Guest guest Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 93 Dear Nora, The question here is only of term usage. If we take "vama" and "kaula" in narrow sense as names of acharas (stages of inner progress, advance of bhAva) then kaula is superior. That is what that person spoke of. But in this case it is stupid to claim "i am kaula so i am superior" LOL. One may get diksha in kaula-lineage — that doesn't make him satkaula by itself (we both know some examples of having formal diksha while no understanding proper). In broad sense Vama and Kaula refer to the same Tradition, which is the very heart of Hindu mysticism. Pranam, A , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy wrote: > > > Quite interestingly I encounter a young man who claim to be a kuala > and this is what he have to say "I am a kaula superior to vama > according to scriptures" > > Does the scriptures actually say that? Any comments? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 You are right no path is superior or inferior, you have to have the capacity, to love....................thats all sankara menon <kochu1tz wrote: IMHO no system is superior or inferior. Each path leads to the ultimate. Only thing is a person has to travel. Those who speak of superiority or inferiority are ppl who are not travelling. NMadasamy <nmadasamy wrote: Quite interestingly I encounter a young man who claim to be a kuala and this is what he have to say "I am a kaula superior to vama according to scriptures" Does the scriptures actually say that? Any comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 93 Yes, U are right. But then we have to agree that avidya is also a "part" of Parabrahman — because there is no other being capable of having anything and no other location for a event to exist. "Difference" is a quality of Brahman. Who, as Scriptures put it, "is beyond dvaita and advaita". A , Radhakrishnan J <jayaarshree wrote: > > Nora > Quite interestingly, upanishads describe avyakta parabrahmam using epithets like avishesha, sadharana etc., meaning nothing special, normal, ordinary etc. Once we start using expressions like special, superior etc., we presuppose the existance of another for comparison purposes. But the 'being is one without a second'. Hence the assertion of ordinariness. Yadaahyevaisha etasmin udaramantaram kurute; ata tasya bhayam bhavati meaning the moment a person perceives differences, he is overcome with fear. Here the reference is to primordeal fear which people like me (ignoramus) suffer from having not attained gnana. > > Difference is the essence of avidya. Superior, inferior all included. > > Of course I have no locus standi on judging different paths. Pl bear with my blabberings. > > Om Namas Tripurasundari > > > > NMadasamy <nmadasamy wrote: > > Quite interestingly I encounter a young man who claim to be a kuala > and this is what he have to say "I am a kaula superior to vama > according to scriptures" > > Does the scriptures actually say that? Any comments? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 NO! All of you are wrong! Sankara Menon is wrong, Arjuna is wrong and Radhakrishnan is also wrong! Look what my good friend vikram has send me to assert his claim that he as a kuala is superior. "The Vishva-sara Tantra, says of the Kaula that "for him there is neither rule of time; nor place. His actions are unaffected either by the phases of the moon or the position of the stars. The Kaula roams the earth in differing forms. At times adhering to social rules (shishta), he at others appears, according to their standard, to be fallen (bhrashta). At times, again, he seems to be as unearthly as a ghost (bhuta or pishacha) To him no difference is there between mud and sandal paste, his son and an enemy, home and the cremation ground." "There are seven, or, as some say, nine, divisions of worshippers. The extra divisions are bracketed in the following quotation. The Kularnava Tantra mentions seven, which are given in their order of superiority, the first being the lowest: Vedachara, Vaishnavachara, Shaivachara, Dakshinachara, Vamachara, Siddhantachara (Aghorachara, Yogachara), and Kaulachara, the highest of all. The achara is the way, custom, and practice of a particular class of sadhaka. They are not, as sometimes supposed, different sects, but stages through which the worshipper in this or other births has to pass before he reaches the supreme stage of the Kaula." And Mahahradanatha wrote : I bet the one who is claiming to be akula is a christian or muslim convert or still belongs to that religion (a part time kaula)? This idea and infighting about the true path is most often a hangover from christian upbringing. Ever since this vikram make his presence in SS, my instincts been telling me that our young vikram aka vikrant aka saradapriyananda is not alone. I have concrete prove now that my instinct is right along. Yes! behind this id there is another person. A tamil christian fundie who have been using this young man with the main aim to create chaos, mockery and insulting the hindu groups. Going around citing Amritananda as "his" Guru and at the same time verbally abusing the vamacharis. By doing so, "he/she" is making a mockery of Guruji Amritananda Natha. I hate to do this, but I feel I have the obligation to inform all. , "Arjuna Taranandanatha" <bhagatirtha wrote: > > 93 > > Yes, U are right. > But then we have to agree that avidya is also a "part" of Parabrahman — because there is > no other being capable of having anything and no other location for a event to exist. > "Difference" is a quality of Brahman. Who, as Scriptures put it, "is beyond dvaita and > advaita". > > A > > , Radhakrishnan J <jayaarshree@> wrote: > > > > Nora > > Quite interestingly, upanishads describe avyakta parabrahmam using epithets like > avishesha, sadharana etc., meaning nothing special, normal, ordinary etc. Once we start > using expressions like special, superior etc., we presuppose the existance of another for > comparison purposes. But the 'being is one without a second'. Hence the assertion of > ordinariness. Yadaahyevaisha etasmin udaramantaram kurute; ata tasya bhayam bhavati > meaning the moment a person perceives differences, he is overcome with fear. Here the > reference is to primordeal fear which people like me (ignoramus) suffer from having not > attained gnana. > > > > Difference is the essence of avidya. Superior, inferior all included. > > > > Of course I have no locus standi on judging different paths. Pl bear with my > blabberings. > > > > Om Namas Tripurasundari > > > > > > > > NMadasamy <nmadasamy@> wrote: > > > > Quite interestingly I encounter a young man who claim to be a kuala > > and this is what he have to say "I am a kaula superior to vama > > according to scriptures" > > > > Does the scriptures actually say that? Any comments? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 What a waste of time is superiority ! NMadasamy <ashwini_puralasamy wrote: NO! All of you are wrong! Sankara Menon is wrong, Arjuna is wrong and Radhakrishnan is also wrong! Look what my good friend vikram has send me to assert his claim that he as a kuala is superior. "The Vishva-sara Tantra, says of the Kaula that "for him there is neither rule of time; nor place. His actions are unaffected either by the phases of the moon or the position of the stars. The Kaula roams the earth in differing forms. At times adhering to social rules (shishta), he at others appears, according to their standard, to be fallen (bhrashta). At times, again, he seems to be as unearthly as a ghost (bhuta or pishacha) To him no difference is there between mud and sandal paste, his son and an enemy, home and the cremation ground." "There are seven, or, as some say, nine, divisions of worshippers. The extra divisions are bracketed in the following quotation. The Kularnava Tantra mentions seven, which are given in their order of superiority, the first being the lowest: Vedachara, Vaishnavachara, Shaivachara, Dakshinachara, Vamachara, Siddhantachara (Aghorachara, Yogachara), and Kaulachara, the highest of all. The achara is the way, custom, and practice of a particular class of sadhaka. They are not, as sometimes supposed, different sects, but stages through which the worshipper in this or other births has to pass before he reaches the supreme stage of the Kaula." And Mahahradanatha wrote : I bet the one who is claiming to be akula is a christian or muslim convert or still belongs to that religion (a part time kaula)? This idea and infighting about the true path is most often a hangover from christian upbringing. Ever since this vikram make his presence in SS, my instincts been telling me that our young vikram aka vikrant aka saradapriyananda is not alone. I have concrete prove now that my instinct is right along. Yes! behind this id there is another person. A tamil christian fundie who have been using this young man with the main aim to create chaos, mockery and insulting the hindu groups. Going around citing Amritananda as "his" Guru and at the same time verbally abusing the vamacharis. By doing so, "he/she" is making a mockery of Guruji Amritananda Natha. I hate to do this, but I feel I have the obligation to inform all. , "Arjuna Taranandanatha" <bhagatirtha wrote: > > 93 > > Yes, U are right. > But then we have to agree that avidya is also a "part" of Parabrahman — because there is > no other being capable of having anything and no other location for a event to exist. > "Difference" is a quality of Brahman. Who, as Scriptures put it, "is beyond dvaita and > advaita". > > A > > , Radhakrishnan J <jayaarshree@> wrote: > > > > Nora > > Quite interestingly, upanishads describe avyakta parabrahmam using epithets like > avishesha, sadharana etc., meaning nothing special, normal, ordinary etc. Once we start > using expressions like special, superior etc., we presuppose the existance of another for > comparison purposes. But the 'being is one without a second'. Hence the assertion of > ordinariness. Yadaahyevaisha etasmin udaramantaram kurute; ata tasya bhayam bhavati > meaning the moment a person perceives differences, he is overcome with fear. Here the > reference is to primordeal fear which people like me (ignoramus) suffer from having not > attained gnana. > > > > Difference is the essence of avidya. Superior, inferior all included. > > > > Of course I have no locus standi on judging different paths. Pl bear with my > blabberings. > > > > Om Namas Tripurasundari > > > > > > > > NMadasamy <nmadasamy@> wrote: > > > > Quite interestingly I encounter a young man who claim to be a kuala > > and this is what he have to say "I am a kaula superior to vama > > according to scriptures" > > > > Does the scriptures actually say that? Any comments? > > > Traditions Divine Visit your group "" on the web. Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 I have one thing to say......does being chara this or chara that matter! you could have read all the books! had all the guru's! followed all the paths and still not got it - who gets it, how they get it......its the work of grace and of humility. Tarini Vir Rawlley <redderred wrote: What a waste of time is superiority ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 , charu jagat <charu_jagat wrote: > > I have one thing to say......does being chara this or chara that matter! you could have read all the books! had all the guru's! followed all the paths and still not got it - who gets it, how they get it......its the work of grace and of humility. > > Tarini > > Vir Rawlley <redderred wrote: > What a waste of time is superiority ! > Yes of course it does matter. In my opinion discussion and sharing of our thoughts, information and experiences on the different paths of Sadhana with Foccus on Shakti Sadhana is the aim of this group. What practical help does your posting offer or what does it add to that discussion except to proclaim the superiority of your path (bhakti) or yourself compared with others? Mahahradanatha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 vAma mArgaM vinA devi na hi siddhyanti kutracit vAmAcAraH pradhAno.atra sarveshhu darshaneshhu ca .. (tara-khanda 1.110 , sakti-sangama tantra) , > "There are seven, or, as some say, nine, divisions of worshippers. > The extra divisions are bracketed in the following quotation. The > Kularnava Tantra mentions seven, which are given in their order of > superiority, the first being the lowest: Vedachara, Vaishnavachara, > Shaivachara, Dakshinachara, Vamachara, Siddhantachara (Aghorachara, > Yogachara), and Kaulachara, the highest of all. The achara is the > way, custom, and practice of a particular class of sadhaka. They are > not, as sometimes supposed, different sects, but stages through > which the worshipper in this or other births has to pass before he > reaches the supreme stage of the Kaula." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 why is there no reply to the post from the person concerned? Vir Rawlley <redderred wrote: What a waste of time is superiority ! NMadasamy <ashwini_puralasamy wrote: NO! All of you are wrong! Sankara Menon is wrong, Arjuna is wrong and Radhakrishnan is also wrong! Look what my good friend vikram has send me to assert his claim that he as a kuala is superior. "The Vishva-sara Tantra, says of the Kaula that "for him there is neither rule of time; nor place. His actions are unaffected either by the phases of the moon or the position of the stars. The Kaula roams the earth in differing forms. At times adhering to social rules (shishta), he at others appears, according to their standard, to be fallen (bhrashta). At times, again, he seems to be as unearthly as a ghost (bhuta or pishacha) To him no difference is there between mud and sandal paste, his son and an enemy, home and the cremation ground." "There are seven, or, as some say, nine, divisions of worshippers. The extra divisions are bracketed in the following quotation. The Kularnava Tantra mentions seven, which are given in their order of superiority, the first being the lowest: Vedachara, Vaishnavachara, Shaivachara, Dakshinachara, Vamachara, Siddhantachara (Aghorachara, Yogachara), and Kaulachara, the highest of all. The achara is the way, custom, and practice of a particular class of sadhaka. They are not, as sometimes supposed, different sects, but stages through which the worshipper in this or other births has to pass before he reaches the supreme stage of the Kaula." And Mahahradanatha wrote : I bet the one who is claiming to be akula is a christian or muslim convert or still belongs to that religion (a part time kaula)? This idea and infighting about the true path is most often a hangover from christian upbringing. Ever since this vikram make his presence in SS, my instincts been telling me that our young vikram aka vikrant aka saradapriyananda is not alone. I have concrete prove now that my instinct is right along. Yes! behind this id there is another person. A tamil christian fundie who have been using this young man with the main aim to create chaos, mockery and insulting the hindu groups. Going around citing Amritananda as "his" Guru and at the same time verbally abusing the vamacharis. By doing so, "he/she" is making a mockery of Guruji Amritananda Natha. I hate to do this, but I feel I have the obligation to inform all. , "Arjuna Taranandanatha" <bhagatirtha wrote: > > 93 > > Yes, U are right. > But then we have to agree that avidya is also a "part" of Parabrahman — because there is > no other being capable of having anything and no other location for a event to exist. > "Difference" is a quality of Brahman. Who, as Scriptures put it, "is beyond dvaita and > advaita". > > A > > , Radhakrishnan J <jayaarshree@> wrote: > > > > Nora > > Quite interestingly, upanishads describe avyakta parabrahmam using epithets like > avishesha, sadharana etc., meaning nothing special, normal, ordinary etc. Once we start > using expressions like special, superior etc., we presuppose the existance of another for > comparison purposes. But the 'being is one without a second'. Hence the assertion of > ordinariness. Yadaahyevaisha etasmin udaramantaram kurute; ata tasya bhayam bhavati > meaning the moment a person perceives differences, he is overcome with fear. Here the > reference is to primordeal fear which people like me (ignoramus) suffer from having not > attained gnana. > > > > Difference is the essence of avidya. Superior, inferior all included. > > > > Of course I have no locus standi on judging different paths. Pl bear with my > blabberings. > > > > Om Namas Tripurasundari > > > > > > > > NMadasamy <nmadasamy@> wrote: > > > > Quite interestingly I encounter a young man who claim to be a kuala > > and this is what he have to say "I am a kaula superior to vama > > according to scriptures" > > > > Does the scriptures actually say that? Any comments? > > > Traditions Divine Visit your group "" on the web. Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Visit your group "" on the web. Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 93 Cool! BTW have U got Chhinnamasta-khanda of SST? It is the only one i lack... , "Adwaith Menon" <menonar wrote: > > vAma mArgaM vinA devi na hi siddhyanti kutracit > vAmAcAraH pradhAno.atra sarveshhu darshaneshhu ca .. > (tara-khanda 1.110 , sakti-sangama tantra) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 This arguing is tiresome and egotistical. It reminds me of old school scholarly Theosophists more than mystics or yogis. Kaula, vama...yada...where's the love and where's the knowledge? This is like talking about food and arguing over purported leftovers when there wasn't actually any food or leftovers. I'm starving. I must go eat...elsewhere..... - Arjuna Taranandanatha Wednesday, March 29, 2006 4:58 AM Re: Kaula superior to vama? 93 Wow! Better he took openly Islam or Christianity then, it'll be more easy to claim superiority over everyone LOL. Sad thing is, that such people spoil the name of Tantrism. Perhaps that Vikram never even met Amrita. Yes, it was doubtful from the beginning, he was overemphasizing himself being kaula, dikshita and so on... A , "NMadasamy" <ashwini_puralasamy wrote: > > NO! All of you are wrong! Sankara Menon is wrong, Arjuna is wrong > and Radhakrishnan is also wrong! Look what my good friend vikram has > send me to assert his claim that he as a kuala is superior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 i fully agree!! Thats eactly what their intention is!! Create confusion. If anyone leaves the group they have removed one rom the scene and to that extent they are successful. Hereafter I will put my foot down and insist that nothing JUST NOTHING not conneceted with sadhana be allowed. I am fed up with these tricks. Did u notice that the person responsible for the ruckus has gone completly silent?? Just watching the fun and laughing?? So lets not make ourselves laughing stocks and let nothing deter us. Llundrub <llundrub wrote: This arguing is tiresome and egotistical. It reminds me of old school scholarly Theosophists more than mystics or yogis. Kaula, vama...yada...where's the love and where's the knowledge? This is like talking about food and arguing over purported leftovers when there wasn't actually any food or leftovers. I'm starving. I must go eat...elsewhere..... - Arjuna Taranandanatha Wednesday, March 29, 2006 4:58 AM Re: Kaula superior to vama? 93 Wow! Better he took openly Islam or Christianity then, it'll be more easy to claim superiority over everyone LOL. Sad thing is, that such people spoil the name of Tantrism. Perhaps that Vikram never even met Amrita. Yes, it was doubtful from the beginning, he was overemphasizing himself being kaula, dikshita and so on... A , "NMadasamy" <ashwini_puralasamy wrote: > > NO! All of you are wrong! Sankara Menon is wrong, Arjuna is wrong > and Radhakrishnan is also wrong! Look what my good friend vikram has > send me to assert his claim that he as a kuala is superior. Visit your group "" on the web. Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 I do agree with you as to why we are here in SS. If you will notice I, as well as Charu, shared our thoughts. However for me the topic of 'superiority' does not make sense. Discussing our paths, yes. If x,y,z think their path is superior, good for them and may they progress quicker, and hopefully in compassion return and lead me too. mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha wrote: , charu jagat <charu_jagat wrote: > > I have one thing to say......does being chara this or chara that matter! you could have read all the books! had all the guru's! followed all the paths and still not got it - who gets it, how they get it......its the work of grace and of humility. > > Tarini > > Vir Rawlley <redderred wrote: > What a waste of time is superiority ! > Yes of course it does matter. In my opinion discussion and sharing of our thoughts, information and experiences on the different paths of Sadhana with Foccus on Shakti Sadhana is the aim of this group. What practical help does your posting offer or what does it add to that discussion except to proclaim the superiority of your path (bhakti) or yourself compared with others? Mahahradanatha Visit your group "" on the web. New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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