Guest guest Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Here's a bone I've been picking at for quite some time. Mary Ann has no desire to become a Hindu, she just wants to practice Hatha. My own position is the complete reverse of this. I have mentioned that I am retired on a Disability pension. I have crippling arthritis; I cannot stand on my own two feet for more than a few minutes at a time. I can't walk for more than half a block before needing to stop and rest. Padmaasana? Hah! My left hip doesn't rotate at all. My fingers are twisted like twigs -- most mudras are impossible for me. I have gone to Integral Yoga for their "Easy Hatha" courses -- it's not easy enough for me. Hatha Yoga is apparently NOT my path. But I can read, I can chant and sing, I can sit still and meditate, and the Devas (and especially the Goddess) are very present for me. Yet I have met people (I would not be so presumptious to accuse them of being sanctimonious a-holes!) who have told me, "Oh, you can't maintain a sadhana if you're so crippled that basic hatha asanas are beyond your capability." I tell this to the Goddess, and she just laughs. And I think there's room in Shakti Sadhana for both the Mary Anns and the Lens. I could not possibly complete all the gyrations of the Surya Namaskar, Mary Ann. I have trouble with Shava asana! (My knees don't flex fully straight anymore.) So my question: Is there Sadhana without Hatha? Only a week before Navaratri. May Mahesvari grant you whatever you need. -- Len/ Kalipadma --- Mary Ann <buttercookie61 wrote: > Hi - > > Hm, I guess you misunderstood me. Yes, I too > appreciate Lalit's > comments. > > For me, understanding information rendered by > Patanjali and others > about yoga is sometimes better achieved through > interpretive > sources, such as Bija Bennett's book. She has, BTW, > worked > extensively with Deepak Chopra, someone whose work > also speaks to > me. Bennett explains about the 5 koshas, though she > doesn't call > them that. The initial posting here by Suresh Deepak > was correct, I > assume, in answering my question as to what could > the "5 dimensions > of yoga" be referring to, but I didn't know those > terms until I > found them explained in Bennett's book. I posted > them for any others > who might want such info. > > My understanding is that not all members are Hindu > here, and I > wasn't trying to impress any Hindus with my > knowledge or lack > thereof. I was simply posting about yoga, the > physical aspects, and > the exploration of other aspects which are beginning > (finally) to be > dealt with at a studio where I have been going for > several years (re > the workshop about the 5 dimensions of yoga). And > yes, the lack of > attention to those aspects at said studio has made > for overwhelm, > and necessitated much inquiry outside that source, > which is one of > the reasons I am here as a member and co-moderator > of Shakti Sadhana. > > But a message that starts off with, "Whew! Where to > begin?" and then > tells basic information known to even westerners who > only want to > take yoga for its physical benefits, was, if not > sanctimonious, then > coming from some kind of assumption, and that is > what I reacted to. > > Namaste, > Mary Ann > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 "So my question: Is there Sadhana without Hatha?" Yes. Here are a few suggestions from Swami Sivananda: 1. Kundalini can be awakened by the practice of Asan, Pranayam, Mudras, Japa, and by the grace of Guru. 2. Japa alone is quite sufficient to awaken Kundalini. 3. Do selfless service. Pray to God from the bottom of your heart (Antarika). Have Satsang. Meditate. Read the Gita and the Upanishads. Live alone. Live in seclusion for six months. Take Sattvic food. Give up meat, fish, eggs, liquors, chillies, oil, black sugar, onions and garlic. 4. A righteous man is he who is pure in thought, word, and deed and who observes Niyama and Yama to the very letter. He ever sticks to Dharma even in the face of a bayonet. He never moves astray for the sake of paltry gains and selfish ends. He is ever pious, God-fearing, Self-centered, and selfless. He has cosmic vision and a broad outlook. He is equanimous and tolerant towards all. He is mine of all virtues like charity, nobility. 5. [Develop Bhakti] by satsang, by repeating the Lord's name, doing Kirtan, hearing Kathas, reading the Ramayana, Bhagavata and the lives of Bhaktas - Bhakat Vijayam and Bhakta Lilamrita - Vishnu Sahasranama, Narada Bhakti Sutras and Sandilya Sutras. You must develop Vairagya. This is important. 6. The mind gets concentration little by little, and the portion of the mind which is spiritually inclined - call it the higher mind - engages itself in Sadhana, whereas the part of the mind that which is more aware of its worldly Samskaras runs along its set grooves. Force of habit makes the repetition of prayers mechanical. But the higher mind should be made to concentrate on the meaning. Then the action of the mind will be held and the lower part of the mind will have less opportunity to detract from the object in view. The whole trouble with careless Sadhana is that it tends to become mechanical without making an impression on the life of the aspirant. , Len Rosenberg <kalipadma108> wrote: > > Here's a bone I've been picking at for quite some > time. > > Mary Ann has no desire to become a Hindu, she just > wants to practice Hatha. My own position is the > complete reverse of this. > > I have mentioned that I am retired on a Disability > pension. I have crippling arthritis; I cannot stand > on my own two feet for more than a few minutes at a > time. I can't walk for more than half a block before > needing to stop and rest. Padmaasana? Hah! My left > hip doesn't rotate at all. My fingers are twisted > like twigs -- most mudras are impossible for me. > > I have gone to Integral Yoga for their "Easy Hatha" > courses -- it's not easy enough for me. > > Hatha Yoga is apparently NOT my path. But I can read, > I can chant and sing, I can sit still and meditate, > and the Devas (and especially the Goddess) are very > present for me. > > Yet I have met people (I would not be so presumptious > to accuse them of being sanctimonious a-holes!) who > have told me, "Oh, you can't maintain a sadhana if > you're so crippled that basic hatha asanas are beyond > your capability." > > I tell this to the Goddess, and she just laughs. > > And I think there's room in Shakti Sadhana for both > the Mary Anns and the Lens. > > I could not possibly complete all the gyrations of the > Surya Namaskar, Mary Ann. I have trouble with Shava > asana! (My knees don't flex fully straight anymore.) > > So my question: Is there Sadhana without Hatha? > > Only a week before Navaratri. May Mahesvari grant you > whatever you need. > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > --- Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > Hi - > > > > Hm, I guess you misunderstood me. Yes, I too > > appreciate Lalit's > > comments. > > > > For me, understanding information rendered by > > Patanjali and others > > about yoga is sometimes better achieved through > > interpretive > > sources, such as Bija Bennett's book. She has, BTW, > > worked > > extensively with Deepak Chopra, someone whose work > > also speaks to > > me. Bennett explains about the 5 koshas, though she > > doesn't call > > them that. The initial posting here by Suresh Deepak > > was correct, I > > assume, in answering my question as to what could > > the "5 dimensions > > of yoga" be referring to, but I didn't know those > > terms until I > > found them explained in Bennett's book. I posted > > them for any others > > who might want such info. > > > > My understanding is that not all members are Hindu > > here, and I > > wasn't trying to impress any Hindus with my > > knowledge or lack > > thereof. I was simply posting about yoga, the > > physical aspects, and > > the exploration of other aspects which are beginning > > (finally) to be > > dealt with at a studio where I have been going for > > several years (re > > the workshop about the 5 dimensions of yoga). And > > yes, the lack of > > attention to those aspects at said studio has made > > for overwhelm, > > and necessitated much inquiry outside that source, > > which is one of > > the reasons I am here as a member and co-moderator > > of Shakti Sadhana. > > > > But a message that starts off with, "Whew! Where to > > begin?" and then > > tells basic information known to even westerners who > > only want to > > take yoga for its physical benefits, was, if not > > sanctimonious, then > > coming from some kind of assumption, and that is > > what I reacted to. > > > > Namaste, > > Mary Ann > > > > > > > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Hi Len: Thanks for a nice post. Sorry to hear of your health issues; I am sure that I am not alone in the Group in sending prayers and best wishes. *** So my question: Is there Sadhana without Hatha? *** There can most certainly be Sadhana without hatha; however, hatha without Sadhana is incomplete. I say this because hatha asanas developed as a methodology for reaching the subtle koshas through the physical kosha. A vast number of other methodologies exist as well, which do not incorporate hatha. Upon the body's death, the physical effects of the hatha die with it; only the subtle effects of the underlying sadhana survive with the soul. Of course, none of this is to suggest that hatha without sadhana is useless. It is a great exercise program and "stress-reduction technique" for many. To each according to their understanding and need, that's itl. *** And I think there's room in Shakti Sadhana for both the Mary Anns and the Lens. *** Oh, without a doubt. ;-) *** Only a week before Navaratri. May Mahesvari grant you whatever you need. *** And you as well. DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 It is a very elementary observation: Sadhana is possible until the last breath. Sadhana like Yoga Nidra is great because it is falling asleep repeating mantra of god or any being you really like and getup and see that you were doing it and continue it at all times. I am told its impact , especially the sleeing part is large. I hope Swamiji makes the necessary corrections to this second hand info, so that no one is mislead. --- just4amusement <just4amusement wrote: > "So my question: Is there Sadhana without Hatha?" > > Yes. Here are a few suggestions from Swami > Sivananda: > 1. Kundalini can be awakened by the practice of > Asan, > Pranayam, Mudras, Japa, and by the grace of Guru. > 2. Japa alone is quite sufficient to awaken > Kundalini. > 3. Do selfless service. Pray to God from the bottom > of your heart > (Antarika). Have Satsang. Meditate. Read the Gita > and the > Upanishads. Live alone. Live in seclusion for six > months. Take > Sattvic food. Give up meat, fish, eggs, liquors, > chillies, oil, black > sugar, onions and garlic. > 4. A righteous man is he who is pure in thought, > word, and deed > and who observes Niyama and Yama to the very > letter. He ever > sticks to Dharma even in the face of a bayonet. He > never moves > astray for the sake of paltry gains and selfish > ends. He is ever > pious, God-fearing, Self-centered, and selfless. He > has cosmic > vision and a broad outlook. He is equanimous and > tolerant > towards all. He is mine of all virtues like charity, > nobility. > 5. [Develop Bhakti] by satsang, by repeating the > Lord's name, > doing Kirtan, hearing Kathas, reading the Ramayana, > Bhagavata > and the lives of Bhaktas - Bhakat Vijayam and Bhakta > Lilamrita - > Vishnu Sahasranama, Narada Bhakti Sutras and > Sandilya > Sutras. You must develop Vairagya. This is > important. > 6. The mind gets concentration little by little, and > the portion of > the mind which is spiritually inclined - call it the > higher mind - > engages itself in Sadhana, whereas the part of the > mind that > which is more aware of its worldly Samskaras runs > along its set > grooves. Force of habit makes the repetition of > prayers > mechanical. But the higher mind should be made to > concentrate > on the meaning. Then the action of the mind will be > held and the > lower part of the mind will have less opportunity to > detract from > the object in view. The whole trouble with careless > Sadhana is > that it tends to become mechanical without making an > > impression on the life of the aspirant. > > , Len Rosenberg > > <kalipadma108> wrote: > > > > Here's a bone I've been picking at for quite some > > time. > > > > Mary Ann has no desire to become a Hindu, she just > > wants to practice Hatha. My own position is the > > complete reverse of this. > > > > I have mentioned that I am retired on a Disability > > pension. I have crippling arthritis; I cannot > stand > > on my own two feet for more than a few minutes at > a > > time. I can't walk for more than half a block > before > > needing to stop and rest. Padmaasana? Hah! My > left > > hip doesn't rotate at all. My fingers are twisted > > like twigs -- most mudras are impossible for me. > > > > I have gone to Integral Yoga for their "Easy > Hatha" > > courses -- it's not easy enough for me. > > > > Hatha Yoga is apparently NOT my path. But I can > read, > > I can chant and sing, I can sit still and > meditate, > > and the Devas (and especially the Goddess) are > very > > present for me. > > > > Yet I have met people (I would not be so > presumptious > > to accuse them of being sanctimonious a-holes!) > who > > have told me, "Oh, you can't maintain a sadhana if > > you're so crippled that basic hatha asanas are > beyond > > your capability." > > > > I tell this to the Goddess, and she just laughs. > > > > And I think there's room in Shakti Sadhana for > both > > the Mary Anns and the Lens. > > > > I could not possibly complete all the gyrations of > the > > Surya Namaskar, Mary Ann. I have trouble with > Shava > > asana! (My knees don't flex fully straight > anymore.) > > > > So my question: Is there Sadhana without Hatha? > > > > Only a week before Navaratri. May Mahesvari grant > you > > whatever you need. > > > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > > > > --- Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > > > Hi - > > > > > > Hm, I guess you misunderstood me. Yes, I too > > > appreciate Lalit's > > > comments. > > > > > > For me, understanding information rendered by > > > Patanjali and others > > > about yoga is sometimes better achieved through > > > interpretive > > > sources, such as Bija Bennett's book. She has, > BTW, > > > worked > > > extensively with Deepak Chopra, someone whose > work > > > also speaks to > > > me. Bennett explains about the 5 koshas, though > she > > > doesn't call > > > them that. The initial posting here by Suresh > Deepak > > > was correct, I > > > assume, in answering my question as to what > could > > > the "5 dimensions > > > of yoga" be referring to, but I didn't know > those > > > terms until I > > > found them explained in Bennett's book. I posted > > > them for any others > > > who might want such info. > > > > > > My understanding is that not all members are > Hindu > > > here, and I > > > wasn't trying to impress any Hindus with my > > > knowledge or lack > > > thereof. I was simply posting about yoga, the > > > physical aspects, and > > > the exploration of other aspects which are > beginning > > > (finally) to be > > > dealt with at a studio where I have been going > for > > > several years (re > > > the workshop about the 5 dimensions of yoga). > And > > > yes, the lack of > > > attention to those aspects at said studio has > made > > > for overwhelm, > > > and necessitated much inquiry outside that > source, > > > which is one of > > > the reasons I am here as a member and > co-moderator > > > of Shakti Sadhana. > > > > > > But a message that starts off with, "Whew! Where > to > > > begin?" and then > > > tells basic information known to even westerners > who > > > only want to > > > take yoga for its physical benefits, was, if not > > > sanctimonious, then > > > coming from some kind of assumption, and that is > > > what I reacted to. > > > > === message truncated === Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Hi Len Sorry to hear about your health problems My mother was diagnised as arthiritis but she did some yogic breathing exercises and homeopathy medicines and cured herself I can share those things with you.. Doing Kapalbatti pranayam and anuloma-viloma pranayam (yogic breathing exercise) would help you a lot homeopath medicines would be Arnica 200 and Rhus tox 200 thrice a day 4 pills regards vikram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Vikram: Why not leave it to qualified ppl to prescribe pranayama and homeopathic medicines? Are you aware that homeo medicines are selected on the basis of the patient's qualities and not the disease? Many medicines have similar properties but which is selected depends on a plenthora of factors. What was right for your mother MAY NOT be the right thing for Len. Similarly are you aware of the side effects of Kapalabaddhi?? unless u know the results and you have been practicing it and has encounteres its development, please desists. These are things not done on teh basis of book knowledge. This is not a priscription forum. --- vikram vanam <vikram_vanam2005 wrote: > Hi Len > > Sorry to hear about your health problems > > My mother was diagnised as arthiritis but she did > some yogic breathing exercises and homeopathy > medicines and cured herself > > I can share those things with you.. > > Doing Kapalbatti pranayam and anuloma-viloma > pranayam (yogic breathing exercise) would help you a > lot > > homeopath medicines would be Arnica 200 and Rhus tox > 200 thrice a day 4 pills > > regards > vikram > > > > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Hi Its the general precription for Arthiritis, I am a student of homeopathy... Arnica and Rhus tox are clearly indicated for Arthiritis About kapalbatti, its a pranayam that has to be started slowly and there are no side effects I have been partising kapalbatti regularly and so far no side effects I only wanted to offer help with the little bit knowledge I have regards vikram sankara menon <kochu1tz wrote: Vikram: Why not leave it to qualified ppl to prescribe pranayama and homeopathic medicines? Are you aware that homeo medicines are selected on the basis of the patient's qualities and not the disease? Many medicines have similar properties but which is selected depends on a plenthora of factors. What was right for your mother MAY NOT be the right thing for Len. Similarly are you aware of the side effects of Kapalabaddhi?? unless u know the results and you have been practicing it and has encounteres its development, please desists. These are things not done on teh basis of book knowledge. This is not a priscription forum. --- vikram vanam <vikram_vanam2005 wrote: > Hi Len > > Sorry to hear about your health problems > > My mother was diagnised as arthiritis but she did > some yogic breathing exercises and homeopathy > medicines and cured herself > > I can share those things with you.. > > Doing Kapalbatti pranayam and anuloma-viloma > pranayam (yogic breathing exercise) would help you a > lot > > homeopath medicines would be Arnica 200 and Rhus tox > 200 thrice a day 4 pills > > regards > vikram > > > > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Traditions Divine Visit your group "" on the web. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 My thoughts in reading Len's message caused me to remember that there are some folks who do not have control over their bodies, and who may never, and I dont' feel that one should always view the condition of the body as the same as the condition of the mind. When a baby is born "deformed" for example, it is still a baby, not a gnarled tree (I'm sure some others would disagree). Such way of viewing the body may be a result of attachment, even though the teachings that are there to help one attain a yogic detachment do seem to equate the state of the body with the state of the mind. Many years ago, I could not do hathayoga at all due to so much tension. Recently, I have been rehabilitating my back, and that has meant completely changing how I have been "doing" yoga since I've felt more able to work with asanas. But each to his/her own as far as what works. Mary Ann , vikram vanam <vikram_vanam2005> wrote: > Hi > > Its the general precription for Arthiritis, I am a student of homeopathy... > > Arnica and Rhus tox are clearly indicated for Arthiritis > > About kapalbatti, its a pranayam that has to be started slowly and there are no side effects > > I have been partising kapalbatti regularly and so far no side effects > > I only wanted to offer help with the little bit knowledge I have > > regards > vikram > > sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > Vikram: > > Why not leave it to qualified ppl to prescribe > pranayama and homeopathic medicines? > > Are you aware that homeo medicines are selected on the > basis of the patient's qualities and not the disease? > Many medicines have similar properties but which is > selected depends on a plenthora of factors. What was > right for your mother MAY NOT be the right thing for > Len. > > Similarly are you aware of the side effects of > Kapalabaddhi?? unless u know the results and you have > been practicing it and has encounteres its > development, please desists. These are things not done > on teh basis of book knowledge. This is not a > priscription forum. > > > --- vikram vanam <vikram_vanam2005> wrote: > > > Hi Len > > > > Sorry to hear about your health problems > > > > My mother was diagnised as arthiritis but she did > > some yogic breathing exercises and homeopathy > > medicines and cured herself > > > > I can share those things with you.. > > > > Doing Kapalbatti pranayam and anuloma-viloma > > pranayam (yogic breathing exercise) would help you a > > lot > > > > homeopath medicines would be Arnica 200 and Rhus tox > > 200 thrice a day 4 pills > > > > regards > > vikram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > > > > Traditions Divine > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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