UK Protest: X-mas Stamp Depicts Hindus Worshopping Baby Jesus....Withdrawn

[Guest guest]

The 68 pence postage stamp depicting a Hindu couple worshipping baby

Jesus has now been withdrawn by the Royal Mail. They accepted that it

depicted something that went against the belief and sentiments of the

majority of the members of the Hindu faith.

 

 

 

 

 

 

, sankara menon <kochu1tz>

wrote:

>

> So?? who will start the ball rolling??

>

> Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote:I don't think it's nasty at

all. I think it could be done in the spirit of unity, as well as in

good humor, in keeping with general religious lightheartedness (!). I

liked the design ideas and I hope some members out there have the

ability to create such designs.

>

> , sankara menon <kochu1tz>

> wrote:

> >

> > and lets offerit in SS Cybershoppe at cyber cafe (I am nasty

> eh?)

> >

> > Janardana Dasa <lightdweller> wrote:Kochu, I'm in. Brilliant

> idea. Maybe these stamps can be ordered and personalized showing

> Christian Fathers and friars worshiping Lord Sri Krishna, Devi &

> Lord Shiva to get the point across. They can also be ordered in USA

> like that, as we also have the same thing here too at post offices.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Traditions

>

>

>

>

>

> Visit your group "" on the web.

>

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

One of the many news articles on the withdrawal:

 

Royal Mail withdraws stamp with Hindu images

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13979080

 

Monday, 07 November , 2005, 20:20

 

London: Britain's Royal Mail has decided not to further print a

Christmas stamp depicting Virgin Mary with traditional Hindu

markings like tilak and will ask its branches not to sell the

existing ones unless specifically requested, following

complaints by the Hindu community in the country.

 

The Royal Mail, a public limited company, will not carry out a

second print run of the stamp, Joanne Davis, External Relations

Manager of the company, said on Monday.

 

"Following a conversation between Barry Gardiner, Minister

for Competitiveness, and the Royal Mail, the company has

agreed to revise the arrangements for its special issue of 68

pence Christmas stamp," the company said in a statement

 

It once again apologised for "any unintentional offence" caused

to the Hindu community by the images portrayed in the 17th

century painting featured on the Christmas stamp.

 

"The company will now tell Post Office branches not to issue

the 68 pence Christmas stamp to customers unless specifically

requested. Royal Mail will not carry out a second print run of

the stamp. Current stocks will be exhausted in two to three

days."

 

Royal Mail has also said that it would review its procedures to

ensure that future images are appropriately screened to avoid

unintentional offence to any community in the UK.

[edited for brevity]

[Guest guest]

Now I'm curious to see the stamp! Original

description said that there were WORSHIPPERS in Hindu

garb and tilak bowing to Mary and baby J.C. Now they

talk about the BVM in Hindu markings, no presence

particularly of worshippers. Can't we all just get

along?

 

-- Len

 

 

--- msbauju <msbauju wrote:

> One of the many news articles on the withdrawal:

>

> Royal Mail withdraws stamp with Hindu images

> http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13979080

>

> Monday, 07 November , 2005, 20:20

>

> London: Britain's Royal Mail has decided not to

> further print a

> Christmas stamp depicting Virgin Mary with

> traditional Hindu

> markings like tilak and will ask its branches not to

> sell the

> existing ones unless specifically requested,

> following

> complaints by the Hindu community in the country.

>

> The Royal Mail, a public limited company, will not

> carry out a

> second print run of the stamp, Joanne Davis,

> External Relations

> Manager of the company, said on Monday.

>

> "Following a conversation between Barry Gardiner,

> Minister

> for Competitiveness, and the Royal Mail, the company

> has

> agreed to revise the arrangements for its special

> issue of 68

> pence Christmas stamp," the company said in a

> statement

>

> It once again apologised for "any unintentional

> offence" caused

> to the Hindu community by the images portrayed in

> the 17th

> century painting featured on the Christmas stamp.

>

> "The company will now tell Post Office branches not

> to issue

> the 68 pence Christmas stamp to customers unless

> specifically

> requested. Royal Mail will not carry out a second

> print run of

> the stamp. Current stocks will be exhausted in two

> to three

> days."

>

> Royal Mail has also said that it would review its

> procedures to

> ensure that future images are appropriately screened

> to avoid

> unintentional offence to any community in the UK.

> [edited for brevity]

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

 

[Guest guest]

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?

catId=16300346&mediaId=22600462

 

The stamp is a bit down the page.

 

, Len Rosenberg

<kalipadma108> wrote:

>

>

> Now I'm curious to see the stamp! Original

> description said that there were WORSHIPPERS in Hindu

> garb and tilak bowing to Mary and baby J.C. Now they

> talk about the BVM in Hindu markings, no presence

> particularly of worshippers. Can't we all just get

> along?

>

> -- Len

>

>

> Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this. The image is kind of small, can't

make out details. There seem to be three faces on the

Indian-based stamp: baby Jesus, Saint Joseph, and

Mother Mary? Joseph and Mary appear to have a red

bindu painted on their foreheads, but nothing linking

them to Vaishnava traditions. There's something to

the left that looks like a profile of another face --

perhaps one of the three Kings? but it doesn't appear

integral to the stamp. None of the figures appears to

be Hindu -- these are the usual Nativity figures,

presented in Indian dress.

 

I can't imagine anybody buying this stamp who isn't

him/herself Christian. And I assume they would send

it to Christian Indians. Just interesting that the

postage denomination lends itself to mail being sent

to India...

 

I wonder if any of the Australian Aborigines, or

Native Americans, whose "Madonnas" were also used,

also protested?

 

-- Len

 

 

--- ganpra <ganpra wrote:

> http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?

> catId=16300346&mediaId=22600462

>

> The stamp is a bit down the page.

>

> , Len Rosenberg

>

> <kalipadma108> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Now I'm curious to see the stamp! Original

> > description said that there were WORSHIPPERS in

> Hindu

> > garb and tilak bowing to Mary and baby J.C. Now

> they

> > talk about the BVM in Hindu markings, no presence

> > particularly of worshippers. Can't we all just

> get

> > along?

> >

> > -- Len

> >

> >

> > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

 

[Guest guest]

we Indian Hindus protest because we are fed up with being used as doormats

 

 

Len Rosenberg <kalipadma108 wrote:

 

Thanks for this. The image is kind of small, can't

make out details. There seem to be three faces on the

Indian-based stamp: baby Jesus, Saint Joseph, and

Mother Mary? Joseph and Mary appear to have a red

bindu painted on their foreheads, but nothing linking

them to Vaishnava traditions. There's something to

the left that looks like a profile of another face --

perhaps one of the three Kings? but it doesn't appear

integral to the stamp. None of the figures appears to

be Hindu -- these are the usual Nativity figures,

presented in Indian dress.

 

I can't imagine anybody buying this stamp who isn't

him/herself Christian. And I assume they would send

it to Christian Indians. Just interesting that the

postage denomination lends itself to mail being sent

to India...

 

I wonder if any of the Australian Aborigines, or

Native Americans, whose "Madonnas" were also used,

also protested?

 

-- Len

 

 

--- ganpra <ganpra wrote:

> http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?

> catId=16300346&mediaId=22600462

>

> The stamp is a bit down the page.

>

> , Len Rosenberg

>

> <kalipadma108> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Now I'm curious to see the stamp! Original

> > description said that there were WORSHIPPERS in

> Hindu

> > garb and tilak bowing to Mary and baby J.C. Now

> they

> > talk about the BVM in Hindu markings, no presence

> > particularly of worshippers. Can't we all just

> get

> > along?

> >

> > -- Len

> >

> >

> > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

 

 

 

 

Traditions Divine Divine

 

 

 

 

 

Visit your group "" on the web.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

 

 

[Guest guest]

May be the aborigines did not protest because they have more

pressing issues like social equality to be attained. Wikipedia says

that the total population of aborigines is around half million

people. Awareness of such a population to the stamp is also

questionable.

 

American Indians (again from Wikipedia) have somewhat effectively

merged their own religion with Catholicsm. Hence, they might not

feel that much about their "Madonna with infant." Being an American,

you might know better about the facts than I.

 

In either of the above cases, they live in countries where the major

religion is Christianity and may be more used to such depictions of

integrating native cultures with Christianity. In Haiti,

Christianity is the major religion (96%) with voodoo (~50%) -

probably bi-religious.

 

On the other hand, in India, Christianity is a minor religion (~2%).

It is still felt as a religion imposed by the British Rulers, by

majority of Hindus. Of course, Hindus make around 80% of around 1

billion strong population in India. Statistically speaking,

immigrants from India will also be more of Hindu lineage than other

religions. The immigrants also do not compromise on their faith.

 

Hope this helps to get an idea. May be better articulate members

might explain it further.

 

On a lighter note, it seems that a Brit who still thinks Sun never

sets on their kingdom (US, Oz, Europe), woke up one fine morning and

came up with the idea. :-)

 

, sankara menon <kochu1tz>

wrote:

>

> we Indian Hindus protest because we are fed up with being used as

doormats

>

>

> Len Rosenberg <kalipadma108> wrote:

>

> I wonder if any of the Australian Aborigines, or

> Native Americans, whose "Madonnas" were also used,

> also protested?

>

> -- Len

[Guest guest]

Tru That.

 

Janardana Das

 

ganpra <ganpra wrote:

May be the aborigines did not protest because they have more

pressing issues like social equality to be attained. Wikipedia says

that the total population of aborigines is around half million

people. Awareness of such a population to the stamp is also

questionable.

 

American Indians (again from Wikipedia) have somewhat effectively

merged their own religion with Catholicsm. Hence, they might not

feel that much about their "Madonna with infant." Being an American,

you might know better about the facts than I.

 

In either of the above cases, they live in countries where the major

religion is Christianity and may be more used to such depictions of

integrating native cultures with Christianity. In Haiti,

Christianity is the major religion (96%) with voodoo (~50%) -

probably bi-religious.

 

On the other hand, in India, Christianity is a minor religion (~2%).

It is still felt as a religion imposed by the British Rulers, by

majority of Hindus. Of course, Hindus make around 80% of around 1

billion strong population in India. Statistically speaking,

immigrants from India will also be more of Hindu lineage than other

religions. The immigrants also do not compromise on their faith.

 

Hope this helps to get an idea. May be better articulate members

might explain it further.

 

On a lighter note, it seems that a Brit who still thinks Sun never

sets on their kingdom (US, Oz, Europe), woke up one fine morning and

came up with the idea. :-)

 

, sankara menon <kochu1tz>

wrote:

>

> we Indian Hindus protest because we are fed up with being used as

doormats

>

>

> Len Rosenberg <kalipadma108> wrote:

>

> I wonder if any of the Australian Aborigines, or

> Native Americans, whose "Madonnas" were also used,

> also protested?

>

> -- Len

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Devi Traditions Divine

 

 

 

 

 

Visit your group "" on the web.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Len comments below.

 

--- ganpra <ganpra wrote:

> May be the aborigines did not protest because they

> have more

> pressing issues like social equality to be attained.

> Wikipedia says

> that the total population of aborigines is around

> half million

> people. Awareness of such a population to the stamp

> is also

> questionable.

 

But I think the stamp with the Aboriginal art is the

highest price, probably designed to use for mail from

Britain to Australia?

 

> American Indians (again from Wikipedia) have

> somewhat effectively

> merged their own religion with Catholicsm. Hence,

> they might not

> feel that much about their "Madonna with infant."

> Being an American,

> you might know better about the facts than I.

 

The two or three "full blood" Native Americans I'm

friendly with are all speakers on various New Age

circuits (as I sometimes am!). So they talk about

Native traditions, and like to work with Native

rituals and religions. Not necessarily typical. Many

more friends have "some Indian blood" -- and I note

that most of them ARE observant Catholics.

 

> In either of the above cases, they live in countries

> where the major

> religion is Christianity and may be more used to

> such depictions of

> integrating native cultures with Christianity. In

> Haiti,

> Christianity is the major religion (96%) with voodoo

> (~50%) -

> probably bi-religious.

>

> On the other hand, in India, Christianity is a minor

> religion (~2%).

> It is still felt as a religion imposed by the

> British Rulers, by

> majority of Hindus. Of course, Hindus make around

> 80% of around 1

> billion strong population in India. Statistically

> speaking,

> immigrants from India will also be more of Hindu

> lineage than other

> religions. The immigrants also do not compromise on

> their faith.

 

Point made! Thank you.

 

-- Len

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

 

[Guest guest]

my comments below:

 

, Len Rosenberg

<kalipadma108> wrote:

>

>

> Thanks for this. The image is kind of small, can't

> make out details. There seem to be three faces on the

> Indian-based stamp: baby Jesus, Saint Joseph, and

> Mother Mary? Joseph and Mary appear to have a red

> bindu painted on their foreheads, but nothing linking

> them to Vaishnava traditions. There's something to

> the left that looks like a profile of another face --

> perhaps one of the three Kings? but it doesn't appear

> integral to the stamp. None of the figures appears to

> be Hindu -- these are the usual Nativity figures,

> presented in Indian dress.

 

 

You are assuming that it is Mary and Joseph because you can't see

since the image is too small. It is a Hindu couple. Vaishnav, Shakta

or otherwise.

 

The profile is that of the Queen. That is on every Royal Mail stamp

 

The couple don't "appear" to be Hindu or otherwise. They are clearly

depicted as Hindu. I am one, I am in the UK and I have this stamp.

There is a difference between Indian dress and depiction as a member

of a Religion, in this case Hinduism.

 

>

> I can't imagine anybody buying this stamp who isn't

> him/herself Christian. And I assume they would send

> it to Christian Indians. Just interesting that the

> postage denomination lends itself to mail being sent

> to India...

 

 

If you are in the UK and the mail you wish to sent will cost you

68pence, then irrespective of your religion, or that of the receipient

of your mail, you have no CHOICE but to buy this stamp.

 

Unless you wish to make up the sum of 68p using various other

denominations and why should one do that?

 

As for the denomination lending itself to mail being sent to

India...well..personally I think that it was just a dumb mistake on

the part of the Royal Mail ) Within the UK here during the Christmas

period there are PLENTY of cards that will be posted within the UK and

other countries which will require a 68p stamp.

 

....unless some closet missionary thought that they would "get away

with spreading the messege" but then I have never had paranoid

tendencies so...lol

 

> I wonder if any of the Australian Aborigines, or

> Native Americans, whose "Madonnas" were also used,

> also protested?

 

 

 

>

> -- Len

>

>

> --- ganpra <ganpra@r...> wrote:

>

> > http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?

> > catId=16300346&mediaId=22600462

> >

> > The stamp is a bit down the page.

> >

> > , Len Rosenberg

> >

> > <kalipadma108> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Now I'm curious to see the stamp! Original

> > > description said that there were WORSHIPPERS in

> > Hindu

> > > garb and tilak bowing to Mary and baby J.C. Now

> > they

> > > talk about the BVM in Hindu markings, no presence

> > > particularly of worshippers. Can't we all just

> > get

> > > along?

> > >

> > > -- Len

> > >

> > >

> > > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

>

>

[Guest guest]

Okay, you've driven me to resort to a magnifying

glass! (I feel like gawddam Sherlock Holmes...) The

Hindu-dressed couple appear to be HOLDING baby Jesus

on their (his, Joseph's) lap! This implies, if they

are mere Indian Hindus, that the baby Savior has a

"special relationship" with Indians, no? (Jerry

Falwell will be SO jealous!) I still think they are a

Jewish couple, Saints Yussef and Miriam, wearing kurta

and kumkum.

 

The Queen's sillhouette is in the upper right corner,

like every stamp. There is a profile of a face to the

LEFT. I think it's a Wise Man (a Rishi?), or a

shepherd, or an angel, or someone else who IS

worshipping. But the main couple definitely appear to

be Jesus's parental units.

 

It's laughable, as Ganpra said, that whoever conceived

of this series of stamps still hasn't given up on the

idea of a British Empire. (There still IS a British

Commonwealth, isn't there?) It's significant that no

stamp was made showing IRISH portaits of the "Holy

Family" -- the Irish want their northern counties

back, and make the most annoying of Indian protesters

look like pussycats.

 

I pick the sorts of stamps I use, here in the States.

I wouldn't buy a stamp that expresses an opinion I

don't share. I NEVER buy "Christmas stamps," nor

"Hannukah stamps." (I don't send Christmas cards,

either! An occasional YULE card, perhaps, with

Neo-Pagan theme.) With Dubya 's fiasco in Iraq, I'm

tempted to avoid stamps with American flags on 'em,

too. And if I were efficient, I'd white-out the

phrase "In God we trust" from my currency (or change

"God" to "Mammon!").

 

Why argue? The stamp has been withdrawn. I just hope

some consciousness-raising has taken place, and people

aren't grumbling about gawddam Indians spoiling all

the Brits' fun.

 

-- Len

 

 

--- her_asha <her_asha wrote:

> my comments below:

>

> , Len Rosenberg

> <kalipadma108> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Thanks for this. The image is kind of small,

> can't

> > make out details. There seem to be three faces on

> the

> > Indian-based stamp: baby Jesus, Saint Joseph, and

> > Mother Mary? Joseph and Mary appear to have a red

> > bindu painted on their foreheads, but nothing

> linking

> > them to Vaishnava traditions. There's something

> to

> > the left that looks like a profile of another face

> --

> > perhaps one of the three Kings? but it doesn't

> appear

> > integral to the stamp. None of the figures

> appears to

> > be Hindu -- these are the usual Nativity figures,

> > presented in Indian dress.

>

>

> You are assuming that it is Mary and Joseph because

> you can't see

> since the image is too small. It is a Hindu couple.

> Vaishnav, Shakta

> or otherwise.

>

> The profile is that of the Queen. That is on every

> Royal Mail stamp

>

> The couple don't "appear" to be Hindu or otherwise.

> They are clearly

> depicted as Hindu. I am one, I am in the UK and I

> have this stamp.

> There is a difference between Indian dress and

> depiction as a member

> of a Religion, in this case Hinduism.

>

>

> >

> > I can't imagine anybody buying this stamp who

> isn't

> > him/herself Christian. And I assume they would

> send

> > it to Christian Indians. Just interesting that

> the

> > postage denomination lends itself to mail being

> sent

> > to India...

>

>

> If you are in the UK and the mail you wish to sent

> will cost you

> 68pence, then irrespective of your religion, or that

> of the receipient

> of your mail, you have no CHOICE but to buy this

> stamp.

>

> Unless you wish to make up the sum of 68p using

> various other

> denominations and why should one do that?

>

> As for the denomination lending itself to mail being

> sent to

> India...well..personally I think that it was just a

> dumb mistake on

> the part of the Royal Mail ) Within the UK here

> during the Christmas

> period there are PLENTY of cards that will be posted

> within the UK and

> other countries which will require a 68p stamp.

>

> ...unless some closet missionary thought that they

> would "get away

> with spreading the messege" but then I have never

> had paranoid

> tendencies so...lol

>

 

 

 

 

FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.

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