Sex and Sadhana - Sivananda

[Guest guest]

Hi Arjuna,

 

I wont comment on the sheer ridiculousness of the statement below other

than to say that Swami Sivananda was one of the greatest mahatmas to

walk on this earth.

 

A little tidbit of info for you: Swami Sivananda personally initiated

and instructed Swami Satyananda Paramahamsa into Tantra. Swami

Satyananda is well versed in tantra including Vamachara and initiates

only a few people.

 

So why did Sivananda prescribe brahmacharya for most - because most

people were sex addicts, so this was his way of telling that they must

develop self control.

 

Make no mistake - if you lack willpower to maintain celibacy at will,

then you are certainly not a Kaula, just an animal. The standard of

conduct for a Kaula is high, VERY FEW people meet those standards...

 

Kind regards,

-yogaman

 

 

, "Arjuna Taranandanatha"

<bhagatirtha@m...> wrote:

> 93,

>

> this exactly i was speaking about. Sivananda is a fool to be shunned.

> Harsh, but true... These are fools that men adore.

>

> "The word of Sin is restriction".

>

> True brahmacharya has nothing to do with keeping away from sex.

>

> A.

>

> , yoosh <yoosh_go> wrote:

> > from the book "Practice of Brahmacharya" by Sivananda:

[Guest guest]

, "childofdevi" <childofdevi

> So why did Sivananda prescribe brahmacharya for most - because most

> people were sex addicts, so this was his way of telling that they

must develop self control.

 

Once again, this kind of prescription is against dharma of Vedas and

smriti (i leave Tantras aside for Ur sake).

 

Thus he was preaching adharma - whatever "good" reasons given it

doesn't change the fact.

 

Krishna had said in Gita, that it is better to follow one's own dharma

imperfectly than to follow some other's perfectly. It is foolish for

grihasthi to take vows of sannyasi or conduct of brahmachari. This is

what healthy hinduism and any other normal religion teaches.

 

U see, people speculate around vedanta and gita etc, but simple and

clear teachings are left aside and their place is taken by strange

diversions...

 

A.

=====================================

MY DEAR ARJUNA!!

TANRA IS NO THE ONL PATH. THERE ARE OTHJER PATHS FOR WHI CELIBAC AND CONTROL ARE

PRE-REQUESITES. LETS NO DENIGRATE OTHER PATHS. JST SAY IN MY PATH THIS IS SO.

SARWA DHARMAANINDA IS ANOTHER APHISM OF PARASHURAMA. LETS FOLLOW THAT???

====================================================================

[Guest guest]

Ok, Kochu, i completely trust U. And thus i say sorry for calling him

a fool.

 

But the thing regarding contra-dharmic idea of celibacy for all is

still remaining. It's ok not to preach tantric way at every door LOL,

but it doesn't mean it's ok to push upon poor people such strict,

unnecessary and harmful restrictions. I really do not see any good

sense in that. If U do, i am eager to hear...

 

U know, in ISKCON the perverted idea of brahmacharya is also held. And

i know that because of it many families suffer like hell and love is

not there. These preachings aren't safe - they are destroying lifes of

people...

 

Pranam,

A.

 

, sankara menon <kochu1tz>

wrote:

[Guest guest]

> Thus he was preaching adharma - whatever "good" reasons given it

> doesn't change the fact.

 

 

Hi Arjuna,

 

Actually I feel that you are the one preaching adharma. Whatever

Sivananda said has a strong basis even from the tantras.

 

>

> Krishna had said in Gita, that it is better to follow one's own

dharma

> imperfectly than to follow some other's perfectly. It is foolish

for

> grihasthi to take vows of sannyasi or conduct of brahmachari. This

is

> what healthy hinduism and any other normal religion teaches.

 

 

This is actually what I find very funny. You slice a small portion of

some text, take it out of context and project it as the sole truth.

 

Following are excerpts from the Gita and said by Lord Krishna you

referenced above which contradicts two of your most held statements

1) It is NECESSARY to practice dispassion 2) that Yoga is not the BS

that you claim it is.

 

I dont claim to have any special knowledge; I will even say that I am

a somewhat deluded and lowly fellow and very much a pashu. I also

believe you are right now in the pashu state despite all your claims

to the contrary. Fortunately for both of us, there are some people

here at SS who can guide us and you can take advantage of that.

 

I hope you dont mind my frankness and have only your best interests

in mind. Happy navaratri to you and may SHE always bestow her grace

on you!!

 

My best wishes,

-yogaman

 

 

---------------------------

 

http://www.geocities.com/neovedanta/gita8.html

 

To this Lord Krishna responds, "O Arjuna, indeed the mind is very

difficult to bring under control. But with repeated practice (of

meditation and other spiritual disciplines) and by dispassion it is

possible to control the mind. Therefore, O Arjuna, remain unattached

to the outcome of your actions and try to focus the mind on ME."

 

he Yogi is superior to ascetic, jnani, and the person involved in

karma with motives; therefore, O Partha, you become a Yogi. (End of

chapter VI)

[Guest guest]

Hi Arjuna,

 

Once again refrainment from sex is advised more as means to conserve

vitality than for any moral reason. If you can conserve vitality,

there is no reason to refrain from sex even as per the yoga classics.

 

If you read the works of Swami Sivananda and Swami Satyananda, there

are numerous hints at the practice of vajroli. A sincere practitioner

can achieve success in vajroli based on these hints(nowhere else will

you find these hints). This is my gift to you :-).

 

It is for this reason why the Kularnava has stated that one has to

practice astanga yoga in the graveyard, prior to becoming a kaula.

Rather than taking it at face value, I think it means that certain

yogic practices are necessarily for many kaula rituals...

 

-yogaman

 

 

, "Arjuna Taranandanatha"

<bhagatirtha@m...> wrote:

> , "childofdevi"

<childofdevi

> > So why did Sivananda prescribe brahmacharya for most - because

most

> > people were sex addicts, so this was his way of telling that they

> must develop self control.

>

> Once again, this kind of prescription is against dharma of Vedas

and

> smriti (i leave Tantras aside for Ur sake).

>

> Thus he was preaching adharma - whatever "good" reasons given it

> doesn't change the fact.

>

> Krishna had said in Gita, that it is better to follow one's own

dharma

> imperfectly than to follow some other's perfectly. It is foolish

for

> grihasthi to take vows of sannyasi or conduct of brahmachari. This

is

> what healthy hinduism and any other normal religion teaches.

>

> U see, people speculate around vedanta and gita etc, but simple and

> clear teachings are left aside and their place is taken by strange

> diversions...

>

> A.

> =====================================

> MY DEAR ARJUNA!!

> TANRA IS NO THE ONL PATH. THERE ARE OTHJER PATHS FOR WHI CELIBAC

AND CONTROL ARE PRE-REQUESITES. LETS NO DENIGRATE OTHER PATHS. JST

SAY IN MY PATH THIS IS SO. SARWA DHARMAANINDA IS ANOTHER APHISM OF

PARASHURAMA. LETS FOLLOW THAT???

> ====================================================================

[Guest guest]

Swami Vivekananada on the ancient ideals of Hindusim of

BRAHMACHARYATaken from other site:

(http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2003/10-12/26-27_hanuman.shtml

) , that I feel is the biggest and the greatest of all ideals of

Hinduism though never understood and always misinterpreted . Though

the modern intellects and sadhaks in the world love to have new ideals

as Arjuna says that brahmacharya is out and have now completely

replaced Brahmacharya with the new age culture. Never the less a few

line of Swami Vivekananda on the once cherised ideal of Brahmacharya.

 

 

Swami Vivekananda states in his book, Raja Yoga, 'This ojas is stored

in the brain, and the more ojas there is in a man's head, the more

powerful he is, the more intellectual, the more spiritually strong.

One man may speak beautiful language and beautiful thoughts, but they

do not impress people; another man speaks neither beautiful language

nor beautiful thoughts, yet his words charm. Every movement of his is

powerful. That is the power of the ojas.'

 

"Swami Vivekananda said, 'By the observance of strict brahmacharya,

all learning can be mastered in a very short time. One has an

unfailing memory of what one hears or knows but once. It is owing to

this want of continence that everything is on the brink of ruin in our

country.'

 

"Brahmacharya also gives one the power to grasp and remember the

subtle truths imparted by the guru and the scriptures. People forget

spiritual teachings due to the lack of brahmacharya. Deep meditation

and higher spiritual states of consciousness cannot be achieved and

retained without brahmacharya. It is through the power of ojas that a

person attains God Realization.

 

"Those that practice brahmacharya see all females as Sita or the

manifestation of the Divine Mother. Women will consider all men to be

the images of Lord Rama. The practice of this insight will have

far-reaching effects on our domestic, social and spiritual lives."

 

--

Chastity in thought, word, and deed, always, and in all conditions, is

what is called Brahmacharya.

--

-------------------------------

The Katha Upanishad says, `That, seeking which a man practices

Brahmacharya, I will tell you in short what that is, that is Om.…This

is Brahman, the Immutable One, and is the highest; knowing this

Immutable One, whatever one desires one gets.'

 

, "Arjuna Taranandanatha"

<bhagatirtha@m...> wrote:

> Ok, Kochu, i completely trust U. And thus i say sorry for calling him

> a fool.

>

> But the thing regarding contra-dharmic idea of celibacy for all is

> still remaining. It's ok not to preach tantric way at every door LOL,

> but it doesn't mean it's ok to push upon poor people such strict,

> unnecessary and harmful restrictions. I really do not see any good

> sense in that. If U do, i am eager to hear...

>

> U know, in ISKCON the perverted idea of brahmacharya is also held. And

> i know that because of it many families suffer like hell and love is

> not there. These preachings aren't safe - they are destroying lifes of

> people...

>

> Pranam,

> A.

>

> , sankara menon <kochu1tz>

> wrote:

[Guest guest]

Right on Kochu, I second that.

 

RULE #1 - of SHAKTI SADHANA - WATCH THE VAK INDRIYA!

 

RULE #2 - NOT EVEN A FOOL WOULD NEVER, EVER, EVER, DENIGRATE MAHATMAS ANYWHERE,

ANYTIME, OR ANYPLACE.

 

Surely that is a great aparadha, especially during Navaratri, as we mere mortals

can never ever even speculate about such mahatmas.

 

My Master was great friends with Swamis Chidanandaji, Krishnanandaji (from

kerala), and many other of the Sivananda Ashram in Rishikesh. And i have met

and personally had darshan of many of them at that very place in Rishikesh.

Surely if they are great mahatmas their Master was even greater still.

 

On another note, although observing Navaratri to the best of my ability, and

still checking in here periodically, it is very easy to see who the serious

sadhaks are.

 

They are the ones NOT keeping up all this kind of mess with MAHATMA bashing and

nonsensical sex topics and such. Let me suggest to some, that they may be in

the wrong forum with all of the "cosmic sexual speculation" and such. That is

not SHAKTI SADHANA. That is some convoluted, misdirected WESTERN interpretation

from the 1960s free love era.

 

JAI MATA DI,

 

JANARDANA DASA

 

sankara menon <kochu1tz wrote:

Arjuna:

I disagree!! I had interacted with ; his successor Chidanandaji has stayed with

us in our house!! I know Krishnanadaji intimately. It is incorrect. His

PUBLISHED teachings were NOT for persons on THIS path. For tose on this path he

had oral teachings.

 

Never ever denigrate siddhas; at least not during teh Navaratri week at least

*smile*.

 

Arjuna Taranandanatha <bhagatirtha wrote:

93,

 

this exactly i was speaking about. Sivananda is a fool to be shunned.

Harsh, but true... These are fools that men adore.

 

"The word of Sin is restriction".

 

True brahmacharya has nothing to do with keeping away from sex.

 

A.

 

, yoosh <yoosh_go> wrote:

> from the book "Practice of Brahmacharya" by Sivananda:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Visit your group "" on the web.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

for Good

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[Guest guest]

93,

 

It is indeed funny! What i expressed is the teaching of ancient

Tantras, not a "new age" crap. Sri Abhinavagupta discussed true

brahmacharya in his Tantraloka - it was written in beginning of 11th

century! Where did Vivekananda live LOL?

 

There is nothing in Vedas and early Upanishads about sex-suppression

either. The whole idea of "brahmacharya" as celibacy is a

misconception. Some people having no proper diksha couldn't understand

the meaning of certain teachings and understood them too literally.

Along with this the niyamas of brahmacharins and sannyasins were put

upon grihasthas - which is a direct violation of Hindu dharma, common

sense and God's nature.

 

A.

 

, "devishakti_india"

<devishaktiindia@g...> wrote:

>

> Swami Vivekananada on the ancient ideals of Hindusim of

> BRAHMACHARYATaken from other site:

> (http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2003/10-12/26-27_hanuman.shtml

> ) , that I feel is the biggest and the greatest of all ideals of

> Hinduism though never understood and always misinterpreted . Though

> the modern intellects and sadhaks in the world love to have new ideals

> as Arjuna says that brahmacharya is out and have now completely

> replaced Brahmacharya with the new age culture. Never the less a few

> line of Swami Vivekananda on the once cherised ideal of Brahmacharya.

[Guest guest]

93,

 

U are totally free to think and follow whatever U'd like. I see no

point in arguing about my person LOL. What is important is the doctrine.

 

Regarding Bhagavad-gita - there are too many interpretations of it.

Some of them even political... I follow Kaula interpretation of

Abhinavagupta given in "Gitartha-sangraha".

 

Finally, U don't provide anything contra. Regardless of what Gita

means by dispassion etc, it doesn't teach obstaining from sex in

marriage - in any case . I gave the verse from Gita not because i

cannot find any other proof in Tantras LOL. I gave it only for the

reason that some people think Tantras are crap and Vedic dharma is

totally different.

 

A.

 

, "childofdevi"

<childofdevi> wrote:

>

> > Thus he was preaching adharma - whatever "good" reasons given it

> > doesn't change the fact.

>

>

> Hi Arjuna,

>

> Actually I feel that you are the one preaching adharma. Whatever

> Sivananda said has a strong basis even from the tantras.

>

>

> >

> > Krishna had said in Gita, that it is better to follow one's own

> dharma

> > imperfectly than to follow some other's perfectly. It is foolish

> for

> > grihasthi to take vows of sannyasi or conduct of brahmachari. This

> is

> > what healthy hinduism and any other normal religion teaches.

>

>

> This is actually what I find very funny. You slice a small portion of

> some text, take it out of context and project it as the sole truth.

>

> Following are excerpts from the Gita and said by Lord Krishna you

> referenced above which contradicts two of your most held statements

> 1) It is NECESSARY to practice dispassion 2) that Yoga is not the BS

> that you claim it is.

>

> I dont claim to have any special knowledge; I will even say that I am

> a somewhat deluded and lowly fellow and very much a pashu. I also

> believe you are right now in the pashu state despite all your claims

> to the contrary. Fortunately for both of us, there are some people

> here at SS who can guide us and you can take advantage of that.

>

> I hope you dont mind my frankness and have only your best interests

> in mind. Happy navaratri to you and may SHE always bestow her grace

> on you!!

>

> My best wishes,

> -yogaman

>

[Guest guest]

On 10/8/05, Arjuna Taranandanatha <bhagatirtha wrote:

 

It is indeed funny! What i expressed is the teaching of ancient Tantras,

not a "new age" crap. Sri Abhinavagupta discussed true brahmacharya in his

Tantraloka - it was written in beginning of 11thcentury! Where did

Vivekananda live LOL?

 

----------

SWAMI VIVEKANANDA ON TANTRAS WHEN SOMEONE ASKED A QUESTION :

(COMPLETE WORKS BOOK 7 )

 

I denounce only the present day corrupted form of Vamachara of the Tantras.

I do not denounce the Mother-worship of the Tantras, or even the real

Vamachara. The purport of the Tantras is to worship women in a spirit of

divinity. During the downfall of Buddhism, the Vamachara became corrupted

and that corrupted form obtains to the present day. Even now the literature

of India is influenced by those ideas. I denounonly those corrupt and

horrible practices. I never objected to the worship of women, who are living

embodiment of worship of women whose external manifestations, appealing to

the senses have maddened men, but those internal manifestations, such as

knowledge, devotion, discrimination and dispassion make a omniscient of

unfailing purpose, and a knower of Brahman-"Shesha prasanaa vardaa krunam

bhavati nuktay" – She, when pleased, becomes propitious and the cause of

freedom of man" ( Chandi 1.57). Without propitiating Mother by worship and

obeisance, not even Brahma and Vishnu have the power to elude Her grasp and

attain freedom,

--

Even in the 19th century Swami Vivekananda did speak on Tantras. lol

 

--

devishakti_india

( divyabhakti )