a... wrote:

> > In a message dated 5/25/2005 3:44:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> > kalipadma108 writes:

> > I said, "I am a devotee of Saraswati."

> >

> > The Padrino smiled. "Ah, you are already worshipping

> > Obatala!"

> > That is terrific! I once got to attend a ritual for Obatala. The

> drumming

> > used in Santeria is very wonderful and incredibly hypnotic. I wish

> I knew people

> > who were active in the Santeria/ Voudou communities. I always had

> an interest

> > in those faiths, but little access to actual practices of it aside

> from what I

> > have gleaned through study and intuition.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Links

>

>

>

> /

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

--

 

 

--\

-----

erin

www.erinjohansen.com

[Guest guest]

Regarding animal sacrifices....I once read about a humourous (?!)

story related to Mahabaratha.

 

At the time of the occurance of the Epic events depicted in the

text, there was also a rebellion of sorts involving a non-brahmin

vedic (I may be wrong on the vedic part) who wanted acceptance into

the main stream brahmins.

 

He was opposed to animal sacrifices... to which the brahmins said

that the animals that are being sacrificed go directly to Heaven as

they are offered to God. The rebel asked, "If they go directly to

God, then why don't you offer your Father as a sacrifice in the homa

kund?"

 

So the story goes that he managed to disguise himself as a brahmin

and entered the yaga celebration of Paandavaas. He was discovered

and executed.

 

May be if someone knows the full details of this story, will be glad

to listen.

 

G

[Guest guest]

As far as non-dualism is concerned, I think it depends on who you talk

to, which is similar with Hinduism and Tantra itself. Some

practitioners would say that energy is just energy, and there are some

that seem light and dark, but everything is god, and touched by human

intention. Then there are others that would say there is good and

there is evil, good and bad. I am hesitant to generalize in absolutes

about any religion, because the nature of religion is very personal,

and each person has a varying interpretation.

 

----Non-dualism isn't really about unifying right and wrong, so much as subject

and object.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste all,

Having practiced both for many years I would like to give my view.As a young man

(teenager)I became interested in Hinduism and Buddhism..Although I'm a white

american my mother spent 20 years in India as a christian missionary's

daughter.At the age of 25 I got very interested in the tantric tradition both

hindu and buddhist. At the age of 31 i became interested in and started

practicing santeria and the yoruba traditions.In 1996 I was initiated into the

priesthood and practiced these afro-cuban traditions for sometime although in

2001 Kali called me back to my first love tantric hinduism and i retired from

the priesthood.Once you get initiated into any form of afro carribean religion

it is difficult to leave.

 

The spirits are very demanding and possessive and only kali or shiva can release

you. Many people try to mix the two paths but it doesn't work real well for most

people.I have met several puerto ricans and cubans who practiced these afro

cuban paths and were rescued from their enemies by the grace of shiva or kali

when animal sacrifices failed for them.Some people have no problems mixing the

traditions but i guess it comes down to karma in the end.There are many

similarities but orishas (west african gods) tend to own their worshippers and

not vice a versa.Many priests tend to lose their freewill, and bribes and

appeasement by blood sacrifices are a constant.I'm sure this happens in tantric

village hinduism to some degree but not to the extent it does in

santeria.Personally I'm a mystic and ultimately I grew tired of it.

 

It (Santeria)tends to attract criminals and low lifes although there are some

very spiritual and moral orisha priests out there.I would urge caution in any

involvement in these carribean traditions but then there are alot of low lifes

in india practicing tantric sorcery and giving our traditions a bad name.A

choice of a religion or deity should be based on love and trust, not fear or

excitement.There is much beauty in african traditions but many people get

involved simply for the thrill and danger of it and not for love of the

deities.I can tell you that they are very potent and powerful traditions and not

for everyone.

 

Personally I would never give up the peace in my life I have now with Kali and

Shiva to go back to the constant fighting with other priests and constant blood

sacrfice I was forced to do. Just my opinion and experience

 

Buvaneswar

[Guest guest]

Eve 69:

 

"----Non-dualism isn't really about unifying right and wrong, so much as subject

and object. "

 

That is also how I thought it was.

 

Lars

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Buveswar wrote:

 

 

"It (Santeria)tends to attract criminals and low lifes although there are some

very spiritual and moral orisha priests out there."

 

It seems as this is the case also in western occult circles.

 

"there are alot of low lifes in india practicing tantric sorcery"

 

Tantric sorcery seems interesting, don't you have a booktip here?:-)

 

Regards

 

Lars