pujas -who am I?

[Guest guest]

Nora mentionend in another postING about the necessity to ask and

explain: Who am I?

 

I like to add to this some other Questions that go with the first and

which my guru taught are very important also.

I like to share them with you:

these are:

 

"Who do i think i am?"

 

and the another Question:

 

"What do others think of me?"

 

and the 4th question:

 

"Does this picture I have of myself differ from what others think of

me?"

 

and

 

"Why does it differ?"

 

The Opinion you have of yourself differs considerably from the

impression you make on me.

First difference : You think you can guide others while i think you

are in need of very basic guidance yourself.

 

Second: You think you are loving and agreeable, but i have the

impression that you have not been agreeable and you have not been

loving. On the contrary: You have talked bad about other paths,(the

Vamamarga) which you seem to know know only by hearsay, and other

teachers also, of Vamamarga and Vedanta in another posting (Teachers

Who teach, and have taught Self Knowledge in the USA, which include

most eminent saints like Vivekananda)

 

So from the very beginning of your appeareance on this list you have

been praising your knowledge and those of your teacher, and have

been talking negative about other Upasakas teachers and teachings.

thats why i consider you are not in a position to give advice but

badly in need of basic guidance.

It is basic in SriVidya that the devi can be reached by both path

kaula and Samaya thats why bad mouthing other upasakas and paths is

considered inappropriate behaviour (to say the least) you should know

this after 14 years of practice .

 

MAHAHRADANATH

 

, sue mcniel <samatmikadevi

wrote:

> I happen to follow the Tripura Sundari or Shodasi path. It is santi.

>I like loving people and being agreeable! You probably know this,

[Guest guest]

Who am I?

I am a human being with opinions like yours. They may differ. All of our

opinions are based upon different experiences we have had, as well as our chosen

or learned world-view, our culture, our sex, country, universe, etc..

Are we asking "who am I" to be loving and accepting of others, really

interested in the answer, or are we attempting to be confrontational with

others, using traditional vedanta? I am not at the place to do jnana yoga, yet.

I am way for back from that.

If this is a site for vama-marga please forgive me for my words about it

and let me know through the moderator; and I won't return to the group. I was

unaware, and my intention is to learn and help others, not hurt. If that is what

is done here I can only cause more irritation.

As to my comments:

I have a personal experience with several pratictioners of vama marga, one

at least, who is a well known individual. One of these individuals attempted to

use siddhis of a certain path of the dasa mahavidyas to lure me into this

path--which I was never interested in and quite innocent of. This person lied to

me and tried to trick me into believing that adharma was acceptable and that I

was somehow special enough--they used my own stupid pride and ego-- to walk that

tradition. For me, I found out that it was not what I wanted when I noticed that

the individuals I knew in it were not interested in love, acceptance, helping

the less fortunate; and were more interested in accumulation of siddhis, mantras

and power. This is my experience.

A school of thought in the Sri Vidya tradition (not all) is that this path

might be alright for those people who are so strong in themselves and in their

sadhana that they can take that kind of heroic path.Those that do follow it must

accept all consequences for their actions, without fear, even to the point of

jail or death--so I understand. They also do adharma fearlessly (including

hiding the truth or lying.). So I'm told.

This is not for me; and as one praticioner I know of said, that most

persons are not capable of following this path--like walking on a razor's edge.

It was not for me. The Sri Vidya tradition in some circles is that one might

benefit from these paths--not all of Sri Vidya.

If you are a practioner of vama marga, please understand that since I

have had this experience, I have a different experience than you, obviously. If

you are a practioner, I'm sure you are aware of what I am talking about.

The issue of the fourteen years is to my own shame. It is sad that one can

have so many years and so little knowledge and so much more to confront in

oneself. It is really about the purification that I need to able to Love Mother

and serve mankind. Thank goodness that Mother is so kind that she gave me

opportunity to be able to study the Vidya, even though I completely unaware and

unworthy of such a great gift.

As to sattva. I probably was wise in determining I cannot follow

vama-marga due to the fact I have such rajas and attachment to doing dharma and

ahimsa. This I know and you are quite right in pointing this out. However,

anyone who would write here to criticize anyone or anything has an attachment,

or rajas. Maybe you and I can both work on our attachment together here, so that

we can slowly give up on trying to criticize, humiliate, or change other people.

Mother Bless and help both of us!

What others think of me is not my concern. Everyone interprets what

others say and do in context of their own need and path towards their own

self-purification.

What I think of me, may not be all that important either. So much of what

we think about ourselves is just conditioning also.

What I think of my moral actions is important to me at this point. Do I

help others, do I try to be kind, do I try to be truthful?

In my trying to be truthful about different issues: About yoga in the

USA.This is an opinion based on my experience in the USA yogic community for 15

years. I have concerns because the practice of yoga, which I love, is being

harmed here. People and students are being harmed. It is my responsibility to

speak out on these issues. Maybe I have misunderstood and this is not the

correct venue (?)--but I did not post the article that brought up the subject.

I have had or have nothing bad to say about Vivekananda. In fact, I spent

quite alot of time in hanging around one of their ashrams in Visakaputnam, and

learned alot there. I have an immense amount of respect for their tradition. I

don't know where you got that idea?

Badmouthing gurus: whom have I badmouthed? Please name the person. You will

not find one name. I have concerns with actions and teachings.

I love my guru and I also admit to the fault of probably talking too highly

and too much of him--another fault of mine is to put people up on pedestles,

which I'm sure is something more to work on.

Well, I hope I have cleared up some of these things and have said things

in a positive and helpful way. Hopefully, we can be kind and try to learn and

help each other not let misunderstandings thwart us.

Love through her,

 

Samatmika

 

 

mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha wrote:

Nora mentionend in another postING about the necessity to ask and

explain: Who am I?

 

I like to add to this some other Questions that go with the first and

which my guru taught are very important also.

I like to share them with you:

these are:

 

"Who do i think i am?"

 

and the another Question:

 

"What do others think of me?"

 

and the 4th question:

 

"Does this picture I have of myself differ from what others think of

me?"

 

and

 

"Why does it differ?"

 

The Opinion you have of yourself differs considerably from the

impression you make on me.

First difference : You think you can guide others while i think you

are in need of very basic guidance yourself.

 

Second: You think you are loving and agreeable, but i have the

impression that you have not been agreeable and you have not been

loving. On the contrary: You have talked bad about other paths,(the

Vamamarga) which you seem to know know only by hearsay, and other

teachers also, of Vamamarga and Vedanta in another posting (Teachers

Who teach, and have taught Self Knowledge in the USA, which include

most eminent saints like Vivekananda)

 

So from the very beginning of your appeareance on this list you have

been praising your knowledge and those of your teacher, and have

been talking negative about other Upasakas teachers and teachings.

thats why i consider you are not in a position to give advice but

badly in need of basic guidance.

It is basic in SriVidya that the devi can be reached by both path

kaula and Samaya thats why bad mouthing other upasakas and paths is

considered inappropriate behaviour (to say the least) you should know

this after 14 years of practice .

 

MAHAHRADANATH

 

, sue mcniel <samatmikadevi

wrote:

> I happen to follow the Tripura Sundari or Shodasi path. It is santi.

>I like loving people and being agreeable! You probably know this,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Devi Traditions Divine Hinduism

 

 

 

 

Visit your group "" on the web.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Relax. Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

 

 

[Guest guest]

sue mcniel wrote: *** If this is a site for vama-marga please

forgive me for my words about it and let me know through the

moderator; and I won't return to the group. ***

 

This is a site for devotees of Devi in Her many forms by the many

paths that lead to Her. It is explicitly a Hindu group, though a

good number of active members are not Hindus. Their respectful

views, questions and comments are welcome also.

 

This is not explicitly "a site for vama-marga," but that path is

respected here, as are its followers, and you will certainly see

posts of vama persuation. You will also see the Samayachara, the

Dakshinachara, the Kaulachara and the Vamachara traditions

represented here. Sadhaks of all these persuations are welcome,

unless their purpose is to attack, denigrate, insult or make sport

of another path, its gurus, belief systems or followers.

 

It does not follow from this that you have to leave and "not return

to the group." You are welcome to stay; once again, all respectful

devotees of the Devi are welcome. It is obvious that you are a

thoughtful and knowledgeable person, and your leaving would

certainly be a loss to us. But as Gurji Amrita states on the splash

page, our purpose here is simply to "Make information available. Let

people take it or leave it, think it is true or false, judge you as

they think fit. Tell them: 'Come here if you like. Don't come if you

don't like. Only try to see for yourself. Don't blindly accept what

others say.'"

 

*** I have a personal experience with several pratictioners of vama

marga ***

 

Certainly these disgusting and regrettable situations exist, and

yes, certainly in the name of Tantric paths. But as Kochu noted the

other day, there are fakes, charlatans and exploiters in every

faith, the Shakta paths being no exception. A large part of this

group's purpose is to make accurate information available so that

people may educate themselves and avoid these problems.

 

*** Maybe you and I can both work on our attachment together here,

so that we can slowly give up on trying to criticize, humiliate, or

change other people. ***

 

There you go! Who could say no to such a wise and eminently

practical suggestion!?

 

*** Mother Bless and help both of us! ***

 

All of us. ;-)

 

aim mAtangyai namaH

[Guest guest]

This is the crux of the issue. We have all had one, two or more bad experiences.

That does not mean that everyone and everything on the path is bad. It is said:-

“Truth is one, the wise take many paths. IMHO there is no path that is bad. It

is a “path” when it advances one spiritually and it hurts NONE physically

mentally or materially.

This is not a pure vama path group. Here people of ALL paths come contribute

and remain or go. You are welcome.

And Oh!! I forgot to add, there are no Masters and teachers here. Just fellow

travellers. So let's go forward in companionship.

 

 

I have a personal experience with several pratictioners of vama marga, one at

least, who is a well known individual. One of these individuals attempted to use

siddhis of a certain path of the dasa mahavidyas to lure me into this

path--which I was never interested in and quite innocent of. This person lied to

me and tried to trick me into believing that adharma was acceptable and that I

was somehow special enough--they used my own stupid pride and ego-- to walk that

tradition. For me, I found out that it was not what I wanted when I noticed that

the individuals I knew in it were not interested in love, acceptance, helping

the less fortunate; and were more interested in accumulation of siddhis, mantras

and power. This is my experience.

 

 

 

 

sue mcniel <samatmikadevi wrote:

Who am I?

I am a human being with opinions like yours. They may differ. All of our

opinions are based upon different experiences we have had, as well as our chosen

or learned world-view, our culture, our sex, country, universe, etc..

Are we asking "who am I" to be loving and accepting of others, really

interested in the answer, or are we attempting to be confrontational with

others, using traditional vedanta? I am not at the place to do jnana yoga, yet.

I am way for back from that.

If this is a site for vama-marga please forgive me for my words about it

and let me know through the moderator; and I won't return to the group. I was

unaware, and my intention is to learn and help others, not hurt. If that is what

is done here I can only cause more irritation.

As to my comments:

I have a personal experience with several pratictioners of vama marga, one

at least, who is a well known individual. One of these individuals attempted to

use siddhis of a certain path of the dasa mahavidyas to lure me into this

path--which I was never interested in and quite innocent of. This person lied to

me and tried to trick me into believing that adharma was acceptable and that I

was somehow special enough--they used my own stupid pride and ego-- to walk that

tradition. For me, I found out that it was not what I wanted when I noticed that

the individuals I knew in it were not interested in love, acceptance, helping

the less fortunate; and were more interested in accumulation of siddhis, mantras

and power. This is my experience.

A school of thought in the Sri Vidya tradition (not all) is that this path

might be alright for those people who are so strong in themselves and in their

sadhana that they can take that kind of heroic path.Those that do follow it must

accept all consequences for their actions, without fear, even to the point of

jail or death--so I understand. They also do adharma fearlessly (including

hiding the truth or lying.). So I'm told.

This is not for me; and as one praticioner I know of said, that most

persons are not capable of following this path--like walking on a razor's edge.

It was not for me. The Sri Vidya tradition in some circles is that one might

benefit from these paths--not all of Sri Vidya.

If you are a practioner of vama marga, please understand that since I

have had this experience, I have a different experience than you, obviously. If

you are a practioner, I'm sure you are aware of what I am talking about.

The issue of the fourteen years is to my own shame. It is sad that one can

have so many years and so little knowledge and so much more to confront in

oneself. It is really about the purification that I need to able to Love Mother

and serve mankind. Thank goodness that Mother is so kind that she gave me

opportunity to be able to study the Vidya, even though I completely unaware and

unworthy of such a great gift.

As to sattva. I probably was wise in determining I cannot follow

vama-marga due to the fact I have such rajas and attachment to doing dharma and

ahimsa. This I know and you are quite right in pointing this out. However,

anyone who would write here to criticize anyone or anything has an attachment,

or rajas. Maybe you and I can both work on our attachment together here, so that

we can slowly give up on trying to criticize, humiliate, or change other people.

Mother Bless and help both of us!

What others think of me is not my concern. Everyone interprets what

others say and do in context of their own need and path towards their own

self-purification.

What I think of me, may not be all that important either. So much of what

we think about ourselves is just conditioning also.

What I think of my moral actions is important to me at this point. Do I

help others, do I try to be kind, do I try to be truthful?

In my trying to be truthful about different issues: About yoga in the

USA.This is an opinion based on my experience in the USA yogic community for 15

years. I have concerns because the practice of yoga, which I love, is being

harmed here. People and students are being harmed. It is my responsibility to

speak out on these issues. Maybe I have misunderstood and this is not the

correct venue (?)--but I did not post the article that brought up the subject.

I have had or have nothing bad to say about Vivekananda. In fact, I spent

quite alot of time in hanging around one of their ashrams in Visakaputnam, and

learned alot there. I have an immense amount of respect for their tradition. I

don't know where you got that idea?

Badmouthing gurus: whom have I badmouthed? Please name the person. You will

not find one name. I have concerns with actions and teachings.

I love my guru and I also admit to the fault of probably talking too highly

and too much of him--another fault of mine is to put people up on pedestles,

which I'm sure is something more to work on.

Well, I hope I have cleared up some of these things and have said things

in a positive and helpful way. Hopefully, we can be kind and try to learn and

help each other not let misunderstandings thwart us.

Love through her,

 

Samatmika

 

 

mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha wrote:

Nora mentionend in another postING about the necessity to ask and

explain: Who am I?

 

I like to add to this some other Questions that go with the first and

which my guru taught are very important also.

I like to share them with you:

these are:

 

"Who do i think i am?"

 

and the another Question:

 

"What do others think of me?"

 

and the 4th question:

 

"Does this picture I have of myself differ from what others think of

me?"

 

and

 

"Why does it differ?"

 

The Opinion you have of yourself differs considerably from the

impression you make on me.

First difference : You think you can guide others while i think you are in need

of very basic guidance yourself.

 

Second: You think you are loving and agreeable, but i have the

impression that you have not been agreeable and you have not been loving. On the

contrary: You have talked bad about other paths,(the Vamamarga) which you seem

to know know only by hearsay, and other teachers also, of Vamamarga and Vedanta

in another posting (Teachers Who teach, and have taught Self Knowledge in the

USA, which include most eminent saints like Vivekananda)

 

So from the very beginning of your appeareance on this list you have been

praising your knowledge and those of your teacher, and have been talking

negative about other Upasakas teachers and teachings.

thats why i consider you are not in a position to give advice but badly in need

of basic guidance.

It is basic in SriVidya that the devi can be reached by both path kaula and

Samaya thats why bad mouthing other upasakas and paths is considered

inappropriate behaviour (to say the least) you should know this after 14 years

of practice .

 

MAHAHRADANATH

 

, sue mcniel <samatmikadevi

wrote:

I happen to follow the Tripura Sundari or Shodasi path. It is santi.I like

loving people and being agreeable! You probably know this,

 

 

 

Relax. Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

 

 

[Guest guest]

Interesting rewarding experiences. Rewarding in the sense that you

were able to realize yourself and was guided to the path right for you

with HER help.

 

As the moderators of this group (DB, Kochu and Nora are) have

clarified to you that this group is for all who chose/guided to be

here - not restricted to practitioners of certain path alone, I will

encourage you to keep posting here.

 

As to your reply to the questions raised, it is one of the most

sincere replies, stating your feelings, causes and owning up.

 

Recently we (in this group) had had the aquaintence of a few

individuals trying to cloak some vilification of one path (one guess

is enough as to which one it is) in extolling virtues of others. So

the initial cautious questions were raised.

 

I read through your earlier posting, which was the stimulus to the

queries. While you stated that "if" the practioners of vama marga

chose to......that "if" meant a lot (at least to me) in stating that

you do not see all the practitioners of vama marga as egocentric

individuals.

>From my experiences, I have come across a few individuals of vedic

path also practicing controlling of individuals and doing all unholy

things not worth mentioning here. Also, have seen practitioners of

same path helping others in many ways. It is the path that chooses the

practitioner. What the practioner chooses to do with the practices is

HER doing - no one here in this World knows/understands what HER

wishes are - in the first instant. I will tell you a recent experience

of mine.

 

I unwillingly parted with something close to my heart due to some

circumstances. I was wondering what I did was right. The answer came

in one of your earlier postings. I never asked the question here.....

but SHE cleared the hint of doubt in my mind - through an explicit

answer from someone who I have no knowledge about. Thanks.

 

I found a gem in all the pieces of glass dropped here, paraphrasing

what Nora often mentions.

 

G

 

, sue mcniel <samatmikadevi

wrote:

>

> Who am I?

> I am a human being with opinions like yours. They may differ.

All of our opinions are based upon different experiences we have had,

as well as our chosen or learned world-view, our culture, our sex,

country, universe, etc..

> Are we asking "who am I" to be loving and accepting of

others, really interested in the answer, or are we attempting to be

confrontational with others, using traditional vedanta? I am not at

the place to do jnana yoga, yet. I am way for back from that.

> If this is a site for vama-marga please forgive me for my

words about it and let me know through the moderator; and I won't

return to the group. I was unaware, and my intention is to learn and

help others, not hurt. If that is what is done here I can only cause

more irritation.

> As to my comments:

> I have a personal experience with several pratictioners of

vama marga, one at least, who is a well known individual. One of these

individuals attempted to use siddhis of a certain path of the dasa

mahavidyas to lure me into this path--which I was never interested in

and quite innocent of. This person lied to me and tried to trick me

into believing that adharma was acceptable and that I was somehow

special enough--they used my own stupid pride and ego-- to walk that

tradition. For me, I found out that it was not what I wanted when I

noticed that the individuals I knew in it were not interested in love,

acceptance, helping the less fortunate; and were more interested in

accumulation of siddhis, mantras and power. This is my experience.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for answering

Look for my replies in the following text.

, sue mcniel <samatmikadevi

wrote:

>

> Who am I?

> I am a human being with opinions like yours. They may

>differ. All of our opinions are based upon different

>experiences we have had, as well as our chosen or learned world-

>view, our culture, our sex, country, universe, etc..

> Are we asking "who am I" to be loving and accepting of

>others, really interested in the answer, or are we

>attempting to be confrontational with others, using traditional

>vedanta? I am not at the place to do jnana yoga,

>yet. I am way for back from that.

 

 

I thought sharing my Gurus Questions could be profitable, and i was

interested in your reaction.

 

> If this is a site for vama-marga please forgive me for my

>return to the group. I was unaware, and my intention is to learn and

>help others, not hurt. If that is what is done here I can only cause

>more irritation.

 

Of course I agree with both Devi Bhakta and Kochujis comment, all

paths are welcome.

To summarize we are here to learn, but with respect towards all

different paths.

I don´t think there is anything called Hinduism.

But the moderators insist that this is a Hindu list and i respect

that, so i try to stay on topic even if this means that i do restrict

my comments to fit this definition.

> As to my comments:

> I have a personal experience with several pratictioners of

>vama marga, one at least, who is a well known individual. One of

>these individuals attempted to use siddhis of a certain path of the

>dasa mahavidyas to lure me into this path--which I was never

>interested in and quite innocent of. This person lied to me and

>tried to trick me into believing that adharma was acceptable and

>that I was somehow special enough--they used my own

>stupid pride and ego-- to walk that tradition. For me, I found out

>that it was not what I wanted when I noticed that the individuals I

>knew in it were not interested in love, acceptance, helping the less

>fortunate; and were more

>interested in accumulation of siddhis, mantras and power. This is my

>experience.

 

Unfortunately there are cheaters and liars in every path. This list

suffers most often from the attacks of the orthodox and there is very

little disturbance from those who are after siddhis only. But as you

rightfully remarked everybody has his or her own set of experiences.

 

You have suffered from people professing to be Vamacharis, i suffered

from witch hunts.

> A school of thought in the Sri Vidya tradition (not all) is

>that this path might be alright for those people who

>are so strong in themselves and in their sadhana that they can take

>that kind of heroic path.Those that do follow

>it must accept all consequences for their actions, without fear,

>even to the point of jail or death--so I understand.

>They also do adharma fearlessly (including hiding the truth or

>lying.). So I'm told.

 

Everybody has to take responsibility for their actions no matter what

path he treads. Any path can lead to death and jail, vamachara not

more than any other, it all depends on the individual following it.

 

Fear is good if it prevents you from destructive actions, bad if it

impedes your progress.

> This is not for me; and as one praticioner I know of said,

>that most persons are not capable of following

>this path--like walking on a razor's edge. It was not for me. The

>Sri Vidya tradition in some circles is that one

>might benefit from these paths--not all of Sri Vidya.

 

Because both path are mentionend even in the Lalita Sahasranama it

is accepted as a legitimate path for those that meet the

requirements, as is with any other path, the person and the path must

correspond with each other. If a path is helpful or not depends on

the person AND the path.

> If you are a practioner of vama marga, please understand

>that since I have had this experience, I have a different experience

>than you, obviously. If you are a practioner, I'm sure you are aware

>of what I am talking about.

 

I am aware that you believe that you are talking about the vamamarga

or kaulachara but you are talking about some special class of

misguided tantrics only.

 

The deeds of misguided Vamacharis are not more worse than those of

the misguided orthodox.

 

You are different from the impression you made on me, you are

different from the picture you have of yourself.

Consider the possibilty that Kaula and Vamarga is different from the

impression you have received.

> The issue of the fourteen years is to my own shame. It is sad

>that one can have so many years and so little

>knowledge and so much more to confront in oneself. It is really

>about the purification that I need to able to Love

>Mother and serve mankind. Thank goodness that Mother is so kind that

>she gave me opportunity to be able to

>study the Vidya, even though I completely unaware and unworthy of

>such a great gift.

 

Yes you are unworthy (<---- true vamachari lie )

> As to sattva. I probably was wise in determining I cannot

>follow vama-marga due to the fact I have such

>rajas and attachment to doing dharma and ahimsa. This I know and you

>are quite right in pointing this out.

>However, anyone who would write here to criticize anyone or anything

>has an attachment, or rajas. Maybe you

>and I can both work on our attachment together here, so that we can

>slowly give up on trying to criticize,

>humiliate, or change other people. Mother Bless and help both of us!

 

No i dont mean to change anyone,or anyones path, i only tried

pointing, out amongst other things, that self awareness is not bad

but helpful. Awareness implies watching only and accepting what is.

Doing that I accept your offer. I was probing only, i did not mean to

criticize, and i am glad you where sincere enough to trust me with

your explicit answer.

> What others think of me is not my concern. Everyone

>interprets what others say and do in context of their

>own need and path towards their own self-purification.

> What I think of me, may not be all that important either. So

>much of what we think about ourselves is justconditioning also.

 

Give those questions a second chance, just watch this interaction, it

is not about changing yourself because of what others think, it is

simply about self awareness. Watch the causes and effect of your

actions they include the reaction of others to what you do, are, and

think you are. This maybe worthwhile.

> What I think of my moral actions is important to me at this

>point. Do I help others, do I try to be kind, do I try to be

>truthful?

Yes and that is where you maybe failed ....(to be helpful)

> In my trying to be truthful about different issues: About

>yoga in the USA.This is an opinion based on my

>experience in the USA yogic community for 15 years. I have concerns

>because the practice of yoga, which I love, is being harmed here.

>People and students are being harmed. It is my responsibility to

>speak out on these issues. Maybe I have misunderstood and this is

>not the correct venue (?)--but I did not post the article that

>brought up the subject.

 

But this should not be your concern, you should be concerned about

presenting and perfecting your own Yoga, by radiating your own light

you need not dimish other persons, you might end up trying to dimish

a light that is much greater than yours while you could have spethis

tme in an effort to perfect yourself.

 

Criticizing others is not only a waste of time but you might find out

later that you harmend something or someone that has been very

helpful and beautiful for other people, only because of your own

ignorance. So if you have high moral standards it is your duty to

abstain from sectarianism.

 

Opinions we have do change with time depending on our progress, i

have now been studying spiritual matters and yoga for more than 30

years but i am able to waste, (waste is insider joke ), more than

30 years (*grin*) now. My opinion on mayn subjects in yoga has

changend during that time and now i consider some teachers i was very

opposed to 20 years ago as very valuable and great teachers. But

Maybe one has to grow old to realise how the flow of time does limit

our understanding and how our "virtues" of yesterday can turn into

todays "vices".

i WAS criticing them in public myself, and i thought

they "harmtrue" Yoga. Been there, got that T shirt.

> I have had or have nothing bad to say about Vivekananda. In

>fact, I spent quite alot of time in hanging around one of their

>ashrams in Visakaputnam, and learned alot there. I have an immense

>amount of respect for their tradition. I don't know where you got

>that idea?

 

Because he was the one who introduced Hinduism by mainly teaching

self awareness in the USA. You where writing criticisms against

those kind of teachers.

> Badmouthing gurus: whom have I badmouthed? Please name the

>person. You will not find one name. I have concerns with actions and

>teachings.

 

You did not name them, it makes your postinng more suspectible

according to my moral standards. You have said "i do not name them"

in one of your posts. If nobody is namend everybody can agree. Such

an action can only serve upholding wrong values by pointing at a

nameless evil, a scapegoat so to say. But in the end there will be

real persons that have to take the impact of the careless intolerant

word or thought. People can easier agree on an anonymous evil like

witches, racism, fake gurus, colored people or jews, muslims and

christians, vamacharis or whatever one chooses, to name the

scapegoat, but in the end a real innocent person might get burnend

or stonend or in other ways harmend.

 

You might say that was not my fault, i only warned about that "evil",

others harmend that vamachari, colored person, jew, christian, muslim

etc, but is this true? Is it not better to abstain from ALL acts and

thoughts of intolerance and stop all accusations?

> I love my guru and I also admit to the fault of probably

>talking too highly and too much of him--another fault of mine is to

>put people up on pedestles, which I'm sure is something more to work

>on.

 

There is nothing wrong in praising ones guru, if one is not

disparaging others at the same time, this is very simple psychology,

if you say to your neighbor look how nice my house is, and see how

dirty and old yours is, look how nice my clothes are and look how

dirty and old yours are, you can expect some doubts, especially if

your are new in the neighbourhood.

> Well, I hope I have cleared up some of these things and have

>said things in a positive and helpful way.

>Hopefully, we can be kind and try to learn and help each other not

>let misunderstandings thwart us.

 

You did your best, and i see no reason why we should not profit from

discussion, we only need trust in the good intentions of those that

take part in the discussion and if we are completly satisfied with

our own path we will not pay attention to the faults of other path or

persons and will not advertise our own.

I can extend this trust to Upasakas of the Dakshinachara and

Samayachara, you must decide for yourself if you can or want to

extend that trust to Kaulas and Vamacharis.

This is ones own decision, there always will be followers of

vamachara who consider dakshinachara a misguided distortion but more

often it is the other way around.

 

Mahahradanatha

 

> Love through her,

>

> Samatmika

>

>

> mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha wrote:

> Nora mentionend in another postING about the necessity to ask and

> explain: Who am I?

>

> I like to add to this some other Questions that go with the first

and

> which my guru taught are very important also.

> I like to share them with you:

> these are:

>

> "Who do i think i am?"

>

> and the another Question:

>

> "What do others think of me?"

>

> and the 4th question:

>

> "Does this picture I have of myself differ from what others think

of

> me?"

>

> and

>

> "Why does it differ?"

>

> The Opinion you have of yourself differs considerably from the

> impression you make on me.

> First difference : You think you can guide others while i think you

> are in need of very basic guidance yourself.

>

> Second: You think you are loving and agreeable, but i have the

> impression that you have not been agreeable and you have not been

> loving. On the contrary: You have talked bad about other paths,(the

> Vamamarga) which you seem to know know only by hearsay, and other

> teachers also, of Vamamarga and Vedanta in another posting

(Teachers

> Who teach, and have taught Self Knowledge in the USA, which

include

> most eminent saints like Vivekananda)

>

> So from the very beginning of your appeareance on this list you

have

> been praising your knowledge and those of your teacher, and have

> been talking negative about other Upasakas teachers and teachings.

> thats why i consider you are not in a position to give advice but

> badly in need of basic guidance.

> It is basic in SriVidya that the devi can be reached by both path

> kaula and Samaya thats why bad mouthing other upasakas and paths

is

> considered inappropriate behaviour (to say the least) you should

know

> this after 14 years of practice .

>

> MAHAHRADANATH

>

> , sue mcniel <samatmikadevi@>

> wrote:

> > I happen to follow the Tripura Sundari or Shodasi path. It is

santi.

> >I like loving people and being agreeable! You probably know this,

>

>

> Devi Traditions Divine Hinduism

>

>

>

>

>

> Visit your group "" on the web.

>

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Relax. Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I too offer my deepest felt gratitude to the people who have created Shakti

Sadhana. I consider myself very very fortunate to be living in this time when

this site exists and have so many gurus here from whose lotus feet I can learn.

 

Thank you Sweetest Kali !

 

Jai Kali !

 

Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta wrote:

 

This is a site for devotees of Devi in Her many forms by the many

paths that lead to Her. It is explicitly a Hindu group, though a

good number of active members are not Hindus. Their respectful

views, questions and comments are welcome also.

 

This is not explicitly "a site for vama-marga," but that path is

respected here, as are its followers, and you will certainly see

posts of vama persuation. You will also see the Samayachara, the

Dakshinachara, the Kaulachara and the Vamachara traditions

represented here. Sadhaks of all these persuations are welcome,

unless their purpose is to attack, denigrate, insult or make sport

of another path, its gurus, belief systems or followers.

 

It does not follow from this that you have to leave and "not return

to the group." You are welcome to stay; once again, all respectful

devotees of the Devi are welcome. It is obvious that you are a

thoughtful and knowledgeable person, and your leaving would

certainly be a loss to us. But as Gurji Amrita states on the splash

page, our purpose here is simply to "Make information available. Let

people take it or leave it, think it is true or false, judge you as

they think fit. Tell them: 'Come here if you like. Don't come if you

don't like. Only try to see for yourself. Don't blindly accept what

others say.'"

 

*** I have a personal experience with several pratictioners of vama

marga ***

 

Certainly these disgusting and regrettable situations exist, and

yes, certainly in the name of Tantric paths. But as Kochu noted the

other day, there are fakes, charlatans and exploiters in every

faith, the Shakta paths being no exception. A large part of this

group's purpose is to make accurate information available so that

people may educate themselves and avoid these problems.

 

*** Maybe you and I can both work on our attachment together here,

so that we can slowly give up on trying to criticize, humiliate, or

change other people. ***

 

There you go! Who could say no to such a wise and eminently

practical suggestion!?

 

*** Mother Bless and help both of us! ***

 

All of us. ;-)

 

aim mAtangyai namaH