Sex and Sadhna !!

[Guest guest]

Wow, interesting quote. I'm reading a biography of Wilhelm Reich,

and it's precisely an illicit relationship of his mother's that led

to terrible pain and anguish, death, craziness in the family. I

believe it led to his mother's suicide and his father's suicide.

 

, sankara menon <kochu1tz>

wrote:

>

> Oh I forgot!! There is a Parashurama aphorism "Swa maatru jaaravat

gopyataaThou shalt keep it secret as thou would an illicit

relationship of your mother". Now I unerstand the full meaning of

it. For ppl n of THAT leel it is ununerstandable. If Mishra saab is

to search he will unerstand. The higher teachings are really ended

and the code is revealed only to the worthy. And in other plaes they

are explicit and as an experiment by Nora here on SS showed, only

the worthy even notice it.

> Arjuna Taranandanatha <bhagatirtha@m...> wrote:93,

>

> , Lalit Mishra <litsol>

wrote:

> > Sex is mere a physical excercise and the frustrated guru who

took to sadhan path and couldn't get enough sex, brought this as a

sadhana activity, before dignifying sex as a spritual means of

sadhna see to dogs and pigs, they do sex like hell, are they getting

spritually enlightenment ???

>

> This is the utter nonsense.

> And while U do have a full right to be stuck in this worldly

opinions

> and suffer, U have no right to speak against saints whom U no

nothing about! Keep this in mind, DEVI is not every time soft and

kind. What U say is aparadha to Her - because U put blame on Her

revelation and holy people.

>

> Coming to the point of Ur arguement, it doesn't stand any

critisism.

> If U have no consciousness and only body, it may be right for U

> personally. But for those who have heart and soul, this is wrong.

Pigs

> and dogs BTW do NOT enjoy sex, they simply multiply. There is no

love

> and no joy - because of no consciousness. Humans are the only able

to

> freely enjoy sex - that is what makes tremendous difference with

animals.

>

> Maybe for U sex is same as urination - then i pity U... Enjoy Ur

> frustrated mind and accept final destruction - vinAshakAle viparIta

> buddhiH...

>

>

> > sex is a pleasurable act but no way a special divine act, if sex

is

> special then urinating is also same way speacial. so, pls. dont get

> confused with Sex Specific Kauls or Guru's. they are behind

beautifull

> girls any way,,,, just that is their frustration.

>

> When U say that to be behind a girl is something wrong - it is Ur

mind

> who is sick.

> Who are perverted are those "gurus" who preach celibacy to devotees

> but f...ck young boys or women in private. Those freaks develop

these

> "antisex" ideas due to their hypocrisy. Yes, there are some people

who

> speak about Tantra and do nonsense. But they are MUCH less in

number

> than fake yogis, money-minded sannyasis and politics from religion.

>

> Also, EVERY pleasurable act can be done as sacred. Any bliss

> manifested is a form of Brahman, naturally Brahman can be known

> through conscious enjoyment.

>

>

> > if u know any single guru who got Siddhi or Height becoz of Sex

in

> his life as a sadhana activity, pls. share with all of us.

>

> YES i do. And several more advanced upasakas here in group do know.

>

> In the name of Truth,

> A.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Visit your group "" on the web.

>

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> for Good

> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Agreed.

 

, "SophiasRealm"

<SophiasRealm@a...> wrote:

> In my personal opinion, part of the problem is the segragation of

all discussion of sex into a separate category from spirituality.

>

> If sex cant' be discussed in a spiritual way that teaches young

> people to regard it as a spiritual subject matter and to regard

their bodies as spiritual energies and to have an understanding of

sex in a spiritual context, they will continue to rebell against

spirituality, rejecting puritanical spirituality that doesn't

address their questions, and will go to find their own answers,

through wanton promiscuity and rebellion and the vast information

about sex that as Nora pointed out is secular information about sex

that is sex to sell things and sex as a commodity and using people

for sex, rather than to treat it with respect as it deserves cuz

Spiritual Energies ARE at the Center of human sexuality and it IS a

spiritual topic if it is treated as one.

>

> If puritanical spiritualities continue to shove the body down as a

> thing that belongs in the gutter, then sex will remain in the

gutter

> of our society in the secular gutter in rampant promiscuity and

> people using each other as if their bodies where just what

> puritanical spiritualities say they are "dirty and of no spiritual

> import"

>

> , "NMadasamy"

<nmadasamy@s...>

> wrote:

> > My apology the second statement is mine ;

> >

> > , ishaan

<ishwarananda@g...>

> > wrote:

> > > The feeling that I am having now...Hmm, now I know why ancient

> > tantra

> > > sadhaks kept their ways secret. These things must be kept

secret

> > and not be opened to all is my opinion as of now. This path is

> > extremely difficult and there is great danger of falling down

> > instead of rising. Sir I request you to keep these things secret

> > because not everyone is blessed with a real guru in Shakti

Sadhana.

> > This is just my personal opinion, nothing against anyone.

> > >

> > > Hariom...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Nora :

> > Well we agree your suggestion that certain things must be kept

> > secret. hey! just some time back somebody comes here and say, to

> > keep information and knowledge secret is being egolistical and

it

> is

> > bad. It should be avoided at all. How ironic eh!.

> > >

> > > But you see we are in the age of information revolution. You

can

> > get what ever information you want in the net even how to

assemble

> a

> > bomb. Thus it is the obligation of Shakti Sadhana to try our

best

> to

> > { I do not want to use this word but I cant think of other terms

to

> > use ] 'guide' others who comes here to seek the information. We

do

> > not claim to be the authority in Shakti Sadhana, but we provide

> what

> > we know best with the guidance with our Guru here.

[Guest guest]

for the unitiated and ineligible what you say is absolutly right. But that doeds

not mean that it is the ONLY path. One in 10,000 or 100 000 becomes a sadhak and

one in a million sadhaks is lucky to find the righnt guru and mong them one may

- just MAY qualify for that path.

 

It is not for every one.

 

ishaan <ishwarananda wrote:

I am sorry guys but if sex is given so much importance then it will not lead to

spiritual elevation but it will lead to moral wrecks and social doom.This is my

stromgest feeling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

93,

 

Interesting to note how much negative emotions are aroused in those

who are "sattvic" and against "dirty" things like sex...

Very informative from the psycological point of view .

 

 

, sankara menon <kochu1tz>

wrote:

> for the unitiated and ineligible what you say is absolutly right.

But that doeds not mean that it is the ONLY path. One in 10,000 or 100

000 becomes a sadhak and one in a million sadhaks is lucky to find the

righnt guru and mong them one may - just MAY qualify for that path.

>

> It is not for every one.

>

> ishaan <ishwarananda@g...> wrote:

> I am sorry guys but if sex is given so much importance then it will

not lead to spiritual elevation but it will lead to moral wrecks and

social doom.This is my stromgest feeling.

[Guest guest]

93,

 

Shakti is Sexual - in metaphisic sense - above anything, and AFTER

that Mother. Because of strict and simple reason - the Godhead is

"composed of" Siva and Shakti, Prakasha and Vimarsha, while human and

creation are their emanation, in regard to which She is "Mother". Thus

erotic love is primer to any other, which is reflected in Hindu

scriptures, depicting shringara-rasa as the highest emotion.

 

Ramakrishna had sex according to certain accounts. Of course we cannot

verify this now, but there are no grounds for rejecting such possibility.

Then, there were and are too many saints and siddhas who had wifes,

shaktis, enjoyed sex in life and in sadhana both. Lets start from

Vedic rishis . Then procede to kaula-siddhas: Abhinavagupta,

Maheshvarananda, Purnananda, Vamakshepa... And finish with modern

kaulikas: Amritananda, Ganapati Sachchidananda and several less famous

saints.

 

Finally, everyone has his own way and Will is sacred. No one is to be

ideal to copy. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

 

A.

 

 

, ishaan <ishwarananda@g...> wrote:

> For the purpose of the group I think that it is better to talk about

Shakti more as a Mother rather than Giving a Sexual Dimension to it.

> It is better for the group. Consider a woman a Mother First and keep

the example of Ramakrishna Paramhansa in front of you.

> Ramakrishna Paramhansa was predominantly as Shakti Sadhak and was at

the pinnacle of tantra sadhana. Ramakrishna Paramhansa never had Sex.

He must be our Ideal.

>

> Hariom.

[Guest guest]

93,

 

I bow to U, kula-yogini!

 

Ur words are wise and exact. And Ur guru is a great person...

 

 

, "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> wrote:

[Guest guest]

93,

 

Sri Sankara, U are right. But there is one more statement in the

Scripture - "kula-sadhana must be opened" in kali-yuga. This was the

teaching of my kulacharya...

In fact i expect U agree with this to some degree. Time has changed

and now Devi changed old rules. As one kaula said, "Ocean of Kula will

flood the ocean of the worldly existance" (forgot the sanskrit

original of this sutra, sorry)...

 

Pranam,

A.

 

, sankara menon <kochu1tz>

wrote:

>

> Oh I forgot!! There is a Parashurama aphorism "Swa maatru jaaravat

gopyataaThou shalt keep it secret as thou would an illicit

relationship of your mother".

[Guest guest]

, "silentwatcher1947"

<silentwatcher1947> wrote:

>

>

> You seemed to be fooled by a fake guru into it and seems like you

> yourself had sex with your guru to gain .

>

>

> In , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...>

wrote:

>

> >

> > I am being told by my guru, in olden days, one of the ways of

the

> > guru to teach the sisya esp the women abt some shakti sadhana

> > concepts is via sex. But that is olden days. Mind you my guru is

not

> > some western initiate with this new age ideas. He/She is a

> > traditionalist and from India.

 

 

This whole statement tells me that you never really read nor try to

find an understanding at all. Did you read the statment I put

there : In the olden days. Weather its still a practice it is still

subjective. We have stress it many time : Sex is not for all. And

like many you choose to ignore the basic issue. Yes ! it seems you

too are obsess with Sex. This people is what I am trying to tell

you. People are so obsess with Sex that they dont think first. Its

their weakness and they choose not to admit it. They like to blame

on others of their weakness.

 

Have you met my guru. Do you whom who that person is? For you to

come here can call others fake, showed how limited your mentality

capacity to go beyong.

 

 

Take my advise Silentwatcher: Go and have Sex. Then come here and

talk. I assume you never had one, that explains all this

frustration.

[Guest guest]

it is said vaak is God. So it is said in all religions including the a brahamic

faiths. Here what we see is an inability to understand vAk.

 

Nora never said she has sex with her Guru. All she said was while discussing

theory the old practices were mentioned. NOT THAT IT TOOK PLACE BETWEEN HER AND

HER GURU.

 

i know an 80+ kaula guru wo just seats the female deciple on his lap then smile

and say we are supposeed to have se; but am I not too old? this is symbolic

consummation. This too is another path. T

 

There are paths and paths. one for each so lets not dwell on what is good for

one if it is not aceptble to you.

 

Dear friends pay obeisence to Saraswati as vaak and read carefully before

exploding.

 

NMadasamy <nmadasamy wrote:

, "silentwatcher1947"

<silentwatcher1947> wrote:

>

>

> You seemed to be fooled by a fake guru into it and seems like you

> yourself had sex with your guru to gain .

>

>

> In , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...>

wrote:

>

> >

> > I am being told by my guru, in olden days, one of the ways of

the

> > guru to teach the sisya esp the women abt some shakti sadhana

> > concepts is via sex. But that is olden days. Mind you my guru is

not

> > some western initiate with this new age ideas. He/She is a

> > traditionalist and from India.

 

 

This whole statement tells me that you never really read nor try to

find an understanding at all. Did you read the statment I put

there : In the olden days. Weather its still a practice it is still

subjective. We have stress it many time : Sex is not for all. And

like many you choose to ignore the basic issue. Yes ! it seems you

too are obsess with Sex. This people is what I am trying to tell

you. People are so obsess with Sex that they dont think first. Its

their weakness and they choose not to admit it. They like to blame

on others of their weakness.

 

Have you met my guru. Do you whom who that person is? For you to

come here can call others fake, showed how limited your mentality

capacity to go beyong.

 

 

Take my advise Silentwatcher: Go and have Sex. Then come here and

talk. I assume you never had one, that explains all this

frustration.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Traditions Divine

 

 

 

 

 

Visit your group "" on the web.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

for Good

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[Guest guest]

yes I know that too. But slow and steady should be the aphorism.

*smile*

 

, "Arjuna Taranandanatha"

<bhagatirtha@m...> wrote:

> 93,

>

> Sri Sankara, U are right. But there is one more statement in the

> Scripture - "kula-sadhana must be opened" in kali-yuga. This was

the

> teaching of my kulacharya...

> In fact i expect U agree with this to some degree. Time has changed

> and now Devi changed old rules. As one kaula said, "Ocean of Kula

will

> flood the ocean of the worldly existance" (forgot the sanskrit

> original of this sutra, sorry)...

>

> Pranam,

> A.

>

> , sankara menon

<kochu1tz>

> wrote:

> >

> > Oh I forgot!! There is a Parashurama aphorism "Swa maatru

jaaravat

> gopyataaThou shalt keep it secret as thou would an illicit

> relationship of your mother".

[Guest guest]

93,

 

Maybe ENOUGH of baseless statements! Why do U speak bullshit about the

person whom U know not? Is it not stupid? Maybe he is a great siddha -

what for unnecessary aparadhas...

 

Alas, U have no mind to keep Ur tongue in control. Purge Ur dirty mind

first and then care about others.

 

A.

 

, "silentwatcher1947"

<silentwatcher1947> wrote:

>

>

> You seemed to be fooled by a fake guru into it and seems like you

> yourself had sex with your guru to gain .

>

>

> In , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> wrote:

>

> >

> > I am being told by my guru, in olden days, one of the ways of the

> > guru to teach the sisya esp the women abt some shakti sadhana

> > concepts is via sex. But that is olden days. Mind you my guru is not

> > some western initiate with this new age ideas. He/She is a

> > traditionalist and from India.

[Guest guest]

This is from another group which I read and thought it apt to share

here.....

Let me reproduce a passage from Osho's

'From Sex to Super-consciousness':

 

Quote

I, with same friends, had been to Khajuraho, to see the world-famous

temple. The outermost wall, the periphery of the temple is depicted

with pictures of sexual intercourse in various poses. There are

sculptures of different postures in the process of sexual

gratification. My friends inquired as to why those sculptures were

there. And around a temple? I told them that the architects who built

these temples were highly intelligent people. They believed that on

the outer circumference of life there was passion, sex, those who

were still entangled in Sex had no right to enter inside the temple.

 

We went in.

 

There was just an idol of God inside. My friends were surprised not

to see any statues of sex inside. I told them that on the outer wall

of life there is lust, passion, whereas the temple of God is inside.

Those who are still enchanted by passion, sex cannot reach the temple

of God inside; they are still roaming around the outer wall.

 

The makers of this temple were very sensible people. This was a

meditation centre. Sexuality is on the surface of all around,

placidity is in core, at the centre. They used to tell the aspirants

to meditate on sex, to reflect fully on copulations on the outside

wall first. When one had thoroughly understood it and was sure that

the mind was free from sex, then he may enter inside. Then one can

see God 'inside'.

 

Then only the world of Rama can emerge out of the world of Kama,

a world of compassion out of the world of passion!

Unquote

---

Rama R. Iyer

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Cathie,

 

Its ironical that most of us as children start off with pure and correct

approach to most things .. but as we grow up we seem to compound our gross ness

... mainly because of hurts, inconsistant values placed on us .. this compounded

with a lack of proper maturity/skills to deal with things objectively can

essentially lead you astray without proper guidance (inner or outer) ...

 

Although quite a number of young people do have the correct notions .. its very

easy for them to go astray without an anchor to latch on to .. that was the

point of view from which I was coming from .... From my point of view it is the

same thing I think also places importance on having a guru to latch onto till

the point where your own inner guru is not awakened ...

 

I totally agree that love cant exist both without disciplin as well as mutual

respect, these to me are totally based on the maturity a person has at any point

of his life and a willingness to learn and grow ... quite a number of adults I

have seen in my life are more stuck in their biases and immaturity, but again

that is also a phase they seem to undergo, most often the destination seems to

be the same .. life has its way of teaching same/similar lessons to all ...

 

The Father daughter relation you are taking of is a particular case of abuse ...

but then why shudnt there be genuine love as well?(Please do note that from

where i stand I cant digest such relations myself for now) ... what about father

and daughter relation where neither is aware of the existing relation (for

whatever reasons) as such and approach each other as adults in love? are we

saying in such cases such relations can be accepted?

Let me introduce a new point of view here: I essentially believe in non-duality

(as propounded by adi sankaracharya ... at the same time I believe in duality

till such a experience of non-duality manifests in a person) ... but when you

look at it from a non-duality point of view .. between two people .. who is

having sex with whome if everything is essential one and only one? if a person

does indeed realise this "experientially" (important word in this context - I

dont think "aham brahmasmi" renders a person brahman) then would any such

father/daughter relations have any significance in the act of sex or anything

else (assuming the person still decides to have sex from such a state) ..

 

I think its very essential to clearly identify the plane we are talking about

when we talk of sex or anything else .. because from each plane the issues to be

delt with are different and hence the rules and treatments will be different ...

some people end up exploiting this very difference, how do we know who is

exploiting and who is not?? that is a different question all together!

 

Thank you for your mail!

Surya.

 

SophiasRealm <SophiasRealm wrote:

, surya vishnu

<surya_prakashvi> wrote:

Can then beginners use sex for spirituality? They cant, because its

almost impossible for them to connect to the context where sex can

become sacred.

>

 

 

When I was young, I did not use sex for spirituality, but I did, as a

beginner, connect to the feelings that sex was sacred. I feel this

has mostly to do with conditioning. If a person has been conditioned

to feel that sex is not sacred but dirty, then it will be very hard

to overcome the conditioning and experience the sacred dimensions of

sexuality. But for others who are not conditioned that the body is

bad, such experiences will come naturally cuz they are a natural part

of sexuality. Assuming it is sexuality that is expressed with

love. And you raised an interesting question about love. I dont'

think a father who has sex with his daughter has love for that

daughter but lust. Love comes from respect and respect would not

violate the father-daughter bond and that is not love there is a word

for that and it is called incest and it stems from lust, not love.

Love is when you honor the other person and respect them as sacred.

No father who is having sex with his daughter is respecting her as

sacred he is using her to satisfy his lust.

 

By the same token, if a person is using you for sex and not

respecting you, and you are spiritually aware, you are not even going

to want to have sex with them, and in this instance, yes, please

avoid that kind of sex at all costs, cuz it will only pollute your

aura and put bad energy on you. It's serious. If somebody loves

you it means they respect you and respect also involves being aware

of the other person and knowing them and respecting their mind and

their soul. How many husbands respect their wives in this way?

Those who don't should not be using their wives to satisfy their lust.

 

My two cents,

Cathie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

sadhana or worshipping is like a physical procedure code book when we

have 'devotion' in our heart. devotion can be there with or without

rituals. but if there is no real devotion in heart , 'sadhana' will go

meaningless. like that "sex" is the code book when there is 'love' in

heart. and when there is no love in heart, sex will get degraded.

and then again, when we really 'love', it will be the same as

devotion. true love and devotion are one and the same. so.......the

rest is thinkable..........

 

 

 

, "SophiasRealm"

<SophiasRealm@a...> wrote:

> I recently met a student of Osho who asked me very sincerely if I