The Four Traditions of Srividya [Part 2]

[Guest guest]

KAULACHARA: Worship Focused in the Body

 

Samayachara and Dakshinachara traditions are, in the main, not very

controversial; nearly any religious system could approve. But the

Kaulachara marks a place where some people begin to get

uncomfortable. Because here the focus turns to the human body itself

as the microcosm that allows us to interface with the Macrocosm.

Here is where we come face to face with the reality of Tantra –

which is neither luridly "sexy" (as its Western "practitioners"

would have it) nor decadently debased (as its Eastern critics

claim). Tantra is not a religion; it is a methodology that can (but

need not) be used in approaching many religious systems within

Hinduism and Buddhism.

 

You see, the central theme of Tantra has nothing to do with sex or

booze; instead it is the seamless web – the idea of the absolute

interrelatedness – and ultimate Oneness -- of all things that exist,

seen or unseen. Stepping down a peg, the main practical corollary of

all this is the Macrocosmic/Microcosmic parallel – that life on the

micro-level (individual lives and acts) can be used to extrapolate

an understanding of life on the Macro (cosmic and divine) level (and

vice versa). Stepping down a final peg from theory to practice, we

may add that this basic web of beliefs is realized through powerful

ritual acts involving body, speech and mind.

 

The Kaulachara "toolbox" does indeed include such sensational

rituals as the panchamakara, the yoni puja and so on. But such

rituals are, in fact, "exotics" – used once in a great while by some

sadhaks in some circumstances, and by many others not at all.

Perhaps the most common "body worship" acts in Kaulachara are the

nyasas, which are totally unobjectionable – making the Christian

sign of the cross is a type of nyasa, for goodness' sake.

 

In the Kaulachara tradition, the idol is replaced by a living woman

or a man or a couple. You can also think of Her as the Union of

Shiva and Shakti. You can worship Her as a woman, as a man, or as

both. There are no restrictions in this regard. When we give Her a

bath, we not only chant the Durga and Lakshmi Suktams; we also chant

the Purusha Suktam and the Rudram. The word "She" contains the

word "He". So you need not worry that you are only worshiping the

Mother Goddess and ignoring the Father God. You are worshiping both.

 

In the Kaulachara tradition, the notion of the self is completely

negated. You see everyone as yourself. You invoke the Goddess into

your spouse, into the suvasini or into anyone. You yourself become

the Goddess in the Viraja homa, even as you are worshiping Her. That

is why it is said that Kaulas accumulate no karma – it is not a

boast, but a logical result when one sheds the "self" to which karma

generally attaches itself.

 

There can be no sense of shame in this process. That is why

Dattatreya is known as Digambara, the Naked One. Dattatreya

Digambara is one of the great mantras of Dattatreya. Shridi Sai

Baba, Satya Sai Baba, Paramahamsa Yogananda, Ganapati Sacchidananda –

all of these teachers come from the Dattatreya tradition.

 

It is worth noting here that the Kaulachara follow all three

concepts, one progressing into the next, starting as Kaulas and then

later internalizing everything; external worship ends, becoming more

dakshina or samaya in nature – but the achara remains Kaula. Cp.

Lalita Sahasranama: "samayachara talpara."

 

VAMACHARA

 

The last Achara is called the Vamachara tradition. In contrast to

the other three Acharas described here – which are based on the

worship of the protective, nourishing, healing kind of aspects of

the Divine – the Vamachara tradition worships the terrible aspects

of the Divine, the laya pradhana, where dissolution is the main

aspect. It is dissolution of the upasaka into the ultimate,

resulting in absolute merger.

 

It is the Vamachara tradition that employs, among other things,

rituals in the cremation grounds. There you will find vairagya,

complete detachment. One's energy leaves the Visshudi Chakra, going

up to the Command Centers and never coming down. It is very

difficult to arrive at these centers without passing through the

lower chakras. For example, until one has experienced Anahata

Chakra, the heart center, to arrive at the Ajna Center is very

dangerous: One will experience an inordinate number of fears that

cannot be shaken off. One cannot be given the astra vidyas, the so-

called "atom bomb" mantras and teachings -- because atom bombs can't

be put into the hands of crazy people.

 

Suffice it to say that the Vamachara path is very dangerous without

a proper guru. The aghoris are Vamacharis. Some Vamacharis do use

their energies for healing. One we know in Benares uses his healing

energy to cure the lepers etc. Normally we like to think of God in

the beautiful sense; but the Vamacharis prefer to think of God in

the terrible sense.

 

aim mAtangyai namaH

[Guest guest]

Hi D.B.

Beautifully explained. All these traditions have the sanction of

Sastras -- so no question that anyone occidental or oriental can look down

with disdain on some of the treaditions, though it's a fact the word Tantra and

Tantric evokes bad connotations among the laity. Lalitasahasranama which we

consider a part of mantrasastra, meaning, every name of Lalita in the

sahasranama is a mantra, proclaims "savya-apasavya margastha,

sarvapadvinivarini". both the paths, righthanded and lefthanded with their

subdivisions, are sanctioned by Lalita herself and she protects the

practitioners from all evils and obstacles. She is also samayachara tatpara.

"Pashu, veera, daiva - upasita and upasya" words within this quote are mine.

 

The unintiated can simply recite Soundaryalahari and Lalitasahasranama sitting

in front of a pratima of Devi or Srichakra; in due course the Devi will lead the

Sadhaka to proper initiation. Rites are basically for chittashuddhi. It's like

clearing the soot from the glass so the light shines forth. Devi is already in

the dahara-akasha, she is not to be attained from some extra-terrestrail space,

rather only to be re-membered within oneself.

 

Thanks in deed once again for your exposition which will be useful to many not

brought up in the tradition.

 

Om Namastripurasundari.

[Guest guest]

Dear Radhakrishnan:

 

Thank you for your kind words as well as your excellent additional

comments.

 

DB

 

, Radhakrishnan J

<jayaarshree wrote:

>

> Hi D.B.

> Beautifully explained. All these traditions have the sanction of

> Sastras -- so no question that anyone occidental or oriental can

look down with disdain on some of the treaditions, though it's a

fact the word Tantra and Tantric evokes bad connotations among the

laity. Lalitasahasranama which we consider a part of mantrasastra,

meaning, every name of Lalita in the sahasranama is a mantra,

proclaims "savya-apasavya margastha, sarvapadvinivarini". both the

paths, righthanded and lefthanded with their subdivisions, are

sanctioned by Lalita herself and she protects the practitioners from

all evils and obstacles. She is also samayachara tatpara. "Pashu,

veera, daiva - upasita and upasya" words within this quote are mine.

>

> The unintiated can simply recite Soundaryalahari and

Lalitasahasranama sitting in front of a pratima of Devi or

Srichakra; in due course the Devi will lead the Sadhaka to proper

initiation. Rites are basically for chittashuddhi. It's like

clearing the soot from the glass so the light shines forth. Devi is

already in the dahara-akasha, she is not to be attained from some

extra-terrestrail space, rather only to be re-membered within

oneself.

>

> Thanks in deed once again for your exposition which will be

useful to many not brought up in the tradition.

>

> Om Namastripurasundari.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear DB

The task of writing an essay on the different tantric paths is such a

complicated matter with so many differing and sometimes opposing

viewpoints that do exist, even in the Agamas and Nigamas themselves,

if one decides to analyse the current use and misuse of all of the

relevant terms, the task becomes overwhelming.

I admire your courage to begin this topic at all and i think it is

an excellent essay, but because of the reasons mentioned it can never

be complete or flawless because of the widely differing views.

The Distinctions are of course not always clear cut.

According to my Information vamachara traditions are not centered

around fierce deities only.

All kinds of non-fierce deity traditions are (or where present in

the past) in the Vamachara besides Sridevi, because some of these

sects are nearly extinct this is not so well known. There are

worshippers of ucchista Ganapati that are vamacharins founded by

Herambasuta, but there exists also vamachara traditions that center

around kumara (muruga), vishnu, lakshmi, bala sundari, and

Shodasi. Lord jagannatha and Vimala are also worshipped by vaishnava

vamacharins. In these Vaishnava traditions of lord jaganath sri

yantra is employed. In Puri is the Pitha (holy seat) of those

traditions this is mentionend in Rudrayamala and many other tantras.

Of course many sadhu traditions are more or less closely related to

the vamachara like the Aghori, Kapalika, and Nath panth that do not

worship exclusively the fierce forms of Shiva. Adinath the main form

of shiva worshipped by Nath Panth for instance is not a fierce form

of Shiva, though fierce forms like Kalabhairava are worshipped side

by side with bala sundari. Siddhanta Vamachara and Kaulachara is

present within these traditions

Mahahradanatha

 

, "Devi Bhakta"

<devi_bhakta wrote:

>

> KAULACHARA: Worship Focused in the Body

>

> Samayachara and Dakshinachara traditions are, in the main, not very

> controversial; nearly any religious system could approve. But the

> Kaulachara marks a place where some people begin to get

> uncomfortable. Because here the focus turns to the human body

itself

> as the microcosm that allows us to interface with the Macrocosm.

> Here is where we come face to face with the reality of Tantra –

> which is neither luridly "sexy" (as its Western "practitioners"

> would have it) nor decadently debased (as its Eastern critics

> claim). Tantra is not a religion; it is a methodology that can (but

> need not) be used in approaching many religious systems within

> Hinduism and Buddhism.

>

> You see, the central theme of Tantra has nothing to do with sex or

> booze; instead it is the seamless web – the idea of the absolute

> interrelatedness – and ultimate Oneness -- of all things that

exist,

> seen or unseen. Stepping down a peg, the main practical corollary

of

> all this is the Macrocosmic/Microcosmic parallel – that life on the

> micro-level (individual lives and acts) can be used to extrapolate

> an understanding of life on the Macro (cosmic and divine) level

(and

> vice versa). Stepping down a final peg from theory to practice, we

> may add that this basic web of beliefs is realized through powerful

> ritual acts involving body, speech and mind.

>

> The Kaulachara "toolbox" does indeed include such sensational

> rituals as the panchamakara, the yoni puja and so on. But such

> rituals are, in fact, "exotics" – used once in a great while by

some

> sadhaks in some circumstances, and by many others not at all.

> Perhaps the most common "body worship" acts in Kaulachara are the

> nyasas, which are totally unobjectionable – making the Christian

> sign of the cross is a type of nyasa, for goodness' sake.

>

> In the Kaulachara tradition, the idol is replaced by a living woman

> or a man or a couple. You can also think of Her as the Union of

> Shiva and Shakti. You can worship Her as a woman, as a man, or as

> both. There are no restrictions in this regard. When we give Her a

> bath, we not only chant the Durga and Lakshmi Suktams; we also

chant

> the Purusha Suktam and the Rudram. The word "She" contains the

> word "He". So you need not worry that you are only worshiping the

> Mother Goddess and ignoring the Father God. You are worshiping

both.

>

> In the Kaulachara tradition, the notion of the self is completely

> negated. You see everyone as yourself. You invoke the Goddess into

> your spouse, into the suvasini or into anyone. You yourself become

> the Goddess in the Viraja homa, even as you are worshiping Her.

That

> is why it is said that Kaulas accumulate no karma – it is not a

> boast, but a logical result when one sheds the "self" to which

karma

> generally attaches itself.

>

> There can be no sense of shame in this process. That is why

> Dattatreya is known as Digambara, the Naked One. Dattatreya

> Digambara is one of the great mantras of Dattatreya. Shridi Sai

> Baba, Satya Sai Baba, Paramahamsa Yogananda, Ganapati

Sacchidananda –

> all of these teachers come from the Dattatreya tradition.

>

> It is worth noting here that the Kaulachara follow all three

> concepts, one progressing into the next, starting as Kaulas and

then

> later internalizing everything; external worship ends, becoming

more

> dakshina or samaya in nature – but the achara remains Kaula. Cp.

> Lalita Sahasranama: "samayachara talpara."

>

> VAMACHARA

>

> The last Achara is called the Vamachara tradition. In contrast to

> the other three Acharas described here – which are based on the

> worship of the protective, nourishing, healing kind of aspects of

> the Divine – the Vamachara tradition worships the terrible aspects

> of the Divine, the laya pradhana, where dissolution is the main

> aspect. It is dissolution of the upasaka into the ultimate,

> resulting in absolute merger.

>

> It is the Vamachara tradition that employs, among other things,

> rituals in the cremation grounds. There you will find vairagya,

> complete detachment. One's energy leaves the Visshudi Chakra, going

> up to the Command Centers and never coming down. It is very

> difficult to arrive at these centers without passing through the

> lower chakras. For example, until one has experienced Anahata

> Chakra, the heart center, to arrive at the Ajna Center is very

> dangerous: One will experience an inordinate number of fears that

> cannot be shaken off. One cannot be given the astra vidyas, the so-

> called "atom bomb" mantras and teachings -- because atom bombs

can't

> be put into the hands of crazy people.

>

> Suffice it to say that the Vamachara path is very dangerous without

> a proper guru. The aghoris are Vamacharis. Some Vamacharis do use

> their energies for healing. One we know in Benares uses his healing

> energy to cure the lepers etc. Normally we like to think of God in

> the beautiful sense; but the Vamacharis prefer to think of God in

> the terrible sense.

>

> aim mAtangyai namaH

>

[Guest guest]

I fully agree. But I must say that the traditions like uchishta ganapati still

exist.

 

mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha wrote: Dear DB

The task of writing an essay on the different tantric paths is such a

complicated matter with so many differing and sometimes opposing

viewpoints that do exist, even in the Agamas and Nigamas themselves,

if one decides to analyse the current use and misuse of all of the

relevant terms, the task becomes overwhelming.

I admire your courage to begin this topic at all and i think it is

an excellent essay, but because of the reasons mentioned it can never

be complete or flawless because of the widely differing views.

The Distinctions are of course not always clear cut.

According to my Information vamachara traditions are not centered

around fierce deities only.

All kinds of non-fierce deity traditions are (or where present in

the past) in the Vamachara besides Sridevi, because some of these

sects are nearly extinct this is not so well known. There are

worshippers of ucchista Ganapati that are vamacharins founded by

Herambasuta, but there exists also vamachara traditions that center

around kumara (muruga), vishnu, lakshmi, bala sundari, and

Shodasi. Lord jagannatha and Vimala are also worshipped by vaishnava

vamacharins. In these Vaishnava traditions of lord jaganath sri

yantra is employed. In Puri is the Pitha (holy seat) of those

traditions this is mentionend in Rudrayamala and many other tantras.

Of course many sadhu traditions are more or less closely related to

the vamachara like the Aghori, Kapalika, and Nath panth that do not

worship exclusively the fierce forms of Shiva. Adinath the main form

of shiva worshipped by Nath Panth for instance is not a fierce form

of Shiva, though fierce forms like Kalabhairava are worshipped side

by side with bala sundari. Siddhanta Vamachara and Kaulachara is

present within these traditions

Mahahradanatha

 

, "Devi Bhakta"

<devi_bhakta wrote:

>

> KAULACHARA: Worship Focused in the Body

>

> Samayachara and Dakshinachara traditions are, in the main, not very

> controversial; nearly any religious system could approve. But the

> Kaulachara marks a place where some people begin to get

> uncomfortable. Because here the focus turns to the human body

itself

> as the microcosm that allows us to interface with the Macrocosm.

> Here is where we come face to face with the reality of Tantra –

> which is neither luridly "sexy" (as its Western "practitioners"

> would have it) nor decadently debased (as its Eastern critics

> claim). Tantra is not a religion; it is a methodology that can (but

> need not) be used in approaching many religious systems within

> Hinduism and Buddhism.

>

> You see, the central theme of Tantra has nothing to do with sex or

> booze; instead it is the seamless web – the idea of the absolute

> interrelatedness – and ultimate Oneness -- of all things that

exist,

> seen or unseen. Stepping down a peg, the main practical corollary

of

> all this is the Macrocosmic/Microcosmic parallel – that life on the

> micro-level (individual lives and acts) can be used to extrapolate

> an understanding of life on the Macro (cosmic and divine) level

(and

> vice versa). Stepping down a final peg from theory to practice, we

> may add that this basic web of beliefs is realized through powerful

> ritual acts involving body, speech and mind.

>

> The Kaulachara "toolbox" does indeed include such sensational

> rituals as the panchamakara, the yoni puja and so on. But such

> rituals are, in fact, "exotics" – used once in a great while by

some

> sadhaks in some circumstances, and by many others not at all.

> Perhaps the most common "body worship" acts in Kaulachara are the

> nyasas, which are totally unobjectionable – making the Christian

> sign of the cross is a type of nyasa, for goodness' sake.

>

> In the Kaulachara tradition, the idol is replaced by a living woman

> or a man or a couple. You can also think of Her as the Union of

> Shiva and Shakti. You can worship Her as a woman, as a man, or as

> both. There are no restrictions in this regard. When we give Her a

> bath, we not only chant the Durga and Lakshmi Suktams; we also

chant

> the Purusha Suktam and the Rudram. The word "She" contains the

> word "He". So you need not worry that you are only worshiping the

> Mother Goddess and ignoring the Father God. You are worshiping

both.

>

> In the Kaulachara tradition, the notion of the self is completely

> negated. You see everyone as yourself. You invoke the Goddess into

> your spouse, into the suvasini or into anyone. You yourself become

> the Goddess in the Viraja homa, even as you are worshiping Her.

That

> is why it is said that Kaulas accumulate no karma – it is not a

> boast, but a logical result when one sheds the "self" to which

karma

> generally attaches itself.

>

> There can be no sense of shame in this process. That is why

> Dattatreya is known as Digambara, the Naked One. Dattatreya

> Digambara is one of the great mantras of Dattatreya. Shridi Sai

> Baba, Satya Sai Baba, Paramahamsa Yogananda, Ganapati

Sacchidananda –

> all of these teachers come from the Dattatreya tradition.

>

> It is worth noting here that the Kaulachara follow all three

> concepts, one progressing into the next, starting as Kaulas and

then

> later internalizing everything; external worship ends, becoming

more

> dakshina or samaya in nature – but the achara remains Kaula. Cp.

> Lalita Sahasranama: "samayachara talpara."

>

> VAMACHARA

>

> The last Achara is called the Vamachara tradition. In contrast to

> the other three Acharas described here – which are based on the

> worship of the protective, nourishing, healing kind of aspects of

> the Divine – the Vamachara tradition worships the terrible aspects

> of the Divine, the laya pradhana, where dissolution is the main

> aspect. It is dissolution of the upasaka into the ultimate,

> resulting in absolute merger.

>

> It is the Vamachara tradition that employs, among other things,

> rituals in the cremation grounds. There you will find vairagya,

> complete detachment. One's energy leaves the Visshudi Chakra, going

> up to the Command Centers and never coming down. It is very

> difficult to arrive at these centers without passing through the

> lower chakras. For example, until one has experienced Anahata

> Chakra, the heart center, to arrive at the Ajna Center is very

> dangerous: One will experience an inordinate number of fears that

> cannot be shaken off. One cannot be given the astra vidyas, the so-

> called "atom bomb" mantras and teachings -- because atom bombs

can't

> be put into the hands of crazy people.

>

> Suffice it to say that the Vamachara path is very dangerous without

> a proper guru. The aghoris are Vamacharis. Some Vamacharis do use

> their energies for healing. One we know in Benares uses his healing

> energy to cure the lepers etc. Normally we like to think of God in

> the beautiful sense; but the Vamacharis prefer to think of God in

> the terrible sense.

>

> aim mAtangyai namaH

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Devi Bakta,

 

I am pleased with your exposition but did you say it right when you said I

qoute:

 

< Stepping down a peg, the main practical corollary of ....

 

isn't that "Stepping down on a knife ..." as it is considered the path in

Tantra ?

I am just asking is it "peg" or "knife" ?

 

Dave

 

--------------------------------

 

 

 

 

Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta wrote:

KAULACHARA: Worship Focused in the Body

 

Samayachara and Dakshinachara traditions are, in the main, not very

controversial; nearly any religious system could approve. But the

Kaulachara marks a place where some people begin to get

uncomfortable. Because here the focus turns to the human body itself

as the microcosm that allows us to interface with the Macrocosm.

Here is where we come face to face with the reality of Tantra –

which is neither luridly "sexy" (as its Western "practitioners"

would have it) nor decadently debased (as its Eastern critics

claim). Tantra is not a religion; it is a methodology that can (but

need not) be used in approaching many religious systems within

Hinduism and Buddhism.

 

You see, the central theme of Tantra has nothing to do with sex or

booze; instead it is the seamless web – the idea of the absolute

interrelatedness – and ultimate Oneness -- of all things that exist,

seen or unseen. Stepping down a peg, the main practical corollary of

all this is the Macrocosmic/Microcosmic parallel – that life on the

micro-level (individual lives and acts) can be used to extrapolate

an understanding of life on the Macro (cosmic and divine) level (and

vice versa). Stepping down a final peg from theory to practice, we

may add that this basic web of beliefs is realized through powerful

ritual acts involving body, speech and mind.

 

The Kaulachara "toolbox" does indeed include such sensational

rituals as the panchamakara, the yoni puja and so on. But such

rituals are, in fact, "exotics" – used once in a great while by some

sadhaks in some circumstances, and by many others not at all.

Perhaps the most common "body worship" acts in Kaulachara are the

nyasas, which are totally unobjectionable – making the Christian

sign of the cross is a type of nyasa, for goodness' sake.

 

In the Kaulachara tradition, the idol is replaced by a living woman

or a man or a couple. You can also think of Her as the Union of

Shiva and Shakti. You can worship Her as a woman, as a man, or as

both. There are no restrictions in this regard. When we give Her a

bath, we not only chant the Durga and Lakshmi Suktams; we also chant

the Purusha Suktam and the Rudram. The word "She" contains the

word "He". So you need not worry that you are only worshiping the

Mother Goddess and ignoring the Father God. You are worshiping both.

 

In the Kaulachara tradition, the notion of the self is completely

negated. You see everyone as yourself. You invoke the Goddess into

your spouse, into the suvasini or into anyone. You yourself become

the Goddess in the Viraja homa, even as you are worshiping Her. That

is why it is said that Kaulas accumulate no karma – it is not a

boast, but a logical result when one sheds the "self" to which karma

generally attaches itself.

 

There can be no sense of shame in this process. That is why

Dattatreya is known as Digambara, the Naked One. Dattatreya

Digambara is one of the great mantras of Dattatreya. Shridi Sai

Baba, Satya Sai Baba, Paramahamsa Yogananda, Ganapati Sacchidananda –

all of these teachers come from the Dattatreya tradition.

 

It is worth noting here that the Kaulachara follow all three

concepts, one progressing into the next, starting as Kaulas and then

later internalizing everything; external worship ends, becoming more

dakshina or samaya in nature – but the achara remains Kaula. Cp.

Lalita Sahasranama: "samayachara talpara."

 

VAMACHARA

 

The last Achara is called the Vamachara tradition. In contrast to

the other three Acharas described here – which are based on the

worship of the protective, nourishing, healing kind of aspects of

the Divine – the Vamachara tradition worships the terrible aspects

of the Divine, the laya pradhana, where dissolution is the main

aspect. It is dissolution of the upasaka into the ultimate,

resulting in absolute merger.

 

It is the Vamachara tradition that employs, among other things,

rituals in the cremation grounds. There you will find vairagya,

complete detachment. One's energy leaves the Visshudi Chakra, going

up to the Command Centers and never coming down. It is very

difficult to arrive at these centers without passing through the

lower chakras. For example, until one has experienced Anahata

Chakra, the heart center, to arrive at the Ajna Center is very

dangerous: One will experience an inordinate number of fears that

cannot be shaken off. One cannot be given the astra vidyas, the so-

called "atom bomb" mantras and teachings -- because atom bombs can't

be put into the hands of crazy people.

 

Suffice it to say that the Vamachara path is very dangerous without

a proper guru. The aghoris are Vamacharis. Some Vamacharis do use

their energies for healing. One we know in Benares uses his healing

energy to cure the lepers etc. Normally we like to think of God in

the beautiful sense; but the Vamacharis prefer to think of God in

the terrible sense.

 

aim mAtangyai namaH

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Mahahradanatha

 

Thank you for your kind comments on the Srividya discussion.

 

You note: *** The task of writing an essay on the different tantric

paths is such a complicated matter with so many differing and

sometimes opposing viewpoints [...] even in the Agamas and Nigamas

themselves [that ...] the task becomes overwhelming. ***

 

Agreed. But that's no excuse not to try to explain something in

simple, broad terms that will at least give people a place to begin

a discussion. In this case, the essay was inspired by observing a

person who claimed 14 years of Srividya upasana -- and yet seemed to

lack even a rudimentary grasp of what the tradition, leading to

total misinterpretation of her own (she claims) guru's position.

 

It seemed to me, therefore, that a beginner's primer on the subjedct

would not be a bad idea.

 

*** I admire your courage to begin this topic at all and i think it

is an excellent essay, but because of the reasons mentioned it can

never be complete or flawless because of the widely differing views.

***

 

You can say that elementary and high-school physics courses

are "incomplete and flawed" because they mainly concentrate on

workaday Newtonian physics ... a theory that -- as Einstein and

others have shown -- begins to fall apart as soon as you leave our

everyday world, moving to light speed; viewing subatomic or

macrocosmic phenomena.

 

So what does that mean? That we should therefore not bother with

teaching high-school physics? No. It is enough to say, "All of this

holds true for about 95% of everyday situations. Please note that as

physical circumstances become less familiar and more rarified, new,

more difficult and exotic refinements and exceptions begin to occur.

Those of you interested in such things may pursue them in good time.

For now, however, it's important to establish a workable foundation

in the familiar, from which you may launch into stranger realms at a

later time."

 

*** The Distinctions are of course not always clear cut. ***

 

Of course. I agree. But my argument remains. A workable intellectual

framework is a good place to start, assimilating finer distinctions

and exceptions as one's experience grows.

 

When you begin a course in hatha yoga, a good teacher will always

spend a lot of time focusing on form at the outset. Because if you

don't spend time on building this strong (albeit boring and

unspectacular) foundation, whatever castle you build will be left

wobbling precariously on sand.

 

That is how this 14-year Srividya upasika seemed to me. She was a

high building on a wobbly foundation. A sad waste of time because

eventually you have to go back to the beginning and build

reinforcements to avoid a disasterous collapse. As much as we'd like

to think otherwise, there are very few shortcuts in sadhana.

 

*** According to my Information vamachara traditions are not

centered around fierce deities only. ***

 

Again, I agree. I'd noted as much in my letter to Samathmika, where

I stated: "Yes. But please know that the Vamachara paths involve

much more than the worship of 'fierce' goddesses. Kaali,

Praytangira, Vanadurga, Shoolini, etc. (all of whom are frequently

invoked in Guruji Amrita's practice and practice prescriptions), in

my opinion can be classified as Vama. Vama is, after all, largely

about breaking the traditional taboos; 'fierceness' apart, when one

[for example] who is by definition a vegetarian uses meat it is

vama."

 

But in general, your points are well taken and correct.

 

Thank you

 

DB

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave:

 

Well, I was simply using a colloquialism in that case! :-p

 

And certainly, any one- or two- paragragh "quickie summary" of

Tantra is going to need several hundred pages of footnotes before

any concensus will be reached ...

 

But you are 100% correct to observe that the path of Tantra is a

knife's blade. Far from being decadants and libertines, the Kaulas I

have been privileged to know are some of the most amazingly self-

disciplined, self-controlled individuals one could ever hope to meet.

 

Thanks for the comment

 

DB

 

, david keller

<davekeller121 wrote:

>

>

> Dear Devi Bakta,

>

> I am pleased with your exposition but did you say it right when

you said I qoute:

>

> < Stepping down a peg, the main practical corollary of ....

>

> isn't that "Stepping down on a knife ..." as it is considered

the path in Tantra ?

> I am just asking is it "peg" or "knife" ?

>

> Dave

[Guest guest]

, "Devi Bhakta"

<devi_bhakta wrote:

>

> Hi Mahahradanatha

>

> Thank you for your kind comments on the Srividya discussion.

>

> You note: *** The task of writing an essay on the different tantric

> paths is such a complicated matter with so many differing and

> sometimes opposing viewpoints [...] even in the Agamas and Nigamas

> themselves [that ...] the task becomes overwhelming. ***

>

> Agreed. But that's no excuse not to try to explain something in

> simple, broad terms that will at least give people a place to begin

> a discussion. In this case, the essay was inspired by observing a

> person who claimed 14 years of Srividya upasana -- and yet seemed

>to

> lack even a rudimentary grasp of what the tradition, leading to

> total misinterpretation of her own (she claims) guru's position.

>

> It seemed to me, therefore, that a beginner's primer on the

subjedct

> would not be a bad idea.

 

No not at all and i am glad you decided to take that step.

I was really perplexed to hear from you that

shri shri Amritanandanatha is her Guru.

 

Often itis Ignorance that is the cause of mistrust, mistrust again

causes fear and often fear causes violence and that again mistrust.

 

That is why it is very important to make Information available so

that ignorance which according to the buddhistis the root cause of

suufering is dimished. knowledge trust and Courage is an antidote to

violence. knowledge can cause gentleness and trust, that can cause

joy and acceptance.

>

> *** I admire your courage to begin this topic at all and i think

it

> is an excellent essay, but because of the reasons mentioned it can

> never be complete or flawless because of the widely differing

views.

> ***

>

> You can say that elementary and high-school physics courses

> are "incomplete and flawed" because they mainly concentrate on

> workaday Newtonian physics ... a theory that -- as Einstein and

> others have shown -- begins to fall apart as soon as you leave our

> everyday world, moving to light speed; viewing subatomic or

> macrocosmic phenomena.

>

> So what does that mean? That we should therefore not bother with

> teaching high-school physics? No. It is enough to say, "All of this

> holds true for about 95% of everyday situations. Please note that

as

> physical circumstances become less familiar and more rarified, new,

> more difficult and exotic refinements and exceptions begin to

occur.

> Those of you interested in such things may pursue them in good

time.

> For now, however, it's important to establish a workable foundation

> in the familiar, from which you may launch into stranger realms at

a

> later time."

 

I do agree on that one and curiously a buddhist teacher told me that

his or the buddhas teachings only serve as a raft to cross the river

after reaching the other shore it can be safely abondend.

>

> *** The Distinctions are of course not always clear cut. ***

>

> Of course. I agree. But my argument remains. A workable

intellectual

> framework is a good place to start, assimilating finer distinctions

> and exceptions as one's experience grows.

>

> When you begin a course in hatha yoga, a good teacher will always

> spend a lot of time focusing on form at the outset. Because if you

> don't spend time on building this strong (albeit boring and

> unspectacular) foundation, whatever castle you build will be left

> wobbling precariously on sand.

>

> That is how this 14-year Srividya upasika seemed to me. She was a

> high building on a wobbly foundation. A sad waste of time because

> eventually you have to go back to the beginning and build

> reinforcements to avoid a disasterous collapse. As much as we'd

like

> to think otherwise, there are very few shortcuts in sadhana.

>

> *** According to my Information vamachara traditions are not

> centered around fierce deities only. ***

>

> Again, I agree. I'd noted as much in my letter to Samathmika, where

> I stated: "Yes. But please know that the Vamachara paths involve

> much more than the worship of 'fierce' goddesses. Kaali,

> Praytangira, Vanadurga, Shoolini, etc. (all of whom are frequently

> invoked in Guruji Amrita's practice and practice prescriptions), in

> my opinion can be classified as Vama. Vama is, after all, largely

> about breaking the traditional taboos; 'fierceness' apart, when one

> [for example] who is by definition a vegetarian uses meat it is

> vama."

>

Yes this is my humble opinion also, as little as i have seen of

Amritanandanathas Teachings they begin with the Vamamarga and reach

into Kaulamarga.

 

Now that i know that her guru is Amritanadanatha my questions put to

her gain in relevance.

She already is part of that which she is afraid of even being in

contact with. Amazing!

But maybe some deeper destiny from past lives is involved. We all

have some blind spots, where we refuse to face the facts, but

Samatmikas ignorance of the teachings she professes to follow is

absurd ,thats why i see some very mysterious reasons for that

situaton she is in.

I am reminded about that verse from Kularnava Tantra.

He who is deluded by your maya sees not while he sees, understands

not while he hears, and knows not the truth while he reads -

Kularnava Tantra

> But in general, your points are well taken and correct.

>

> Thank you

No problem:) I hope i can find some more time to add some more

information.

 

Mahahradanatha.

[Guest guest]

OM SrIguruH sarva kAraNa BUtA SaktiH.

OM SrIman mahA gaNAdhipatayE namaH.

 

Confusion lies in mind.

 

fuse it with the soul-consciousness, to look above confusion.

Please have conscient-fusion to get rid of confusion.

I do not care about different pAths, that they say exist.

As long as I am not practising any given pAth, it is as good as it

does not exist for me.

There is no difference, whether it exists or not in others minds.

I never care giving explanations on different pAths. And I do not care

either,

if somebody, gives explanations on different pAths, if they have not

followed all of those pAths.

You do not get authority to comment on a pAth, if you have not

followed it, not tasted it, that simple.

Say, before taking the pAth, shown by my guru, If I 'scoped'/

'browsed' around different pAths to see

which one to follow, my opinion there holds true to the 'truth of

sources' that I browsed.

And this 'truth of sources' too is soooo volatile, that I cannot vouch

for them.

 

By comparing pAths, now, what will I get? more confusion.

Is that, what I seek? NO.

Even if I wish, can I compare them in a given birth? Must be NOT.

As they proclaim, you will be following one or the other pAth in a

given birth.

Or if they say that after completing certain period of time,

You can taste through other pAths, then down-the-line I will sure know

all the pAths as well.

 

Either case, no need to worry for me, as long as I am following my

Guru closely, and cognitively.

 

Focused on your goal. fuse confusions to consciousness.

Thus refuse confusion. infuse conscious.

fuse to the Guru's pAth, as that is 'The Science' to know thyself.

 

svarUpa nirUpaNa hEtavE svaguravE namaH.

 

OM aiM hrIM SrIM SrImAtrE namOnnamaH SrIM.

prasAda.