Kundalini Question Redux

[Guest guest]

Well, Len, my brain isn't all here today - please forgive me. Yes,

there was suppose to be a question in there somewhere. Is the

Pentecostal experience Kundilini? Culturally for me, that is as close

to what I can relate it to... except the awareness that the universe

is mighty big AND it is time to shift my direction to my real path.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

It probably is, but a very downsized version of Kundalini and that is

probably as far as they will ever get. I had a long talk with a man who

was studying to be a priest in the Pentecostal church; prior to

his "experience", he was an epicurean to the fullest degree.

His "experience" consisted of feeling a rush of energy, creating goose

bumps all over his body, his hair standing on ends and tears coming

down from his eyes. This one time "experience" was according to him,

the descent of the holy spirit into him and so was spiritually elevated

to guide his fellow men.

 

I did not tell him that I can do this anytime at will, whenever I want

to and I do not consider an advanced sadhak at all, just a beginner...

 

Best wishes,

-yogaman

 

, "Eric Otto" <eottoe2001>

wrote:

> Well, Len, my brain isn't all here today - please forgive me. Yes,

> there was suppose to be a question in there somewhere. Is the

> Pentecostal experience Kundilini? Culturally for me, that is as close

> to what I can relate it to... except the awareness that the universe

> is mighty big AND it is time to shift my direction to my real

path.

>

> Eric

[Guest guest]

Sorry a typo in my earlier mail "I do not consider an advanced sadhak

at all, just a beginner..." is corrected to "I do not consider MYSELF

an advanced sadhak at all, just a beginner...". Just to clarify that

I was referring to myself and was not making any comments on the

wonderful young man I met.

 

 

 

 

, "childofdevi"

<childofdevi> wrote:

>

> It probably is, but a very downsized version of Kundalini and that

is

> probably as far as they will ever get. I had a long talk with a man

who

> was studying to be a priest in the Pentecostal church; prior to

> his "experience", he was an epicurean to the fullest degree.

> His "experience" consisted of feeling a rush of energy, creating

goose

> bumps all over his body, his hair standing on ends and tears coming

> down from his eyes. This one time "experience" was according to

him,

> the descent of the holy spirit into him and so was spiritually

elevated

> to guide his fellow men.

>

> I did not tell him that I can do this anytime at will, whenever I

want

> to and I do not consider an advanced sadhak at all, just a

beginner...

>

> Best wishes,

> -yogaman

>

> , "Eric Otto"

<eottoe2001>

> wrote:

> > Well, Len, my brain isn't all here today - please forgive me.

Yes,

> > there was suppose to be a question in there somewhere. Is the

> > Pentecostal experience Kundilini? Culturally for me, that is as

close

> > to what I can relate it to... except the awareness that the

universe

> > is mighty big AND it is time to shift my direction to my real

> path.

> >

> > Eric

[Guest guest]

Namaskaar

 

Dear Eric,

I would like to share an experience with you which I

think might put things in some perspective for you.

About 16 years ago I was doing Navaratri Puja for all

four Sandhyas 6 am, 12 noon, 6 pm, and 12 midnight. On

the eight day of the fast about 3 am I was asleep and

felt a sharp jolt at the base of my spine. I awoke

with the feeling that some one/thing had just inserted

a 220 volt cable into my anus and the voltage was

going from the base of the spine to the top of my

head. I couldn't stop perspiring, I was shaking

uncontrollably and I was seeing things I couldn't

believe.

This continued for three days, my sweat dried up, my

saliva, my urine, my faeces, my sperm just about every

thing in me was dried up or burnt out.

 

This is only the lower stage of what kundalini can be

like. When the Holy Ghost (MA) comes upon you what I

described above is a joke compared to the power that

descends. Your body temperature can get as high as

115-120 degrees.

 

I mean no offense to your experience or Pentecostals

but what you have described seems to be what is called

horripilation which is in the introductory stages of

worship. If you can, the Hebrews call Kundalini by the

name Ruach maybe you might be able to get some

additional information on this from that source.

 

 

Pandit Devindra Maharaj

--- childofdevi <childofdevi wrote:

>

> It probably is, but a very downsized version of

> Kundalini and that is

> probably as far as they will ever get. I had a long

> talk with a man who

> was studying to be a priest in the Pentecostal

> church; prior to

> his "experience", he was an epicurean to the fullest

> degree.

> His "experience" consisted of feeling a rush of

> energy, creating goose

> bumps all over his body, his hair standing on ends

> and tears coming

> down from his eyes. This one time "experience" was

> according to him,

> the descent of the holy spirit into him and so was

> spiritually elevated

> to guide his fellow men.

>

> I did not tell him that I can do this anytime at

> will, whenever I want

> to and I do not consider an advanced sadhak at all,

> just a beginner...

>

> Best wishes,

> -yogaman

>

> , "Eric Otto"

> <eottoe2001>

> wrote:

> > Well, Len, my brain isn't all here today - please

> forgive me. Yes,

> > there was suppose to be a question in there

> somewhere. Is the

> > Pentecostal experience Kundilini? Culturally for

> me, that is as close

> > to what I can relate it to... except the

> awareness that the universe

> > is mighty big AND it is time to shift my direction

> to my real

> path.

> >

> > Eric

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

____

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[Guest guest]

Considering the fear and consequent hatred upon which

fundamentalist Christianity is based (and, indeed, all

fundamentalist approaches from any religion), it is unlikely that

Pentecostals are having a kundalini experience or, at least, that

kundalini is rising fully and through the proper channel.

 

Some possibilities are:

1. not kundalini, but a prana surge.

2. kundalini or prana surge with rajas or tamas guna dominant

and not to highest chakra.

2b. kundalini arousal but only in Muladhara

2c partial kundalini rise in lower three chakras with any of the

three gunas predominating

2d intermediate kundalini rise to Anahata, Vishuddha or Ajna

Chakras with any of the three gunas predominating.

3. prana surge but in any of the lower 7 talas with any of the

gunas predominating

4. kundalini rising through Vajra, Lakshmi or Saraswati Nadi

instead of through Chitrini or Brahma Nadi.

 

There are lots of ways to fool oneself that one has attained

Self-Realization. Other ways to fool oneself are attaining

siddhis, communicating with entities at various lokas or talas,

hearing anahata sounds.

 

 

 

 

, "Eric Otto"

<eottoe2001> wrote:

> Well, Len, my brain isn't all here today - please forgive me.

Yes,

> there was suppose to be a question in there somewhere. Is

the

> Pentecostal experience Kundilini? Culturally for me, that is as

close

> to what I can relate it to... except the awareness that the

universe

> is mighty big AND it is time to shift my direction to my real path.

>

> Eric

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the reply. I tend to agree with your assessment. I

don't know what is going on with them. The other thing that has me

wonder a long the same line were the Shakers that existed in the 19th

Century England and America. That is neither here nor there toward

ones personal experience. I learned that from a minister.

 

On a theological note, Christianity is really loosing it. It has lost

its heart. I'm watching the things going on here with New Orleans and

the "Christians" that I am talking to have such hard edges to them

about the suffering. In the past that wasn't the case. The

selfishness rather than the selflessness is the way now. I'll

qualify this by saying that all religion being that they are religions

have a their darkside and historic incongruities.

 

When the idea of Fundamentalism was concieved of at the very liberal

Princeton Theological seminary at the turn of the 20th century, it

wasn't for the purpose of being a litmus test of faith but was instead

was an attempt to find a common ground among sects and denominations.

It was an attempt to find agreement.

 

It is a real danger to codify things in general. In yoga class today,

the instructor was telling us that even if you obtain the movement, it

is not a static thing. Once one sets down a set of criterias, they

tend to become rules for some with that kind of understanding. The

idea of big understand versus the little understanding is in play in

all religion and spiritualities. Where you have say Baptist on one

side on the other you have Episcopalians. You can see that in Islam,

Buddhism, et al. Largely I think that kind of thinking is the

individual or collective response to their own internal dynamics.

That is to say, if you have a tendency toward small understandings you

tend to go that that way.

 

Sorry to bore the heck with everyone on this. There were a lot of

places where Christians went wrong and continue to go wrong at this

point in history. I could have an essay on it. However, I appreciated

your comments to the original question which were more direct and not

as boring as my own.

 

Thank you.

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

 

 

, "just4amusement"

<just4amusement> wrote:

> Considering the fear and consequent hatred upon which

> fundamentalist Christianity is based (and, indeed, all

> fundamentalist approaches from any religion), it is unlikely that

> Pentecostals are having a kundalini experience or, at least, that

> kundalini is rising fully and through the proper channel.

>

> Some possibilities are:

> 1. not kundalini, but a prana surge.

> 2. kundalini or prana surge with rajas or tamas guna dominant

> and not to highest chakra.

> 2b. kundalini arousal but only in Muladhara

> 2c partial kundalini rise in lower three chakras with any of the

> three gunas predominating

> 2d intermediate kundalini rise to Anahata, Vishuddha or Ajna

> Chakras with any of the three gunas predominating.

> 3. prana surge but in any of the lower 7 talas with any of the

> gunas predominating

> 4. kundalini rising through Vajra, Lakshmi or Saraswati Nadi

> instead of through Chitrini or Brahma Nadi.

>

> There are lots of ways to fool oneself that one has attained

> Self-Realization. Other ways to fool oneself are attaining

> siddhis, communicating with entities at various lokas or talas,

> hearing anahata sounds.

>

>

>

>

> , "Eric Otto"

> <eottoe2001> wrote:

> > Well, Len, my brain isn't all here today - please forgive me.

> Yes,

> > there was suppose to be a question in there somewhere. Is

> the

> > Pentecostal experience Kundilini? Culturally for me, that is as

> close

> > to what I can relate it to... except the awareness that the

> universe

> > is mighty big AND it is time to shift my direction to my real

path.

> >

> > Eric

[Guest guest]

It seems to me that mystical Christianity agrees with very nicely

with Vedic philosophy. If one reads the early Christian saints of

the 16th-18th centuries, their message is not too different from a

Hindu saint. So, too with Sufi mystics.

 

It is too bad that early Christian councils abolished the notions of

reincarnation and the inner divinity of each person. Even

Christian saints had to be very circumspect in their language to

avoid censure, torture and even death.

 

It is at the mystical end of religions that views seem to become

more common and are expressed in similar language. The

non-mystical forms of religions are merely scratching the

surface and their adherents still giving vent to their fears and

biases.

 

Jaya Guru

 

 

, "Eric Otto"

<eottoe2001> wrote:

> Thanks for the reply. I tend to agree with your assessment. I

> don't know what is going on with them. The other thing that

has me wonder a long the same line were the Shakers that existed in

the 19th Century England and America. That is neither here nor there toward

ones personal experience. I learned that from a minister. On a theological

note, Christianity is really loosing it. It has lost its heart. I'm watching

the things going on here with New Orleans and the "Christians" that I am

talking to have such hard edges to them about the suffering. In the past that

wasn't the case. The selfishness rather than the selflessness is the way now.

I'll qualify this by saying that all religion being that they are religions

have a their darkside and historic incongruities.

[Guest guest]

Jaya Guru -

 

The last sentence is beautiful, but I would change one word, i.e.,

"The non-mystical forms of religions are merely scratching the

'door' and their adherents still giving vent to their fears and

biases." A door has the potential of opening though I am not

optimistic about my fellows at the moment.

 

The reincarnation or lack of it isn't a big issue though my

understandings of the mystic comes through Buddhism first [Thomas

Merton] and specifically Zen where here and now is the focus. The

theology that the early church fathers were going after would preclude

reincarnation for the most part. Explaining that structure could be

done in several ways with one of the issues having to do with

political powers existing in the early church formation, but to a

larger extent theological consistency is the reason that drive a

non-reincarnation view today.

 

There were foundations and underpinnings that are much deeper to the

Christianity today. Part of it was the joining of the Old Testament

with the New. They are largely inconsistent philosophically. Many

Christian attempt to synthesize the two and it makes for bad religion.

"Christianity," to quote a famous minister, "is not about rules."

It really is all about loving one's God completely and loving one's

neighbors passionately and sometimes dispassionately. Maybe this is a

stretch but when a religion become a matter of rule - not concerned

with the spirit behind it - it is a burden. That is the cause of

the bitterness.

 

As I move along on my journey, I've pretty much decided that I don't

wish to hate or be bitter. I have my judgements, but largely they

are the judgements that support people's freedom and well being. That

is its own kind of yoga.

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

 

 

, "just4amusement"

<just4amusement> wrote:

> It seems to me that mystical Christianity agrees with very nicely

> with Vedic philosophy. If one reads the early Christian saints of

> the 16th-18th centuries, their message is not too different from a

> Hindu saint. So, too with Sufi mystics.

>

> It is too bad that early Christian councils abolished the notions of

> reincarnation and the inner divinity of each person. Even

> Christian saints had to be very circumspect in their language to

> avoid censure, torture and even death.

>

> It is at the mystical end of religions that views seem to become

> more common and are expressed in similar language. The

> non-mystical forms of religions are merely scratching the

> surface and their adherents still giving vent to their fears and

> biases.

>

> Jaya Guru

>