Modern 'Mahishasura Mardini' Sells For Record $1.54 Million

[Guest guest]

Please............ are we not getting into personal acrimony?????? should we not

desist????

Kochu

===================================================

 

Feel free to disregard a voice of experience but do not disregard

ahimsa.

 

If you are incapable of discussing the many aspects of this issue

of energetic practices, then perhaps you should not be

discussing it until you know a little more about the process and

ramifications of energetic practices.

 

Also, I responded to your posts not to change your mind as your

attitude in prior posts clearly demonstrates that is not going to

happen in this lifetime, but rather to alert some of the other

1800+ members of this group who might be more interested

learning more about this topic.

 

 

, "Mary Ann"

<buttercookie61> wrote:

> Hi - My response to you was due to your coming across as a

> sanctimonious a-hole, so I'm disregarding your "warnings" in

favor

> of instruction and information from sources I respect and

welcome.

>

>

>

> , "just4amusement"

> <just4amusement> wrote:

> > Your response is much too cavalier and comes from a lack

of

> > knowleged of the potential of energetic practices. All too

often

> it

> > is the ego that calls and not the path.

> >

> > You have already started practicing Hatha Yoga. You need to

be

> > aware of its power and the possible consequences of

practicing

> > it. If you do not inform yourself on Prana, the Chakras, Talas,

> > Lokas and their inhabitants, the various types of Karma,

Gunas,

> > the Atman and Brahman you will not have good experiences

> > from Prana surges, much less Kundalini rising, and you will

not

> > have the necessary context within to understand the

> > consequences of Kundalini. You will be overwhelmed.

> >

> > PLEASE do not treat Hatha Yoga or any other energetic

practice

> > lightly. You do not have the resources at the moment to deal

with

> > Kundalini. People go after these energetic practices

unprepared

> > and forgetting that they actually work. The time to ask

yourself

> > 'What happens when these practices have an effect on my

pranic

> > structure" is before those practices have that effect. Then you

> can

> > prepare, strengthen and purify yourself to facilitate the

passage

> > of Kundalini when and if it arises.

> >

> > To blindly engage in these energetic practices is to court

> > disaster.

> >

> > To mitigate spiritual emergence problems you have to rise

> > above Tamas and Rajas and eventually even Sattwa. You

have

> > to rise above ego and burn off Karma. Then you can start

using

> > Bija Mantras, Mudras and Bandhas in your Hatha Yoga

practice

> > and have some hope of an effortless and transformative

> > Kundalini rising.

> >

> > If you do all of this and know about the topics outlined, then

> you,

> > in addition to being able to face Kunadalini rising, are, in

> fact, a

> > Hindu regardless of race, color, or previous creed.

> >

> >

> > , "Mary Ann"

> > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > Well, I think you should begin from where you are, and trust

> > that

> > > your path will call to you when you are ready to hear it.

> > >

> > > ,

"just4amusement"

> > > <just4amusement> wrote:

> > > > Whew! Where to begin?

> > > >

> > > > Hatha Yoga is not a form of physical exercise. As its

name

> > > > clearly states it is about Prana and specifically about

> > Kundalini.

> > > >

> > > > If you are not looking at the Yamas and Niyamas in your

life

> > then

> > > > not only are you not 'doing' Yoga but rather some form of

> > physical

> > > > exercise but more seriously you are endangering your

> > mental

> > > > and physical life. If Kundalini were to arise in you, your

> lack

> > > of

> > > > purification would result you experiencing some

debilitation

> > from

> > > > the movement of Kundalini through your Karmic blocks,

> > perhaps

> > > > even permanent psychosis or death. It is not for nothing,

> that

> > > the

> > > > western psychiatric profession has finally acknowledged

> > > > 'spiritual emergence syndrome' where people such as

you

> > who

> > > > do not prepare themselves for high Prana surges, much

less

> > > > Kundalini, run into difficulty with their spiritual endeavors.

> > > There

> > > > are no short cuts to Self-Realization, one must prepare

> > > > themselves and remove ego, desire and karma

influences,

> > > > replacing them with detachment, objectivity, equinimity,

> > selfless

> > > > service, and most importantly mumukshatwa, a

one-pointed

> > > > focus on the Divine to the exclusion of all else.

> > > >

> > > > Hari Om

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > > Hi - I was kind of joking about the bija mantras in that

> > > > someone had

> > > > > posted recently that all serious students of hathayoga

or

> > yoga

> > > > use

> > > > > them, and I haven't. In fact, I was first introduced to them

> in

> > > > > asana practice in a workshop called Shakti Sadhana

here

> > in

> > > > the Los

> > > > > Angeles area, but the teacher was truly a buffoon, and I

> > hadn't

> > > > > really thought of the practice again until recently.

> > > > >

> > > > > I guess I'm also saying I don't want to have to become

> > Hindu to

> > > > > practice yoga. I think of it more the way Amma says

about

> > the

> > > > > Divine - if you have a heart of love and compassion, you

> > don't

> > > > have

> > > > > to pray to any God(dess); God is love and compassion.

I

> > am

> > > > drawn to

> > > > > the information available through yoga, and especially

> > > > hathayoga.

> > > > > This is not meant to disparage any religion or belief

about

> > what

> > > > > yoga is. I prefer to let yoga, through hathayoga, teach

me.

> > > > > Otherwise, I feel a bit of pressure to conform to

something

> > that

> > > > > doesn't really fit for me in terms of identifying with a

> > > religion.

> > > > >

> > > > > I also haven't been practicing Ashtanga, the 8 limbs. I

> > guess I

> > > > have

> > > > > been practicing only hathayoga, with most success

from

> > me

> > > > coming

> > > > > through the Viniyoga lineage.

> > > > >

> > > > > What about you? Are you a hathayoga practitioner, or

> > > > Ashtanga?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ,

> > "manoj_menon"

> > > > > <ammademon@g...> wrote:

> > > > > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > > > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > > > > This distinction matters to me because I am not a

> > Hindu,

> > > > and

> > > > > have no

> > > > > > > intention of becoming Hindu, if that is even possible

> for

> > > > > > > westerners.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I don't see why it is not possible. if there can be

> western

> > > > > buddhists

> > > > > > (Robert Thurman, Jack Cornfield etc), there can be

> > western

> > > > hindus

> > > > > too.

> > > > > > As extreme examples, look at the late Sivaya

> > Subramuniya

> > > > Swami and

> > > > > > Swami Satyananda Saraswati. There are many

examples

> > of

> > > > > > reasonably-committed householder westerners too.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > But I am a serious yoga student/practitioner (though

I'm

> > > > > > > sure purists would argue against this, esp. since I

> > haven't

> > > > yet

> > > > > > > begun incorporating bija mantras into my practice

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ashtanga-yoga, that was earliest organized by

Patanjali

> > in

> > > > written

> > > > > > form, does not *require* usage of bijas to make you a

> > yoga

> > > > > practioner.

> > > > > > Although if you have a guru (and you usually must to

> > practice

> > > > it in

> > > > > > its entirety), and (S)he imparts it you as part of the

> > > practice,

> > > > > then

> > > > > > you must incorporate the bijas too.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Essentially, ashtanga-yoga is about breathing

in-and-out

> > into

> > > > the

> > > > > goal

> > > > > > using the techniques of mediation at its higher

stages

> > (all

> > > > learned

> > > > > > usually under the guidance of a qualified guru; to give

> you

> > an

> > > > > idea on

> > > > > > the insistence of the guru for this practice, consider

him

> > as

> > > a

> > > > > coach

> > > > > > of a sports team like basketball or football and give

him

> > that

> > > > much

> > > > > > (and possibly more) respect); anything else other

than

> > > > breathing

> > > > > and

> > > > > > meditation is an addition made by various gurus

based

> > on

> > > > the

> > > > > shisya's

> > > > > > spiritual make-up.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now, Hatha-yoga takes the 3rd limb of the ashtanga -

> > asana

> > > > - to its

> > > > > > extreme and has developed wonderful complicated

> > > > exercises. Ashtanga

> > > > > > focusses on moderation; to focus on all the 8 limbs to

go

> > into

> > > > the

> > > > > > goal. It is said that it is possible to achieve the goal

> using

> > > > > Hatha

> > > > > > alone, but the pitfalls (distractions) are many, and

> > success

> > > is

> > > > > rare

> > > > > > but usually spectacular.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you do not have a guru and are practising the 3rd

anga

> > > > (limb or

> > > > > > component) of the ashtanga, i.e. asana, as you are

> > drawn to

> > > > it, I

> > > > > do

> > > > > > not think you need to worry about non-usage of bijas

to

> > stop

> > > > you

> > > > > from

> > > > > > being qualified as a serious yoga student.

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings - this is, of course, my

interpretation of your need to post as you have been in reply to me.

I felt that the way you approached the topic with me came from your

not really understanding where I was coming from. I feel that, also,

in your further e-mail below. I just reacted to something that

seemed puffed up and needing poking to let some air out. Maybe I

misinterpreted where you were coming from, too. I am genuinely sorry

if I hurt your feelings.

 

, "just4amusement"

<just4amusement> wrote:

> Please............ are we not getting into personal acrimony??????

should we not desist????

> Kochu

> ===================================================

>

> Feel free to disregard a voice of experience but do not disregard

> ahimsa.

>

> If you are incapable of discussing the many aspects of this issue

> of energetic practices, then perhaps you should not be

> discussing it until you know a little more about the process and

> ramifications of energetic practices.

>

> Also, I responded to your posts not to change your mind as your

> attitude in prior posts clearly demonstrates that is not going to

> happen in this lifetime, but rather to alert some of the other

> 1800+ members of this group who might be more interested

> learning more about this topic.

>

>

> , "Mary Ann"

> <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > Hi - My response to you was due to your coming across as a

> > sanctimonious a-hole, so I'm disregarding your "warnings" in

> favor

> > of instruction and information from sources I respect and

> welcome.

> >

> >

> >

> > , "just4amusement"

> > <just4amusement> wrote:

> > > Your response is much too cavalier and comes from a lack

> of

> > > knowleged of the potential of energetic practices. All too

> often

> > it

> > > is the ego that calls and not the path.

> > >

> > > You have already started practicing Hatha Yoga. You need to

> be

> > > aware of its power and the possible consequences of

> practicing

> > > it. If you do not inform yourself on Prana, the Chakras,

Talas,

> > > Lokas and their inhabitants, the various types of Karma,

> Gunas,

> > > the Atman and Brahman you will not have good experiences

> > > from Prana surges, much less Kundalini rising, and you will

> not

> > > have the necessary context within to understand the

> > > consequences of Kundalini. You will be overwhelmed.

> > >

> > > PLEASE do not treat Hatha Yoga or any other energetic

> practice

> > > lightly. You do not have the resources at the moment to deal

> with

> > > Kundalini. People go after these energetic practices

> unprepared

> > > and forgetting that they actually work. The time to ask

> yourself

> > > 'What happens when these practices have an effect on my

> pranic

> > > structure" is before those practices have that effect. Then

you

> > can

> > > prepare, strengthen and purify yourself to facilitate the

> passage

> > > of Kundalini when and if it arises.

> > >

> > > To blindly engage in these energetic practices is to court

> > > disaster.

> > >

> > > To mitigate spiritual emergence problems you have to rise

> > > above Tamas and Rajas and eventually even Sattwa. You

> have

> > > to rise above ego and burn off Karma. Then you can start

> using

> > > Bija Mantras, Mudras and Bandhas in your Hatha Yoga

> practice

> > > and have some hope of an effortless and transformative

> > > Kundalini rising.

> > >

> > > If you do all of this and know about the topics outlined, then

> > you,

> > > in addition to being able to face Kunadalini rising, are, in

> > fact, a

> > > Hindu regardless of race, color, or previous creed.

> > >

> > >

> > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > Well, I think you should begin from where you are, and trust

> > > that

> > > > your path will call to you when you are ready to hear it.

> > > >

> > > > ,

> "just4amusement"

> > > > <just4amusement> wrote:

> > > > > Whew! Where to begin?

> > > > >

> > > > > Hatha Yoga is not a form of physical exercise. As its

> name

> > > > > clearly states it is about Prana and specifically about

> > > Kundalini.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you are not looking at the Yamas and Niyamas in your

> life

> > > then

> > > > > not only are you not 'doing' Yoga but rather some form of

> > > physical

> > > > > exercise but more seriously you are endangering your

> > > mental

> > > > > and physical life. If Kundalini were to arise in you,

your

> > lack

> > > > of

> > > > > purification would result you experiencing some

> debilitation

> > > from

> > > > > the movement of Kundalini through your Karmic blocks,

> > > perhaps

> > > > > even permanent psychosis or death. It is not for nothing,

> > that

> > > > the

> > > > > western psychiatric profession has finally acknowledged

> > > > > 'spiritual emergence syndrome' where people such as

> you

> > > who

> > > > > do not prepare themselves for high Prana surges, much

> less

> > > > > Kundalini, run into difficulty with their spiritual

endeavors.

> > > > There

> > > > > are no short cuts to Self-Realization, one must prepare

> > > > > themselves and remove ego, desire and karma

> influences,

> > > > > replacing them with detachment, objectivity, equinimity,

> > > selfless

> > > > > service, and most importantly mumukshatwa, a

> one-pointed

> > > > > focus on the Divine to the exclusion of all else.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hari Om

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > > > Hi - I was kind of joking about the bija mantras in that

> > > > > someone had

> > > > > > posted recently that all serious students of hathayoga

> or

> > > yoga

> > > > > use

> > > > > > them, and I haven't. In fact, I was first introduced to

them

> > in

> > > > > > asana practice in a workshop called Shakti Sadhana

> here

> > > in

> > > > > the Los

> > > > > > Angeles area, but the teacher was truly a buffoon, and I

> > > hadn't

> > > > > > really thought of the practice again until recently.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I guess I'm also saying I don't want to have to become

> > > Hindu to

> > > > > > practice yoga. I think of it more the way Amma says

> about

> > > the

> > > > > > Divine - if you have a heart of love and compassion, you

> > > don't

> > > > > have

> > > > > > to pray to any God(dess); God is love and compassion.

> I

> > > am

> > > > > drawn to

> > > > > > the information available through yoga, and especially

> > > > > hathayoga.

> > > > > > This is not meant to disparage any religion or belief

> about

> > > what

> > > > > > yoga is. I prefer to let yoga, through hathayoga, teach

> me.

> > > > > > Otherwise, I feel a bit of pressure to conform to

> something

> > > that

> > > > > > doesn't really fit for me in terms of identifying with a

> > > > religion.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I also haven't been practicing Ashtanga, the 8 limbs. I

> > > guess I

> > > > > have

> > > > > > been practicing only hathayoga, with most success

> from

> > > me

> > > > > coming

> > > > > > through the Viniyoga lineage.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What about you? Are you a hathayoga practitioner, or

> > > > > Ashtanga?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ,

> > > "manoj_menon"

> > > > > > <ammademon@g...> wrote:

> > > > > > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > > > > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > > > > > This distinction matters to me because I am not a

> > > Hindu,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > have no

> > > > > > > > intention of becoming Hindu, if that is even

possible

> > for

> > > > > > > > westerners.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I don't see why it is not possible. if there can be

> > western

> > > > > > buddhists

> > > > > > > (Robert Thurman, Jack Cornfield etc), there can be

> > > western

> > > > > hindus

> > > > > > too.

> > > > > > > As extreme examples, look at the late Sivaya

> > > Subramuniya

> > > > > Swami and

> > > > > > > Swami Satyananda Saraswati. There are many

> examples

> > > of

> > > > > > > reasonably-committed householder westerners too.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But I am a serious yoga student/practitioner (though

> I'm

> > > > > > > > sure purists would argue against this, esp. since I

> > > haven't

> > > > > yet

> > > > > > > > begun incorporating bija mantras into my practice

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ashtanga-yoga, that was earliest organized by

> Patanjali

> > > in

> > > > > written

> > > > > > > form, does not *require* usage of bijas to make you a

> > > yoga

> > > > > > practioner.

> > > > > > > Although if you have a guru (and you usually must to

> > > practice

> > > > > it in

> > > > > > > its entirety), and (S)he imparts it you as part of the

> > > > practice,

> > > > > > then

> > > > > > > you must incorporate the bijas too.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Essentially, ashtanga-yoga is about breathing

> in-and-out

> > > into

> > > > > the

> > > > > > goal

> > > > > > > using the techniques of mediation at its higher

> stages

> > > (all

> > > > > learned

> > > > > > > usually under the guidance of a qualified guru; to

give

> > you

> > > an

> > > > > > idea on

> > > > > > > the insistence of the guru for this practice, consider

> him

> > > as

> > > > a

> > > > > > coach

> > > > > > > of a sports team like basketball or football and give

> him

> > > that

> > > > > much

> > > > > > > (and possibly more) respect); anything else other

> than

> > > > > breathing

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > meditation is an addition made by various gurus

> based

> > > on

> > > > > the

> > > > > > shisya's

> > > > > > > spiritual make-up.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now, Hatha-yoga takes the 3rd limb of the ashtanga -

> > > asana

> > > > > - to its

> > > > > > > extreme and has developed wonderful complicated

> > > > > exercises. Ashtanga

> > > > > > > focusses on moderation; to focus on all the 8 limbs to

> go

> > > into

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > goal. It is said that it is possible to achieve the

goal

> > using

> > > > > > Hatha

> > > > > > > alone, but the pitfalls (distractions) are many, and

> > > success

> > > > is

> > > > > > rare

> > > > > > > but usually spectacular.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you do not have a guru and are practising the 3rd

> anga

> > > > > (limb or

> > > > > > > component) of the ashtanga, i.e. asana, as you are

> > > drawn to

> > > > > it, I

> > > > > > do

> > > > > > > not think you need to worry about non-usage of bijas

> to

> > > stop

> > > > > you

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > being qualified as a serious yoga student.

[Guest guest]

It is not clear to whom you are speaking. If to me, I can assure

that you have not and could not hurt my feelings. The only thing

that you have accomplished is to embarass yourself with your

display of pique and your inability to discuss a topic calmly and

reasonably.

 

Some people are unable to learn from others and insist on

doing things the hard way, in effect, reinventing the wheel each

time. As that's the way you seem to operate, your journey will

be long and difficult. But that is entirely your choice. I have no

interest in continuing this thread as it has reached the point of

dimishing returns.

 

 

, "Mary Ann"

<buttercookie61> wrote:

> I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings - this is, of course, my

> interpretation of your need to post as you have been in reply to

me.

> I felt that the way you approached the topic with me came from

your

> not really understanding where I was coming from. I feel that,

also,

> in your further e-mail below. I just reacted to something that

> seemed puffed up and needing poking to let some air out.

Maybe I

> misinterpreted where you were coming from, too. I am

genuinely sorry

> if I hurt your feelings.

>

> , "just4amusement"

> <just4amusement> wrote:

> > Please............ are we not getting into personal

acrimony??????

> should we not desist????

> > Kochu

> >

==================================================

=

> >

> > Feel free to disregard a voice of experience but do not

disregard

> > ahimsa.

> >

> > If you are incapable of discussing the many aspects of this

issue

> > of energetic practices, then perhaps you should not be

> > discussing it until you know a little more about the process

and

> > ramifications of energetic practices.

> >

> > Also, I responded to your posts not to change your mind as

your

> > attitude in prior posts clearly demonstrates that is not going

to

> > happen in this lifetime, but rather to alert some of the other

> > 1800+ members of this group who might be more interested

> > learning more about this topic.

> >

> >

> > , "Mary Ann"

> > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > Hi - My response to you was due to your coming across as

a

> > > sanctimonious a-hole, so I'm disregarding your "warnings"

in

> > favor

> > > of instruction and information from sources I respect and

> > welcome.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ,

"just4amusement"

> > > <just4amusement> wrote:

> > > > Your response is much too cavalier and comes from a

lack

> > of

> > > > knowleged of the potential of energetic practices. All too

> > often

> > > it

> > > > is the ego that calls and not the path.

> > > >

> > > > You have already started practicing Hatha Yoga. You

need to

> > be

> > > > aware of its power and the possible consequences of

> > practicing

> > > > it. If you do not inform yourself on Prana, the Chakras,

> Talas,

> > > > Lokas and their inhabitants, the various types of Karma,

> > Gunas,

> > > > the Atman and Brahman you will not have good

experiences

> > > > from Prana surges, much less Kundalini rising, and you

will

> > not

> > > > have the necessary context within to understand the

> > > > consequences of Kundalini. You will be overwhelmed.

> > > >

> > > > PLEASE do not treat Hatha Yoga or any other energetic

> > practice

> > > > lightly. You do not have the resources at the moment to

deal

> > with

> > > > Kundalini. People go after these energetic practices

> > unprepared

> > > > and forgetting that they actually work. The time to ask

> > yourself

> > > > 'What happens when these practices have an effect on

my

> > pranic

> > > > structure" is before those practices have that effect. Then

> you

> > > can

> > > > prepare, strengthen and purify yourself to facilitate the

> > passage

> > > > of Kundalini when and if it arises.

> > > >

> > > > To blindly engage in these energetic practices is to court

> > > > disaster.

> > > >

> > > > To mitigate spiritual emergence problems you have to

rise

> > > > above Tamas and Rajas and eventually even Sattwa. You

> > have

> > > > to rise above ego and burn off Karma. Then you can start

> > using

> > > > Bija Mantras, Mudras and Bandhas in your Hatha Yoga

> > practice

> > > > and have some hope of an effortless and transformative

> > > > Kundalini rising.

> > > >

> > > > If you do all of this and know about the topics outlined,

then

> > > you,

> > > > in addition to being able to face Kunadalini rising, are, in

> > > fact, a

> > > > Hindu regardless of race, color, or previous creed.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > > Well, I think you should begin from where you are, and

trust

> > > > that

> > > > > your path will call to you when you are ready to hear it.

> > > > >

> > > > > ,

> > "just4amusement"

> > > > > <just4amusement> wrote:

> > > > > > Whew! Where to begin?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hatha Yoga is not a form of physical exercise. As its

> > name

> > > > > > clearly states it is about Prana and specifically about

> > > > Kundalini.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you are not looking at the Yamas and Niyamas in

your

> > life

> > > > then

> > > > > > not only are you not 'doing' Yoga but rather some form

of

> > > > physical

> > > > > > exercise but more seriously you are endangering your

> > > > mental

> > > > > > and physical life. If Kundalini were to arise in you,

> your

> > > lack

> > > > > of

> > > > > > purification would result you experiencing some

> > debilitation

> > > > from

> > > > > > the movement of Kundalini through your Karmic

blocks,

> > > > perhaps

> > > > > > even permanent psychosis or death. It is not for

nothing,

> > > that

> > > > > the

> > > > > > western psychiatric profession has finally

acknowledged

> > > > > > 'spiritual emergence syndrome' where people such

as

> > you

> > > > who

> > > > > > do not prepare themselves for high Prana surges,

much

> > less

> > > > > > Kundalini, run into difficulty with their spiritual

> endeavors.

> > > > > There

> > > > > > are no short cuts to Self-Realization, one must

prepare

> > > > > > themselves and remove ego, desire and karma

> > influences,

> > > > > > replacing them with detachment, objectivity,

equinimity,

> > > > selfless

> > > > > > service, and most importantly mumukshatwa, a

> > one-pointed

> > > > > > focus on the Divine to the exclusion of all else.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hari Om

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > > > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > > > > Hi - I was kind of joking about the bija mantras in

that

> > > > > > someone had

> > > > > > > posted recently that all serious students of

hathayoga

> > or

> > > > yoga

> > > > > > use

> > > > > > > them, and I haven't. In fact, I was first introduced to

> them

> > > in

> > > > > > > asana practice in a workshop called Shakti

Sadhana

> > here

> > > > in

> > > > > > the Los

> > > > > > > Angeles area, but the teacher was truly a buffoon,

and I

> > > > hadn't

> > > > > > > really thought of the practice again until recently.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I guess I'm also saying I don't want to have to

become

> > > > Hindu to

> > > > > > > practice yoga. I think of it more the way Amma says

> > about

> > > > the

> > > > > > > Divine - if you have a heart of love and compassion,

you

> > > > don't

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > to pray to any God(dess); God is love and

compassion.

> > I

> > > > am

> > > > > > drawn to

> > > > > > > the information available through yoga, and

especially

> > > > > > hathayoga.

> > > > > > > This is not meant to disparage any religion or belief

> > about

> > > > what

> > > > > > > yoga is. I prefer to let yoga, through hathayoga,

teach

> > me.

> > > > > > > Otherwise, I feel a bit of pressure to conform to

> > something

> > > > that

> > > > > > > doesn't really fit for me in terms of identifying with a

> > > > > religion.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I also haven't been practicing Ashtanga, the 8 limbs.

I

> > > > guess I

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > been practicing only hathayoga, with most success

> > from

> > > > me

> > > > > > coming

> > > > > > > through the Viniyoga lineage.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What about you? Are you a hathayoga practitioner,

or

> > > > > > Ashtanga?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ,

> > > > "manoj_menon"

> > > > > > > <ammademon@g...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > , "Mary

Ann"

> > > > > > > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > This distinction matters to me because I am not

a

> > > > Hindu,

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > have no

> > > > > > > > > intention of becoming Hindu, if that is even

> possible

> > > for

> > > > > > > > > westerners.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I don't see why it is not possible. if there can be

> > > western

> > > > > > > buddhists

> > > > > > > > (Robert Thurman, Jack Cornfield etc), there can

be

> > > > western

> > > > > > hindus

> > > > > > > too.

> > > > > > > > As extreme examples, look at the late Sivaya

> > > > Subramuniya

> > > > > > Swami and

> > > > > > > > Swami Satyananda Saraswati. There are many

> > examples

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > reasonably-committed householder westerners

too.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But I am a serious yoga student/practitioner

(though

> > I'm

> > > > > > > > > sure purists would argue against this, esp.

since I

> > > > haven't

> > > > > > yet

> > > > > > > > > begun incorporating bija mantras into my

practice

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ashtanga-yoga, that was earliest organized by

> > Patanjali

> > > > in

> > > > > > written

> > > > > > > > form, does not *require* usage of bijas to make

you a

> > > > yoga

> > > > > > > practioner.

> > > > > > > > Although if you have a guru (and you usually must

to

> > > > practice

> > > > > > it in

> > > > > > > > its entirety), and (S)he imparts it you as part of the

> > > > > practice,

> > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > you must incorporate the bijas too.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Essentially, ashtanga-yoga is about breathing

> > in-and-out

> > > > into

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > goal

> > > > > > > > using the techniques of mediation at its higher

> > stages

> > > > (all

> > > > > > learned

> > > > > > > > usually under the guidance of a qualified guru; to

> give

> > > you

> > > > an

> > > > > > > idea on

> > > > > > > > the insistence of the guru for this practice,

consider

> > him

> > > > as

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > coach

> > > > > > > > of a sports team like basketball or football and

give

> > him

> > > > that

> > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > (and possibly more) respect); anything else other

> > than

> > > > > > breathing

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > meditation is an addition made by various gurus

> > based

> > > > on

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > shisya's

> > > > > > > > spiritual make-up.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now, Hatha-yoga takes the 3rd limb of the

ashtanga -

> > > > asana

> > > > > > - to its

> > > > > > > > extreme and has developed wonderful

complicated

> > > > > > exercises. Ashtanga

> > > > > > > > focusses on moderation; to focus on all the 8

limbs to

> > go

> > > > into

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > goal. It is said that it is possible to achieve the

> goal

> > > using

> > > > > > > Hatha

> > > > > > > > alone, but the pitfalls (distractions) are many, and

> > > > success

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > rare

> > > > > > > > but usually spectacular.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If you do not have a guru and are practising the

3rd

> > anga

> > > > > > (limb or

> > > > > > > > component) of the ashtanga, i.e. asana, as you

are

> > > > drawn to

> > > > > > it, I

> > > > > > > do

> > > > > > > > not think you need to worry about non-usage of

bijas

> > to

> > > > stop

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > being qualified as a serious yoga student.

[Guest guest]

Yucky poo poo.

 

, "just4amusement"

<just4amusement> wrote:

> It is not clear to whom you are speaking. If to me, I can assure

> that you have not and could not hurt my feelings. The only thing

> that you have accomplished is to embarass yourself with your

> display of pique and your inability to discuss a topic calmly and

> reasonably.

>

> Some people are unable to learn from others and insist on

> doing things the hard way, in effect, reinventing the wheel each

> time. As that's the way you seem to operate, your journey will

> be long and difficult. But that is entirely your choice. I have no

> interest in continuing this thread as it has reached the point of

> dimishing returns.

>

>

> , "Mary Ann"

> <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings - this is, of course, my

> > interpretation of your need to post as you have been in reply to

> me.

> > I felt that the way you approached the topic with me came from

> your

> > not really understanding where I was coming from. I feel that,

> also,

> > in your further e-mail below. I just reacted to something that

> > seemed puffed up and needing poking to let some air out.

> Maybe I

> > misinterpreted where you were coming from, too. I am

> genuinely sorry

> > if I hurt your feelings.

> >

> > , "just4amusement"

> > <just4amusement> wrote:

> > > Please............ are we not getting into personal

> acrimony??????

> > should we not desist????

> > > Kochu

> > >

> ==================================================

> =

> > >

> > > Feel free to disregard a voice of experience but do not

> disregard

> > > ahimsa.

> > >

> > > If you are incapable of discussing the many aspects of this

> issue

> > > of energetic practices, then perhaps you should not be

> > > discussing it until you know a little more about the process

> and

> > > ramifications of energetic practices.

> > >

> > > Also, I responded to your posts not to change your mind as

> your

> > > attitude in prior posts clearly demonstrates that is not going

> to

> > > happen in this lifetime, but rather to alert some of the other

> > > 1800+ members of this group who might be more interested

> > > learning more about this topic.

> > >

> > >

> > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > Hi - My response to you was due to your coming across as

> a

> > > > sanctimonious a-hole, so I'm disregarding your "warnings"

> in

> > > favor

> > > > of instruction and information from sources I respect and

> > > welcome.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ,

> "just4amusement"

> > > > <just4amusement> wrote:

> > > > > Your response is much too cavalier and comes from a

> lack

> > > of

> > > > > knowleged of the potential of energetic practices. All too

> > > often

> > > > it

> > > > > is the ego that calls and not the path.

> > > > >

> > > > > You have already started practicing Hatha Yoga. You

> need to

> > > be

> > > > > aware of its power and the possible consequences of

> > > practicing

> > > > > it. If you do not inform yourself on Prana, the Chakras,

> > Talas,

> > > > > Lokas and their inhabitants, the various types of Karma,

> > > Gunas,

> > > > > the Atman and Brahman you will not have good

> experiences

> > > > > from Prana surges, much less Kundalini rising, and you

> will

> > > not

> > > > > have the necessary context within to understand the

> > > > > consequences of Kundalini. You will be overwhelmed.

> > > > >

> > > > > PLEASE do not treat Hatha Yoga or any other energetic

> > > practice

> > > > > lightly. You do not have the resources at the moment to

> deal

> > > with

> > > > > Kundalini. People go after these energetic practices

> > > unprepared

> > > > > and forgetting that they actually work. The time to ask

> > > yourself

> > > > > 'What happens when these practices have an effect on

> my

> > > pranic

> > > > > structure" is before those practices have that effect. Then

> > you

> > > > can

> > > > > prepare, strengthen and purify yourself to facilitate the

> > > passage

> > > > > of Kundalini when and if it arises.

> > > > >

> > > > > To blindly engage in these energetic practices is to court

> > > > > disaster.

> > > > >

> > > > > To mitigate spiritual emergence problems you have to

> rise

> > > > > above Tamas and Rajas and eventually even Sattwa. You

> > > have

> > > > > to rise above ego and burn off Karma. Then you can start

> > > using

> > > > > Bija Mantras, Mudras and Bandhas in your Hatha Yoga

> > > practice

> > > > > and have some hope of an effortless and transformative

> > > > > Kundalini rising.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you do all of this and know about the topics outlined,

> then

> > > > you,

> > > > > in addition to being able to face Kunadalini rising, are,

in

> > > > fact, a

> > > > > Hindu regardless of race, color, or previous creed.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > > > Well, I think you should begin from where you are, and

> trust

> > > > > that

> > > > > > your path will call to you when you are ready to hear it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ,

> > > "just4amusement"

> > > > > > <just4amusement> wrote:

> > > > > > > Whew! Where to begin?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hatha Yoga is not a form of physical exercise. As its

> > > name

> > > > > > > clearly states it is about Prana and specifically about

> > > > > Kundalini.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you are not looking at the Yamas and Niyamas in

> your

> > > life

> > > > > then

> > > > > > > not only are you not 'doing' Yoga but rather some form

> of

> > > > > physical

> > > > > > > exercise but more seriously you are endangering your

> > > > > mental

> > > > > > > and physical life. If Kundalini were to arise in you,

> > your

> > > > lack

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > purification would result you experiencing some

> > > debilitation

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > the movement of Kundalini through your Karmic

> blocks,

> > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > even permanent psychosis or death. It is not for

> nothing,

> > > > that

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > western psychiatric profession has finally

> acknowledged

> > > > > > > 'spiritual emergence syndrome' where people such

> as

> > > you

> > > > > who

> > > > > > > do not prepare themselves for high Prana surges,

> much

> > > less

> > > > > > > Kundalini, run into difficulty with their spiritual

> > endeavors.

> > > > > > There

> > > > > > > are no short cuts to Self-Realization, one must

> prepare

> > > > > > > themselves and remove ego, desire and karma

> > > influences,

> > > > > > > replacing them with detachment, objectivity,

> equinimity,

> > > > > selfless

> > > > > > > service, and most importantly mumukshatwa, a

> > > one-pointed

> > > > > > > focus on the Divine to the exclusion of all else.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hari Om

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > > > > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > > > > > Hi - I was kind of joking about the bija mantras in

> that

> > > > > > > someone had

> > > > > > > > posted recently that all serious students of

> hathayoga

> > > or

> > > > > yoga

> > > > > > > use

> > > > > > > > them, and I haven't. In fact, I was first introduced

to

> > them

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > asana practice in a workshop called Shakti

> Sadhana

> > > here

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the Los

> > > > > > > > Angeles area, but the teacher was truly a buffoon,

> and I

> > > > > hadn't

> > > > > > > > really thought of the practice again until recently.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I guess I'm also saying I don't want to have to

> become

> > > > > Hindu to

> > > > > > > > practice yoga. I think of it more the way Amma says

> > > about

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > Divine - if you have a heart of love and compassion,

> you

> > > > > don't

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > to pray to any God(dess); God is love and

> compassion.

> > > I

> > > > > am

> > > > > > > drawn to

> > > > > > > > the information available through yoga, and

> especially

> > > > > > > hathayoga.

> > > > > > > > This is not meant to disparage any religion or belief

> > > about

> > > > > what

> > > > > > > > yoga is. I prefer to let yoga, through hathayoga,

> teach

> > > me.

> > > > > > > > Otherwise, I feel a bit of pressure to conform to

> > > something

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > doesn't really fit for me in terms of identifying

with a

> > > > > > religion.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I also haven't been practicing Ashtanga, the 8 limbs.

> I

> > > > > guess I

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > been practicing only hathayoga, with most success

> > > from

> > > > > me

> > > > > > > coming

> > > > > > > > through the Viniyoga lineage.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What about you? Are you a hathayoga practitioner,

> or

> > > > > > > Ashtanga?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ,

> > > > > "manoj_menon"

> > > > > > > > <ammademon@g...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > , "Mary

> Ann"

> > > > > > > > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > This distinction matters to me because I am not

> a

> > > > > Hindu,

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > have no

> > > > > > > > > > intention of becoming Hindu, if that is even

> > possible

> > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > westerners.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I don't see why it is not possible. if there can be

> > > > western

> > > > > > > > buddhists

> > > > > > > > > (Robert Thurman, Jack Cornfield etc), there can

> be

> > > > > western

> > > > > > > hindus

> > > > > > > > too.

> > > > > > > > > As extreme examples, look at the late Sivaya

> > > > > Subramuniya

> > > > > > > Swami and

> > > > > > > > > Swami Satyananda Saraswati. There are many

> > > examples

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > reasonably-committed householder westerners

> too.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But I am a serious yoga student/practitioner

> (though

> > > I'm

> > > > > > > > > > sure purists would argue against this, esp.

> since I

> > > > > haven't

> > > > > > > yet

> > > > > > > > > > begun incorporating bija mantras into my

> practice

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Ashtanga-yoga, that was earliest organized by

> > > Patanjali

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > written

> > > > > > > > > form, does not *require* usage of bijas to make

> you a

> > > > > yoga

> > > > > > > > practioner.

> > > > > > > > > Although if you have a guru (and you usually must

> to

> > > > > practice

> > > > > > > it in

> > > > > > > > > its entirety), and (S)he imparts it you as part of

the

> > > > > > practice,

> > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > you must incorporate the bijas too.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Essentially, ashtanga-yoga is about breathing

> > > in-and-out

> > > > > into

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > goal

> > > > > > > > > using the techniques of mediation at its higher

> > > stages

> > > > > (all

> > > > > > > learned

> > > > > > > > > usually under the guidance of a qualified guru; to

> > give

> > > > you

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > > idea on

> > > > > > > > > the insistence of the guru for this practice,

> consider

> > > him

> > > > > as

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > coach

> > > > > > > > > of a sports team like basketball or football and

> give

> > > him

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > (and possibly more) respect); anything else other

> > > than

> > > > > > > breathing

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > meditation is an addition made by various gurus

> > > based

> > > > > on

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > shisya's

> > > > > > > > > spiritual make-up.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Now, Hatha-yoga takes the 3rd limb of the

> ashtanga -

> > > > > asana

> > > > > > > - to its

> > > > > > > > > extreme and has developed wonderful

> complicated

> > > > > > > exercises. Ashtanga

> > > > > > > > > focusses on moderation; to focus on all the 8

> limbs to

> > > go

> > > > > into

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > goal. It is said that it is possible to achieve the

> > goal

> > > > using

> > > > > > > > Hatha

> > > > > > > > > alone, but the pitfalls (distractions) are many,

and

> > > > > success

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > rare

> > > > > > > > > but usually spectacular.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If you do not have a guru and are practising the

> 3rd

> > > anga

> > > > > > > (limb or

> > > > > > > > > component) of the ashtanga, i.e. asana, as you

> are

> > > > > drawn to

> > > > > > > it, I

> > > > > > > > do

> > > > > > > > > not think you need to worry about non-usage of

> bijas

> > > to

> > > > > stop

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > being qualified as a serious yoga student.

[Guest guest]

A sense of humor might help you, sir, whatever it is you are trying

to find and/or do here.

 

 

, "just4amusement"

<just4amusement> wrote:

> It is not clear to whom you are speaking. If to me, I can assure

> that you have not and could not hurt my feelings. The only thing

> that you have accomplished is to embarass yourself with your

> display of pique and your inability to discuss a topic calmly and

> reasonably.

>

> Some people are unable to learn from others and insist on

> doing things the hard way, in effect, reinventing the wheel each

> time. As that's the way you seem to operate, your journey will

> be long and difficult. But that is entirely your choice. I have no

> interest in continuing this thread as it has reached the point of

> dimishing returns.

>

>

> , "Mary Ann"

> <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings - this is, of course, my

> > interpretation of your need to post as you have been in reply to

> me.

> > I felt that the way you approached the topic with me came from

> your

> > not really understanding where I was coming from. I feel that,

> also,

> > in your further e-mail below. I just reacted to something that

> > seemed puffed up and needing poking to let some air out.

> Maybe I

> > misinterpreted where you were coming from, too. I am

> genuinely sorry

> > if I hurt your feelings.

> >

> > , "just4amusement"

> > <just4amusement> wrote:

> > > Please............ are we not getting into personal

> acrimony??????

> > should we not desist????

> > > Kochu

> > >

> ==================================================

> =

> > >

> > > Feel free to disregard a voice of experience but do not

> disregard

> > > ahimsa.

> > >

> > > If you are incapable of discussing the many aspects of this

> issue

> > > of energetic practices, then perhaps you should not be

> > > discussing it until you know a little more about the process

> and

> > > ramifications of energetic practices.

> > >

> > > Also, I responded to your posts not to change your mind as

> your

> > > attitude in prior posts clearly demonstrates that is not going

> to

> > > happen in this lifetime, but rather to alert some of the other

> > > 1800+ members of this group who might be more interested

> > > learning more about this topic.

> > >

> > >

> > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > Hi - My response to you was due to your coming across as

> a

> > > > sanctimonious a-hole, so I'm disregarding your "warnings"

> in

> > > favor

> > > > of instruction and information from sources I respect and

> > > welcome.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ,

> "just4amusement"

> > > > <just4amusement> wrote:

> > > > > Your response is much too cavalier and comes from a

> lack

> > > of

> > > > > knowleged of the potential of energetic practices. All too

> > > often

> > > > it

> > > > > is the ego that calls and not the path.

> > > > >

> > > > > You have already started practicing Hatha Yoga. You

> need to

> > > be

> > > > > aware of its power and the possible consequences of

> > > practicing

> > > > > it. If you do not inform yourself on Prana, the Chakras,

> > Talas,

> > > > > Lokas and their inhabitants, the various types of Karma,

> > > Gunas,

> > > > > the Atman and Brahman you will not have good

> experiences

> > > > > from Prana surges, much less Kundalini rising, and you

> will

> > > not

> > > > > have the necessary context within to understand the

> > > > > consequences of Kundalini. You will be overwhelmed.

> > > > >

> > > > > PLEASE do not treat Hatha Yoga or any other energetic

> > > practice

> > > > > lightly. You do not have the resources at the moment to

> deal

> > > with

> > > > > Kundalini. People go after these energetic practices

> > > unprepared

> > > > > and forgetting that they actually work. The time to ask

> > > yourself

> > > > > 'What happens when these practices have an effect on

> my

> > > pranic

> > > > > structure" is before those practices have that effect. Then

> > you

> > > > can

> > > > > prepare, strengthen and purify yourself to facilitate the

> > > passage

> > > > > of Kundalini when and if it arises.

> > > > >

> > > > > To blindly engage in these energetic practices is to court

> > > > > disaster.

> > > > >

> > > > > To mitigate spiritual emergence problems you have to

> rise

> > > > > above Tamas and Rajas and eventually even Sattwa. You

> > > have

> > > > > to rise above ego and burn off Karma. Then you can start

> > > using

> > > > > Bija Mantras, Mudras and Bandhas in your Hatha Yoga

> > > practice

> > > > > and have some hope of an effortless and transformative

> > > > > Kundalini rising.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you do all of this and know about the topics outlined,

> then

> > > > you,

> > > > > in addition to being able to face Kunadalini rising, are,

in

> > > > fact, a

> > > > > Hindu regardless of race, color, or previous creed.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > > > Well, I think you should begin from where you are, and

> trust

> > > > > that

> > > > > > your path will call to you when you are ready to hear it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ,

> > > "just4amusement"

> > > > > > <just4amusement> wrote:

> > > > > > > Whew! Where to begin?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hatha Yoga is not a form of physical exercise. As its

> > > name

> > > > > > > clearly states it is about Prana and specifically about

> > > > > Kundalini.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you are not looking at the Yamas and Niyamas in

> your

> > > life

> > > > > then

> > > > > > > not only are you not 'doing' Yoga but rather some form

> of

> > > > > physical

> > > > > > > exercise but more seriously you are endangering your

> > > > > mental

> > > > > > > and physical life. If Kundalini were to arise in you,

> > your

> > > > lack

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > purification would result you experiencing some

> > > debilitation

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > the movement of Kundalini through your Karmic

> blocks,

> > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > even permanent psychosis or death. It is not for

> nothing,

> > > > that

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > western psychiatric profession has finally

> acknowledged

> > > > > > > 'spiritual emergence syndrome' where people such

> as

> > > you

> > > > > who

> > > > > > > do not prepare themselves for high Prana surges,

> much

> > > less

> > > > > > > Kundalini, run into difficulty with their spiritual

> > endeavors.

> > > > > > There

> > > > > > > are no short cuts to Self-Realization, one must

> prepare

> > > > > > > themselves and remove ego, desire and karma

> > > influences,

> > > > > > > replacing them with detachment, objectivity,

> equinimity,

> > > > > selfless

> > > > > > > service, and most importantly mumukshatwa, a

> > > one-pointed

> > > > > > > focus on the Divine to the exclusion of all else.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hari Om

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , "Mary Ann"

> > > > > > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > > > > > Hi - I was kind of joking about the bija mantras in

> that

> > > > > > > someone had

> > > > > > > > posted recently that all serious students of

> hathayoga

> > > or

> > > > > yoga

> > > > > > > use

> > > > > > > > them, and I haven't. In fact, I was first introduced

to

> > them

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > asana practice in a workshop called Shakti

> Sadhana

> > > here

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the Los

> > > > > > > > Angeles area, but the teacher was truly a buffoon,

> and I

> > > > > hadn't

> > > > > > > > really thought of the practice again until recently.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I guess I'm also saying I don't want to have to

> become

> > > > > Hindu to

> > > > > > > > practice yoga. I think of it more the way Amma says

> > > about

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > Divine - if you have a heart of love and compassion,

> you

> > > > > don't

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > to pray to any God(dess); God is love and

> compassion.

> > > I

> > > > > am

> > > > > > > drawn to

> > > > > > > > the information available through yoga, and

> especially

> > > > > > > hathayoga.

> > > > > > > > This is not meant to disparage any religion or belief

> > > about

> > > > > what

> > > > > > > > yoga is. I prefer to let yoga, through hathayoga,

> teach

> > > me.

> > > > > > > > Otherwise, I feel a bit of pressure to conform to

> > > something

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > doesn't really fit for me in terms of identifying

with a

> > > > > > religion.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I also haven't been practicing Ashtanga, the 8 limbs.

> I

> > > > > guess I

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > been practicing only hathayoga, with most success

> > > from

> > > > > me

> > > > > > > coming

> > > > > > > > through the Viniyoga lineage.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What about you? Are you a hathayoga practitioner,

> or

> > > > > > > Ashtanga?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ,

> > > > > "manoj_menon"

> > > > > > > > <ammademon@g...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > , "Mary

> Ann"

> > > > > > > > > <buttercookie61> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > This distinction matters to me because I am not

> a

> > > > > Hindu,

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > have no

> > > > > > > > > > intention of becoming Hindu, if that is even

> > possible

> > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > westerners.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I don't see why it is not possible. if there can be

> > > > western

> > > > > > > > buddhists

> > > > > > > > > (Robert Thurman, Jack Cornfield etc), there can

> be

> > > > > western

> > > > > > > hindus

> > > > > > > > too.

> > > > > > > > > As extreme examples, look at the late Sivaya

> > > > > Subramuniya

> > > > > > > Swami and

> > > > > > > > > Swami Satyananda Saraswati. There are many

> > > examples

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > reasonably-committed householder westerners

> too.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But I am a serious yoga student/practitioner

> (though

> > > I'm

> > > > > > > > > > sure purists would argue against this, esp.

> since I

> > > > > haven't

> > > > > > > yet

> > > > > > > > > > begun incorporating bija mantras into my

> practice

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Ashtanga-yoga, that was earliest organized by

> > > Patanjali

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > written

> > > > > > > > > form, does not *require* usage of bijas to make

> you a

> > > > > yoga

> > > > > > > > practioner.

> > > > > > > > > Although if you have a guru (and you usually must

> to

> > > > > practice

> > > > > > > it in

> > > > > > > > > its entirety), and (S)he imparts it you as part of

the

> > > > > > practice,

> > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > you must incorporate the bijas too.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Essentially, ashtanga-yoga is about breathing

> > > in-and-out

> > > > > into

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > goal

> > > > > > > > > using the techniques of mediation at its higher

> > > stages

> > > > > (all

> > > > > > > learned

> > > > > > > > > usually under the guidance of a qualified guru; to

> > give

> > > > you

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > > idea on

> > > > > > > > > the insistence of the guru for this practice,

> consider

> > > him

> > > > > as

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > coach

> > > > > > > > > of a sports team like basketball or football and

> give

> > > him

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > (and possibly more) respect); anything else other

> > > than

> > > > > > > breathing

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > meditation is an addition made by various gurus

> > > based

> > > > > on

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > shisya's

> > > > > > > > > spiritual make-up.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Now, Hatha-yoga takes the 3rd limb of the

> ashtanga -

> > > > > asana

> > > > > > > - to its

> > > > > > > > > extreme and has developed wonderful

> complicated

> > > > > > > exercises. Ashtanga

> > > > > > > > > focusses on moderation; to focus on all the 8

> limbs to

> > > go

> > > > > into

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > goal. It is said that it is possible to achieve the

> > goal

> > > > using

> > > > > > > > Hatha

> > > > > > > > > alone, but the pitfalls (distractions) are many,

and

> > > > > success

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > rare

> > > > > > > > > but usually spectacular.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If you do not have a guru and are practising the

> 3rd

> > > anga

> > > > > > > (limb or

> > > > > > > > > component) of the ashtanga, i.e. asana, as you

> are

> > > > > drawn to

> > > > > > > it, I

> > > > > > > > do

> > > > > > > > > not think you need to worry about non-usage of

> bijas

> > > to

> > > > > stop

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > being qualified as a serious yoga student.