Guest guest Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Hi MaryAnn and Len, I had some responses to the share and to the responses...lol! but, seriously, I did have some thoughts about your story.... >>"Mary Ann, it is VERY unusual for a devotee to argue with the Guru, or the Guru's assistants. Amma is a Mahatma, she has certain psychic abilities. Do you think she would give you a mantra that was inappropriate? You seem to imply that the Swami was castigating you for being an "uppity woman," but I think a man who behaved similarly would have gotten similar harsh treatment."<<< ***This is an interesting question and, I think it raises alot more issues than just the ones we are talking about. If you want to receive a mantra from a guru, then there is a "relationship" that is part of the "bargain"...just as Len says, it is not the tradition to question the guru when the guru gives you something....best to take what is given, since she/he is in a position to see what you might need at this point...and, frequently it is not what we have our hearts set on (as I know ONLY too well, from personal experience).If the guru did not have this ability, why would we be wanting a mantra in the first place? On the other hand........I have been to alot of Amma's satsangs (including the very first one she held in a cafeteria in Cambridge, MA..first for that area anyway). There are some people around Amma who , to put it nicely, do not have Amma's level of attainment. Sometimes they are put into these very sensitive positions just for a nice "burn". So I don't really blame MaryAnne for questioning whether the translation was "correct"....but, afterwards, when given explicit and personalized instructions by the swami, it might have been wise to give it a try his way and see what happened when you did. > Imagine a swami instructing you with his > arms across his > chest, sneering. He said one of the words by kind of > spitting it out > as if there was something wrong with it: rupinyai. I > remember that I > was still in a magical place from receiving the > mantra, and I > offered to hug him, and he said no. We're dealing with different cultures here, Mary Ann! A swami has taken a vow of brahmacharya. He is not supposed to entertain sexual thoughts, or even to be alone with a woman for extended periods. To Westerners, a hug is a simple gesture of reassurance; to a celibate priest, it's an offer by a "kamini" ("lustful woman") to press her attractive body against his, and arouse all sorts of sexual thoughts! ****Again, I agree with Len...it is very very very unusual for a swami to touch anyone much less a woman ! Plus, Amma is from South India and, in my experience, the mantra pronunciation from this area can sound somewhat harsh, just as the Sanskrit chanting is quite different from that in Bombay or Benares. You may have been projecting onto the swami...I don't mean to be insulting in any way...please don't misunderstand but, sometimes, when we are taken out of ourselves by strong emotion (such as you described having when you received the mantra from Amma), we are very sensitive and can see things that might not even be there...(again, I have experienced this personally, so it's not like I am speaking from some height of attainment). > I do not know what he found > offensive about the mantra. I think he found your behavior offensive (i.e., protesting at the original mantra Amma gave you), not the mantra per se. If you had asked for a mantra for "Ardhanarishvara" -- one deity (even though containing two), perhaps you wouldn't have gotten the hassle. Of course, if you had asked for "ArdhanarESHvarI" (the last vowels indicating that this is the androgyne with Shakti to the RIGHT side), there might have been similar quibbles... ****the other thing to consider that might be helpful is that Amma would certainly not be giving you some "flawed" mantra that her swami would find "offensive" and she wouldn't give you a "hidden Tantric mantra"...if you were not a close disciple and ready for it....or give you something that wasn't "good" for you. You simply cannot "coerce" a guru into giving you something that the guru does not wish to give and, if the guru is genuine, the guru must give what god wishes him/her to give to the person kneeeling in front of him/her..If, as Len says, the swami found your behavior so "offensive" that he had to let you know, then perhaps he needs to think about his reaction...alot of times, people are put in positions dealing with the public when they really need to learn how to not be quite so judgemental. Swamis are only human...many still working on their sadhana. best regards to you, sadhvi > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Certain swamis are not above indulging in personal fits of anger, from what I have observed. As for "kamini," if he behaved in a threatened and blaming way to what i do believe is a cultural difference -- the offer of a hug as a peacemaking gesture -- there are other ways of responding. Humor, for example, or smilingly explaining that bramacharis don't do that. Isn't bramacharya, at its deepest root, about detachment, after all? Max >You may have been projecting onto the swami...I don't mean to be >insulting in any way...please don't misunderstand but, sometimes, >when we are taken out of ourselves by strong emotion -- Max Dashu Suppressed Histories Archives Global Women's History http://www.suppressedhistories.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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