Guest guest Posted September 8, 2005 Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 Panjitji Dev Maharaj in previous post [ Rampling thoughts] he said : To keep looking for the goal is required as you the aspirant do not know what the final goal is, you and all else think they do, but it is only Ma who knows this ! Thereafter he said in his veera sahana message said : I think the goal is to achieve God not achieve control of God. So Panjiti Dev Maharaj, now that you think you know what the goal is, are you becoming a Ma? You like to elaborate further for us. Because I am trying to understand this two statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2005 Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 Namaskaar I am very glad to see that you read my posts and that you are keeping track of my observations. This is astute and I am very pleased to explain my statements to you. Firstly we must recognise that I made each of these statements in a specific context which are STATEMENT ONE : "To keep looking for the goal is required as you the aspirant do not know what the final goal is, you and all else think they do, but it is only Ma who knows this ! Why I said this is because as Hindus we are taught that Moksha (liberation) is the ultimate goal of life. However, if we further analyse this there are four forms of liberation spoken of in scripture which are: Sayujyam - In oneness with God Sarupam - In the form of God Salokam - In the World of God Samipam - In proximity to God We only assume that liberation is the goal but do we really know this to be so? Do we know what Gods' purpose is for us to start with ? If liberation is the goal then when we achieve the lower forms of liberation, what then ? This is why I concluded that only Ma knows this ! STATEMENT TWO "I think the goal is to achieve God not achieve control of God." Now this was in specific reference to a discussion we had on Vira Sadhana. Please note that I said "I Think" which indicates that I do not know for sure either, I was only surmising here. To be unequivocably clear, this thought is given my present state of spirituality, mental development, understanding of metaphysics and understanding of God. This may change as I become more advanced in knowledge. God forgive me I am sounding like a politician here ! Additionally there are Viras who believe that through Vira Sadhana that they can and should control a Devi/Devata and that they could declare themselves God ! This in my view is not only erroneous but downright stupid as well for the following reasons: 1) Why should a sadhak worship God or Devi/Devata which is a direct emanation of God if they think they can control God. You see to be able to entertain such a thought would indicate that such a sadhaka thinks that he/she is better than that which created him/her ! This in my view has got to be arrogance of a magnitude unthought of ! 2) Ma is revered as the supreme energy because she was created by the energy of all the Gods. She is invincible, therefore to test your might against her is useless, you will only wind up getting killed ! Because other beings by virtue of getting killed by her got Moksha, does not mean that a vira who tried to control her would get it also. This argument has been used by others. However, this is assumed, but not factually recorded anywhere that she has promised this for anyone else! 3) Purpose of sadhana A Sadhaka who uses Vira sadhana to achieve a particular siddhi such as being able to remove spirits from people may use this for a purely selfless motive. Whereas another Sadhaka may use the very same to be able to control and influence people through the use of spirits for selfish ends. The vehicle is the same but the objectives are different as well as the karmic repercussions. Why knowingly invest time and energy in doing sadhana that will culminate in your harm eventually? 4) Differences between the Paramatma and Jiva The Jiva is created from the same source energy of the Paramatma with all of its potentials, yet there are not so subtle differences which are : Level of power - God had created innumerable universes How many has any Vira created ? Knowledge - As the creator and source of all knowledge what is there that God does not know ? Determine how many Viras have actually contributed anything useful to mankind ? Possessor of - God is described by all religions as Omniscient, omnipresent and Omnipotent How many Viras or their gurus can even begin to think of themselves in these terms ? and there are others but this will suffice for now. 5) Gods evolution God is not dead nor has it stopped learning, it is ever evolving. God is described as Niskala which is without desire and quality but as this mantra denotes it is ever full. "Om purnamadah purnamidam purnaat purnamudachyate, purnasya purnamadaya purnamevaavashishyate" "That (pure consciousness) is full(perfect); this (the manifest universe of matter; of names and forms being maya) is full. This fullness has been projected from that fullness. When this fullness merges in that fullness, all that remains is fullness." - Isa Upanishad Contemplate on the fact that by the time a Sadhaka is able to achieve Gods state of completeness, God would already be way ahead of the game ! Reverence for God is both begining and end of wisdom! This is why we surrender to God ;pray to be absorbed into and to become one with God. "So Panditji Dev Maharaj, now that you think you know what the goal is, are you becoming a Ma? You like to elaborate further for us. Because I am trying to understand this two statement. " Well, if Ma wants me to become her I suppose she will do this anyway but I can't read her mind. I will confess though that I rather like being a child and servant of MA. Now I know all the real Viras will jeer and boo at me here, but so be it ! Congratulations you just discovered one of the most important attibutes of Vira sadhana, the ability to pay attention ! Dhanyavaad Pandit Devindra Maharaj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2005 Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 Vanakkam Panditji, You're too silence. I just have to do something to make you talk. And I am verrrrrrry glaaaaaaaaaaaaaad that you have decided to response. YOu wrote : I am very glad to see that you read my posts and that you are keeping track of my observations. This is astute and I am very pleased to explain my statements to you. Well a lot of people hate me for that. Hahhaaaaa but who cares I am one of the moderator of this group. And as such I keep track and read each and every messages in this group. I'm being trained professionally to be observant to detect any changes in situation around me. Because when you are dealing with life and death situation, you cant afford to be blur. Im being told that for some people all you need is to make them talk and gradually they will show u their true self. Somebody in the Muneeswaran group ask the group one day, how do you know weather a person is having a real or a fake trance. My response is [ since im a medical personal and we do have our own way of measuring the level of consciousness.] I responded : when you go to such trance session next time, bring a small little pin with you. When that person who is in trance is not aware of it, you quietly prick him with the small pin. If he did not response then you know its real. When he goes ouch! ouch! you got your answer there. Thank you Pandaji. Now I am greatly amuse by this statement of yours "Congratulations you just discovered one of the most important attibutes of Vira sadhana, the ability to pay attention !" Hahhahaa this is soooooo funny. Intially I find you irritating but gradually you amuses me. Must also remember Panditji humility is not cowardice. Its strength by itself. "Well, if Ma wants me to become her I suppose she will do this anyway but I can't read her mind. I will confess though that I rather like being a child and servant of MA." The basic concept of Tantra is the Unity of The Devi. Thus is our aspiration to merge and be one with her. How can you not read her mind. She is your mind. Unless of course you are telling me you don't even know your mind. Do you Panditji? Short conversation to share [ actually old conversation. You can find them in the homepage message board] Member 3 : "Sri Swami Sivananda called the last one : Madhurya as the"highest form of Bhakti". If Madhurya is the higest form of Bhakti shouldn't we follow it. Why go for second best? Nora: you agree when I say the mother and child it the simpliest and perhaps the first step into any devotion towards DEVI. And we change this mode accordingly to our spiritual progress ? P1 : Yes, thats why we call her MAA. As you advance she becomes the child and you the father/mother (Bala); then she becomes lover (panchadashi) and then she becomes the eternal maiden (Shodashi). It is only at the panchadashi mode sex has any role Nora: So only when you have spiritually advance, she becomes the lover but more symbolic in nature. You approach her sexually ? P1: Of course symbolic. Actually at that stage for some sadhaks there is sexual approach. Nora : So how does this becomes a lover fits in. P1: Because when you really love, both are one Nora: Now the whole thing make sense to me. Sometime back in the group, I saw a picture of Ramakrishna and Sarada Devi holding Kali as a Baby and is sitting on Sarada Devi's lap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2005 Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 Namaskaar "How can you not read her mind. She is your mind. Unless of course you are telling me you don't even know your mind. Do you Panditji? " I will share with you that in silence you are able to hear Ma, sometimes she sings sweetly, sometimes I get a threat or two - Depending on her mood ! However she is quite unpredictable and I never know what mood she is in until she speaks. To know her as your mind requires great purity, I do not know I am that developed. This only comes with purity which is a fluctuating part of us. All that I was alluding to is that I cannot predetermine what she will think ! P1: Of course symbolic. Actually at that stage for some sadhaks there is sexual approach. I am aware of a sadhaka who boasted of doing this not symbollically but for real. I have seen him roaming the market as a vagrant, busily talking to himself and answering too ! Hmmm ! I wonder how this happened, must be a little too much sex/love from MA. I have seen her in all three ways that you mentioned but the sex business I think I much prefer to leave to others ! The love I have is based on a relationship we have, she is MA If ever your are feeling bored and need to spice up your life a little. Meditate on Kokamukhi as her form then you might understand fully ! Pandit Devindra Maharaj --- NMadasamy <nmadasamy wrote: > Vanakkam Panditji, You're too silence. I just have > to do something > to make you talk. And I am verrrrrrry > glaaaaaaaaaaaaaad that you > have decided to response. > > YOu wrote : I am very glad to see that you read my > posts and that > you are keeping track of my observations. This is > astute and I am > very pleased to explain my statements to you. > > Well a lot of people hate me for that. Hahhaaaaa but > who cares I am > one of the moderator of this group. And as such I > keep track and > read each and every messages in this group. I'm > being trained > professionally to be observant to detect any changes > in situation > around me. Because when you are dealing with life > and death > situation, you cant afford to be blur. Im being told > that for some > people all you need is to make them talk and > gradually they will > show u their true self. > > Somebody in the Muneeswaran group ask the group one > day, how do you > know weather a person is having a real or a fake > trance. My response > is [ since im a medical personal and we do have our > own way of > measuring the level of consciousness.] I responded : > when you go to > such trance session next time, bring a small little > pin with you. > When that person who is in trance is not aware of > it, you quietly > prick him with the small pin. If he did not response > then you know > its real. When he goes ouch! ouch! you got your > answer there. Thank > you Pandaji. > > Now I am greatly amuse by this statement of yours > "Congratulations you just discovered one of the > most important > attibutes of Vira sadhana, the ability to pay > attention !" > > Hahhahaa this is soooooo funny. Intially I find you > irritating but > gradually you amuses me. Must also remember Panditji > humility is not > cowardice. Its strength by itself. > > "Well, if Ma wants me to become her I suppose she > will do this > anyway but I can't read her mind. I will confess > though that I > rather like being a child and servant of MA." > > The basic concept of Tantra is the Unity of The > Devi. Thus is our > aspiration to merge and be one with her. How can > you not read her > mind. She is your mind. Unless of course you are > telling me you > don't even know your mind. Do you Panditji? > > Short conversation to share [ actually old > conversation. You can > find them in the homepage message board] > > Member 3 : "Sri Swami Sivananda called the last one > : Madhurya as > the"highest form of Bhakti". If Madhurya is the > higest form of > Bhakti shouldn't we follow it. Why go for second > best? > > Nora: you agree when I say the mother and child it > the simpliest > and perhaps the first step into any devotion towards > DEVI. And we > change this mode accordingly to our spiritual > progress ? > > P1 : Yes, thats why we call her MAA. As you advance > she becomes the > child and you the father/mother (Bala); then she > becomes lover > (panchadashi) and then she becomes the eternal > maiden (Shodashi). It > is only at the panchadashi mode sex has any role > > Nora: So only when you have spiritually advance, > she becomes the > lover but more symbolic in nature. You approach her > sexually ? > > P1: Of course symbolic. Actually at that stage for > some sadhaks > there is sexual approach. > > Nora : So how does this becomes a lover fits in. > > P1: Because when you really love, both are one > > Nora: Now the whole thing make sense to me. > Sometime back in the > group, I saw a picture of Ramakrishna and Sarada > Devi holding Kali > as a Baby and is sitting on Sarada Devi's lap. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2005 Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 Thanks nora About changing attributes of the divine mother with the initiations into the next higher levels As I have just got into pratising sri vidya with the panchadasi mantra, it helps in knowing my relationship with the divine mother regards vikram NMadasamy <nmadasamy wrote: Vanakkam Panditji, You're too silence. I just have to do something to make you talk. And I am verrrrrrry glaaaaaaaaaaaaaad that you have decided to response. YOu wrote : I am very glad to see that you read my posts and that you are keeping track of my observations. This is astute and I am very pleased to explain my statements to you. Well a lot of people hate me for that. Hahhaaaaa but who cares I am one of the moderator of this group. And as such I keep track and read each and every messages in this group. I'm being trained professionally to be observant to detect any changes in situation around me. Because when you are dealing with life and death situation, you cant afford to be blur. Im being told that for some people all you need is to make them talk and gradually they will show u their true self. Somebody in the Muneeswaran group ask the group one day, how do you know weather a person is having a real or a fake trance. My response is [ since im a medical personal and we do have our own way of measuring the level of consciousness.] I responded : when you go to such trance session next time, bring a small little pin with you. When that person who is in trance is not aware of it, you quietly prick him with the small pin. If he did not response then you know its real. When he goes ouch! ouch! you got your answer there. Thank you Pandaji. Now I am greatly amuse by this statement of yours "Congratulations you just discovered one of the most important attibutes of Vira sadhana, the ability to pay attention !" Hahhahaa this is soooooo funny. Intially I find you irritating but gradually you amuses me. Must also remember Panditji humility is not cowardice. Its strength by itself. "Well, if Ma wants me to become her I suppose she will do this anyway but I can't read her mind. I will confess though that I rather like being a child and servant of MA." The basic concept of Tantra is the Unity of The Devi. Thus is our aspiration to merge and be one with her. How can you not read her mind. She is your mind. Unless of course you are telling me you don't even know your mind. Do you Panditji? Short conversation to share [ actually old conversation. You can find them in the homepage message board] Member 3 : "Sri Swami Sivananda called the last one : Madhurya as the"highest form of Bhakti". If Madhurya is the higest form of Bhakti shouldn't we follow it. Why go for second best? Nora: you agree when I say the mother and child it the simpliest and perhaps the first step into any devotion towards DEVI. And we change this mode accordingly to our spiritual progress ? P1 : Yes, thats why we call her MAA. As you advance she becomes the child and you the father/mother (Bala); then she becomes lover (panchadashi) and then she becomes the eternal maiden (Shodashi). It is only at the panchadashi mode sex has any role Nora: So only when you have spiritually advance, she becomes the lover but more symbolic in nature. You approach her sexually ? P1: Of course symbolic. Actually at that stage for some sadhaks there is sexual approach. Nora : So how does this becomes a lover fits in. P1: Because when you really love, both are one Nora: Now the whole thing make sense to me. Sometime back in the group, I saw a picture of Ramakrishna and Sarada Devi holding Kali as a Baby and is sitting on Sarada Devi's lap. Beliefs of hinduism Traditions Divine Hinduism Visit your group "" on the web. Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2005 Report Share Posted September 10, 2005 Dev Maharaj <dev_maharaj wrote: If ever your are feeling bored and need to spice up > your life a little. Meditate on Kokamukhi as her form > then you might understand fully ! > > Pandit Devindra Maharaj Deal! I will do that. But will you mediate on Bala Tripurasundari in return as SHE told me she is looking for a servant to play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2005 Report Share Posted September 10, 2005 , vikram vanam <vikram_vanam2005> wrote: > Thanks nora > > About changing attributes of the divine mother with the initiations into the next higher levels > > As I have just got into pratising sri vidya with the panchadasi mantra, it helps in knowing my relationship with the divine mother > > regards > vikram The basic concept of Tantra is not only the unity of The Devi, but Her Yantra, the Guru and the Practitioner. So you have just got into sri vidya eh! How interesting. Now the chameleon have decided to change its color again it seem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2005 Report Share Posted September 10, 2005 , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> wrote: > Dev Maharaj <dev_maharaj wrote: If ever your are feeling bored and > need to spice up > > your life a little. Meditate on Kokamukhi as her form > > then you might understand fully ! > > > > Pandit Devindra Maharaj > > > > Deal! I will do that. But will you mediate on Bala Tripurasundari in > return as SHE told me she is looking for a servant to play with. .......... only then! you will be able to really understand fully too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2005 Report Share Posted September 10, 2005 Vikram, If you were alluding to this from Nora's earlier post.... Quote__________ P1 : Yes, thats why we call her MAA. As you advance she becomes the child and you the father/mother (Bala); then she becomes lover (panchadashi) and then she becomes the eternal maiden (Shodashi). It is only at the panchadashi mode sex has any role End Quote_______ ........and with your stating that you have been initiated into panchadhashi, it is a bit concerning where you are heading off into. Since you have had the good fortune of a Guru, talk to him - explicitly - about this discussion here. Get his opinion and advise. Talk to your guru and ask how and what will be the experience before you think of heading that path. What are the potential benefits and more importantly, potential dangers. I will give you a hint of the commitment: Let us take the hypothetical stage where SHE loves a sadhaka as a lover. By this time, when anyone gets to that stage must know that SHE is a pathivratha. SHE will not even look at any males other than Sadhashiva. So how and why SHE will be a lover to a Sadhaka?? what does that mean to a Sadhaka? Is the Sadhaka capable of meeting the demands of such divine love? What are the effects of such an "affair" on the worldly environment of the Sadhaka? What temptations may arise? Dwell over these questions. If you are able to arrive at the answers by yourself, it is good. If not, well, what the heck....ask your Guru anyway. Also, the ability to distingush between real and unreal is an advantage. , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> wrote: > , vikram vanam > <vikram_vanam2005> wrote: > > Thanks nora > > > > About changing attributes of the divine mother with the initiations > into the next higher levels > > > > As I have just got into pratising sri vidya with the panchadasi > mantra, it helps in knowing my relationship with the divine mother > > > > regards > > vikram > > > The basic concept of Tantra is not only the unity of The Devi, but > Her Yantra, the Guru and the Practitioner. > > So you have just got into sri vidya eh! How interesting. Now the > chameleon have decided to change its color again it seem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2005 Report Share Posted September 10, 2005 Who is Kokamukhi? What does s/he represent? I know Bala Tripurasundari is Lalita as a very young girl. Do the child-forms of the Devas play video games these days? -- Len/ Kalipadma --- NMadasamy <nmadasamy wrote: > Dev Maharaj <dev_maharaj wrote: If ever your are > feeling bored and > need to spice up > > your life a little. Meditate on Kokamukhi as her > form > > then you might understand fully ! > > > > Pandit Devindra Maharaj > > > > Deal! I will do that. But will you mediate on Bala > Tripurasundari in > return as SHE told me she is looking for a servant > to play with. > > > > ____ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store./redcross-donate3/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2005 Report Share Posted September 11, 2005 Namaskaar Len Kokamukhi is one of the forms she uses to swallow demons ( hint the teeth are about a foot long on either side of her mouth - this is the reason I revere Ma as Ma an will always have repsect for her . I am already a servant of Ma in all of her forms and whatever she commands me to do I must complete. So I will take your advice and mediate on Bala Tripursundari and see what she would like me to do. By the way Len, I never did get a reply to my email to you, if you have decided not to try the things I suggested this is quite ok, but if you have I would appreciate knowing what results you got ! Pandit Devindra Maharaj --- NMadasamy <nmadasamy wrote: > , "NMadasamy" > <nmadasamy@s...> > wrote: > > Dev Maharaj <dev_maharaj wrote: If ever your are > feeling bored and > > need to spice up > > > your life a little. Meditate on Kokamukhi as her > form > > > then you might understand fully ! > > > > > > Pandit Devindra Maharaj > > > > > > > > Deal! I will do that. But will you mediate on Bala > Tripurasundari in > > return as SHE told me she is looking for a servant > to play with. > > > > > ......... only then! you will be able to really > understand fully too! > > > > ____ for Good Watch the Hurricane Katrina Shelter From The Storm concert http://advision.webevents./shelter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 Dear Nora I dont know why I am being interpreted in the wrong manner Probably I am not clear the way I put across information down in writing About my other personal beliefs please dont mind, I have realised there are serious pratitioners in this discussion forum About starting my journey (My personal opinion) is that when a pratitioner gets the panchadasi mantra initiation thats when he starts walking down the road regards vikram NMadasamy <nmadasamy wrote: , vikram vanam <vikram_vanam2005> wrote: > Thanks nora > > About changing attributes of the divine mother with the initiations into the next higher levels > > As I have just got into pratising sri vidya with the panchadasi mantra, it helps in knowing my relationship with the divine mother > > regards > vikram The basic concept of Tantra is not only the unity of The Devi, but Her Yantra, the Guru and the Practitioner. So you have just got into sri vidya eh! How interesting. Now the chameleon have decided to change its color again it seem. Beliefs of hinduism Traditions Divine Hinduism Visit your group "" on the web. for Good Watch the Hurricane Katrina Shelter From The Storm concert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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