On "Veera" sadhana

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Would like some elaboration on this concept and

practise of "Veera" sadhana, from the knowledgeable

members.

 

"Veera" attitude means a heroic attitude, while in

"normal" devotion the attitude should be "zeroic". It

does not make sense to say "Om Sri Maatre Namah" and

the rest of the 999 names and say that one is a hero.

The attitude of a child on the lap of the mother is

hardly heroic, nor will a hero bow his/her head

("namah") to an unknown God or a Guru.

 

I get the feeling that the attitude of "Hiranya

Kasipu" in Srimad Bhagavatam who proclaimed himself

the God and banished all other worship is really

heroic (?), while that of Prahlada (his illustrious

son) is "zeroic", that of complete surrender and

sarvasva saranagathi. Interestingly, both attained

Moksha, and quickly too, though the heroic path was a

bit bloody.

 

It seems hypocritical to alternate between the two

modes - that of a Veera and devotee, as a real Hero

will remain one, unrepentant. S/he who switches

between the two modes is surely no real "Veera".

 

Interpretation of the word "Veera" above is just with

the little knowledge of Sanskrit and not in any

technical sense, which may well be the case.

 

Seeking the valued guidance and opinions of

knowledgeable members of this group,

 

Ever at Her and Her devotees' feet as an ignorant child,

[Guest guest]

There are three temperaments according to which the teacher decides

on the best methods to be taught.

divya corresponding to sattwa guna

vira corresponding to rajas guna

pashu corresponding to tamas guna

for each of the moods a disciple can be in there is a different

method to be applied:

One is the upaya where you reach the supreme by the grace of the

guru directly by mind to mind transmission. NO rules at all apply ,

this is a good method for a divya.

The second is the upaya that introduces some subtle methods and

instruction, by words or by showing a mudra etc or by a meditation

This is the true meaning of vira bhava, not that notion that a vira

is allowed to do so called "unclean things" this is Ignorance only

of the true meaning. While using a vira method SOME rules apply.

The third upaya is by outer rituals, nyasa,yantra and mantras,

dhyana etc This is called pashu bhava, ALL rules given by the guru

are applied.

Usually there are no strict boundaries between the temperaments or

methods all can by applied to one person as circumstances time

place state of mind etc allow.

 

 

 

Quote:

 

If you ask me what is the supreme path

then i can cut your doubts as with a knife

to leave your worship and your rites behind

and merge into the contemplative life.

 

(Mahendranath: Book of Ashes)

 

 

, "Krishnakumar M."

<krishna_kumar_m> wrote:

> Namaste,

>

> Would like some elaboration on this concept and

> practise of "Veera" sadhana, from the knowledgeable

> members.

>

>

[Guest guest]

"Krishnakumar M." <krishna_kumar_m> wrote: Would like some

elaboration on this concept and practise of "Veera" sadhana, from

the knowledgeable members.

 

"Veera" attitude means a heroic attitude, while in "normal" devotion

the attitude should be "zeroic". It does not make sense to say "Om

Sri Maatre Namah" and the rest of the 999 names and say that one is

a hero. The attitude of a child on the lap of the mother is hardly

heroic, nor will a hero bow his/her head("namah") to an unknown God

or a Guru.

 

I get the feeling that the attitude of "Hiranya Kasipu" in Srimad

Bhagavatam who proclaimed himself the God and banished all other

worship is really heroic (?), while that of Prahlada (his illustrious

son) is "zeroic", that of complete surrender and sarvasva

saranagathi. Interestingly, both attained Moksha, and quickly too,

though the heroic path was a bit bloody.

 

It seems hypocritical to alternate between the two modes - that of a

Veera and devotee, as a real Hero will remain one, unrepentant.

S/he who switches between the two modes is surely no real "Veera".

 

Interpretation of the word "Veera" above is just with the little

knowledge of Sanskrit and not in any technical sense, which may well

be the case. Seeking the valued guidance and opinions of

knowledgeable members of this group,

 

Ever at Her and Her devotees' feet as an ignorant child,

 

 

 

Let me attempt this one. Ive been doing a lot of thinking about this

message by Krishnakumar M. Im never given the lengthy explaination

about what is vira sadhana. This is what my guru told me : I prefer

my deciples to think for themselves and then verify the truth of the

thoughts against shastras and thus validate them.

 

 

The principles of warriorship/vira is all about personal discipline

so that one becomes mature and independent and therefore experience

a sense of personal freedom. You learn to overcome this neurotic

attachment of being the child-of-somebody. Once, that development

has taken place, it is important to share it with the society. This

I personally believe is the organic expression of the greater vision

of warriorship. It is based on the appreciation of the larger

world. In the process of becoming a warrior, you naturally begin to

feel a deep fellowship with human beings. That is the real basis for

helping others and ultimately for making a genuine contributions to

society.

 

Im being asked one day : so what are ur thoughts?

 

My reply was : The journey to the mountains, there are 2 main path.

The secured ones and the unsecured ones. The secured path is the

easy and safest one, you will never get lost if you follow the

directions as they are all there for you to see. The unsecured are

for the adventerous one, those who have been on the secured path and

looking for something different but before you decided to go to

these unsecured path, you must first be brave becuause you are going

throught the uncharted water. You are seeing the parts of the

mountains that no man have been before, but if you managed to get to

it to make it it, and able to tell others about it you have created

a new path for others to follow and thus they are able to enjoy and

see the what have not been seen before. That journey to the

unsecured will lead to other new discoveries not just a new path but

new cures for illness etc. In the secured path, you see the sign

which reads "beware of tigers!".The tigers might not be there

for centuries but they still put it there because they are too lazy

to remove it. "Never mind for those people who use that secured

path will never know no harm in putting it there", they say but

to me

it amounts to disinformation, people made to believe something that

is not there anymore. When you are in the unsecured path you learn

the true nature of tigers's presence. You learn the markings of the

tiger and you learn how to avoid them this is what I see the most

valuable learning experience.

 

Krishna wrote further "Interestingly, both attained Moksha, and

quickly too, though the heroic path was a bit bloody."

 

 

...thus I asked the same question : Is moksa the end of our journey

and our goal? Or there are much more? In every journey ones takes,

should there always be the destination. Why look for the goal, if we

are the goal, then could be that the starting point of our journey

is also the destination?

 

A short conversation to share with all of you :

 

"What I see is this : Its like you are travelling on earth you

stand

on one spot and says, the destination is over the other side u move,

only to realise that that journeys takes you back to where you begin

but its a different journey altogether because you have move one

circle you started off let say as Bala and that journey you reach

you're destination as Sodashi. You are still you, no change but

the

journey bring forth a very different experience that have enrich you

totally"

 

"and then you realise BAla is Shodashi is you"

 

"You are never the same person as you started off, physically you

remain the same but spiritually you are different on a differnet

level"

 

"Every moment we renew ourselves in every way . We are made of

vibrations, each moment the atoms are created from the ultimate the

spanda. The spanda goes on so with each spanda we change we renew

ourselves always thats a physical truth"

[Guest guest]

Namaskaar

 

Vira Sadhana as I understand it is to have heroic disposition, this is required

as in many of the advanced sadhanas what can be witnessed can be truly

terrifying to a regular person. In order to advance one has to be aware of a

greater functioning of reality as it really is, hence to perceive and interact

with Devatas or daityas or other types of beings,one has to become mentally

comfortable.

 

This I don't think will also mean to be disrespectful to a higher power. The

consequences of arrogance can be karmic bondage to some other dimension ( none

of the Viras of old were ever able to give an account of what happened to them

after death ) As we know there

are several levels of the universe, when you meditate on the area of the feet

chakras, some of the beings that you can run into might make the real Viras

think twice or a few times about respect for God. ( please do not try this, only

the real viras will of course !)

 

In many of the scriptures we are told about Bhava - one may worship as a child,

servant, Hero, friend,lover mad man in a swoon etc. What none of these texts

tell you are what are the consequences of each !

 

What I discovered is when I worship Ma as a child she is normally very

protective of me, I normally get taught some pretty sharp lessons also every now

and again, if I falter. However the Vira in me has gotten scolded, pounced upon

and some pretty dangerous and

scary misadventures ( which I will not be elaborating on, thank you !). I think

the goal is to achieve God not achieve control of God. I have seen Ahori mantras

that you can control Kali Ma - funny though I have never known of any aghori

that can actually do this !

 

Dhanyavaad

Pandit Devindra Maharaj

[Guest guest]

Dev Maharaj wrote: This I don't think will also mean to be

disrespectful to a higher power.

 

 

..... and to other people's Guru too.

 

Like to share a short conversation I had with one of our senior

member:

 

Senior member : it says recitation without SV will result in the

anger

of the Vak devatas but thats all in the past; even if it is true. But

when saints like Amritanandamayi ehort ppl to recite that bar is

removed by their sankalpa and the LS is freed; and results flow"

 

Me : Then they asked :who is Amritananadamayi. Some dont even accept

her as a saint less more of a guru. Who is she to say its okay

 

Senior member : proof of the pudding is in the eating. Even if you

are

nobody if one person sincerely accept you as Guru; the divine power

shall flow and he / she becomes Guru with all the attributes. Thats

why it is said the Guru is exalted by the deciples. It is deciples'

sincierity that gives strength to Guru. When the Shishyas are bad

Guru

is debilitated.

 

Me : Its the shisya that gives the guru the bad name!