importance of and character of satvic worship

November 10, 2005

Kamah Krodho lobha dambhady asuya

ahamkar ersya matsaradyastu ghorah

dharma ete rajasah pumpravrttih

yasmad esa tad rajo bandha hetuh (Vivekachudamani - 112)

The properties of rajas are desire for enjoyment, anger, greed,

pride, envy, egotism and jealousy.

prajnavan api pandito api caturo apy atyanta suksm artha drgvyalidhas

tamasa na vetti bahudha sambodhito api sphutam

bhranty aropitam eva sadhu kalayaty alambate tadgunan hanta asau

prabala duranta tamasa saktir mahaty avrtih (Vivekachudamani-114)

what a tremendous power this tamas has ! even he who has

knowledge of the atman , who is versed in the scriptures , very,

intelligent, who has very keen insight-even such a person, engrossed

in tamas - cannot understand the atman even when explained in many

diffrent ways, but he takes the attribute of maya as the atman.

Misrasya sattvasya bhavanti dharmastv amanitadya niyama yamadyha

sraddha ca bhaktis ca mumuksuta ca daiva ca sampattir asan nivrttih.

(Vivekachudamani-118)

sattva becomes mixed with rajas and tamas and the traits of

mixed sattva are as follows - declining to take anything upon oneself

[absence of pride], denail of things [yamas] observence of niyanas

[purification, mortification, study, contentment, and worship of

god],control; of organs, faith, devotion, desire for liberation, a

divine nature, and cessation from things that are not good for self

purification, harmlessness, truthfulness, freedim from greed,

continence, and absense of acquisitiveness.

Now the qualities and nature of three gunas

are described by acharya shankara and also the greatest of srividya

upasaka. A good matured and discrimating mind can know which of these

gunas helps for the knowledge of brahman. so one should always stick

to sattvic form of sadhana as the final solution of each upasana is

liberation. The use of meats, liquior, sex, in worship will not help

the sadaka for higher stages. As most them do only navavarna puja

miss out the final avarna called parabrahma chakra (srividyarnava

tantra)which is nirguna upasana which can be attained only through

sattvic worship. Acharya shankara never used of meat, fish or sex in

his devi upasana . some have quoted that without the use this items

devi is not pleased ,i kindly request them to read the 992 name in

sri lalitha sahasranama (avyaja-karuna-murtaye) unconditional grace.

Mother never expects anything from her child other than being in her

presence. ambal is beyond sex only for the sake of mind, she is given

feminine aspect.silly reasoning cannot make one free from their inner

lust, anger, pride, etc. (note: Only to the knowledge that amba has

given to me.)

OM TAT SAT

November 10, 2005

YOU WROTE:

Kamah Krodho lobha dambhadyasuya

ahamkarersya matsaradyastu ghorah

dharma ete rajasah pumpravrttih

yasmad esa tadrajo bandha hetuh (Vivekachudamani - 112)

The properties of rajas are desire for enjoyment, anger, greed,

pride, envy, egotism and jealousy.

MY REPLY:

But why stop the translation there? Should not the full translation

be, ¡§Desire for enjoyment, anger, greed, pride, envy, egotism and

jealousy are the attributes of rajasic human behavior (rajasaH

pumpravarttiH). Such Rajas, with these qualities, is a cause of

bondage.

In a SriVidya Upasana, by contrast, Rajas is an ornament ¡V for he or

she is verily Devi Herself. The Upasaka does not crave for these

things and rarely succumbs to them. Devi is trigunakaari and

trigunaatheetha. A real Srividyopasaka is Devi Herself with all of

Her attributes ¡V which include the satwarajasthamo gunas. He is

verily Her! For the Srividyopasaka, this rajo guna is not a cause of

bondage for he or she IS the guna and is at the same time above it.

Similarly, it must be remembered that ¡V for a true Srividyopasaka ¡V

there is no right and wrong, and he or she accumulates no Karma

Bandhas. This Shloka is intended for those who are outside the

Srividya stream ¡V so, in fact, this quote has no relevance to the

question in issue.

*******

YOU WROTE:

prajnavan api pandito api caturo apyatyanta suksmartha drgvyalidhas

tamasa na vetti bahudha sambodhito api sphutam

bhrantyaaropitam eva sadhu kalayatyalambate tadgunan hanta asau

prabala duranta tamasa saktir mahatyavrtih (Vivekachudamani-114)

what a tremendous power this tamas has! even he who has knowledge of

the atman , who is versed in the scriptures , very, intelligent, who

has very keen insight-even such a person, engrossed in tamas -

cannot understand the atman even when explained in many different

ways, but he takes the attribute of Maya as the atman.

MY REPLY:

Again, this is true indeed ¡V for a non-Srividyopasaka! However, a

real Srividyopasaka is also the very Tamas, so he or she is not

affected by it. What I said above of the Rajo Guna holds good here

as well.

*****

YOU WROTE:

Misrasya sattvasya bhavanti dharmastv amanitadya niyama yamadyha

sraddha ca bhaktisca mumuksuta ca daiva ca sampattir asannivrttih.

(Vivekachudamani-118)

sattva becomes mixed with rajas and tamas and the traits of mixed

sattva are as follows - declining to take anything upon oneself

[absence of pride], denial of things [yamas] observance of niyamas

[purification, mortification, study, contentment, and worship of

god],control; of organs, faith, devotion, desire for liberation, a

divine nature, and cessation from things that are not good for self

purification, harmlessness, truthfulness, freedom from greed,

continence, and absence of acquisitiveness.

MY REPLY:

Again I stress, when you wrote the Vivekachoodamani, to whom were

you addressing it? The Srividyopasaka who has attained the status

after doing upasana for aeons, or those who are not yet there? You

will know better.

A Srividyopasaka rises above the duality of good and bad; papa and

punya and right and wrong. For him or her everything is the same.

He/she acts when he/she feels like it and does not act if he/she

does not feel like it. That¡¦s why it is said, ¡§Jaanaami dharmam na

ca me pravartti; jaanaamyadharmam na ca me nivartti ena kenaapi

hrudistitena devena yadhaa niyuktosmi thadhaa karomi¡¨: I know what

is right and wrong and I act according to my conscience.

YOU WROTE:

Now the qualities and nature of three gunas are described by acharya

Shankara and also the greatest of Srividya Upasaka. A good matured

and discriminating mind can know which of these

gunas helps for the knowledge of Brahman. So one should always stick

to sattvic form of sadhana as the final solution of each upasana is

liberation. The use of meats, liquior, sex, in worship will not help

the sadaka for higher stages. As most them do only navavarna puja

miss out the final avarna called parabrahma chakra (srividyarnava

tantra) which is nirguna upasana which can be attained only through

sattvic worship. Acharya shankara never used of meat, fish or sex in

his devi upasana . some have quoted that without the use this items

devi is not pleased, i kindly request them to read the 992 name in

Sri Lalitha sahasranama (avyaja-karuna-murtaye) unconditional grace.

Mother never expects anything from her child other than being in her

presence. Ambaal is beyond sex only for the sake of mind, she is

given feminine aspect. Silly reasoning cannot make one free from

their inner lust, anger, pride, etc. (note: Only to the knowledge

that amba has given to me.)

OM TAT SAT

MY REPLY:

I bow to the great Sankara Bhattapaada. He did write various

treatises targeting various audiences. He wrote the Bhaja Govindam ¡V

a purely dualistic hymn (after extolling advaita to the fullest) for

one audience. And he wrote the Vivekachoodaamni for another; and the

Saundraya Lahari for still another, etc. At least that is how I have

understood it. Mixing and matching them is like taking a tenth-grade

school book to explain the Theory of Relativity. It will be neither

here nor there. I have not seen one text in which Bhagavatpaada said

Kulopaasana is wrong. In fact, many of his texts extol it.

Have you looked at other names extolling KulAchara in LS?? I am not

an expert, still I will try. Kaulini, Kulayogini; so she is not only

a kulAchara practitioner but also a yogini in that;

rahoyaagakramaaraadhyaa; rahastarpana tarpitaa. There are many more.

By the way, what is saatwikopasana? I do not know any upasana that

is purely satwik.

Pray, are you saying that the thousands of Shaktas from the likes of

Krishna leading up to Bhaskara Raya and others down to many great

Upasakas now living are all fools and without ¡§good matured and

discriminating mind¡¨??

Is the statement, ¡§The use of meats, liquior, sex, in worship will

not help the sAdhaka for higher stages¡¨ your own personal belief?

Then, as I said earlier (and considerably more briefly) that is your

cup of tea. You may follow it, and may Devi bless your earnest

efforts.

But how is it that you assume other people are missing out on

anything? I will not speak much on the avaranas or other

technicalities, for, my knowledge is limited. That which is

necessary, will be taught by one¡¦s Guru. The Shishya will follow

that. So let us not discuss that issue. There is a sammelana yantra;

because it is not spoken of openly, does that mean there is no one

who does its sadhana? How many are capable of Nirgunopasana, except

for parroting shlokas and mantras? That¡¦s not upasana, nirguna or

saguna. Nirgunopasana comes at the end of sagunopasana, when SIDDHI

is attained by sagunopasana.

At the higher reaches no aadhara (tools) are needed. By the time one

reaches that stage, milk can become wine and vice versa. Fish will

become ginger and vice versa. Meat will become maasha and vice

versa. But tell me, why are maasha, milk, etc, called ¡§pratheekas,¡¨

or substitutes? The implied question is, substitutes for what?

Substitute envisages a real McCoy somewhere, does it not? So anybody

with common sense will know using the real thing is better than

substituting with other items. The very idea of substitution itself

envisages inferiority of some sort. And where is the sanction for

that? The governing idea is, ¡§In a situation where you cannot use

the real McCoy, use a substitute.¡¨ That¡¦s allowed. But the whole

point of substitution is that, for whatever reason, one ¡§cannot use

the real McCoy.¡¨

You say, ¡§Acharya Shankara never used of meat, fish or sex in his

devi upasana.¡¨ Is that so? Well, perhaps you are in a better

position than the rest of us poor mortals to assert that. I cannot

say, because by the time I was born he was not available to instruct

me. However, he did leave some pointers. For example:

Saundarya Lahari „» ChatubhiH shrIkanThaiH¡K..

Mukham Bindum krutwaa¡K.

Naram varShIyaamsam etc.

Since the books are not with me I cannot quote in extenso.

But let me add this: If you believe that SUBSTITUTION is the way to

go, then by all means follow it. None will condemn you. But know

that there are some people here who are pure Kaulas ¡V even with

yajnopavita; and, no matter what you say, they will not change, for

they have their Gurwaadesha. Guru¡¦s directions take precedence over

everything else, even instructions from an exalted fellow such as

yourself. If your Guru says this is not for you, then that is IT. We

will not try to change you. Nor will we say it is wrong. In return,

we ask only that you kindly show us the same respect. For as I said

before ¡§To each according to his stage of development and taste.¡¨

Maybe we are less developed. If it makes you feel better to think

so, then enjoy your perception of superiority and leave it at that.

Why not live and let live and forget behaving like an evangelist?

, "shankara_bhagavatpada"

<shankara_bhagavatpada> wrote:

>

> Kamah Krodho lobha dambhady asuya

> ahamkar ersya matsaradyastu ghorah

> dharma ete rajasah pumpravrttih

> yasmad esa tad rajo bandha hetuh (Vivekachudamani - 112)

> **********************************************

November 10, 2005

I apologize if I come off irreverant, but, would like to highlight a

few points of interest (to me).

1. Please do not say that Adi Shankara is the greatest of SVU's. The

first & foremost and no doubt the Greatest SVU is Shiva, followed by

KAma, Kubera and others. Adi Shankara is a great SVU - but his

practices are beyond understanding owing to my ignorance. So are the

practices of Bhaskaracharya and others.

2. In either samyAchara or vAmachara, the final stage of realizing

brahman - comprising of both saguna (Shakthi) and Nirguna (Shiva)is

beyond both (and all) paths. In Sri Vidya Upasana, it so seems that

the SVU's worship only Saguna Brahman - because they worship only

HER. At later stages, SVU's worship the Bindhu, which represents the

confluence of Nirguna and Saguna brahman(s). Still if a SVU

meditates on the confluence alone, they will never rise above Maya

to realize brahman. At that stage it is HER will/wish which makes

one realize brahman. None of the above mentioned practices matter.

This is what KAnchi Paramacharya meant as winning over MAya using

MAya - in his discourses about SL.

3. Since you quoted a name from LSN - "unconditional love - it can

also be deemed to be LOVE irrlevant of the path. It again supports

the above statement (#2).

Also, there is another name of Devi, Kaulamarga-thathpara-sevithA,

which means "Worshipped by those who practice Kaula marga."

There is another which says, "LOpAmudhrArchithA," which

means, "Worshipped by LOpAmudhrA," who is a kaula. It can be also be

taken like this. When the VAk devathas said that SHE was worshipped

by Lopamudhra, a kaula, it gives credence to Kaula practice.

Of course there are several kaulas here and most (yes, not all) have

never said anything against Saathvik upasana.

There is also another nAma - "HeyopAdeyavarjitA", SHE is beyond

rejecting or accepting (any practices - as interpreted in this

context).

What is good for the goose is good for the gander, or as Kochu

mentioned, what is good for the Guru is good for the Sishyas.

KAnchi Paramacharya said about kundalini practice is akin to

electricity lighting a light bulb, why it needs a switch to be

thrown to light up. It is to be done by Gurus and with their

guidance.

In the same way, the electricity can be produced by hydroelectric or

atomic plant or a generator in the backyard or even a simple dynamo

attached to a bicycle's tyre. End result is light, which illuminates

the environment.

I am not saying that one path is like massive power plants producing

megawatts of electricity and the other produces lesser wattages,

but, depending on HER wish a sadhaka may need intense sadhana while

another may need only moderate sadhana to realize HER, irrespective

of the path.

And BTW, the names in LSN are not just to be read to worship HER,

but also be practiced - as guided by HER (in the form of one's

Guru). So whether it is lOpAmudhrarchithA/kaula mArga thathpara

sevitha or samayAchAra-thathparA - has to be done as instructed by

the Guru as an avyAja-karunA-murthi - showing unconditional love

towards everyone and everything. :-)

, "shankara_bhagavatpada"

<shankara_bhagavatpada> wrote:

Now the qualities and nature of three gunas are described by acharya

shankara and also the greatest of srividya upasaka. A good matured

and discrimating mind can know which of these gunas helps for the

knowledge of brahman. so one should always stick to sattvic form of

sadhana as the final solution of each upasana is iberation. The use

of meats, liquior, sex, in worship will not help the sadaka for

higher stages. As most them do only navavarna puja miss out the

final avarna called parabrahma chakra (srividyarnava tantra)which is

nirguna upasana which can be attained only through sattvic worship.

Acharya shankara never used of meat, fish or sex in his devi

upasana . some have quoted that without the use this items devi is

not pleased ,i kindly request them to read the 992 name in sri

lalitha sahasranama (avyaja-karuna-murtaye) unconditional grace.

Mother never expects anything from her child other than being in her

presence. ambal is beyond sex only for the sake of mind, she is

given feminine aspect.silly reasoning cannot make one free from

their inner lust, anger, pride, etc. (note: Only to the knowledge

that amba has given to me.)

> OM TAT SAT

>

November 10, 2005

, "ganpra" <ganpra@r...> wrote:

2. In either samyAchara or vAmachara, the final stage of realizing

> brahman - comprising of both saguna (Shakthi) and Nirguna (Shiva)

is beyond both (and all) paths. In Sri Vidya Upasana, it so seems

that the SVU's worship only Saguna Brahman - because they worship

only HER. At later stages, SVU's worship the Bindhu, which

represents the confluence of Nirguna and Saguna brahman(s). Still if

a SVU meditates on the confluence alone, they will never rise above

Maya to realize brahman. At that stage it is HER will/wish which

makes one realize brahman. None of the above mentioned practices

matter. This is what KAnchi Paramacharya meant as winning over MAya

using MAya - in his discourses about SL.

I have problem with this. Now based from what I understand [ im

still very limited in my knowledge I have to admit, but we are all

here to learn. So if this is wrong, correct me please ] DEVI herself

is the Brahman. The Nirguna and Saguna.

In the Devi Bhagavat Purana and the Devi Mahatmya, Mahadevi is the

ultimate overlord of creation. She is described as the highest,

primordial Shakti, the mother of all the worlds, eternal and

omnipresent, the ultimate support of all that exists. When the

Mahadevi wishes to create the cosmos, she does so without effort or

desire. Through the creative forces, she became two portion. One ,

she remain Nirguna Sakti, but she also became three saktis that are

involved in the creation [ in her Saguna/ creative aspect] : Sattvic

Saktis, Rajasic Saktis, and Tamasic Saktis. Her Sattvic aspect

becomes Mahalakshmi, the Rajasic aspects becomes MahaSarawati and

her Tamasic aspects becomes MahaKali.

November 10, 2005

I just wanted to include the fact that the Kanchi Paramacharya discourse on SL

starts with the paragraph

" Adi Sankara Bhagavatpada whom we adore as Acarya[the preceptor appearing in

the middle of the Advaita parampara or lineage beginning with Sadasiva, i.e.,

Sri Daksinamurti] was an incarnation of the Lord Paramesvara. He was

Daksinamurti descended to earth, the god who remains in profound silence and in

deep quiescence with all power of jnana drawn inward.....". In other words,

taking your ranking into consideration your point #1 is incorrect. : ).

I agree that it is beyond us as to the path that is right for us to follow. It

is decided by Parabrahma-Sakti as to which is the mode for us, through Guru.

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