DEATH !!!!!!!! [ Energy of transformation that lead to healing. ] And

[Guest guest]

, "Felicia" <hygeiea44@l...>

wrote: I can speak only from my own experience, thus:

>

> , "NMadasamy"

<nmadasamy@s...> wrote:

>

> > If you look back at our previous discussion, I did ask : did

> > manmathan died or he just got transformed?

>

> Where I come from (California), we say death *IS* change -

synonymous. I have found, in my own experience, there is a

necessarily destructiveelement to radical change. YMMV, of course.

The destructive nature of change is less apparent when change is

incremental. Less apparent = veiled only to the unobservant or

ignorant, but still apparent to those who have eyes to see and ears

to hear.

 

 

I read your message with interest. Thank you Felicia. Quite

ironically though, I've been thinking a lot about this death issue.

Abt the young Australian Vietnamese boy, about my own immediate

extended family who is being diagonse with a terminal illness, my

own father is dying, about all those death's ive encountered in my

nursing life. I remember as a young trainee, being asked to sit and

observed a construction worker who had a fall from 10th floor, the

resust team tried very hard to save him but fail. He was gasping,

and i'm being instructed to sit and record the time of his final

breath. I sat there yes! observing him like an obedient trainee, and

a lot of thoughts came across my mind. What is it like to be dead?

What is death? I have a pic in my private collection of a nurse,

facing a firing squad and her eyes look directly at them. Im being

told, she refused to have her eyes covered. Sometimes I like to

imagine being Her. What is it like?

 

Death *IS* change as you remarked. And this change too is a process

of transformation? A member here once remarked: the Durga story is

so bloody. Full of death and a lot of killing. The Lalitopakhyana

[LP] it self yes is a bloody story. But then again, if we look at

it. Devi Mahatmaya [DM] and Lalitopakhyana is a spiritual text. Devi

Mahatmaya and LP is the journey of the soul. So can we literally

take the death and the killing in these two text at face value. Is

the death in DM and LP the same death as we understand it?

 

As part of my sadhana I have to undergo 'death'. Its either I "kill"

myself, or somebody "kill" me, and in my early stage, when I forgot

to "kill" myself, my guru will "kill" me. I often asked my other

partner "I wonder how does He "kill" me. " , the reply I

got "he "kill" you with compassion".

 

And I get burn and turn into ashes etc. And we emerge from the

sadhana still the same. We are still alive but what is being killed

and burnt is our "Self". This "self" undergoing transformation as

the result of that killing and burning?

 

Just another questions pop in my head : why do we need to go through

these bloody battle and this horrified killing & burning, is there

other more compassionate way?

 

I like to share my conversation with my guru looooooooooong time

ago. NM is me, GU is my Guru.

 

NM : During my earlier days in nursing, I have this tendency that

once I put on the nursing uniform, Nora ceases to exist. A new

identity is born. and I became a very different person. Do you

consider that as Bhootasuddhi? I am trying to connect this.

 

GU : That is not Bhootasuddhi. It is called Taadaatmya. Its being

one with the role you are playing.

 

NM : It is a wonderful feeling. I sense freedom. No boundaries. I am

not bounded with any religious or political affliations, but what I

represent : The Nurse.

 

GU : When you sit for Japa, you ARE Devi. It must become an

enjoyable experience.

 

 

Another asked me : DEVI as lover vs Devi is You.

 

Why make Devi as the lover when you are the Devi?

[Guest guest]

When there is a beginning, then there will be an end. Death is

beautiful. It's a climax at the end of a story.

 

I feel there are two kinds of death that are relevant to people.

 

The first death is important, it is the death of the self. It is a

process where one discovers who he or she is. It is the true self.

One morphs from the animal self to the divine self .That is who you

are.

 

Just like the Shiva Linga, one has to bow down to Maya. Death occurs

and one has to transcends it. With Maya's blessing, the new self

will appears and one which is supremely powerful. One becomes an

infant again. All past conditionings will cease to exist. It is a

self beyond all polarities; male and female, good and bad, past and

present etc.

 

I feel this give way for a second magnificent death to occur. When

all ones karmic duties are complete, its time for one to leave the

body. Its better if you are left to choose when you want to die. So

leave your body at will.

 

It means you have learnt your lessons well and you are free from the

cycles of birth and death.

 

I want to remind readers that I have not gone through any of the two

death so this view is my introspection and my knowledge of mystical

teachings. I stand corrected with what I have said.

[Guest guest]

, "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> wrote:

> I read your message with interest. Thank you Felicia.

 

And thank you for sharing your own thought-provoking observations and

experiences.

> Death *IS* change as you remarked. And this change too is a process

> of transformation?

> A member here once remarked: the Durga story is

> so bloody. Full of death and a lot of killing. The Lalitopakhyana

> [LP] it self yes is a bloody story.

 

Birth is a bloody experience, as well, which can be experienced quite

painfully/violently, especially by young, ill-educated, indigent,

inexperienced new mothers. If all goes well, the terror of first-time

birthing experience is quickly followed by bonding and bliss which is

soon mixed with postpartum "blues" (mourning, generally unconsciously,

for the death of the old lifestyle). Blood is part of our tissue -

keeps us alive. It's teeming with antibodies which fight infection -

quite violently, as a matter of fact. Otherwise, we don't survive

illness. ;-)

Can't have peace without violence. There must be duality in order for

union to be possible.

> As part of my sadhana I have to undergo 'death'. Its either I "kill"

> myself, or somebody "kill" me, and in my early stage, when I forgot

> to "kill" myself, my guru will "kill" me. I often asked my other

> partner "I wonder how does He "kill" me. " , the reply I

> got "he "kill" you with compassion".

 

Indeed. There's more to it then that. Now, let's see if I am capable

of explaining it, cogently. ;-)

 

I corresponded with my spouse via email long before I ever met him.

Because his way of communicating was so vastly different than any I

had previously experienced, I had to consciously shift modes of

thought to play off his communications which provoked wild flights of

imagination. And yet all he did was compare every life experience to

observations he made of his natural surrounds here on the farm. I had

never encountered someone who compared the worst of human behavior to

the normal behavior of a colony of feral cats who inhabit our acreage

or to the silly behavior of migratory birds. My awareness expanded as

I relaxed into this new way of relating to life's experiences. I no

longer defined the less comfy experiences in the ways I had learned to

relate over the first 40 years of my life. I had already been through

the experiences which helped me define my boundaries so that I was now

operating without the old map. As new knowledge was acquired, it

quickly became understanding and wisdom.

 

As a person self-identifies with wisdom, that person becomes Guru.

> And I get burn and turn into ashes etc. And we emerge from the

> sadhana still the same. We are still alive but what is being killed

> and burnt is our "Self". This "self" undergoing transformation as

> the result of that killing and burning?

 

I like to compare it to what happens when a forest is killed by

burning. The seeds of new trees survive a forest fire. New trees

grow from the nutritive ashes.

> Just another questions pop in my head : why do we need to go through

> these bloody battle and this horrified killing & burning, is there

> other more compassionate way?

 

By 'compassionate' do you mean 'gentle'?

Compassion does not necessarily mean gentleness. Sometimes,

compassion uses quite violent means. Sometimes, compassion means

taking into account that the truth told to a "fool" is a lie.

> I like to share my conversation with my guru looooooooooong time

> ago. NM is me, GU is my Guru.

>

> NM : During my earlier days in nursing, I have this tendency that

> once I put on the nursing uniform, Nora ceases to exist. A new

> identity is born. and I became a very different person. Do you

> consider that as Bhootasuddhi? I am trying to connect this.

>

> GU : That is not Bhootasuddhi. It is called Taadaatmya. Its being

> one with the role you are playing.

>

> NM : It is a wonderful feeling. I sense freedom. No boundaries. I am

> not bounded with any religious or political affliations, but what I

> represent : The Nurse.

>

> GU : When you sit for Japa, you ARE Devi. It must become an

> enjoyable experience.

 

Excellent! Thank you for sharing that. :-)

Reminds me of Harish Johari's illustration of Sarasvati composed

completely of mantra japa written out in a pattern to create the

depiction of Devi.

> Another asked me : DEVI as lover vs Devi is You.

>

> Why make Devi as the lover when you are the Devi?

 

By the same token, why Taadaatmya, first?

Perhaps Taadaatmya is the easier for you? Most children crawl

backward before crawling forward, then stand, then walk, then run. a

few children skips some of those steps.

 

Equally, making Devi the lover is an important realization and easier

for some than realizing, ultimately, you are the Creator of all your

perceptions of the experiences you choose. Thou art God/dess.

 

But, if thou art God/dess, then all other humans are that, also (most

unaware). Hence, Devi is that with which we seek union (lover) in

various ways - hostility, for example, is a way of relating to

another, a form of union.

 

Death is the ultimate union/samadhi. Prosaicly, in the West, we speak

of "the embrace of the Beloved", but it is not an embrace. It is a

return to the Whole, merging with the Infinite.

 

(Re)Birth is the beginning of particularization. So, a new young

mother (Creator) is bonded to her child (Creation). The

child/creation needs that bond, but, as s/he grows, quickly

individuates from the mother/creator, variously running away and

running toward. The Creator must learn to variously let go of and

embrace (Maintain) the Creation as dictated by needs of that Creation

which must necessarily create a life of its own (Destroy the previous

relationship, e.g., I do not relate to my parents, now, as I did when

I was a young child) in order to become Devi/Creator/Maintainer. So,

too, the relationship between Guru and shishya, day and night, life

and death, no? Constantly revolving.

 

If we wish to particularize further, we can say Sakti is energy of all

this transformation and Siva, awakened, is the resulting

consciousness. Probably overly simplistic.

 

Apologies if this is off-topic for the group.

 

Love,

Felicia

[Guest guest]

Such a delight to read these words shared by you because they make so much sense

in famialiarity.

 

However a very deep sadness engulfs me, and perhaps I am reading too much into

this, or perhaps because I feel so....

 

'So, too, the relationship between Guru and shishya, day and night, life and

death, no? Constantly revolving.'

 

"constantly revolving" so tiring this spinning around in circles...... so

tiring..... death stalks nearer as I get weaker ... how does one surrender...

such painful falls that so much is borken that I wonder if I can ever be whole.

In everything there is nothing, what guru, what shishyaa, what god .... hold on

to straws.. to what ? sorry !

 

Felicia <hygeiea44 wrote: --- In

, "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> wrote:

> I read your message with interest. Thank you Felicia.

 

And thank you for sharing your own thought-provoking observations and

experiences.