Yoga, Chi Kung, Huna, Reiki ~ Comparisons and Contrasts

[Guest guest]

93

 

Who said Yoga is shamanistic? It is as much distant from shamanism as it could

be! Up to my

knowledge neither Chi Kung nor Reiki has anything to do with shamanism as well.

U either have no clear idea of shamanism or of mentioned systems.

 

While Yoga is (i speak of Yoga and not yoga-fitness) aimed at Liberation,

shamanism is

perhaps not. And in any case methods are totally and essentially different.

 

A

 

, "Dharma Mitra" <dharmamitra2 wrote:

>

> Yoga, Chi Kung, Huna, Reiki and other shamanistic practices for attaining

> liberation, cultivating our subtler realms, our human essence.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry but I would have to disagree somewhat with this statment. The

Himalayan Yogis have always had a tradition of being healers/medicine

men/shamans. This continues to this day.

-

Arjuna Taranandanatha

Sunday, March 26, 2006 2:26 PM

Re: Yoga, Chi Kung, Huna, Reiki ~ Comparisons and

Contrasts

 

 

93

 

Who said Yoga is shamanistic? It is as much distant from shamanism as it could

be! Up to my

knowledge neither Chi Kung nor Reiki has anything to do with shamanism as

well.

U either have no clear idea of shamanism or of mentioned systems.

 

While Yoga is (i speak of Yoga and not yoga-fitness) aimed at Liberation,

shamanism is

perhaps not. And in any case methods are totally and essentially different.

 

A

 

, "Dharma Mitra" <dharmamitra2

wrote:

>

> Yoga, Chi Kung, Huna, Reiki and other shamanistic practices for attaining

> liberation, cultivating our subtler realms, our human essence.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Traditions Divine

 

 

 

 

a.. Visit your group "" on the web.

 

b..

 

c..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I think we may be close to tripping over our terminology.

 

"Shaman" originally referred to particular type of

Siberian "spiritual trouble-shooter."

(see Ronald Hutton's work, listed below.)

 

In common usage, the terms "shaman" and "shamanism" have been

broadened to cover a vague set of indigenous healers and mystics,

and their practices. Not to put words into Arjuna's mouth, but some

object to the genericization of a word that has a specific meaning.

And some religious practitioners object to having outsiders lump

their traditions together into some ill-defined class of exotic

otherness.

>From a practical standpoint, it seems to me that the word "shaman"

gets used so generically these days that if it's not used to refer

to Siberian Shamans, it's unclear as to what it's referring to at

all. For clarity, maybe we ought to say "healer" if we mean healer,

or "mystic", if that's what we mean..... So, Dharma Mitra, what did

you mean by "shamanistic"? Can you substitute a synonym?

 

For more on Siberian Shamans, see

_Shamans: Siberian Spirituality and the Western Imagination_

by Ronald Hutton

2002

ISBN: 1852853247

 

I wish Hutton went more into *why* the concept of "shaman" appeals

so intensely to the Western imagination. But, still, it's a good

book.

 

For an explanation as to why some Native Americans strongly object

to the "shamanization" of their religious traditons:

 

Plastic Shamans and Astroturf Sun Dances:

New Age Commercialization of Native American Spirituality

Lisa Aldred

http://muse.jhu.edu/demo/american_indian_quarterly/v024/24.3aldred.ht

ml

> "Mahamuni" wrote:

>

> I'm sorry but I would have to disagree somewhat with this

statement. The Himalayan Yogis have always had a tradition of being

healers/medicine men/shamans. This continues to this day.

> Arjuna Taranandanatha wrote:

>

> Who said Yoga is shamanistic?

> It is as much distant from shamanism as it could be!

> [....]

> "Dharma Mitra" wrote:

> >

> > Yoga, Chi Kung, Huna, Reiki and other

> > shamanistic practices for attaining

> > liberation, cultivating our subtler

> > realms, our human essence.

[Guest guest]

To be a healer and medicine man doesn't imply being a shaman

 

Shamanism deals with trance-like states of consciousness with posession of

spirits. There is

NO such thing in Yoga. It is present to some degree in lower Tantra (shAbara)

and in VERY

specific sense in higher Tantra. But not in Yoga.

 

, "Mahamuni" <mahamuni wrote:

>

> I'm sorry but I would have to disagree somewhat with this statment. The

Himalayan Yogis

have always had a tradition of being healers/medicine men/shamans. This

continues to this

day.

[Guest guest]

It would be foolish to separate the healing function of the shaman from any

healing or liberating techniques. Though I am mainly a Buddhist yogi, I would

also daresay that I also consider myself a modern shaman of sorts since my

practices are mainly aimed at balance of the five elements. We modern shamans

will decide what things to bring on the path, and it may well simply be yoga,

tantra, etc....

 

Not to mention the word shaman itself has not been previously well defined. It

therefore has plenty of room for free expression. A shaman could well be any

person who considers themself a healer or wise beyond the surface.

 

 

 

-

Arjuna Taranandanatha

93

 

Who said Yoga is shamanistic? It is as much distant from shamanism as it could

be! Up to my

knowledge neither Chi Kung nor Reiki has anything to do with shamanism as well.

U either have no clear idea of shamanism or of mentioned systems.

 

While Yoga is (i speak of Yoga and not yoga-fitness) aimed at Liberation,

shamanism is

perhaps not. And in any case methods are totally and essentially different.

 

A

[Guest guest]

The word "shaman" has been VERY well defined. The word "Yoga" may have

rather broad applicability, but it also has been defined reasonably well.

 

The fact that people may be lacking even the basic knowledge and any desire

whatsoever to be anywhere near precise (under the guise of freedom of

expression and interpretation), is besides the point.

 

 

_____

 

[]

On Behalf Of Llundrub

Monday, March 27, 2006 08:41

Re: Re: Yoga, Chi Kung, Huna, Reiki ~ Comparisons

and Contrasts

 

 

It would be foolish to separate the healing function of the shaman from any

healing or liberating techniques. Though I am mainly a Buddhist yogi, I

would also daresay that I also consider myself a modern shaman of sorts

since my practices are mainly aimed at balance of the five elements. We

modern shamans will decide what things to bring on the path, and it may well

simply be yoga, tantra, etc....

 

Not to mention the word shaman itself has not been previously well defined.

It therefore has plenty of room for free expression. A shaman could well be

any person who considers themself a healer or wise beyond the surface.

 

 

 

-

Arjuna Taranandanatha

93

 

Who said Yoga is shamanistic? It is as much distant from shamanism as it

could be! Up to my

knowledge neither Chi Kung nor Reiki has anything to do with shamanism as

well.

U either have no clear idea of shamanism or of mentioned systems.

 

While Yoga is (i speak of Yoga and not yoga-fitness) aimed at Liberation,

shamanism is

perhaps not. And in any case methods are totally and essentially different.

 

A

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Traditions

</gads?t=ms&k=Traditions&w1=Traditions&w2=Divine&c=2&

s=28&.sig=iO_M4hetp1zoFWS6SdCY7A> Divine

</gads?t=ms&k=Divine&w1=Traditions&w2=Divine&c=2&s=28

&.sig=wH3mwIIhksNgTSx8FfpWnA>

 

_____

 

 

 

 

 

* Visit your group "

<> " on the web.

 

 

*

<?subject=Un>

 

 

* Terms of Service

<> .

 

 

_____

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

93

 

Shaman is NOT a synonim of a healer.

>From Oxford Dictionary:

 

shaman |? sh äm?n; ? sh ?-| noun ( pl. -mans ) a person regarded as having

access to,

and influence in, the world of good and evil spirits, esp. among some peoples of

northern

Asia and North America. Typically such people enter a trance state during a

ritual, and

practice divination and healing.

 

This has NOTHING to do with Yoga, again.

 

A

 

 

, "Llundrub" <llundrub wrote:

>

> It would be foolish to separate the healing function of the shaman from any

healing or

liberating techniques. Though I am mainly a Buddhist yogi, I would also daresay

that I also

consider myself a modern shaman of sorts since my practices are mainly aimed at

balance

of the five elements. We modern shamans will decide what things to bring on the

path,

and it may well simply be yoga, tantra, etc....

>

> Not to mention the word shaman itself has not been previously well defined. It

therefore

has plenty of room for free expression. A shaman could well be any person who

considers

themself a healer or wise beyond the surface.

>

>

>

> -

> Arjuna Taranandanatha

> 93

>

> Who said Yoga is shamanistic? It is as much distant from shamanism as it could

be! Up

to my

> knowledge neither Chi Kung nor Reiki has anything to do with shamanism as

well.

> U either have no clear idea of shamanism or of mentioned systems.

>

> While Yoga is (i speak of Yoga and not yoga-fitness) aimed at Liberation,

shamanism is

> perhaps not. And in any case methods are totally and essentially different.

>

> A

>

[Guest guest]

The poverty of the English language in describing spiritual reality

leads people to adopt terms from other cultures. Shaman has become a

useful term, an attempt to bridge these gaps. No doubt as we advance

our understanding we'll evolve a more textured description of all

this.

 

In the meantime, even in its Siberian context shamanism cannot be

reduced to spirit "possession." And some of those folks most

certainly are engaged in Yoga, within their own cultural context.

Realized beings can be found everywhere. If Yoga is full union of

consciousness with the Real and Ultimate, then it goes beyond

cultural specificity, it is truly universal. Which means we can find

it in many forms and in many places, not just in classic Indian

contexts.

 

I think that a great medicine woman and an Evenki shaman and a Sri

Vidya adept could all sit down together and have no problem communing

on levels most people don't understand, or participate in each

other's rituals with full understanding of the deep meaning and flow

of energies.

 

Max

>Shamanism deals with trance-like states of consciousness with

>posession of spirits. There is NO such thing in Yoga.

 

--

Max Dashu

Suppressed Histories Archives

Global Women's History

http://www.suppressedhistories.net

 

 

[Guest guest]

The Oxford Dictionary is NOT the end all be all of everything, though even in

this definition it says "Typically such people.....and practice divination and

HEALING.

 

Healers are involved in Healing people. Plain and simple. This takes many

levels and forms. But the Yogis have always acted in the role of healers both

by their blessings and giving of vibhuti for various reasons, amongst those

being for healings, and also to instruct about various herbs. They were always

the original caretakers of the knowledge of herbs, jar bhuti/ayurveda. I have

spent time amongst various old sadhu lineages, and have seen this to be the case

with my own eyes and ears.

 

I think you are making the word Yoga, a very limited concept from books, not

from tradition, at least with these statments. No insult intended.

 

Even in Pantanjali's Yog Sutra, Ch4 Verse 1, He mentions that the use of certain

herbs is one definite way to bring about the higher states of consciousness and

to attain siddhis.

 

Jai Maa!

 

Surya

 

 

-

Arjuna Taranandanatha

Monday, March 27, 2006 10:05 AM

Re: Yoga, Chi Kung, Huna, Reiki ~ Comparisons and

Contrasts

 

 

93

 

Shaman is NOT a synonim of a healer.

From Oxford Dictionary:

 

shaman |? sh äm?n; ? sh ?-| noun ( pl. -mans ) a person regarded as having

access to,

and influence in, the world of good and evil spirits, esp. among some peoples

of northern

Asia and North America. Typically such people enter a trance state during a

ritual, and

practice divination and healing.

 

This has NOTHING to do with Yoga, again.

 

A

 

 

, "Llundrub" <llundrub wrote:

>

> It would be foolish to separate the healing function of the shaman from any

healing or

liberating techniques. Though I am mainly a Buddhist yogi, I would also

daresay that I also

consider myself a modern shaman of sorts since my practices are mainly aimed

at balance

of the five elements. We modern shamans will decide what things to bring on

the path,

and it may well simply be yoga, tantra, etc....

>

> Not to mention the word shaman itself has not been previously well defined.

It therefore

has plenty of room for free expression. A shaman could well be any person who

considers

themself a healer or wise beyond the surface.

>

>

>

> -

> Arjuna Taranandanatha

> 93

>

> Who said Yoga is shamanistic? It is as much distant from shamanism as it

could be! Up

to my

> knowledge neither Chi Kung nor Reiki has anything to do with shamanism as

well.

> U either have no clear idea of shamanism or of mentioned systems.

>

> While Yoga is (i speak of Yoga and not yoga-fitness) aimed at Liberation,

shamanism is

> perhaps not. And in any case methods are totally and essentially different.

>

> A

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

a.. Visit your group "" on the web.

 

b..

 

c..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

93

 

Seems U do not quite catch my point.

I never stated that shamanism cannot lead to the same state as Yoga. Also never

stated

that a shaman can never understand yogi and vice versa.

 

What is said is that shamanism and Yoga has nothing to do in common — as

METHODS. In

fact in many things they are opposite and in any case incompatible. Shamanism is

NOT

healing, but it may involve healing. As well as Yoga may. But principles of

healing are

again different.

 

To put it simply, yogi is not a shaman and shaman is not a yogi.

This is not to degrade any of two, but to remove confusion.

 

A

 

 

, Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote:

>

> The poverty of the English language in describing spiritual reality

> leads people to adopt terms from other cultures. Shaman has become a

> useful term, an attempt to bridge these gaps. No doubt as we advance

> our understanding we'll evolve a more textured description of all

> this.

>

> In the meantime, even in its Siberian context shamanism cannot be

> reduced to spirit "possession." And some of those folks most

> certainly are engaged in Yoga, within their own cultural context.

> Realized beings can be found everywhere. If Yoga is full union of

> consciousness with the Real and Ultimate, then it goes beyond

> cultural specificity, it is truly universal. Which means we can find

> it in many forms and in many places, not just in classic Indian

> contexts.

>

> I think that a great medicine woman and an Evenki shaman and a Sri

> Vidya adept could all sit down together and have no problem communing

> on levels most people don't understand, or participate in each

> other's rituals with full understanding of the deep meaning and flow

> of energies.

>

> Max

>

> Arjuna wrote:

> >Shamanism deals with trance-like states of consciousness with

> >posession of spirits. There is NO such thing in Yoga.

>

> --

> Max Dashu

> Suppressed Histories Archives

> Global Women's History

> http://www.suppressedhistories.net

>

[Guest guest]

93

 

U are also making a logical mistake.

Yes, shamans MAY heal — but not everyone who heals is a shaman. Yes, yogi MAY

heal

too — but not everyone who heals is a yogi. The designition of yoga and

shamanism is

independent upon healing. Their difference lies in other, more essential things.

Healing is

irrelevant to the problem.

A driver or a sweeper may heal too, but they do not become through this neither

yogis nor

shamans. And while they both can heal (for example), it doesn't make their

professions

the same.

 

A

 

, "Mahamuni" <mahamuni wrote:

>

> The Oxford Dictionary is NOT the end all be all of everything, though even in

this

definition it says "Typically such people.....and practice divination and

HEALING.

>

> Healers are involved in Healing people. Plain and simple. This takes many

levels and

forms. But the Yogis have always acted in the role of healers both by their

blessings and

giving of vibhuti for various reasons, amongst those being for healings, and

also to

instruct about various herbs. They were always the original caretakers of the

knowledge

of herbs, jar bhuti/ayurveda. I have spent time amongst various old sadhu

lineages, and

have seen this to be the case with my own eyes and ears.

>

> I think you are making the word Yoga, a very limited concept from books, not

from

tradition, at least with these statments. No insult intended.

>

> Even in Pantanjali's Yog Sutra, Ch4 Verse 1, He mentions that the use of

certain herbs is

one definite way to bring about the higher states of consciousness and to attain

siddhis.

>

> Jai Maa!

>

> Surya

>

>

> -

> Arjuna Taranandanatha

>

> 93

>

> Shaman is NOT a synonim of a healer.

> From Oxford Dictionary:

>

> shaman |? sh äm?n; ? sh ?-| noun ( pl. -mans ) a person regarded as having

access to,

> and influence in, the world of good and evil spirits, esp. among some

peoples of

northern

> Asia and North America. Typically such people enter a trance state during a

ritual, and

> practice divination and healing.

>

> This has NOTHING to do with Yoga, again.

>

> A

>

>

> , "Llundrub" <llundrub@> wrote:

> >

> > It would be foolish to separate the healing function of the shaman from

any healing

or

> liberating techniques. [....]

[Guest guest]

>What is said is that shamanism and Yoga has

>nothing to do in common — as METHODS.

 

Not to argue, but many similarities come to mind:

chanting, sacred dance, fasting, going into the

forest seeking insight and communion, even the

theme of mystical marriage. Shiva, as the classic

yogi/sadhak, shows many traits that answer to

shamanic methods, as Nataraj, drummer (the

damaru), ascetic and wanderer. Even the wearing

of serpents, which are a common image on the

ceremonial regalia of shamans. Some of the

inspired movements of shamans could be described

as kriyas.

 

Max

 

 

[Guest guest]

93

 

Yes, many *outer* similarities are there. But people go to woods for hicking,

dance for fun

or fitness, speak about sacred marriage referring to chemical processes, wear

snakes to

show in circus...

 

I spoke about essense of corresponding methods, U speak about appearances. Of

course

the is so much common in how we look like — we all even have similar nose, eyes

and

mouth!

 

Not to argue, better close a theme. Perhaps it is clear to the possible degree

 

A

 

 

, Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote:

>

> >What is said is that shamanism and Yoga has

> >nothing to do in common — as METHODS.

>

> Not to argue, but many similarities come to mind:

> chanting, sacred dance, fasting, going into the

> forest seeking insight and communion, even the

> theme of mystical marriage. Shiva, as the classic

> yogi/sadhak, shows many traits that answer to

> shamanic methods, as Nataraj, drummer (the

> damaru), ascetic and wanderer. Even the wearing

> of serpents, which are a common image on the

> ceremonial regalia of shamans. Some of the

> inspired movements of shamans could be described

> as kriyas.

>

> Max

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>I spoke about essense of corresponding methods, U speak about appearances.

 

Not at all! I was talking about spiritual practices, not hiking,

ballrooms and circuses.

 

No point in continuing.

 

Max

--

Max Dashu

Suppressed Histories Archives

Global Women's History

http://www.suppressedhistories.net