Is Bhakti the beginning and the end on the eternal path and in SS?

[Guest guest]

As some will remember our young somaadi. Anyway we have been

communicating. He have asked me I thought rather in interesting

question, that I believe should go to the message board. I've

communicate with Sommadi and I'm sure he is okay with this. We are

all here to learn. This will make good discussion thread, I hope.

 

This is how it started :

kalima_777 wrote: I am a bhakta shakta sadhaka and looking

for detailed and profound information about following :

 

1. what exactly are the similarities and differences between

the various Shakta schools and traditions , specially named here

Kaula , Dakshinacara , Samayachara and Sree Vidya , and What

role plays Bhakti in Shakta Tantra ?

 

2. what exactly is the view on sexuality , partnership ,

marriage etc ... in the various traditions ? thank you for

your support , please reply soon ,

 

I responded: I just love these young uns! They are so full of life

and their enthusiasm overwhelmed me a lot of time. They want to know

about everything and want the answer fast.

 

Just a while ago Devi Bhakta conversation with samatmikadevi, allow

me to quote :

 

*** Those who cultivate knowledge before bhakti will fail miserably

In their aim ***

 

Yes indeed.

 

*** No one likes to think they have to start at the beginning.

[They ... want to launch right out into panchadashi or stronger

mantras, and meditate with Sri Chakra. ***

 

Another fine warning, my friend. As a great soul of my acquaintance

likes to repeat: Slow and steady wins the race. ;-)

 

I remember when I came across the image of Sarada Devi and

Ramakrishna holding Kali as a baby. Kali the baby sitting on the lap

Of Sarada Devi, who is seen feeding Kali, and Ramakrishna Standing?

Near looking at both of them like a proud father. I crack my head

Day and night trying to find the meaning to that image. Only after

almost abt a year and half, I got the answer to my question.

 

Lets us contemplate for a moment this great word of wisdom :

 

Patience is Virtue

 

Somaadi replied : Jai Maa ! Pranams Maa , thank you for the

message. No question for me that devotion comes before

salvation , am a bhakta and think that simple devotion from

the heart is the best way. I just asked the questions as

I think it's a serious group to study , maybe the only

one with qualified people to answer such questions . I want

to be clear about the various shakta traditions is primordial

if one is ready to join a shakta school and seriously

follow Shakti Sadhana.

 

My response: Instead of trying to swallow the whole cake, isn't it

better to cut it into pieces and eat it according to how much your

mouth and stomach can take? If you want to ask question in the

group: Why not one at a time. And try to understand it first before

you go to the next. I saw your same message being displayed in other

groups and site. Did anybody bother to respond to you?

 

My dear friend, bhakta sadhu replied : Is Bhakti the beginning

and the end on the

eternal path and in the Shakti sadhana ?

 

Good question yes? Firstly I like to find an understanding: what

does Bhakti means?

I got this from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and it says: Bhakti

is a Tamil or Sanskrit term from Hinduism that means intense

devotion expressed by action (service). A person who practices

bhakti is called Bhakta.

 

Having understood the above term, I ponder for a moment. Several

questions come into my mind: doesn't all this begin with bhakti?

Should we not do our sadhana with devotion? It is said, you should

recite your mantra not only with understanding and proper

pronunciation but with devotion, and only then the mantra comes

alive.

 

So before we begin anything especially in our sadhana, shouldn't

there first be Bhakti? And should this Bhakti have an end? If bhakti

too means to perform service to mankind with devotion. In Shakti

Sadhana perspective, from what I understand, sadhana does not

confine to the pooja room. Our whole environment: the people we

encounter daily and our family is sadhana to us. If you hurt your

family or other people, you are hurting Devi. When you are

contributing to humanity, it is sadhana too. So where does it end?

 

In every journey especially in our spiritual journey must there be

the beginning and the end? I think we did talk about this in

previous discussion: The Goal. If DEVI is us, and we are being

told, "I am the Devi" or the "Devi is us", then we can conclude that

we are the goal. So if we are the goal, where is the beginning and

where is the end?

 

I don't know this is how I see. Am I missing something?

 

I've been reading on this Bhakti and I'm being lead to others topic

like Bhakti movement. I'm not so sure how this Bhakti Movement

applicable to Shakti Sadhana. From what I understand, Shakti

Sadhana is itself based on Bhakti.

 

 

I like to hear what others have to say.

[Guest guest]

Something is making me respond to this:

 

Shakti-sadhana is Bhakti

 

First comes Bhakti

 

Then when the mantra comes alive

 

Gyana flows

 

Now how a mantra comes alive:

 

the mantra when felt comes alive......

 

if recited with devotion.....

 

each syllable of a mantra comes seperates......

 

awakes....

 

and gives its meaning.....

 

intutive meaning of the mantra reveals.......

 

each syllable opens like a gate.

 

Bhakti is paramount, no amount of reading or recital will yield this, only

devotion will............

 

when the mantra awakens within.....

 

the rahasya of Devi flows.......

 

one discovers her like walking.

 

Bhakti is the key, to Maa's treasure

 

Om Tare Tutare Ture Soha..............

[Guest guest]

I wrote earlier: I don't know this is how I see. Am I missing

something? I've been reading on this Bhakti and I'm being lead to

others topic like Bhakti movement. I'm not so sure how this Bhakti

Movement applicable to Shakti Sadhana. From what I understand,

Shakti Sadhana is itself based on Bhakti.

 

 

Ive been thinking about this and would like to explore further. I

remembered sometime back in Nageshwari Temple, had a conversation

with a lady and she remarked : I am towards bhakti.

 

So ive been thinking, is somaadi referring to Bhakti as oppose to

Rituals? There was a time when rituals are being dominated or

control by the priestly class. And certain group of people

especially women are not allowed to participate in certain rituals,

it make sense of the rise of this bhakti movement. I thought I see

the parallels between the cultural revolution in China, the feminist

revolution in the west and several other social revolutions?

 

Further reading over the net lead me to the Wikipedia, the free

encyclopedia. This is an extraction :

 

The concept of devotion is more or less the same in all religions.

In Hinduism, as Professor Klostermeier comments in The Survey of

Hinduism, the path of devotion is a path of salvation in its own

right, whereby none of the scriptural codes such as the caste system

are followed and scriptures were disregarded. In the 12th to 17th

centuries in India there was a surge of this movement where the

proponents merely sang and formed congregations of people many from

the lower classes. The movement is by nature rebellious because of

its egalitarian stance, since few of its most charismatic proponents

were women. There are some subtleties of the Bhakti movement. These

are : the One Reality versus many `Gods' of worship; deity worship

through `icons' and `images'; the freedom to choose one's

own `favourite deity', at the same time not being exclusive; and the

interactive ramifications of God's grace, fate and free will.

Although some element of Bhakti was present even in the Vedic times,

it is over the last six or seven centuries that Bhakti has taken the

modern shape. The Bhakti movement started in Tamil Nadu and spread

slowly northwards, becoming eventually a pervasive feature of

Hinduism. The Alvars and Nayanars initiated the concept of Bhakti as

a means of attaining salvation. However with time, the rebellious

nature was subdued as the influences of the orthodoxy were

incorporated which made it comparatively more complicated. In

ISKCON, women can conduct pujas and lectures, however the scripures

which refer to the subdued position of women is studied as part of

the bhakti path.

 

I like to go back to Somaadi original question: Is Bhakti the

beginning and the end on the eternal path and in the

Shakti sadhana ?

[Guest guest]

Hello Nora,

 

Ramprasad says

 

sakaler mul bhakti, mukti hay tar dasi.

 

bhakti is the root of everything, mukti is bhakti's servant girl

 

(from the song beginning ar kaj ki amar kashi)

 

There was a time when rituals are being dominated or

> control by the priestly class. And certain group of people

> especially women are not allowed to participate in certain

rituals,

> it make sense of the rise of this bhakti movement. I thought I see

> the parallels between the cultural revolution in China, the

feminist

> revolution in the west and several other social revolutions?

 

Yes, I agree that there are parallels. The Reformation (ie birth of

Protestantism in Europe) has also been compared with India's bhakti

movements.

 

All these movements in their different ways affirm the value of

ordinary people, and challenge the role of elites.

 

There can be a destructive side to this challenge -- denial of the

worth of gifts like scholarship, leadership, artistic ability...

 

Even if the role of elites can be diminished, experience suggests

that they can never quite be dispensed with. All these movements

have had their leaders, their intellectuals, even if they gave them

new names, like ministers instead of priests...

 

Om Shantih,

Colin

 

, "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy

wrote:

>

> I wrote earlier: I don't know this is how I see. Am I missing

> something? I've been reading on this Bhakti and I'm being lead to

> others topic like Bhakti movement. I'm not so sure how this Bhakti

> Movement applicable to Shakti Sadhana. From what I understand,

> Shakti Sadhana is itself based on Bhakti.

>

>

> Ive been thinking about this and would like to explore further. I

> remembered sometime back in Nageshwari Temple, had a conversation

> with a lady and she remarked : I am towards bhakti.

>

> So ive been thinking, is somaadi referring to Bhakti as oppose to

> Rituals? There was a time when rituals are being dominated or

> control by the priestly class. And certain group of people

> especially women are not allowed to participate in certain

rituals,

> it make sense of the rise of this bhakti movement. I thought I see

> the parallels between the cultural revolution in China, the

feminist

> revolution in the west and several other social revolutions?

>

> Further reading over the net lead me to the Wikipedia, the free

> encyclopedia. This is an extraction :

>

> The concept of devotion is more or less the same in all religions.

> In Hinduism, as Professor Klostermeier comments in The Survey of

> Hinduism, the path of devotion is a path of salvation in its own

> right, whereby none of the scriptural codes such as the caste

system

> are followed and scriptures were disregarded. In the 12th to 17th

> centuries in India there was a surge of this movement where the

> proponents merely sang and formed congregations of people many

from

> the lower classes. The movement is by nature rebellious because of

> its egalitarian stance, since few of its most charismatic

proponents

> were women. There are some subtleties of the Bhakti movement.

These

> are : the One Reality versus many `Gods' of worship; deity worship

> through `icons' and `images'; the freedom to choose one's

> own `favourite deity', at the same time not being exclusive; and

the

> interactive ramifications of God's grace, fate and free will.

> Although some element of Bhakti was present even in the Vedic

times,

> it is over the last six or seven centuries that Bhakti has taken

the

> modern shape. The Bhakti movement started in Tamil Nadu and spread

> slowly northwards, becoming eventually a pervasive feature of

> Hinduism. The Alvars and Nayanars initiated the concept of Bhakti

as

> a means of attaining salvation. However with time, the rebellious

> nature was subdued as the influences of the orthodoxy were

> incorporated which made it comparatively more complicated. In

> ISKCON, women can conduct pujas and lectures, however the

scripures

> which refer to the subdued position of women is studied as part of

> the bhakti path.

>

> I like to go back to Somaadi original question: Is Bhakti the

> beginning and the end on the eternal path and in the

> Shakti sadhana ?

>

[Guest guest]

Very very well said ! WOW !

 

----- colin777au <colinr wrote: Hello Nora,

 

Ramprasad says

 

sakaler mul bhakti, mukti hay tar dasi.

 

bhakti is the root of everything, mukti is bhakti's servant girl

 

(from the song beginning ar kaj ki amar kashi)