LalithA SahasranAma [459] sumukhi

[Guest guest]

sumukhi : Handsome-faced

 

By wisdom, the beauty of the face increases. The Srutis say, "One who

knows this, his face shines" [chA Up., IV. 14.2] also "O dear child,

your face shines like that of a sage [brahmavit]".

 

Or, Sumukhi is a certain deity to be worshipped as a part of the

Sodasi [mantra].

 

 

 

BhAskararAya's Commentary

Translated into English by R. Ananthakrishna Sastry

[Guest guest]

"SumukhI [means] 'having a beautiful face,' i.e. shining with wisdom."

 

- Dr. C. Suryanarayana Murthy, Commentary, 1962

 

, "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...>

wrote:

>

> sumukhi : Handsome-faced

>

> By wisdom, the beauty of the face increases. The Srutis say, "One

who

> knows this, his face shines" [chA Up., IV. 14.2] also "O dear child,

> your face shines like that of a sage [brahmavit]".

>

> Or, Sumukhi is a certain deity to be worshipped as a part of the

> Sodasi [mantra].

>

>

>

> BhAskararAya's Commentary

> Translated into English by R. Ananthakrishna Sastry

[Guest guest]

One point I would like to make in all this posting about Her beauty

and wisdom is that possibly her body is aged, wrinkled, fat, etc.

Mostly, wisdom comes through experience (yes, there are certainly

exceptions to this, but most 35+ year olds would know from personal

experience the ways that understanding deepens with time).

 

There is the ideal of beauty that the pop-culture and youth culture

of the modern-day media promote. Devi Bhakta's Maatangi (forgive any

misspelling) is a classic example of this youth culture ideal, I

think. If I'm mistaken about this, I apologize, but last I saw DB's

Maatangi, she was youthful and full-breasted. I think what causes

men to image the Goddess in this way is more in homage to the Shiva

Lingam than to Devi :-P

 

Mary Ann

 

, "Devi Bhakta"

<devi_bhakta> wrote:

> "SumukhI [means] 'having a beautiful face,' i.e. shining with

wisdom."

>

> - Dr. C. Suryanarayana Murthy, Commentary, 1962

>

> , "NMadasamy"

<nmadasamy@s...>

> wrote:

> >

> > sumukhi : Handsome-faced

> >

> > By wisdom, the beauty of the face increases. The Srutis

say, "One

> who

> > knows this, his face shines" [chA Up., IV. 14.2] also "O dear

child,

> > your face shines like that of a sage [brahmavit]".

> >

> > Or, Sumukhi is a certain deity to be worshipped as a part of the

> > Sodasi [mantra].

> >

> >

> >

> > BhAskararAya's Commentary

> > Translated into English by R. Ananthakrishna Sastry

[Guest guest]

, "Mary Ann"

<buttercookie61> wrote:

> One point I would like to make in all this posting about Her

beauty and wisdom is that possibly her body is aged, wrinkled, fat,

etc. Mostly, wisdom comes through experience (yes, there are

certainly exceptions to this, but most 35+ year olds would know from

personal experience the ways that understanding deepens with time).

 

There is the ideal of beauty that the pop-culture and youth culture

of the modern-day media promote. Devi Bhakta's Maatangi (forgive any

misspelling) is a classic example of this youth culture ideal, I

think. If I'm mistaken about this, I apologize, but last I saw DB's

Maatangi, she was youthful and full-breasted. I think what causes

men to image the Goddess in this way is more in homage to the Shiva

Lingam than to Devi :-P

 

Mary Ann

 

 

 

I think you have miss the whole point here Mary Ann. This whole

thingy about LS is that it is part of the visualisation processs. As

you recite the names, you are to visualise HER and eventually she

becomes alive before you or in your mind. And as SHE comes alive,

She "embraces" you and you become One with her. You eventually

becomes HER. Well this is what I think its all about. Its not just a

parrot recitation. That is why it is said, you must recite it with

an understanding and devotion.

[Guest guest]

There is more than physical beauty that forms part of LS. Her attributes and her

actions are also mentioned in LS.

 

NMadasamy <nmadasamy wrote:--- In

, "Mary Ann"

<buttercookie61> wrote:

> One point I would like to make in all this posting about Her

beauty and wisdom is that possibly her body is aged, wrinkled, fat,

etc. Mostly, wisdom comes through experience (yes, there are

certainly exceptions to this, but most 35+ year olds would know from

personal experience the ways that understanding deepens with time).

 

There is the ideal of beauty that the pop-culture and youth culture

of the modern-day media promote. Devi Bhakta's Maatangi (forgive any

misspelling) is a classic example of this youth culture ideal, I

think. If I'm mistaken about this, I apologize, but last I saw DB's

Maatangi, she was youthful and full-breasted. I think what causes

men to image the Goddess in this way is more in homage to the Shiva

Lingam than to Devi :-P

 

Mary Ann

 

 

 

I think you have miss the whole point here Mary Ann. This whole

thingy about LS is that it is part of the visualisation processs. As

you recite the names, you are to visualise HER and eventually she

becomes alive before you or in your mind. And as SHE comes alive,

She "embraces" you and you become One with her. You eventually

becomes HER. Well this is what I think its all about. Its not just a

parrot recitation. That is why it is said, you must recite it with

an understanding and devotion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Intersting observation regarding the proposed age and physical forms

of HER.

 

I hope not to offend anyone by saying that we are trying to

interpret the divine in terms of what we know as humans, in terms of

human life and experiences.

 

Humans are born again and again, which makes them forget their

experiences and wisdom of the previous lives.

 

Gods on the other hand do not forget anything, with the exception of

a few avatars being born humans....like Rama, Parasurama, and a few

avatars of HER, as said in the texts. Even in those cases, they

realize their divine "pre-" existence at a certain stage, by a

prompt by another divine being or a sage.

 

Thus, in theory, wisdom of a God/Godess need not be represented by

the physical form as depicted.

 

In the story of Lalitha, it was Parashakthi and Mahashambu (the

ultimate God couple as expressed popularly as Shakthi-Shiva, SaguNa-

NirguNa Brahman) who appeared before Devas and agreed to get rid of

the scourge of the Universe(s), namely, Bhandasura.

 

Just to remind that SaguNa-NirguNa Brahman (which constitute Brahman

or the ultimate truth/wisdom or whatever) knows all and is the

wisest (as in the context of this discussion). When Parashakthi is

born out of the Holy Fire of the yagna performed my Mahashambu, SHE

did retain all the Wisdom.

 

HER eternally youthful appearence (and that of Sadhashiva)

represents the constant act of creation through the merger of SaguNa

and NirguNa brahman. That merger is also represented by

Ardhanaareeshwaran/ri. Here Adi Shankara says, "YOU (meaning SHE),

took half of Shiva's body. Being not satisfied with that, YOU took

over the whole of HIM," meaning a complete merger (dissolution) of

NirguNa Brahman into SaguNa Brahman to mean that such a complete

merger brings forth Brahman to the mind of a Sadhaka.

 

DB's favorite Godess Maathangi, as a chandalini not only represents

wisdom pointing to the fact that so called social divisions of caste

does not exist for HER. SHE is everything and what ever people see

is just Maaya - which is also created by HER. Just a little lesson

for the so called purists. Also points to the esoteric fact that

NirguNa brahman (Shiva) acts only in resonance with SaguNa brahman

(HER) - that is, HER seducing Shiva and not the vice versa. This is

also a classic trap - in a good sense.

 

I call it a good trap (not a honey trap ;-) ) because, even NirguNa

Brahman (Shiva) and SaguNa Brahman (Shakthi) is Maaya. This story

does trap a sadhaka into a concept of Shakthi making Shiva act.

Brahman is everything, formless, represented by mahabindhu. The

concept of Shakthi and Shiva merging to form Brahman is a classical

method of fighting fire with fire, using Maaya to unravel Maaya.

 

What we as humans know to be used to know the unknown, which is

represented by the name "Sukshama roopiNi" - "Difficult to Perceive."

 

I recall reading a post by one of the member's conversation with a

female guru. It was about (I think) why female gurus are regarded

superior to male gurus in SV upasana. The reason being female gurus

are regarded as a pure feminine - representing HER. The guru replied

to this member, "At one stage both Shakthi and Shiva are realized at

the same time in a Sadhaka." To which the member replied with a

query, "Does that mean that the Sadhaka can have sex with both

females and males?" The Guru just smiled in reply. So much unsaid in

that smile, at least from what we know.

 

Sexual arousal often experienced by Shakthas of male gender (I will

refrain from extending this to the great souls of female gender as I

have not heard of any such experiences from them). It is not that

Shaktham is sexually driven path exclusively. It is just that when a

male human form experiences the presence of "female" energy, the

baser (pun intended as a reference to mooladhaara chakra) instinct

wakes up. This is the stage at which Self realizes the presence of

SaguNa Brahman. Again, it is in the ability of the sadhaka to use

that Maaya to realize what is Brahman. A stage at which it is easy

for one to "Fall off the Path," - instead of taking the "energy" to

the Sahasrara chakra above the head, sending it to the

other "head." ;-)

 

But, when the sadhaka is successful in realizing Brahman, realizing

Shakthi and Shiva in Self, it is the ultimate ecstasy, eternal

peace/bliss or whatever the realized have seen. It is ageless,

formless. I guess that is what that female Guru meant by answering

with a smile.

 

What we see and know as youthful/mature/old Gods (and Godessess) are

just paths to realize Brahman. Whichever path a Sadhaka is

comfortable with, it is THE PATH.

 

I apologize for the looooooooooooong post.

 

G

 

 

 

 

 

 

, sankara menon <kochu1tz>

wrote:

> There is more than physical beauty that forms part of LS. Her

attributes and her actions are also mentioned in LS.

 

, "Mary Ann"

> <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > One point I would like to make in all this posting about Her

> beauty and wisdom is that possibly her body is aged, wrinkled,

fat,

> etc. Mostly, wisdom comes through experience (yes, there are

> certainly exceptions to this, but most 35+ year olds would know

from

> personal experience the ways that understanding deepens with

time).

>

> There is the ideal of beauty that the pop-culture and youth

culture

> of the modern-day media promote. Devi Bhakta's Maatangi (forgive

any

> misspelling) is a classic example of this youth culture ideal, I

> think. If I'm mistaken about this, I apologize, but last I saw

DB's

> Maatangi, she was youthful and full-breasted. I think what causes

> men to image the Goddess in this way is more in homage to the

Shiva

> Lingam than to Devi :-P

>

> Mary Ann

>

>

>

> I think you have miss the whole point here Mary Ann. This whole

> thingy about LS is that it is part of the visualisation processs.

As

> you recite the names, you are to visualise HER and eventually she

> becomes alive before you or in your mind. And as SHE comes alive,

> She "embraces" you and you become One with her. You eventually

> becomes HER. Well this is what I think its all about. Its not just

a

> parrot recitation. That is why it is said, you must recite it with

> an understanding and devotion.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your commentary. I don't think women are any different

(based on my personal experience as one) regarding sexual feeling as

a path to spirituality. I do agree with Amma, however, that most men

and women are unaware of the depth of this path, so don't practice

it. Most seem over-identified with "image," which was my point. I

don't think tantric practitioners are special exceptions to the

pitfalls of being embodied, including becoming attached to certain

imagery and the resultant failure to inquire more deeply as necessary

in order to keep growing.

 

, "ganpra" <ganpra@r...> wrote:

> Intersting observation regarding the proposed age and physical

forms

> of HER.

>

> I hope not to offend anyone by saying that we are trying to

> interpret the divine in terms of what we know as humans, in terms

of

> human life and experiences.

>

> Humans are born again and again, which makes them forget their

> experiences and wisdom of the previous lives.

>

> Gods on the other hand do not forget anything, with the exception

of

> a few avatars being born humans....like Rama, Parasurama, and a few

> avatars of HER, as said in the texts. Even in those cases, they

> realize their divine "pre-" existence at a certain stage, by a

> prompt by another divine being or a sage.

>

> Thus, in theory, wisdom of a God/Godess need not be represented by

> the physical form as depicted.

>

> In the story of Lalitha, it was Parashakthi and Mahashambu (the

> ultimate God couple as expressed popularly as Shakthi-Shiva, SaguNa-

> NirguNa Brahman) who appeared before Devas and agreed to get rid of

> the scourge of the Universe(s), namely, Bhandasura.

>

> Just to remind that SaguNa-NirguNa Brahman (which constitute

Brahman

> or the ultimate truth/wisdom or whatever) knows all and is the

> wisest (as in the context of this discussion). When Parashakthi is

> born out of the Holy Fire of the yagna performed my Mahashambu, SHE

> did retain all the Wisdom.

>

> HER eternally youthful appearence (and that of Sadhashiva)

> represents the constant act of creation through the merger of

SaguNa

> and NirguNa brahman. That merger is also represented by

> Ardhanaareeshwaran/ri. Here Adi Shankara says, "YOU (meaning SHE),

> took half of Shiva's body. Being not satisfied with that, YOU took

> over the whole of HIM," meaning a complete merger (dissolution) of

> NirguNa Brahman into SaguNa Brahman to mean that such a complete

> merger brings forth Brahman to the mind of a Sadhaka.

>

> DB's favorite Godess Maathangi, as a chandalini not only represents

> wisdom pointing to the fact that so called social divisions of

caste

> does not exist for HER. SHE is everything and what ever people see

> is just Maaya - which is also created by HER. Just a little lesson

> for the so called purists. Also points to the esoteric fact that

> NirguNa brahman (Shiva) acts only in resonance with SaguNa brahman

> (HER) - that is, HER seducing Shiva and not the vice versa. This is

> also a classic trap - in a good sense.

>

> I call it a good trap (not a honey trap ;-) ) because, even NirguNa

> Brahman (Shiva) and SaguNa Brahman (Shakthi) is Maaya. This story

> does trap a sadhaka into a concept of Shakthi making Shiva act.

> Brahman is everything, formless, represented by mahabindhu. The

> concept of Shakthi and Shiva merging to form Brahman is a classical

> method of fighting fire with fire, using Maaya to unravel Maaya.

>

> What we as humans know to be used to know the unknown, which is

> represented by the name "Sukshama roopiNi" - "Difficult to

Perceive."

>

> I recall reading a post by one of the member's conversation with a

> female guru. It was about (I think) why female gurus are regarded

> superior to male gurus in SV upasana. The reason being female gurus

> are regarded as a pure feminine - representing HER. The guru

replied

> to this member, "At one stage both Shakthi and Shiva are realized

at

> the same time in a Sadhaka." To which the member replied with a

> query, "Does that mean that the Sadhaka can have sex with both

> females and males?" The Guru just smiled in reply. So much unsaid

in

> that smile, at least from what we know.

>

> Sexual arousal often experienced by Shakthas of male gender (I will

> refrain from extending this to the great souls of female gender as

I

> have not heard of any such experiences from them). It is not that

> Shaktham is sexually driven path exclusively. It is just that when

a

> male human form experiences the presence of "female" energy, the

> baser (pun intended as a reference to mooladhaara chakra) instinct

> wakes up. This is the stage at which Self realizes the presence of

> SaguNa Brahman. Again, it is in the ability of the sadhaka to use

> that Maaya to realize what is Brahman. A stage at which it is easy

> for one to "Fall off the Path," - instead of taking the "energy" to

> the Sahasrara chakra above the head, sending it to the

> other "head." ;-)

>

> But, when the sadhaka is successful in realizing Brahman, realizing

> Shakthi and Shiva in Self, it is the ultimate ecstasy, eternal

> peace/bliss or whatever the realized have seen. It is ageless,

> formless. I guess that is what that female Guru meant by answering

> with a smile.

>

> What we see and know as youthful/mature/old Gods (and Godessess)

are

> just paths to realize Brahman. Whichever path a Sadhaka is

> comfortable with, it is THE PATH.

>

> I apologize for the looooooooooooong post.

>

> G

, sankara menon

<kochu1tz>

> wrote:

> > There is more than physical beauty that forms part of LS. Her

> attributes and her actions are also mentioned in LS.

>

> , "Mary Ann"

> > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > One point I would like to make in all this posting about Her

> > beauty and wisdom is that possibly her body is aged, wrinkled,

> fat,

> > etc. Mostly, wisdom comes through experience (yes, there are

> > certainly exceptions to this, but most 35+ year olds would know

> from

> > personal experience the ways that understanding deepens with

> time).

> >

> > There is the ideal of beauty that the pop-culture and youth

> culture

> > of the modern-day media promote. Devi Bhakta's Maatangi (forgive

> any

> > misspelling) is a classic example of this youth culture ideal, I

> > think. If I'm mistaken about this, I apologize, but last I saw

> DB's

> > Maatangi, she was youthful and full-breasted. I think what causes

> > men to image the Goddess in this way is more in homage to the

> Shiva

> > Lingam than to Devi :-P

> >

> > Mary Ann

> >

> >

> >

> > I think you have miss the whole point here Mary Ann. This whole

> > thingy about LS is that it is part of the visualisation processs.

> As

> > you recite the names, you are to visualise HER and eventually she

> > becomes alive before you or in your mind. And as SHE comes alive,

> > She "embraces" you and you become One with her. You eventually

> > becomes HER. Well this is what I think its all about. Its not

just

> a

> > parrot recitation. That is why it is said, you must recite it

with

> > an understanding and devotion.