Hindu Lite: Hinduism Enters America's Cultural Blender

[Guest guest]

USA TODAY (February 16, 2006): Throw another ingredient in the

American spirituality blender.

 

Pop culture is veering into Hinduism — sort of. Call it a Hindu-esque

sampling of the flavor, images and style of a 6,000-year-old faith -

but with no actual theology involved.

 

"This is how the culture manages everything," says Luis Gonzalez-

Reimann, who teaches Southeast Asian studies and religious studies at

the University of California-Berkeley. "Remember [the TV

show] 'Dharma & Greg'?"

 

That 1997 sitcom featured a free-spirited gal, named Dharma by her

hippie parents. Forget the Hindu idea of dharma as a way of living

that leads to spiritual advancement. It just sounded flip.

 

The latest sign of infatuation with the Hindu-esque is NBC's new

Thursday night hit, "My Name Is Earl". It starts with a mangled take

on the concept of karma as the low-life main character tries to

reverse a lifetime of scamming and stealing by undoing a life-list of

misdeeds. [see SIDEBAR below]

 

That's a slick, quick notion of karma, rather than a true reflection

of the Hindu idea of action and reaction as the "neutral, self-

perpetuating law of the inner cosmos," says Hindu monk Sannyasin

Arumugaswami, editor of Hinduism Today magazine.

 

Then there's Alicia Keys warbling in her song 'Karma', "It's called

karma, baby. And it goes around. What goes around comes around. What

goes up must come down."

 

But "that isn't karma," gripes Shoba Narayan, Hindu columnist for the

spirituality website Beliefnet.com. "That is Newton's Law of

Physics."

 

Watch for reincarnation Hindu-esque style if an Ashton Kutcher-

produced sitcom lands on TV in the fall. "For Pete's Sake" is

actually an interfaith goof: St. Peter plays bouncer at the Pearly

Gates, sending five main characters off to rebirth instead of hell,

garbling both Christian and Hindu theology.

 

After all, there's no law that TV or movies must teach correct

doctrine, says Dick Staub, a writer on faith and culture for

Christianity Today online.

 

Yoga, the 5,000-year-old Hindu physical and meditative discipline, is

everywhere now. Yoga Journal says 31% of Americans who have tried it

say they're seeking "spiritual development."

 

But authentic Hindu yoga schooling is outnumbered by variations more

focused on six-pack abs or non-denominational inner serenity. One

entrepreneur hits every trend button with DVDs teaching Kabbalah

Yoga, borrowing very loosely from Jewish mysticism.

 

Celebrities long have had an affinity for mystical mishmash. Shirley

MacLaine, joking about her many lives, is no longer news.

 

Kutcher, who once sported a "Jesus Is My Homeboy" T-shirt, wed Demi

Moore in a Kabbalah-esque ceremony before veering toward the Hindu-

esque. And Britney Spears brought her 4-month-old son to be blessed

at a Hindu temple in Malibu, Calif., last month.

 

No one begrudges a blessing.

 

"Hinduism is a complicated and beautiful religion, but much more

complicated to adopt as a lifestyle, particularly in our short-cut

culture," says California author Mark Hawthorne, who writes about

hidden Hindu elements in popular culture for Hinduism Today magazine.

 

But believers object when riffs plunder serious spiritual teachings

or venerable images.

 

Hindu groups' complaints led to cutting Sanskrit chanting from an

orgy scene in the 1999 film "Eyes Wide Shut". The American Hindu Anti-

Defamation Coalition protested a Chicago strip club that put Hindu

deity masks on its dancers, fashion retailers who slapped god and

goddess images on underwear and the soles of shoes, and the portrayal

of Hare Krishnas as a gang forcing conversions in the video game

Grand Theft Auto 2.

 

It's not easy for Americans to recognize when a slight glance crosses

over to an offensive slap. Americans' exposure to expressions of

Hinduism largely is limited to travelogues of India, Bollywood song-

and-dance movies and the Fox TV cartoon antics of Apu

Nahasapeemapetilon, the Indian Kwik-E-Mart clerk on "The Simpsons".

 

Hinduism, followed by 930 million people worldwide, 98% in India,

actually is a 19th-century term for a spectrum of ancient teachings,

just as Christianity covers denominations as varied as Catholics,

Baptists and Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

As Christians are unified by the centrality of Christ, so Hindus,

divided among thousands of sects and sub-sects, are unified by "one,

all-pervasive supreme God, though he or she may be worshiped in many

forms," says Suhag Shukla.

 

Shukla is the author of a fact sheet on the faith for the Hindu

American Foundation, a U.S.-based human rights group that defends and

explains Hinduism for an estimated 2 million Hindus in the USA.

 

The foundation finds mass media often present Hindus as polytheistic

(not) and idol worshipers (not) and confuses religious teachings with

controversial social practices such as providing a dowry.

 

"The truth is one. The wise call it by many names," she says, quoting

the Vedas, the 6,000-year-old texts that form the basis of the faith.

 

So what else is new? Hollywood has been mocking Christian culture for

years. Recent examples:

 

• NBC's The Book of Daniel, starring a pill-popping Episcopal priest

and his family of prolific sinners, already has flopped off the

schedule.

 

• An NBC press release says an upcoming "Will & Grace" episode would

include a Christian cooking show called Cruci-fixin's. Two days after

the Christian conservative American Family Association blasted NBC,

the network said the release was mistaken and the script will contain

no such thing.

 

It could be argued that exposing the West to Hindu ideas and images —

short of blasphemy — can't be all bad if it provokes further study.

 

"Theology is understood by scriptwriters as an a la carte menu of

ideas," says Staub. "Blenderism accepts the relativity of truth.

There's no requirement to assert any one thing is right or wrong. Put

it in the blender, and there you go."

 

Never underestimate our ability to ignore theological distinctions,

says Jana Riess, religion book review editor for Publishers Weekly

and author of 'What Would Buffy Do? The Vampire Slayer as Spiritual

Guide.'

 

"Whatever we appropriate from Hinduism is fairly superficial, and

television crystallizes this for dramatic effect," she says. "Hindu

ideas evolved over thousands of lifetimes. We don't have the patience

for this."

 

SIDEBAR: A WESTERN TAKE ON HINDUISM

 

"My Name Is Earl" features Earl's misadventures as he tries to undo a

list of 200-plus misdeeds and bank the benefits. Karma à la

Earl: "Whether picking up trash, returning stolen merchandise or

helping a homosexual find love, it always has the same reward:

feeling good about yourself."

 

But the point of Hinduism isn't present-day happiness. "You don't

work for the fruits of your labor; you do your best for the sake of

your spiritual duty to do the best," says Suhag Shukla of the Hindu

American Foundation.

 

"For Pete's Sake", Ashton Kutcher's sitcom-in-the-works, plays on

reincarnation. It's named for St. Peter, but when characters die,

they get to try life over again.

 

"The message is, when you're down here, you're here to learn a

lesson. And if you don't get it right, they keep sending you back

until hopefully you do," Kutcher's co-producer Jason Goldberg told

Daily Variety.

 

Reincarnation is a core belief in Hinduism, says Mark Hawthorne, who

writes for Hinduism Today, but the ultimate aim is for the soul to

transcend its individuality and reunite with the one God.

 

Yoga's mind-body workout has attracted at least 16.5 million

Americans, says Yoga Journal. And, the magazine assures readers, it's

not necessary to study or follow a Hindu or Buddhist path to practice.

 

However, authentic Hindu yoga is a 5,000-year-old

discipline "designed to change your consciousness," says Hawthorne.

Yoga's meditative chanting is believed to carry spiritual vibrations

that bring one close to God.

 

SOURCE: USA TODAY

URL: http://www.usatoday.com/life/2006-02-15-hindu-lite_x.htm

[Guest guest]

Had their forefathers imbibed the sensitivity of the original inhabitants of

those lands, there would be no need for the chop-chop of the blender !

 

 

Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta wrote: USA TODAY (February 16, 2006):

Throw another ingredient in the

American spirituality blender.

 

Pop culture is veering into Hinduism � sort of. Call it a Hindu-esque

sampling of the flavor, images and style of a 6,000-year-old faith -

but with no actual theology involved.

 

"This is how the culture manages everything," says Luis Gonzalez-

Reimann, who teaches Southeast Asian studies and religious studies at

the University of California-Berkeley. "Remember [the TV

show] 'Dharma & Greg'?"

 

<part of this message removed>

[Guest guest]

Dear red;

I do have something to share about this trend. This is all my own

experience and opinion; and I wouldn't even share it unless I knew that I was

helped spiritually because of seeing what I believe is the truth about this

thing.

 

I am a Native American/american that believes in Veda and Devi. I also,

since I am Sri Vidyan, don't see any problem for respecting or even practicing

different faiths that are consonant with my love for Mother.

 

About Dharma and Greg:

I have practicing Sri Vidya and yoga for about 17 years. I have been a

yoga instructor for 14. I have seen many of the Gurus that have come to the USA

and their devotees, and I usually see the same type of problems for all.

 

Most of the people are ignorant of any of the practices of sanatana

dharma, the traditions, the Gods and Goddesses, the Vedas, the Purananas, the

Aghyamas, even the Bhajans. If they know rudimentary sanskrit, they feel like

they are experts and get a big ego.

 

It has just been in the past two years that the biggest Guru in the West,

whose name I will not mention, has even taught the people about simple pujas.

 

I remember asking one of her Swamis once about a picture of a God in the

Ashram, asking if it was Dattatreya. The Swami said to me something to the

affect that it wasn't important, because "we worship the self". He wouldn't even

tell me the name of the God--if he even knew.

 

Few of the gurus teach the people about god/dess. They teach people about

"the self" and meditation, before the people can even love God/dess and their

fellow man. It results, I think in spacing out, spiritual experiences that may

be manipulated by unseen forces or mass hysteria, lots of costly "feel good"

workshops, and little substance.

 

Many of these very beautiful devotees have been practicing yoga and

meditation for years, reading and trying to acquire knowledge, but it is empty.

It is empty because it is more about being special, spiritual experiences, and

being spiritually gifted than it is about Bhakti.

 

This is the trend in all the new age religion in USA.

 

This trend is a horrific mess where something which is supposed to be

beautiful has become a big ego trip.

 

As it says in the Gita, those who work to acquire knowledge first before

bhakti will fail miserably in their aim.

 

I know this personally, because I have been among those like this.

 

Yoga teachers in the USA are, I believe largely responsible; as are Gurus

who have no time to teach people who love them.

 

Hatha yoga and meditation was never meant for materialistic people who

cannot follow or who are completely ignorant of what the Yamas and Niyamas are.

This may seem like a given to a born hindu, but not here. I know four people who

teach yoga in this town. All of them do not seem to know what the yamas and

niyamas are--nor do they seem to really care.

 

I myself would not know anything about these things, except that I lucky

enough to be taught by a Sankaracharya swami with the blessings of Sringeri

Mutt.

 

However, this makes me all the more responsible for committing a grave

error and confusing my students.

 

I was teaching people yoga for money; when almost all my students were not

even willing to consider being a vegetarian, let alone attempt to follow the

yamas and niyamas to the best of their ability. I guess I told myself I could

change them through yoga.

 

I thank my Guruji for advising me to stop teaching people for money or I

would be right in the thick of all this ignorance and karma.

 

If people don't want to learn about God/dess, pujas, the Gita, karma yoga

and bhakti, they don't come to me. (They get bored with my classes, I guess!)

 

Now I feel that US people usually need Karma yoga and training in how to

acquire love for their deity. Not more ego driven knowledge. A little hatha yoga

is ok if they do this; and try to follow the yamas and niyamas.

 

Given all my self criticism and criticism of non-born hindus here; I ask

all of you--how many of you would give up all your free time and thousands of

dollars every year to even try to learn more about sanatana dharma? Many people

in the USA have to give up large sums of money, friends, family, spouses, jobs

and community respect to even attempt to practice this life. It is a difficult

choice for them, difficult to learn and no one here respects them for it; and

many hindus in India don't either.

 

Mother is there in our spirits but we do not have the teachers. Thank

goodness for people like Amritananda Natha Saraswati and the late Jagadguru of

Sringeri who cared enough about us here to teach, and send and train teachers.

Not to convert--to help people who love Mother.

 

I have a little Peetham to Sri Kamakshi here, and I try to teach FOR FREE

what I know so that yoga students can go on to find someone like Guruji, who can

help them.

 

If their are any experienced Sri Vidyans or Yogis that are interested in

helping with this problem somehow, email me to talk.

 

love in HER,

Samatmika

[Guest guest]

> Hatha yoga and meditation was never meant for materialistic people

>who cannot follow or who are completely ignorant of what the Yamas and

>Niyamas are. This may seem like a given to a born hindu, but not here. I

>know four people who teach yoga in this town. All of them do not seem to

>know what the yamas and niyamas are--nor do they seem to really care.

>

> I myself would not know anything about these things, except that I

>lucky enough to be taught by a Sankaracharya swami with the blessings of

>Sringeri Mutt.

--\

---------------------->Hi,

 

Thanks for your wonderful mail. The work that you are dedicating is truly

divine and may goddess bless you.

 

I am also a yoga student. Yamas and Niyamas is nothing but battle between

conscious and subconscious mind. There are many who has an inborn art or

have learnt to deal with external and inner world and can lead a tranquil

life even when life throws challanges at them. But, some are unable to and

they constantly swing between the two and look for an answer elsewhere..

In the process they might turn to some self help group or spiritualism

etc.. There is nothing wrong in it . All this will teach them to look within

themselves and identify thieir cause and come to terms - or put it this way

teach them to handle diplomatically.(mainly self -Help guru's)

..

There are yogic asana's related to spiritual enlightenment but it also helps

to keep us healthy. Yoga helps definately. Asanas like SARVANAGA ASANA,

HALA ASANA ETC. if done properly do help to curtail impulsive reactions. It

really works on Yama's and Niyamas

 

May be shankaracharya has one teaching for you - i have had seen him

initiating to those disciplie who may have wealth yoga - without taking into

account their moral character in society. and they have prospered. Inturn,

huge donation goes to that ashram. So, for him to say, yoga should not be

taught for money is not correct. This is my opinion.

 

I donot want to stir up any contraversy - i personally donot enjoy hitting

someone intentionally and i donot like tobe hit either.

 

This is only experience shared and witnessed. All spiritual leader's who

has instituation to support. first they worship goddess Laxmi. She is very

important goddess, she helps to execute thought and ideas through the

medium of money. This is fundamental principle. I donot see anything wrong

in it.

 

When these people who use their celebrity status to address a cause - i

donot see it as an issue. All guru's are mortal they have their weakness -

For eg Deepak chopra famous doctor who deals with alternative medicine was a

student of Maharshi Mahesh Yogi. But, as they progresed - student- teacher

relationship started deteriorating.. They went seaparte ways. But, the

foundation deepak chopra got is from Maharishi - who initiates 50 t0 100 at

times of money.(normally it is said mantras should not be given for money)

Many have gained but some question him. I have seen his followers in west.

Who am I to question them. They worship him as an incarnation of god.

 

My saying is what is right or wrong is a subjective matter. Maybe you as a

teacher might benefit by helping other's without money.

 

I am not a teacher nor I go to any schools but I practice what is being

taught.= it helps my joint pain. raji.

 

--\

-----------------------------

>

> > Few of the gurus teach the people about god/dess. They teach

>people about "the self" and meditation, before the people can even love

>God/dess and their fellow man. It results, I think in spacing out,

>spiritual experiences that may be manipulated by unseen forces or mass

>hysteria, lots of costly "feel good" workshops, and little substance.

 

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU.

=============================================================>>

.

>

> I was teaching people yoga for money; when almost all my students

>were not even willing to consider being a vegetarian, let alone attempt to

>follow the yamas and niyamas to the best of their ability. I guess I told

>myself I could change them through yoga.

 

 

 

The reason why Yoga emphasis on Vegetarin is that : AS SAYING GOES YOU ARE

WHAT YOU EAT.

iT is said that animal has only one goal that is to live and reproduce = so,

by eating animal products our animal instinct to produce inother words

sexual desire will increase = Kundalini Yoga focuses on diverting that

energy upward. Hence, they suggest satwik inotherwords organic food.

[Guest guest]

Dearest Samatmika,

 

The Silver Jublee celebrations of The Art of Living Sudarshan Kriya by Shri Shri

Ravi Shankar are being telecast live as I write this.

 

Shri Dattatreya is recognised by the four dogs at his feet which represent the

four Vedas.

 

I did/do get pretty angry (stems from fear, loss of control) when I read about

how Native Americans were short-changed by the white-man. And Hollywood kept

churning out cowboy-Indian movies till quite recently. According to Svoboda,

the white-man is an 'asura', closest equivalent in English is 'demon' though

this would be too harsh and not entirely accurate.

 

Asuras represent Tamas, however unlike Tamas which one could broadly define as

lazy, the Asuras are just the opposite. It is a paradox that Man who is

muscular and tough is not Shakti, Woman who is gentle and physically weaker

represents this tremendous force, and She in her gentleness is surprisingly not

the Observer/Consciousness; Man is. The external stillness of meditation hiding

the tremendous activity/insight happening within.

 

So the whiteman creates unfair trade practices, bullying , weapons of mass

destruction, pornography, racial inequality, stealing through force (all the

wealth and lands they enjoy have been snatched from non-white races, and they

now stand by laws to protect their stolen wealth, which they would not have had

had they followed their own laws - savvy), global warming, polloution (I was

shocked to see the way plastic bags were used/available during my 6 month stay

in London). Well what better can one expect from an asura ! Like me, I am

sure many of us have wonderful asura friends. Paradox ?!

 

And there is the flip-side, the good asura part. Medical advancements, advance

in science and technology, common laws across nations, charitable work across

the globe, improved lifestyles - TV, blenders, airrconditining, eco awareness

and preservation, and so many marvellous things that are being done by the

asura. This common language of English.

 

As Osho quite aptly put it, and what Arjuna had on the battlefield of

Kurukshetra until Krishna revealed his divine form; is 'key-hole' vision. We

see the complete picture once we come out from behind the key-hole and open the

door. We know when we step-out ;-)

 

The new generation of asuras (by the way I am partially English and Portuguese

and more Indian - so allow me to indulge in some self-bashing on both sides of

the fence :-p ) are now going back to those peoples their ancestors ravaged

materially, to ravage some more spiritually :-p They desire a 'fix', a

quick-fix, hence the blender; a definative American/asura kitchen device. Is it

so strange, a blender for the body and another for the soul ?

 

We each get taught, receive and give as per our station. Everything is perfect.

So let there be these many types of Gurus and blenders, in India I am told we

have 330 million Gods and Goddesses (by golly !) , I guess it would not be so,

had it not meant to be so.

 

How can I speak authoratively when I sit behind my keyhole ? I can only express

opinions based on very very limited perception.

 

Why creation if not to experience the infinity of it. The pervasive dance of

Sat - Chit - Ananda ! This is one thing I am sure about, and my one prayer is

 

asato ma sat gamaya

tamaso ma jyotir gamaya

mrytor ma amritam gamaya

 

In reverence,

 

Red

[Guest guest]

I guess I have a very basic understanding of the yamas and

niyamas and am not where you are yet: like ahimsa - DON'T HARM OTHER

BEINGS. (HELP THEM.) Basic morality.

 

I had to examine my actions of teaching people yoga for money in

light of this and an important reality:

 

The majority of students do not think that even the basic morality of

spirituality that is taught in the Yamas and Niyamas is a code to live by.

Patangali states this is necessary for any student of yoga. (It is like not

following the shastras, and attempting to become a priest.) Very dangerous.

 

I chose to teach people that I knew were not really interested in any spiritual

practice but were looking for, as the singer-star Madonna says," Yoga makes my

butt look better," or for experimentation with spirituality AND "making their

butt look better", the very powerful practices of hatha yoga and mantra yoga.

 

I did so hoping to teach them some of the love I have for these things, and to

help them discover their own spiritual path, or become interested in it. I also

taught them because I wanted money, and spiritual status in their and in my own

eyes.

 

Of all the students I have had, only one has taken mantra diksha with a Guru. I

have taught close to 1000 students.

 

What has happened to all the rest? Do they love God/dess and other human beings

more? Or are they in the great numbers of people that are reading Yoga Journal

and are being taught even more powerful things to get even more ego and karma

with ("You don't have to be a Buddhist or Hindu to learn these things.."

 

This is the karma that I have created for myself.

 

Now... how did my Guruji help me? Do not teach for money, he said. I did what my

guru asked...now I have one student. If you do teaching for free in USA no one

will come! (A good teacher in the USA is one that charges a lot of money for

workshops or classes and advertises in Yoga Journal.)

 

It is really very funny, I guess. Well, hopefully many mantras, pujas and

prayers for my former students will help diminish some of the stupid things I

have done. I guess Mother is using her goad and noose on me ...

 

Samatmika

 

, "rajeshwari iyer"

<rajii31 wrote:

>

>

> > Hatha yoga and meditation was never meant for

materialistic people

> >who cannot follow or who are completely ignorant of what the

Yamas and

> >Niyamas are. This may seem like a given to a born hindu, but not

here. I

> >know four people who teach yoga in this town. All of them do not

seem to

> >know what the yamas and niyamas are--nor do they seem to really

care.

> >

> > I myself would not know anything about these things,

except that I

> >lucky enough to be taught by a Sankaracharya swami with the

blessings of

> >Sringeri Mutt.

[Guest guest]

My dearest Samatmika,

 

I find this too, lip-service. Spirituality is not a popularity contest. In

India the most fun-loving popular guy has been our Krishna, and how many liked

him even then ? Christ, Mohammad, Buddha, Mahavir, so many past and present day

Gurus, all criticised by so many. In schools and colleges Teachers are

'tolerated', so to Bosses in offices. God is abused and cursed. I think mst

people live with the inadequacies by pointing at others; case in point being

advice parents give their kids - like, if you don't like your food eat it, think

f the starving in Africa wo have nothing. Among a Tamil descent group from

Singapore who visited Kerala through the travel agency I worked for, was a

gentleman who shared with me the pearl of wisdom of why he brought his kids to

India; to see how much better off they are in Singapore ! According to National

Geographic Traveller, Kerala is one of the 50 must see places in the world, it

is so beautiful. Remember Enter the Dragon, Bruce Lee

instructing his young pupil not to look at his finger else he would miss all

the heavenly beauty his finger was pointing too !

 

I remember watching on tv, a Robin Hood serial many years ago. Robin was deep

in the forest speaking with his 'God', the Forest God Hearn. He told Hearn

that he was fed-up and tired fighting the evil Sheriff of Nottingham, because

the Sheriff was much more powerful and nothing Robin did seemed to make a

difference. Hearn told me something to the effect that "It is not important

that your arrow hit the target, what is important is that you aimed and shot."

This has made tremendous sense to me and been my strenght the many many times

I fall.

 

With love,

 

Red

[Guest guest]

, sue mcniel

<samatmikadevi wrote:

[....]

It has just been in the past two years that the biggest Guru

in the West,

[....] has even taught the people about simple pujas.

 

[....]

Few of the gurus teach the people about god/dess. They

teach people about "the self" and meditation, [....] It

results, I think in spacing out, [...] lots of costly "feel

good" workshops, and little substance.

 

[....] This is the trend in all the new age religion in USA.

[end quote]

 

Hi Samatmika (and all),

 

Actually, this particular adaptation/simplification of

teachings pre-dates the New Age movement by decades.

As indicated by the following quotes, the adaptation can be

read as a sensitive and perceptive adaptation by the gurus to

the Western students they encountered.

 

The following quotes come from

_The Graceful Guru: Hindu Female Gurus in India and the

United States_

Karen Pechilis, ed. (pgs. 194-195; "Shree Maa of

Kamakkhya", by Lorilai Biernacki )

 

[begin quote]

The majority of Hindu guru groups in the United States do

not emphasize puja; often they even actively avoid it, or

else they reserve it for the later teachings for seasoned

members. The Transcendental Meditation movement is a

good illustration, though by no means the only one. In the

more common presentation to Westerners, these groups

offer a teaching presented in scientific terms. Notions of

"religion" are eschewed in favor of "technique." Yoga is

presented as a science [....]

 

[....] Hinduism first arrived in America with

Vivekananda's celebrated success at the Parliament of

World Religions in 1893. With this he left a legacy that

was to influence man of the gurus who came to the West in

his wake. [....] [H]e stressed the rational, the scientific, and

saw Advaita Vendanta as in perfect attunement with the

notions of science. [....] For Vivekananda, the appeal of

Hinduism for the West lay in its capacity to include all

other faiths. [....] [T]his transcendence of the particular

made it eminently alignable with what was currently the

best of the West, or in any case, its predominantl and

exciting alternative to religious beliefs, that is, science.

[....]

 

Historically, then, Vivekananda's Advaita Vendanta could

transcend the messiness of the particular, could present

itself as an objective science, and at the same time avoid

upsetting the sensibilities of a Western populace with a

predominantly Protestant background opposed to idolatry.

He left a legacy that has set the tone for most of the gurus

who succeeded him; the Hinduism they bring is a technique

for altering consciousness, applicable to any religious belief

system. [....]

 

This consonance between the scientific rationality of a

metareligious Vedanta and a Western world disenchanted

with the apparently deleterious effects of opiate religion set

the tone for much Hindu missionizing in the West through

the twentieth century. At least in part, the success of the

missionizing had to do precisely with the excision of

multiple deities, with their multiple heads a, the exclusion

of the seeming idolatry of offering food and lights, incense,

and so on to [seemingly] inert statues. [....]

 

[end quote]

 

I think those (historical) gurus were justified in presenting

Hinduism as they did, but I am not sure the "sanitization"

of Hinduism is all that necessary these days. The scientific

presentation still holds its appeal, and it seems a good fit

for some schools (check out the Shakti Sadhana splash

page!). But I'm not so sure it's still necessary for Hindu

groups in the West to delete puja and deity images from

their practices. Things have changed. Interestingly, the

popular guru Samatmika refers to appears to have picked

up on the shift, as he's apparently now teaching puja.

 

I think the New Age movement may be largely responsible

for the change (dare we say anything positive about the

New Agers?) A guru coming to the West these days will

very likely encounter New Agers and Neopagans who have

been happily decorating their home altars with all sorts of

doodads from the New Age store, including images and

statues of various deity forms. While there are still stylistic

differences about the artistic presentation of images, I don't

think there's as much a need to tiptoe around Western

sensibilities with regards to deity images and offerings.

 

The thought of puja kits showing up in New Age shops

makes me cringe a bit, but perhaps the positive side could

be a fuller, richer, expression of Hinduism in the West.

[Guest guest]

Really good points. It made me look at it in a new way--but I have to

think--would it be a good thing to teach Christian techniques in prayer with no

worship of god? I guess in India perhaps people put their own deity into

different techniques quite easily, I guess there is a historical tradition for

that and is inherent in Hinduism. Perhaps Hindus also do not see that having a

different deity is wrong. I don't think that this is the case of the majority of

USAers who are raised somewhat Christian. "Jesus is the only God and everyone

else will go to h---.". That is the teaching. There is a huge amount of

subconscious fear from this that most people have to work through to become

involved in even secular meditation.

Also, those that are questioning their own tradition and are looking

elswhere here are likely already having a basic problem in a relationship with

God/dess in their own tradition, and are trying to solve it through technique,

instead of faith and love of the deity. I realise that there are exceptions to

this, like Thomas Merton was in the 1970's--he was interested in Buddhism, I

think purely on a level of technique.

I know quite a few Neo-pagans and I am not sure that they use images in any

different way than people who have statutes of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and

Mary, who are Christians, do. My experience is that they tend to believe that

there is no inherent power in their statues--not like an idol of Devi, which has

a pranapratistha-- and use the images in a conceptual or symbolic way in

ceremony or as reminders to create an atmosphere.

I really enjoyed your comments. It really points out to me that the

perspective of a person born into Hindusim can be quite different from someone

like me.

 

Samatmika

 

msbauju <msbauju wrote:

, sue mcniel

<samatmikadevi wrote:

[....]

It has just been in the past two years that the biggest Guru

in the West,

[....] has even taught the people about simple pujas.

 

[....]

Few of the gurus teach the people about god/dess. They

teach people about "the self" and meditation, [....] It

results, I think in spacing out, [...] lots of costly "feel

good" workshops, and little substance.

 

[....] This is the trend in all the new age religion in USA.

[end quote]

 

Hi Samatmika (and all),

 

Actually, this particular adaptation/simplification of

teachings pre-dates the New Age movement by decades.

As indicated by the following quotes, the adaptation can be

read as a sensitive and perceptive adaptation by the gurus to

the Western students they encountered.

 

The following quotes come from

_The Graceful Guru: Hindu Female Gurus in India and the

United States_

Karen Pechilis, ed. (pgs. 194-195; "Shree Maa of

Kamakkhya", by Lorilai Biernacki )

 

[begin quote]

The majority of Hindu guru groups in the United States do

not emphasize puja; often they even actively avoid it, or

else they reserve it for the later teachings for seasoned

members. The Transcendental Meditation movement is a

good illustration, though by no means the only one. In the

more common presentation to Westerners, these groups

offer a teaching presented in scientific terms. Notions of

"religion" are eschewed in favor of "technique." Yoga is

presented as a science [....]

 

[....] Hinduism first arrived in America with

Vivekananda's celebrated success at the Parliament of

World Religions in 1893. With this he left a legacy that

was to influence man of the gurus who came to the West in

his wake. [....] [H]e stressed the rational, the scientific, and

saw Advaita Vendanta as in perfect attunement with the

notions of science. [....] For Vivekananda, the appeal of

Hinduism for the West lay in its capacity to include all

other faiths. [....] [T]his transcendence of the particular

made it eminently alignable with what was currently the

best of the West, or in any case, its predominantl and

exciting alternative to religious beliefs, that is, science.

[....]

 

Historically, then, Vivekananda's Advaita Vendanta could

transcend the messiness of the particular, could present

itself as an objective science, and at the same time avoid

upsetting the sensibilities of a Western populace with a

predominantly Protestant background opposed to idolatry.

He left a legacy that has set the tone for most of the gurus

who succeeded him; the Hinduism they bring is a technique

for altering consciousness, applicable to any religious belief

system. [....]

 

This consonance between the scientific rationality of a

metareligious Vedanta and a Western world disenchanted

with the apparently deleterious effects of opiate religion set

the tone for much Hindu missionizing in the West through

the twentieth century. At least in part, the success of the

missionizing had to do precisely with the excision of

multiple deities, with their multiple heads a, the exclusion

of the seeming idolatry of offering food and lights, incense,

and so on to [seemingly] inert statues. [....]

 

[end quote]

 

I think those (historical) gurus were justified in presenting

Hinduism as they did, but I am not sure the "sanitization"

of Hinduism is all that necessary these days. The scientific

presentation still holds its appeal, and it seems a good fit

for some schools (check out the Shakti Sadhana splash

page!). But I'm not so sure it's still necessary for Hindu

groups in the West to delete puja and deity images from

their practices. Things have changed. Interestingly, the

popular guru Samatmika refers to appears to have picked

up on the shift, as he's apparently now teaching puja.

 

I think the New Age movement may be largely responsible

for the change (dare we say anything positive about the

New Agers?) A guru coming to the West these days will

very likely encounter New Agers and Neopagans who have

been happily decorating their home altars with all sorts of

doodads from the New Age store, including images and

statues of various deity forms. While there are still stylistic

differences about the artistic presentation of images, I don't

think there's as much a need to tiptoe around Western

sensibilities with regards to deity images and offerings.

 

The thought of puja kits showing up in New Age shops

makes me cringe a bit, but perhaps the positive side could

be a fuller, richer, expression of Hinduism in the West.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Devi Traditions Divine Hinduism

 

 

 

 

Visit your group "" on the web.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mail

Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Msbauju:

 

*** The scientific presentation still holds its appeal, and it seems

a good fit for some schools (check out the Shakti Sadhana splash

page!). But I'm not so sure it's still necessary for Hindu groups in

the West to delete puja and deity images from their practices. Things

have changed. ***

 

Interesting! But i don't think it's an either/or proposition. I do

feel that shakti sadhana has amazing parallels in modern physics -- I

try to keep up, at least in the popular journals, with advances in

quantum mechanics as well as the new brain-numbingly long-distance

radioastronomy ... to me, the seamless way in which everything seems

to "snap together" is a source of both awe and inspiration.

 

But at the end of the day, plain old-fashioned puja -- yes,

traditional Hindu puja using "deity images" -- is the core of my

practice.

 

The supposed "rationality" of science is not, in my view, an

alternative to the supposed "irrationality" of colorful, multi-limbed

deities. They are complementary. Perhaps one could consider them

as "left brain" and "right brain" poles of a single idea.

 

*** A guru coming to the West these days will very likely encounter

New Agers and Neopagans who have been happily decorating their home

altars with all sorts of doodads from the New Age store, including

images and statues of various deity forms. While there are still

stylistic differences about the artistic presentation of images, I

don't think there's as much a need to tiptoe around Western

sensibilities with regards to deity images and offerings. ***

 

The trick in these cases will be to expand the deities beyond doodad

status and into living instruments for puja. I have an acquaintance

in Boston -- a 50-something MIT grad with one helluva brain in his

head, as well as the obligatory "wandering thru India" phase as a 20-

something, and the neat, consumer-driven Buddhist practice today

(fashionable prayer room right out of Crate & Barrel catalog *lol*.

He could talk physics and astronomy parallels with Eastern

sprituality for hours on end, wide-eyed and as enthusiastic as a kid.

But mention deities, or any hint of the mystery and grace beyond the

bleeding-edge science, and he'd shut down and get all superior-smirky

with me. If I pressed on about puja and mantra and all that, you

could almost see him struggling to restrain himself from throttling

me. *lol*

 

What do I know? But to me, it seemed very self-protective. It is

edifying in the extreme to realize how far rational inquiry will take

you into very deep spiritual waters. But at a certain point, you have

to let go of that floatation device and do the hard work of letting

faith carry you -- the japa, and puja and deities and gurus who'll

take you even into still deeper waters. What many people fail to

realize, tho, is that, at a certain point, you must let go of these

props too. First the "rational" props go, then the "irrational

props" -- and then there is just you, out in the deepest waters,

where no one can help you except you. And that's when you begin to

realize just what "you" actually means.

 

I don't know. The subject of pujas for the West is so dicey. What

makes me cringe is the mix-n-match nature of the New Age devotees you

mention. I tend to think that a qualified exponent (dare I say guru?)

of a true lineage can adjust and simplify puja for a different time

and place and audience. But the impression I get is of a lot of

people adjust and simplifying it themselves -- changing the images to

something more familiar, cutting corners on the complexities of puja,

approximating mantra pronunciation, tossing in bits and pieces from

other traditions ... achieving just the right design effect for their

personality and decor -- but effectively short-circuiting the process

itself into mere form without appreciable substance.

 

Because science isn't just a way to "sell" Tantric technique to the

West. It IS Tantra -- Tantra IS science, a methodology, that is

applied -- by qualified spiritual masters -- to a given religious

system ... be the focus Shakta, Shaiva, Vaishnava, Buddhist -- or

what have you. But the methodology cannot (in my opinion) be

wholesale grafted onto "any religion." Because, as I noted in the

beginning of this post, there is a necessary complementary nature in

the interaction of technique and belief, of rationality and

irrationality, of science and spirituality. These dual aspects did

not arise independently of one another and get matched together

later -- they are organically interrelated. When you begin to remove

strands of the tradition (be it the "scentific" side or

the "mystical" side) without taking account of the thing as a whole,

the result is decidedly less than the sum of its parts.

 

My point, I guess, would be that the "scientific presentation" vs.

the "puja and deity images" presentation it itself a false duality

that takes us further from the truth rather than closer to it.

 

aim mAtangyai namaH

[Guest guest]

, sue mcniel

<samatmikadevi wrote:

>

> [....]

> I realise that there are exceptions to this,

> like Thomas Merton was in the 1970's--

> he was interested in Buddhism, I think

> purely on a level of technique.

 

That was my impression, too--that he was in search of techniques to

enrich Christian meditative practice. BTW, his posthumous _The

Asian Journal_ is really interesting, and covers that portion of his

life.

> I know quite a few Neo-pagans and I am not sure that they use

images in any different way than people who have statutes of the

Sacred Heart of Jesus and Mary, who are Christians, do. My

experience is that they tend to believe that there is no inherent

power in their statues--not like an idol of Devi, which has a

pranapratistha-- and use the images in a conceptual or symbolic way

in ceremony or as reminders to create an atmosphere.

 

Good point. Neopaganism doesn't have a consistent or necessarily

coherent view of the nature of "deity", given the multiple sources

it draws upon.

An individual Neopagan *could* conceive of the statues as non-inert,

but you're right--a Neopagan is more likely to to see the images as

conceptual or symbolic--it's more consistent with Western culture.

[Guest guest]

, "Devi Bhakta"

<devi_bhakta wrote:

DB> My point, I guess, would be that

the "scientific presentation" vs.

the "puja and deity images" presentation it

itself a false duality

that takes us further from the truth

rather than closer to it.

 

We are indeed in agreement on that point! Eliminating the "editing

out" of puja shouldn't imply there needs to be a replacement editing

out of technique (or scientific approach.) There isn't a dichotomy

here, or shouldn't be. The whole "science vs. spirituality"

dichotomy seems pretty ingrained in Western culture, but it seems

out of place to me in this context.

 

I really just wanted to point out that there's a historical and

cultural context (and some very good reasons!) for Western

expressions of Hinduism being so "technique" based. And that I

don't think the big edit is so necessary these days.

 

DB> What makes me cringe is the

mix-n-match nature of the New Age devotees you

mention. I tend to think that a qualified exponent

(dare I say guru?) of a true lineage can adjust

and simplify puja for a different time

and place and audience. But the impression

I get is of a lot of people adjust and

simplifying it themselves -- changing the images to

something more familiar, cutting corners

on the complexities of puja, approximating

mantra pronunciation, tossing in bits and

pieces from other traditions ... achieving j

ust the right design effect for their

personality and decor -- but effectively

short-circuiting the process itself into

mere form without appreciable substance.

 

Excellent point. What "qualified exponent" may choose to do in

adjusting or simplifying a puja isn't the same as the syncretic do-

it-yourself approach. Not at all the same thing.

 

But I think we could come up with a more charitable read of New

Agers… In my experience (or opinion), these are people experiencing

a very genuine spiritual impulse, and (or but) they're trying to

express it in sort of a problematic cultural/spiritual context. "New

Age", at least in its current Western cultural expression, is so

amorphous.... In way, they're all dressed up (or at least their

altars are) with nowhere to go.