What Does Sai Baba and Swami Narayana claim themselves to be?

[vishaal]

 

swaminarayan is guru, he tought his followers to worship krishna! they didn't listen!

 

Lord Swaminarayan is not a guru, he is God.

 

Firstly when Lord Ram came upon earth he believed in Lord Shiva, in the same way when Lord Swaminaryan came upon earth he believd in Lord Krishna.

[mac00uk]

 

Lord Swaminarayan is not a guru, he is God.

 

Firstly when Lord Ram came upon earth he believed in Lord Shiva, in the same way when Lord Swaminaryan came upon earth he believd in Lord Krishna.

 

Perfectly put. But there is well more to it than that.

 

Why dont you read Swaminarayan bhagwans works and about His lifetime here on earth first. Have you guys even read the Vachnamrut? I think before anybody judges the status of any being they should first do some research on them.

 

i dont follow Shirdi Sai baba but i dont discount him or put him down in any way. As i simply havent learnt anything about him. And as a vaishnav i cant afford do just in case i offend him in any way just incase he is a Avtaar, Ansh, or Avtaar of God. As otehrwise i will have to pay for it in a big way!!!

 

I think all Vaishnavs should have such a thinking. In fact not only Vaishnavs but other followers of various panths as well.

[Guest guest]

 

Perfectly put. But there is well more to it than that.

 

Why dont you read Swaminarayan bhagwans works and about His lifetime here on earth first. Have you guys even read the Vachnamrut? I think before anybody judges the status of any being they should first do some research on them.

 

i dont follow Shirdi Sai baba but i dont discount him or put him down in any way. As i simply havent learnt anything about him. And as a vaishnav i cant afford do just in case i offend him in any way just incase he is a Avtaar, Ansh, or Avtaar of God. As otehrwise i will have to pay for it in a big way!!!

 

I think all Vaishnavs should have such a thinking. In fact not only Vaishnavs but other followers of various panths as well.

 

 

I for one dont believe just by calling someone not God and calling him a devotee is in no shape or form discrediting the personality, after all a devotee is higher than God according to God. The Vanchnamrt was written by the disciples of Swaminarayan not Swaminarayan himself. According to the Sikshapatri, Swaminarayan himself worships Radha Krishna as His Ishta-dev, so lets follow that example, Swaminarayan himself was a wonderful devotee of the Lord. He is a pure devotee of the lord. To call him God, can you imagine how embarassed he would be for you to call him that?

[Murlidhar]

Okay people here is the true Swaminarayan philosophy (BAPS)

 

There are five eternal realities:

 

Jiva (soul)

Ishwar(lord like Shri Krishna)

Maya(illusion)

Brahma or Akshar(Gods divine abode personified in Pramukh Swami)

Parabrahma-Supreme God Swaminarayan

 

This in effect they put their Guru and Swaminarayan above our Lord SHri Krishna Bhagwan:mad2: . They believe those who believe in Krishna, VIshnu, etc will go to one of the infinite Golokas or Vaikunthas in the whole universe, but at Maha Pralaya, all the MULTIPLE GOLOKAS AND VAIKUNTHAS WILL BE DESTROYED ALONG WITH THEIR DIETIES LIKE SHRI KRISHNA ONLY SWAMINARAYAN AND HIS FOLLOWERS IN AKSHARDHAM WILL REMAIN!!!

 

In the BAPS mandirs they call Shri Krishna a dev and his murti is always much smaller than Swaminarayans. The BAPS devotees and sadhus always find ways of demeaning Shri Krishna and Bhagwaan Rama and so forth. Have you seen their Delhi Akshardham which obviously is a huge project in showing off! The statues of Swaminarayan and their Guru Parampara is IN GOLD while those of Shri Krishna and the other 'devs' are in marble and MUCH MUCH SMALLER! In the houses of BAPS devotees you will only find the pictures of Swaminarayan and their gurus who they worship as if they are also god. You will not find any other murtys of Shri Krishna or Ram or any other 'avatars'. To them Lord Krishna is just an avatar, an ishwar who is BELOW MAYA. It really pisses me off when they go to INDIAN FAMILIES ASKING FOR DONATION FOR THEIR LATEST MANDIR-which look more like palaces for their "saints".

 

Jai Shri Krishna

[Guest]

Jay Shri Krishna

Jay Swaminarayan

 

BAPS are wrong anyway. I follow the original worls of Bhagwan Swaminarayan.

 

By the way teh VAchnamrut if your read it for yourself.. You can see that i cannot be spoken by normal people. Also if you look tat he divine acts of Swaminarayan you will see that He is not a mere mortal. He Himself stated that He was Bhagwan. He is shri krishna he is Shri Raam. All abodes are His and He lives in these in different forms.

 

If you read about what He did in His human form you will come to realise that HE was Bhagwan Himself.

 

All avtaars are Him. To insult an avtaar is insulting Bhagwan Purshottam Narayan Himself. Such people never get to serve Bhagwan in His abode.

 

Many believe that Swaminarayan was a great devotee, but if the ybelieve such then why dont they look at what this "great devotee" did. look at his works as a human.. and you will clearly see His divinity.

 

Jay Swmainarayan

Jay Dwarika Dheesh

Jay Gopinath

Jay Girivar Dhaari

[Murlidhar]

 

Jay Shri Krishna

Jay Swaminarayan

 

BAPS are wrong anyway. I follow the original worls of Bhagwan Swaminarayan.

 

By the way teh VAchnamrut if your read it for yourself.. You can see that i cannot be spoken by normal people. Also if you look tat he divine acts of Swaminarayan you will see that He is not a mere mortal. He Himself stated that He was Bhagwan. He is shri krishna he is Shri Raam. All abodes are His and He lives in these in different forms.

 

If you read about what He did in His human form you will come to realise that HE was Bhagwan Himself.

 

All avtaars are Him. To insult an avtaar is insulting Bhagwan Purshottam Narayan Himself. Such people never get to serve Bhagwan in His abode.

 

Many believe that Swaminarayan was a great devotee, but if the ybelieve such then why dont they look at what this "great devotee" did. look at his works as a human.. and you will clearly see His divinity.

 

Jay Swmainarayan

Jay Dwarika Dheesh

Jay Gopinath

Jay Girivar Dhaari

 

 

Jay Shri Krishna, has Sahajanand Swami been predicted in the Puranas like Kalki or Buddha? What is your position on Lord Krishna, do you think of him as Dev? Do you think Swaminarayan is greater than Krishna, why do you call Lord Krishna avataar and Swaminaryan 'avataari'? Why have all Swaminarayan "saints" accquired such a bad reputation as businessmen and having sex with prostitutes? Also where are the "original" Swaminarayan temples then and how are you different from BAPS?

[Devarsirat]

Now then there is a post which looks as if it is from me, in this thread, its a copy and paste, without any comment by me but not done by me.

 

 

I posted a new thread under world news and events which is very important. The article describes how christian and muslems and the indian government systematically destroy and blow up ancient temples.

 

please read the article and pass it on whereever you can

 

haribol

[Guest]

Yes Swaminarayan Bhagwan has been predicted in many scriptures. One of them is the Skand Puran, In the Vishnu Khand called the Vasudev Mahatmyam.

Bhagwan Shri Krishna and Sahajanand Swami are one and same. Sahajanand Swami is Avtaari Purushottam Narayan. Shri Krishna is His avatar. Hence avatar and Avtaari and they can’t be lower or greater than each other. As they both are one.

True Swaminarayan saints have never been brandished such names. There exist bad apples in every walk of life. Unfortunately when they are bought to the fore they are thought to be representing the sect, when this is definitely not the case.

Just like many Hare Krishna Sadhus have been brandished as Homosexuals and paedophiles. But we all know that in reality they do not represent the majority. The majority being true renunciates who follow a elevated path of pure divine Bhakti.

As for the business men that you brand, they are from an offshoot with their own concocted scriptures. Truth is Bhagwan Swaminarayan did not and does not wish such evil souls to represent Him and His word. Such evil persons who go by doing evil actions in the name of faith and Bhagwan Himself will be hurled into the deepest of hells.

BAPS has been created in the last 100 years not by Bhagwan Swaminarayan Himself but by a sadhu who broke away from the original sampraday which was initially established by Bhagwan. Therefore making it devoid of the original faith, which consists of two Dharmvanshi Acharyas, Scriptures, Saints and Bhakts. The originality of scriptures etc has been altered and concocted material has been produced. The original Arti etc has been changed as well as many Shlokas. BAPS also worship their gurus on the same level of Bhagwan and also many of their devotees tend to meditate on them. The original scriptures to declare that such are called vimukhs. Their way of worship (Upasna) differs a great deal as well.

BAPS hold the Avatars of Bhagwan as low and even go to the extent of saying that they to worship Purushottam Narayan like Bhakts. Which is wrong. Bhagwan Swaminarayan has clearly stated that such should not be said about the avtaars. Yet they do this. It’s a great sin, bigger than the Panch Mahapaap. Sahajanand Swami says it’s like your dearest best friend cutting one of your fingers off.

The original temples are the ones Bhagwan Himself had got built namely <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Ahmadabad</st1:place></st1:City>, Bhuj, Vadtal, Junagadh, Dholera and Gadhpur. Now any other temples which can be called to be of the Sampraday can only be consecrated by the Acharyas as only they can consecrate the Murtis through the Shri Krishna invocating mantra given to them through the Acharyas Parampara. Now no Sadhu or Bhakt can do such. These are the words of Bhagwan Swaminarayan Himself. The original authentic scriptures too declare this. These can even be seen today in the original Mandirs. We believe that only Bhagwan and His avatars are only worthy to be mediated upon. Only His worship is necessary. A guru is definitely needed but they shouldn’t be meditated upon and their Murtis shouldn’t be fed etc like Bhagwan etc. There are many huge differences. We have Paramhans gurus who teach us Ekantik or Bhagwat Dharm and elevate us in our Bhakti for Bhagwan. Teach us Dharm, Gyan and Vairagya through which we can realise the greatness of Bhagwan and attain Prem Lakshana Bhakti.

Jay Swaminarayan.

[Guest guest]

2 things:

 

1) Please avoid attacking other institutions, this does not in any way prove your institution is superior. Please stick to the point and your point was Swaminarayan is predicted in the scriptures.

 

2. Based on that shloka you are referring to it is very ambigiuous, Nara-Narayan dev's mother and father are also named Bhakti and Dharmadev.

 

And this is only one mention in the scriptures, do you have any other cross references? Why would an avatari be mentioned only once. Every other avatara has been mentioned atleast twice.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes Swaminarayan Bhagwan has been predicted in many scriptures. One of them is the Skand Puran, In the Vishnu Khand called the Vasudev Mahatmyam.

Bhagwan Shri Krishna and Sahajanand Swami are one and same. Sahajanand Swami is Avtaari Purushottam Narayan. Shri Krishna is His avatar. Hence avatar and Avtaari and they can’t be lower or greater than each other. As they both are one.

True Swaminarayan saints have never been brandished such names. There exist bad apples in every walk of life. Unfortunately when they are bought to the fore they are thought to be representing the sect, when this is definitely not the case.

Just like many Hare Krishna Sadhus have been brandished as Homosexuals and paedophiles. But we all know that in reality they do not represent the majority. The majority being true renunciates who follow a elevated path of pure divine Bhakti.

As for the business men that you brand, they are from an offshoot with their own concocted scriptures. Truth is Bhagwan Swaminarayan did not and does not wish such evil souls to represent Him and His word. Such evil persons who go by doing evil actions in the name of faith and Bhagwan Himself will be hurled into the deepest of hells.

BAPS has been created in the last 100 years not by Bhagwan Swaminarayan Himself but by a sadhu who broke away from the original sampraday which was initially established by Bhagwan. Therefore making it devoid of the original faith, which consists of two Dharmvanshi Acharyas, Scriptures, Saints and Bhakts. The originality of scriptures etc has been altered and concocted material has been produced. The original Arti etc has been changed as well as many Shlokas. BAPS also worship their gurus on the same level of Bhagwan and also many of their devotees tend to meditate on them. The original scriptures to declare that such are called vimukhs. Their way of worship (Upasna) differs a great deal as well.

BAPS hold the Avatars of Bhagwan as low and even go to the extent of saying that they to worship Purushottam Narayan like Bhakts. Which is wrong. Bhagwan Swaminarayan has clearly stated that such should not be said about the avtaars. Yet they do this. It’s a great sin, bigger than the Panch Mahapaap. Sahajanand Swami says it’s like your dearest best friend cutting one of your fingers off.

The original temples are the ones Bhagwan Himself had got built namely <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Ahmadabad</st1:place></st1:City>, Bhuj, Vadtal, Junagadh, Dholera and Gadhpur. Now any other temples which can be called to be of the Sampraday can only be consecrated by the Acharyas as only they can consecrate the Murtis through the Shri Krishna invocating mantra given to them through the Acharyas Parampara. Now no Sadhu or Bhakt can do such. These are the words of Bhagwan Swaminarayan Himself. The original authentic scriptures too declare this. These can even be seen today in the original Mandirs. We believe that only Bhagwan and His avatars are only worthy to be mediated upon. Only His worship is necessary. A guru is definitely needed but they shouldn’t be meditated upon and their Murtis shouldn’t be fed etc like Bhagwan etc. There are many huge differences. We have Paramhans gurus who teach us Ekantik or Bhagwat Dharm and elevate us in our Bhakti for Bhagwan. Teach us Dharm, Gyan and Vairagya through which we can realise the greatness of Bhagwan and attain Prem Lakshana Bhakti.

Jay Swaminarayan.

[Guest guest]

 

2 things:

 

1) Please avoid attacking other institutions, this does not in any way prove your institution is superior. Please stick to the point and your point was Swaminarayan is predicted in the scriptures.

 

2. Based on that shloka you are referring to it is very ambigiuous, Nara-Narayan dev's mother and father are also named Bhakti and Dharmadev.

 

And this is only one mention in the scriptures, do you have any other cross references? Why would an avatari be mentioned only once. Every other avatara has been mentioned atleast twice.

 

It is not ambigous to the Swaminarayan devotees.

 

Why would an avatar have to be mentioned at least twice? Why would an avatar have to traced back to Scripture at all? Who laid down these rules?

 

Cheers

[Guest]

Exactly. Did Shri Krishna state in the Gita that His thousands of avtaars or even He Himself coming on the Earth is mentioned in a scripture?

 

By the way Yes the very same Dharm and Bhakti (parents of Nar Narayan) are the same Dharm and Bhakti of Swaminarayan Bhagwan. Also if you look at the order of the Shloks you can see that the avtaars mentioned are chronologically put together. After Buddha this Shloka about Swaminarayan Bhagwan is put and after this Shloka its about Bhagwan Kalki. Read for yourself my friend.

[passionate-freak]

Stop criticizing and accept the good thing form anyone even from your enemy!!!

 

Regarding the self acclaimed Gods... why not try finding out the way the history reveals??? Try matching Janma Patri/ Kundali of Rama, Krishna,Buddha and the people claiming themselves the God!!! If they are the incarnation there must be the similarities as there is of the previous incarnations!!! It's simple. Try this and later I'll tell you who's next, the way history reveals and the way so many enlightened persons told!!!

[Guest guest]

 

Stop criticizing and accept the good thing form anyone even from your enemy!!!

 

Regarding the self acclaimed Gods... why not try finding out the way the history reveals??? Try matching Janma Patri/ Kundali of Rama, Krishna,Buddha and the people claiming themselves the God!!! If they are the incarnation there must be the similarities as there is of the previous incarnations!!! It's simple. Try this and later I'll tell you who's next, the way history reveals and the way so many enlightened persons told!!!

 

Swaminarayan isn't just an avatar, but the source of all avatars.

 

Jai Swaminarayan.

[Guest guest]

Did Shri Krishna state in the Gita that His thousands of avtaars or even He Himself coming on the Earth is mentioned in a scripture?

 

By the way Yes the very same Dharm and Bhakti (parents of Nar Narayan) are the same Dharm and Bhakti of Swaminarayan Bhagwan. Also if you look at the order of the Shloks you can see that the avtaars mentioned are chronologically put together. After Buddha this Shloka about Swaminarayan Bhagwan is put and after this Shloka its about Bhagwan Kalki. Read for yourself my friend.

 

 

Why would an avatar have to be mentioned at least twice? Why would an avatar have to traced back to Scripture at all? Who laid down these rules?

 

Swaminarayan isn't just an avatar, but the source of all avatars.

 

Jai Swaminarayan.

[Guest guest]

Guys you are acting blunt.

 

I guess I read someone telling to bring the Janam Kundali of Rama, Krishna, Buddha and see if there're any similarities. If you guys are so sure of so called Gods are really the incarnation of Lord Krishna then why don't you match theirs to earlier incarnations???

 

You all are wasting time to prove yourself the master and the better-known-personality-type. It's making a whole lotta people sick here. Come out of your dirty seclusion and try flying in new style and watch how enormous the sky is !!!

 

Anyone with perseverance can attain the state so called Gods got.

 

I pray the Lord of the Lords to grant you an inner eyes to see through the truth. Stop rounded arguments.

 

regards

[Guest guest]

Purshottam Narayan doesnt have to be proven to nobody. He is He. I believe firmly that Swaminarayan is Purshottam Narayan. My bhakti towards Him is my everything. He is my Upasya Ishtadev and always will remain so. If people dont liek listening to this then thats a problem for themselves. Do your own research as i have done mine.

[passionate-freak]

Stop arguing guys...

try walking path of theirs...

and the knowledge itself shower upon you with all the answers.

 

regards

[Guest guest]

 

Stop arguing guys...

try walking path of theirs...

and the knowledge itself shower upon you with all the answers.

 

regards

 

you make no sense

[passionate-freak]

People are happy arguing. The path the great personalities like Paramhamsa Swami Nikhileshorananda, Mahaveera, Ram Krishna Paramhamsa, Mahavataar Baba, even Shree Krishna is the tough to be followed. With a afraid heart we indulge ourself in discussing what they are and what they are not.

 

Kali is the worst and the worst of its time has arrived. THis is time to elevate ourself. Stop arguing and try finding someone true to guide us on the path of real happiness. I guess it worths seraching.

 

From the lives of so many great personality and their teachings we gotta conclude how we gonna live, live like an insect or .......

Simply following any great personalities won't make you that great, instead you are mere a follower creating a sect. Live for something high.

 

Why should we talk about people? What stops us from being like one of them??? Why can't we be like them? THey were humans and we too are. What they got, we too possess. THen why this much of backwardness???

 

I don't mean any offence. Ive spoken the inner voices of millions of souls...

 

may the peace, prospertiy and the love prevail.

 

regards

[passionate-freak]

 

you make no sense

 

Dear guest,

I couldn't quite catch you up??? I mean to say that why don't we try being like one of them rather arguing on them???

[nav]

 

Srila Prabupada has strictly mentioned not to fall prey to anyone claiming themselves to be GODS,its a big sin to not follow Krsna and consider some one else as GOD.

 

 

As you guys beleive in the words of your guru Srila Prabupada, In the same way the guru parampara of swaminarayan sampraday (BAPS) has explained the Supremacy of Lord Swaminarayan over the other Avatars. Mul Akshar Murti Gunatitanand Swami (The Incarnation of Akshar Brahman) has explained the Sumpremacy of Lord Swaminarayan clearly. Not only that, the paramhansas have written their own experiences with Lord Swaminarayan and about his Supremacy.

 

Other thing is that the Swaminarayan fellowship is a proper Sampraday, It has its own concept of Tatva Gnan given by Lord Swaminarayan i.e., about Jiva, Ishwara, Maya, Brahman and Para Brahman. It has its own Bhashya on Gita and other Scriptures. The concepts of Brahman and Para Brahman is crystal clear in BAPS. And also the process of Jiva's Atyantik Moksha is very clear i.e., we have to become Brahmanised and then do the Bhakti of ParaBrahman(Lord Swaminarayan). The Abode of Lord Swaminarayan is Akshardham and is not either Vaikunth or Golok or Badrikashram. With so much in this sect, it cannot be compared to any rootless organisations. There can be no comparison of Swaminarayan Sampraday with Sai Baba or any other Sects of Hinduism.

 

Jai Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

First of all.. Swaminarayan Bhagwan nor Sadguru Gunatitanand Swami has ever mentioned a Gunatit Parampara nor have they ever mentioned Swami as incarnation of Akshar. Swamis VAtus (the exact one by Vignanand Swami) is currently in Rajkot Mandir.Therein there is no mention of a Akshar Purshottam Upasna.

 

Secondly BAPS came into existence in 1907. So truth is that it does not follow the correct way of worship.Truth is that the knowledge of the Panch Anadi namely Jiv, Ishwar, Maya, Brahamn and Parbrahman are crystal clear within the Orthodox Swaminarayan Samraday that today is under the guidance of the Dharmvanshi Acharyas.

 

Am i wrong?

 

Jay Swaminarayan.

[nav]

 

First of all.. Swaminarayan Bhagwan nor Sadguru Gunatitanand Swami has ever mentioned a Gunatit Parampara nor have they ever mentioned Swami as incarnation of Akshar. Swamis VAtus (the exact one by Vignanand Swami) is currently in Rajkot Mandir.Therein there is no mention of a Akshar Purshottam Upasna.

 

Secondly BAPS came into existence in 1907. So truth is that it does not follow the correct way of worship.Truth is that the knowledge of the Panch Anadi namely Jiv, Ishwar, Maya, Brahamn and Parbrahman are crystal clear within the Orthodox Swaminarayan Samraday that today is under the guidance of the Dharmvanshi Acharyas.

 

Am i wrong?

 

Jay Swaminarayan.

 

 

Dear Friend,

 

First of all answer to your question:"Yes you are Wrong"

 

I never said that Guru parampara is Mentioned in any Scriptures. In Gadhada I-71 where maharaj says that when ever Bhagwan comes on to this earth, he comes along with his Akshardhaam and Muktas....It shows that Maharaj bought his Akshardhaam along with him. At many occasions Maharaj has said that Gunatitanad Swami is Mul Akshar. Read his Jevan Charitra. Shastriji Maharaj's guru Vignananand Swami was a Paramhans of Shreeji Maharaj. Shastriji Maharaj cleaared this point with him that Gunatitanand Swami is Mul Akshar, He cleared the same point with Adbhutanand Swami who was a paramhans of Maharaj and also many other. Balmukund Swami, Prakgji Bhakt, Jaga Swami and many other direct disciples of Gunatitanand Swami explained this point.

 

Acharya Shri Raghuvirji Maharaj quoted Bhagwan Swaminarayan when he referred to Gunatitanand Swami Maharaj as his 'Akshardham, within whom he forever resides in.' Shri Harililakalpatru VII/17:49, 50.

 

Shri Viharilalji Maharaj referred to Gunatitanand Swami as Akshar Murti Gunatitanand Swami Maharaj in his Kirtan Kaustubhamala.

 

Similar references can be found in the kirtans of Jerami Brahmachari, Akhandanand Brahmachari, and Jagdishanand Brahmachari of Junagadh.

 

The small shrine erected at the spot where Gunatitanand Swami Maharaj used to sit in Junagadh has the inscription, "Anadi Mul Akshar Murti Gunatitanand Swami sat here for 40 years."

 

shrine constructed on the site of Gunatitanand Swami Maharaj's final rites only a few years after his passing was called 'Akshar Deri'.

 

These many points show that Gunatitanand Swami is Mul Akshar.

 

It was hard for people to believe Maharaj as Sarvopari then imagine how hard would it be to accept Gunatitanand Swami to be Mul Akshar. Thats why Vignananand Swami didn't say it openly.

 

Now talkin about Guru Parampara, the gurus are no different but Akshar Brahman himself. Its just the outer appearance is changing but the entity remains Akshar, because in order to attain Brahmic State one requires Brahman himself. It was with the samgam of Gunatitanad Swami, Acharaya Raghuvirji Maharaj attained Brahmic state. Even Shreeji maharaj said to his Paramhansas that every year all of you should spend one month at Junagadh and if you do this-"Karod janam ni kasar aa ne aa janme kadhi lesh". These were the words spoken by maharaj.

 

Even though BAPS was formed in 1907, Akshar Purushottam Upasana existed since eternity. Maharaj himself says that Uttam Nirvikalp Nishcay is attained only when you become Brahmroop(Loya 12). Before Shastriji Maharaj, Bhagatji Maharaj also spread the Akshar Purushottam Upasana in Satsang. Sitting in Vadtal Shastriji Maharaj installed Akshar Purushottam in Vadhwan. He could have spread the Upasana even without leaving vadtal, He never got such a thought in his mind. Because it came upon his life, Krishnaji Ada asked him to leave vadtal. The formation in 1907 was only an official thing, But Akshar Purushottam Upasana existed since time immemorial.

 

Why is BAPS wrong?????? Never in their lives did Bhagatji Maharaj, Shastriji Maharaj, Yogiji Maharaj and today Pramukh Swami Maharaj broke any Aagna of Shreeji Maharaj. Look at the Ashtang Brahmacharya the Sadhus are following, the detachment from wealth. Even every Satsangi of BAPS follows the Stree Purush Marayada properly. Shreeji Maharaj and Gunatitanand Swami are ParaBrahman and Brahman rescpetively. Therefore Maharaj and his Uttam Bhakt exists since anadi. Acharya came into existance after maharaj appeared on earth. No where in the Scriptures of the Sampraday, it is said that Acharya is Moksh nu dwar. It is Satpurush who is Moksh nu Dwar. Gadhada I-27, Shreeji Maharaj States that he resides in every Indriya of his Ekantik Sant and not Acharya. Vadtal 5, Madhya 13 and many more vachanmruts, Bhaktachintamani the whole first Prakran, Nishkulanand Kavya and many other state a lot of Mahima about Sant. Mahraj has referred only twice the acharyas in the Vachanamrut, But he has referred to the SANT so many times.

 

Never did Shastriji Maharaj, Yogiji Maharaj and Pramukh Swami Maharaj spoke ill about Acharyas. But when it came to the Siddhant they never compromised with that. Even Prahalad knew that Mother and Father sholud be served as god but when it came to his Bhakti he never compromised either. Pramukh Swami has always respected the Acharayas and the Vadtal Sadhus. Look around the world and try to find a true Swaminarayan Sadhu as pure as Pramukh Swami Maharaj. Maharaj 100% resides where his Siddhant presides.

 

I had no intention to criticise the Acharyas, Sorry if said any thing to hurt your feelings. Even I respect the Acharyas but moksha is not through him because look at what has happened to the Sadhuta of the Sadhus their. How can ones jiva become shuddh in such evironment. With all due respect to the Acharayas, Moksh nu Dwar is Satpurush. In Vadtal 10 last paragraph Maharaj says-" If God is not present on earth then one should take the refuge of the Sadhu who has met god and if no such sadhu is present then take the refuge of the Murtis, Liberation is done through them" No where did Maharaj say to take acharyas refuge, he mentioned Sadhu or Murtis. Pramukh Swami is such a Sadhu who can purify us and guide us to Liberation.

 

Jai Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

I have read Maharaj’s Jivan Charitra. I have read Satsangi Bhushan, Harililamrut, Satsangi Jivan, Vachnamrut and more but I have never come across anywhere where Bhagwan states that Guntitanand Swami is Akshar. Yes He comes with His Dham. But His Dham was Sadguru Gopalanand Swami. Nishkulanand Swami Himself stated this and also the Kariyani Akshar Oradi says so too, there are inscriptions all over the wall..by Nishkulanand Swami. But we do not place him beside Bhagwan on the throne. As this type of Upasna is against the wishes of the Lord and also if you read the Ramanuj Bhashya you will learn this too.

 

Also Acharya Raguvirji Maharaj in the Harililakalpatru states that Gunatiatand Swami is a Brahm Swarup saint. Which is true but he does not state that Swami is Akshar.

 

Also the Kirtan Kastubhmala that the original Sampraday holds refers to no such thing. Just like BAPS have altered the Arti they have to edited many scriptures. I’m afraid it has to be said. You of course will be bias and look at this from one perspective and not from the original orthodox scriptures of the Sampraday. The name of ‘Akshar Deri’ in Gondal was given by BAPS and not the original Sampraday. As Gunatitanand Swamis birth place in Bhadra belongs to Amdavad Gadi and a recent yagna was done there by the Acharya to commemorate this.

 

You stating that Pramukh Swami are Akshar incarnate? Raguvirji Maharaj attained Brahmik state by Sadguru Gopalanand Swami and Sadguru Gunatitanand Swami also asked Shriji Maharaj that he would only remain Mahant of Junagadh temple if Gopalanand Swami came once a year to give him samagam. Nurgin Swamis vato and Gopalanand Samis vato clearly indicate this.

 

Also where is the reference of Shirji Maharaj stating about samagam of Swami in Junagadh to Paramhans? Also the original Sampraday do not argue over becoming Brahmroop. We all have to realise ourselves as Brahm and worship Parbrahm. So this doesn’t vouch for BAPS at all. So Akshar Purushottam Upasna existing from time immemorial is false. Why didn’t Bhagwan state such in any of the scriptures then? If this was also the case then why didn’t Bhagwan construct even one Mandir of Akshar and Purushottam even though He consecrated His own Murti in Vadtal of Harikrishna Maharaj etc. Why isn’t such a Upansa mentioned in any of the scriptures? When Bhagwan carried out His antardhyaan lila He himself stated that His work was now over and nothing more was left to be done. The Satsangi Bhushan and many other scriptures state this. Then Why Didn’t Bhagwan mentions that Akshar Purshottam Mandirs are still needed. The answer is crystal clear to those who read the authentic scriptures of the Sampraday.

 

Shastriji Maharaj also made a mistake of consecrating a Mandir without the Dharmkul Acharyas permission. Also he didn’t ask the acharya to carry out the murti pratishtha rights. Whereas even Sadguru Gpalanand Swami went with Raghuvirji Maharaj to do murti pratishtha of Mandirs like Buranpur etc after Bhagwan went Dhaam. HE didn’t carry out the Pratishtha Himself.

 

BAPS have broken many agnas. The yhave never complied with the Desh Vibhaag lekh and even the Satsnagi Jivan. As for Brahmcharya.. well if you go onto any of the Mandirs today under the Dharmkul Gadis many bhakts and Santos are performing Brahmcharya. For example Bhuj Santo!!

 

If you read the Purshottam Prakash and Nishkulanand Kavya it is clearly written that the Acharya is the fourth Moksh Nu Dwaar. So my friend it is clearly seen that you are not reading the Shastras of the Sampraday at all. By the way the Acharays are not ordinary people they are the vansh of Pradyumna and Sankarshan (Rampratap and Icharam. If they were not to be worshipped the why did Bhagwan place them on the Gadis? Also why did saints like Sadguru Gunatitanand Swami and Gopalanand Swami write and talk so highly of them in their vatos?? That is if you are reading the unedited versions.

 

What makes you think that only a Sadhu is a sant? A sant is he who possesses 32 qualities. Now this can be a Grahast or a Sanyasi. You state many foolish things. In Gadhada I-27 Bhagwan doesn’t state that “resides in every indiriya of a saint and not acharya”. LOL. You are making this up. As He states clearly that He resides in a sants Indriyas. But He does not state “not acharya”. As an Acharya too can be a sant. Like Raja Janakji was. We don’t downgrade sanos. We hold Santos very high in our Sampraday. For example I am from the Kutch region of India. Also, if you go Bhuj Mandir under Nar Narayan dev they are carrying out every niyam of Bhagwan and especially in terms of Agna and upasna to the fullest. Its not a case of who is mentioned more. It is a case of how Upansa should be carried out. The BAPS website itself states ill of an Acharya so what to talk of the santos of BAPS? The yhave doen vachan droh and guru droh of Bhagwan Swaminarayan Siddhants. You sa look around the world and find a true saint. I don’t have to. Do you even know about saints like Shriharidas Swami, Balkrushna das swami, Mahant Swami of Bhuj, PAtitpavan Swami of Bhuj etc? I can find hundreds upon hundreds. You seem to think Pramukh Swami is one and that’s it. I don’t want to take Avgun but truth is I don’t think Pramuks Swama matches even one of the Sacha Sant category as the ones io mentioned do. The ydont sit on bug thrones and ride in fancy cars even if their followers want them do. Even Gunataitand Swamis vato indicate that we (santo) should eat only bajro and chaas once a day. This shows and is an example of how simple a saint should be and were in them days. If Gunatitanand Swami wanted he too had the ability to get worshipped o thrones and be worshipped alone but he never did this. Big Bhakts and Darbaars offered him many greta chairs same with Brahmanand Swam etc. But they never once accepted such. You say look around the word well I say I don’t have to and I can find true saints that don’t wish to be carried out puja onto nor sit on thrones and name them in the hundreds if you like. Maybe you should go visit them and see for yourselves.

 

By the way the Sadhus in Vartal who carried out the bad karmkaands, well this wasn’t the wish of the original Samprady. Bad apples exist everywhere and always will. Even at the time of Shriji Maharaj the Nand Santos such as Hariharanand Swami and Nirvikalpanand Swami fought many times. Just because of the few bad apples we cannot say that all apples are bad in the whole market that sells them my friend. Also the true Sadhus all get painted with one brush because of such incidents by a minority of the Sadhus. I mean this happens in evry sampraday. Even BAPS have heard many things occurring but I know that it wouldn’t be the same for all the Sadhus there. Please don’t be hurt by any of my statements. By the way my guru has also communicated with Bhagwan many times. He knows the whole Vachnamrut by heart too. Many such saints exist. But you seem to think different.

 

The Acharyas of the Sampraday are more than mere administrative heads. They are the spiritual leaders and the Guru through whom the path to atyantik kalyan (ultimate redemption) is opened.

Sahajanand Swami adopted Ayodhyaprasadji from His elder brother Rampratapji and adopted Raghuvirji from His younger brother Ichcharamji. He accepted the two as His own sons and handed the Northern- NarNarayan Dev Desh (diocese) to Ayodhyaprasadji and the Southern- LakshmiNarayan Dev Desh to Raghuvirji in Vadtal on VS 1882 (1826 AD) Kartik Sud 11 - Prabodhini Ekadashi (ironically on the very same day He was given the Acharya-pad by Ramanand Swami).

The NarNarayan Desh is based in Amdavad (Ahmedabad) and LakshmiNarayan Desh in Vadtal. Though known as NarNarayan Dev and Lakshminarayan Dev Gadi, both are the Swaminarayan Gadis as they are the only authentic gadis established by Lord Swaminarayan Himself.

The Acharyas are householders and their respective wives (Gadiwala) stand as the females’ Guru. The Gadi is passed on to the most capable of the Sons from their family.

The Acharya’s role is to

• initiate followers into the Sampraday with a Samanya Diksha by giving the special guru-mantra

• initiate sadhus (monks, ascetics) by giving them the Maha-Bhagwadi Diksha

• perform murti-pratishtha, install deities in the temples

• authenticate scriptures of the Sampraday

• act as the Guru and leader of the entire Sampraday.

These responsibilities have been prescribed in the Shikshapatri, Satsangijeevan and Desh Vibhag no Lekh, and according to these shastras no other individual other than the Dharmavanshi Acharyas are permitted to carry out the above duties. Therefore, the sole authority of the above lies with the two Acharyas.

“My Bhramin, Kshatriya and Vaishya followers who have received Shri Krshna Diksha (initiation) from the Dharmavanshi (descendants of Dharmadev) Acharyas, shall wear a double tulsi kanthi (rosary) around their neck and shall wear a U-shaped tilak on their forehead, chest, and both harms.” (Shikshapatri Shlok 41)

Therefore, a Swaminarayan follower is only a genuine Swaminarayan follower once he has received diksha from the respective Acharya. A Swaminarayan sadhu is only a genuine Swaminarayan sadhu once he has been given diksha by the Acharyas.

In the Shikshapatri (62), Swaminarayan Bhagwan clearly states

“And the form of Shri Krshna that has been given by your Acharya for the purpose of your worship and the forms that the Acharya has installed (i.e. in the mandirs) are the only forms of God worthy of worship. The rest are worthy of respect but not worthy of worship”

Therefore, the only murtis (deities) worthy of worship are those installed by the Acharyas.

In the Shikshapatri, Swaminarayan Bhagwan has placed a lot of importance on the Acharyas.

Shlok 71:

“All my followers shall never enter into debate with their Acharyas and shall serve the Acharyas with food, clothing, money etc according to their capacity.”

Shlok 72:

“Upon hearing of their coming, my followers should immediately go to greet and welcome the arrival of their Acharyas, and when the Acharya returns from the town my followers shall see them off to the outskirts of the town.”

In the scripture Purushottam Prakash, the writer Nishkulanand Swami describes the instance when Swaminarayan Bhagwan established the Dharmavanshi Acharyas.

Sahajanand Swami felt that now that He had established the grand temples and splendid Sampraday, He wanted to keep His sadhus free from the affairs dealing with wealth, power etc. He therefore decided that He would create leaders for each and every sadhu and householder, who will subsequently be responsible for the Sampraday.

This was in accordance with one of His three resolves; i.e. to establish the leaders of the Sampraday from His own family - Dharmakul.

Before declaring His intention to select His own family, Lord Shree Swaminarayan first gathered the senior sadhus/saints and followers and revealed His intention to install successors to the leadership.

The gathering that included seniors such as S.G. Muktanand Swami, S.G. Gopalanand Swami, S.G. Brahmanand Swami etc. as well as householders such as Dada- Uttam Khachar, unanimously recommended to Lord Shree Swaminarayan that He retain the leadership in His own Dharmakul and select Ayodhyaprasadji or Raghuvirji.

Lord Shree Swaminarayan was very pleased with this suggestion, for this was His own thinking as well. Since there was no room for discussion or further consideration, it was concluded that Lord Shree Swaminaryan's successors will be from His own Dharmakul and will be householders.

Sahajanand Swami then adopted Ayodhyaprasadji and Raghuvirprasadji as His own sons and made them the Acharyas – the Gurus of the Swaminarayan Sampraday.

He then declared, “Those who serve these Acharyas with food, jewellery, vehicles, animals, flowers etc shall be worthy of Akshardham…………. I shall emancipate those who serve and respect these Acharyas. Through these Acharyas I shall give kalyaan (give Akshardham) to all souls………." (Purushottam Prakash Chapter 37, Verse 6-20)

“…After a lot of thought and consideration I have decided to give the Gadi to them…” (Chapter 39 Verse 8)

“Therefore all of you shall obey the Dharamkul and serve them. They are not ordinary beings; they are great Devtas (Gods). As well as being my Sons they are Brahmin and my Bhaktas and by serving them you shall earn immense happiness. All your wishes will be fulfilled, this is my command that is to remain permanently.”

“So both householders and sadhus obey their (Acharyas’) commands, and not the fancies of the mind. Do not take any actions without their consent…..do not enter into debates with them even if you are greater in knowledge or wisdom…you shall regard the Acharyas as faultless – you shall obey their commands. If you keep them pleased then I will be pleased with you because they are in place of Myself….. I am forever residing in them. I am in them, and they are in Me. I am never far from them and I give darshan (divine sightings) residing in them……….”

“I am forever residing in the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. After seeing such followers I have decided to remain here (in the satsang), therefore those who worship the Acharyas have worshipped Me.”

(Purushottam Prakash Chapter 40)

The establishment of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas was therefore immensely important for both administrative and spiritual purposes.

The constitution of the Sampraday is laid out in Desh Vibhag no Lekh, which describes in detail the functions of the Acharyas.

“….it is my command to all sadhus, bhramcharis and all satsangi's, that for the purpose of your kalyaan (emancipation) you must obey and follow the two Acharyas of Dharmavansh, and obey their commands by thought, action and speech. If this is compromised and whoever turns elsewhere (rejecting the Acharyas) will find that they will never find sukh (happiness) in this world or the worlds beyond and will experience immense distress…” (Desh Vibhag no Lekh)

Furthermore, in one of the most authoritative scriptures the Vachamanamrut, Swaminarayan Bhagwan clearly states one of the prerequisites for attaining Akshardham

“…The devotee who is aashrit of Dharmakul (i.e. he who has received initiation from Dharmavanshi Acharya and remains loyal to the Acharya) gets a divine Brahm-state body by God’s wish…” (Vachanamrut, Gadhada Pratham Chapter 1)

So it is imperative to be a humble loyal follower of the Dharmavanshi Acharya once receiving the diksha (guru mantra) in order to be qualified to achieve a Brahm form.

Even Gunatitanand Swami, one of the main sadhus of Swaminarayan Bhagwan states “He who insults the temples, Acharyas, sadhus and satsangi’s will find his roots being destroyed and will inevitably fall from the satsang.” (Swami ni Vato Prakran 5, Vat 104)

Sahajanand Swami has decided to remain on this earth in His Acharyas. They are a version of Him. Being Purushottam Narayan Bhagwan, Sahajanand Swami kept an eternal method of attaining Akshardham by first requiring followers to obtain gurumantra or diksha and obey and respect the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. This is a system, which He has established for each and every follower. It was not a system that was to be changed or altered in the future in any way.

In S.G. Nityanand Swami's Shree Hari-Digvijay (endorsed by Lord Shree Swaminarayan) a debate between many great Vedic pundit- scholars and Lord Shree Swaminarayan is well documented.

The pundits challenge Lord Shree Swaminarayan's establishment of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. It was argued that a householder being a leader of renunciates (sadhus etc.) was anti-Vedic and had no firm basis in the scriptures of the Sanatan Dharma.

Lord Shree Swaminarayan explained in detail how it is in fact preferable to have householders leading a fellowship that consists of male and female renunciates and grihastha - householders.

He provided scriptural evidence for this and stated examples such Vyasji, the founder of the 4 Vedas and 18 Purans and considered the 'Universal Guru' in whose memory we have 'Guru-Poornima'.

Rishi Vyas was in fact a householder. Similarly, Rishis Vasishta and Yagyavalkya were also householders as was Brahmarshi Vishwamitra. A more distinct example is of Shukadevji, who recited the Srimad Bhagwat to King Parikshit, was a shishya (disciple) of King Janaka.

Therefore, the gathering of pandits and scholars agreed that the setup of Dharmavanshi Acharyas was more than coherent with the Vedic Dharmas and was worthy of honour and admiration.

Today there exist many sects that claim they are following the philosophies of Shree Swaminarayan Bhagwan, where in fact nothing could be further from the truth. As Swaminarayan Bhagwan has emphasised, there is no Akshardham for those who do not honour, obey, respect and serve the Dharmavanshi Acharyas, no matter how great a devotee they are.

It has now become necessary to question ‘Swaminarayan Temples’ whether they are in fact Swaminarayan Temples since the deities appear not to have been installed by the Dharmavanshi Acharyas, which is an outright breach of Swaminarayan Bhagwan’s likings (refer Shikshapatri Shlok 10 and then Shlok 62).

It has also become necessary to question the authenticity of ‘Swaminarayan’ sadhus. According to the scriptures mentioned, a Swaminarayan Sadhu is he who has received the initiation (maha-bhagwati diksha) from Dharmavanshi Acharya- no one else.

Once this has been appreciated, one can realise the true grandeur of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. They are another form of Swaminarayan Bhagwan and though they appear as humans, they are at a status even higher than Akshar-Muktas. Therefore all Swaminarayan Satsangis should obtain initiation from one of the two Dharmavanshi Acharyas and remain under their instructions and always honour and respect them as they would Swaminarayan Bhagwan Himself.

 

 

 

I would like to clear first that I was follower of BAPS since child hood, and now (at the age of 25th year) I have joined Original Sampraday by asking some questions to 1st line saints of BAPS. Please make a note that these all questions were unanswered by leading saints of BAPS. I have tried to ask these questiones to leading followers of BAPS, but as and when I asked questions they got provoked and could not answer.

 

I want to ask these all question to all BAPS followers, 1. Do you do whatever Pramukh swami maharaj say?

 

2. If yes, Pramukh swami maharaj has told in "Pramukhswami ni amrut vani" that, every satsangi should read books published by the seal of Acharya maharaj.

 

3. So did you try to read these books?

 

4. Did you read Shikshapatri? (Full version, not only Sukti ratna). which is stating that Murties which are established by Acharya should only be worshipped, other murties should not be worshipped but may be paid respect.

 

5. So please decide which murty are you worshipping? Established by Lord Swaminarayan Himself or by Gurus of BAPS.

 

6. In shikshapatri shlok Shree Hari has written that "Dharmado" should be given to the temples which I have built ("AAne me je sthapela Lakshminarayan aadik dev mandir..."). So please ask your self that are you giving dharmada to these Hari sthapit temples?

 

7. In shikshapatri , shree Hari has written that All sadhues MUST take Diksha from Acharya. So the other sadhus including your all Gurues (except Shashtriji Maharaj who was made "VIMUKH" from Vadtal temple) are not at all swaminarayan saits.

 

8. I think all satsangies Must read Desh Vibhag lekh, which is written by Shree Hari in the presence of all leading satsangies, and sadhus at that time. In this bhagwan has told that "Je koi mara sthapela dharma thi aalag aashram sthapshe te Guru Drohi chhe, vachan drohi chhe, ane te Jarur aa lok ne vishe ane parlok ne vishe mota kashta ne pamshe".

 

5. Did you read Bhaktachintamani? In which many a time Lord has said that all must follow Acharya's Agya.

 

6. Do you know that when any new sait is taking diksha in BAPS, then he is driven to Nar Narayan dev temple first.

 

7. Do you know that when ever Pramukh swami maharaj is coming to Gadhada, he visits Gopinathji Maharaj Temple to worship without fail. So please, if you want to go Akhardham then you all should read Shikshapatri, Vachanamrit (read whole, not some paragraphs which is instructed by BAPS temple), Bhaktachintamani, Satsangi Jivan (some days before in Dadar BAPS satsang sabha, mahant swami of dadar has also told to read satsangi Jivan) and Understand that without any bias. You will realise that through original sampraday only, one can get Akhardham.

 

8. At last but not list , the last shlok of shikshapatri -"Je aa shikhapatri pramane vartshe tene Dharma, Arth, Kam, ane Moksha (Akhardham) malshe, and je nahi varte te to AMARA DHARMA THI BAHER CHHE tem janvu."

 

Now its upto you whether you want to follow word of Lord Swaminarayan, or words of Gurus (who are miss leading to all)

 

 

Jay Swaminarayan

[Guest]

I have read Maharaj’s Jivan Charitra. I have read Satsangi Bhushan, Harililamrut, Satsangi Jivan, Vachnamrut and more but I have never come across anywhere where Bhagwan states that Guntitanand Swami is Akshar. Yes He comes with His Dham. But His Dham was Sadguru Gopalanand Swami. Nishkulanand Swami Himself stated this and also the Kariyani Akshar Oradi says so too, there are inscriptions all over the wall..by Nishkulanand Swami. But we do not place him beside Bhagwan on the throne. As this type of Upasna is against the wishes of the Lord and also if you read the Ramanuj Bhashya you will learn this too.

 

Also Acharya Raguvirji Maharaj in the Harililakalpatru states that Gunatiatand Swami is a Brahm Swarup saint. Which is true but he does not state that Swami is Akshar.

 

Also the Kirtan Kastubhmala that the original Sampraday holds refers to no such thing. Just like BAPS have altered the Arti they have to edited many scriptures. I’m afraid it has to be said. You of course will be bias and look at this from one perspective and not from the original orthodox scriptures of the Sampraday. The name of ‘Akshar Deri’ in Gondal was given by BAPS and not the original Sampraday. As Gunatitanand Swamis birth place in Bhadra belongs to Amdavad Gadi and a recent yagna was done there by the Acharya to commemorate this.

 

You stating that Pramukh Swami are Akshar incarnate? Raguvirji Maharaj attained Brahmik state by Sadguru Gopalanand Swami and Sadguru Gunatitanand Swami also asked Shriji Maharaj that he would only remain Mahant of Junagadh temple if Gopalanand Swami came once a year to give him samagam. Nurgin Swamis vato and Gopalanand Samis vato clearly indicate this.

 

Also where is the reference of Shirji Maharaj stating about samagam of Swami in Junagadh to Paramhans? Also the original Sampraday do not argue over becoming Brahmroop. We all have to realise ourselves as Brahm and worship Parbrahm. So this doesn’t vouch for BAPS at all. So Akshar Purushottam Upasna existing from time immemorial is false. Why didn’t Bhagwan state such in any of the scriptures then? If this was also the case then why didn’t Bhagwan construct even one Mandir of Akshar and Purushottam even though He consecrated His own Murti in Vadtal of Harikrishna Maharaj etc. Why isn’t such a Upansa mentioned in any of the scriptures? When Bhagwan carried out His antardhyaan lila He himself stated that His work was now over and nothing more was left to be done. The Satsangi Bhushan and many other scriptures state this. Then Why Didn’t Bhagwan mentions that Akshar Purshottam Mandirs are still needed. The answer is crystal clear to those who read the authentic scriptures of the Sampraday.

 

Shastriji Maharaj also made a mistake of consecrating a Mandir without the Dharmkul Acharyas permission. Also he didn’t ask the acharya to carry out the murti pratishtha rights. Whereas even Sadguru Gpalanand Swami went with Raghuvirji Maharaj to do murti pratishtha of Mandirs like Buranpur etc after Bhagwan went Dhaam. HE didn’t carry out the Pratishtha Himself.

 

BAPS have broken many agnas. The yhave never complied with the Desh Vibhaag lekh and even the Satsnagi Jivan. As for Brahmcharya.. well if you go onto any of the Mandirs today under the Dharmkul Gadis many bhakts and Santos are performing Brahmcharya. For example Bhuj Santo!!

 

If you read the Purshottam Prakash and Nishkulanand Kavya it is clearly written that the Acharya is the fourth Moksh Nu Dwaar. So my friend it is clearly seen that you are not reading the Shastras of the Sampraday at all. By the way the Acharays are not ordinary people they are the vansh of Pradyumna and Sankarshan (Rampratap and Icharam. If they were not to be worshipped the why did Bhagwan place them on the Gadis? Also why did saints like Sadguru Gunatitanand Swami and Gopalanand Swami write and talk so highly of them in their vatos?? That is if you are reading the unedited versions.

 

What makes you think that only a Sadhu is a sant? A sant is he who possesses 32 qualities. Now this can be a Grahast or a Sanyasi. You state many foolish things. In Gadhada I-27 Bhagwan doesn’t state that “resides in every indiriya of a saint and not acharya”. LOL. You are making this up. As He states clearly that He resides in a sants Indriyas. But He does not state “not acharya”. As an Acharya too can be a sant. Like Raja Janakji was. We don’t downgrade sanos. We hold Santos very high in our Sampraday. For example I am from the Kutch region of India. Also, if you go Bhuj Mandir under Nar Narayan dev they are carrying out every niyam of Bhagwan and especially in terms of Agna and upasna to the fullest. Its not a case of who is mentioned more. It is a case of how Upansa should be carried out. The BAPS website itself states ill of an Acharya so what to talk of the santos of BAPS? The yhave doen vachan droh and guru droh of Bhagwan Swaminarayan Siddhants. You sa look around the world and find a true saint. I don’t have to. Do you even know about saints like Shriharidas Swami, Balkrushna das swami, Mahant Swami of Bhuj, PAtitpavan Swami of Bhuj etc? I can find hundreds upon hundreds. You seem to think Pramukh Swami is one and that’s it. I don’t want to take Avgun but truth is I don’t think Pramuks Swama matches even one of the Sacha Sant category as the ones io mentioned do. The ydont sit on bug thrones and ride in fancy cars even if their followers want them do. Even Gunataitand Swamis vato indicate that we (santo) should eat only bajro and chaas once a day. This shows and is an example of how simple a saint should be and were in them days. If Gunatitanand Swami wanted he too had the ability to get worshipped o thrones and be worshipped alone but he never did this. Big Bhakts and Darbaars offered him many greta chairs same with Brahmanand Swam etc. But they never once accepted such. You say look around the word well I say I don’t have to and I can find true saints that don’t wish to be carried out puja onto nor sit on thrones and name them in the hundreds if you like. Maybe you should go visit them and see for yourselves.

 

By the way the Sadhus in Vartal who carried out the bad karmkaands, well this wasn’t the wish of the original Samprady. Bad apples exist everywhere and always will. Even at the time of Shriji Maharaj the Nand Santos such as Hariharanand Swami and Nirvikalpanand Swami fought many times. Just because of the few bad apples we cannot say that all apples are bad in the whole market that sells them my friend. Also the true Sadhus all get painted with one brush because of such incidents by a minority of the Sadhus. I mean this happens in evry sampraday. Even BAPS have heard many things occurring but I know that it wouldn’t be the same for all the Sadhus there. Please don’t be hurt by any of my statements. By the way my guru has also communicated with Bhagwan many times. He knows the whole Vachnamrut by heart too. Many such saints exist. But you seem to think different.

 

The Acharyas of the Sampraday are more than mere administrative heads. They are the spiritual leaders and the Guru through whom the path to atyantik kalyan (ultimate redemption) is opened.

Sahajanand Swami adopted Ayodhyaprasadji from His elder brother Rampratapji and adopted Raghuvirji from His younger brother Ichcharamji. He accepted the two as His own sons and handed the Northern- NarNarayan Dev Desh (diocese) to Ayodhyaprasadji and the Southern- LakshmiNarayan Dev Desh to Raghuvirji in Vadtal on VS 1882 (1826 AD) Kartik Sud 11 - Prabodhini Ekadashi (ironically on the very same day He was given the Acharya-pad by Ramanand Swami).

The NarNarayan Desh is based in Amdavad (Ahmedabad) and LakshmiNarayan Desh in Vadtal. Though known as NarNarayan Dev and Lakshminarayan Dev Gadi, both are the Swaminarayan Gadis as they are the only authentic gadis established by Lord Swaminarayan Himself.

The Acharyas are householders and their respective wives (Gadiwala) stand as the females’ Guru. The Gadi is passed on to the most capable of the Sons from their family.

The Acharya’s role is to

• initiate followers into the Sampraday with a Samanya Diksha by giving the special guru-mantra

• initiate sadhus (monks, ascetics) by giving them the Maha-Bhagwadi Diksha

• perform murti-pratishtha, install deities in the temples

• authenticate scriptures of the Sampraday

• act as the Guru and leader of the entire Sampraday.

These responsibilities have been prescribed in the Shikshapatri, Satsangijeevan and Desh Vibhag no Lekh, and according to these shastras no other individual other than the Dharmavanshi Acharyas are permitted to carry out the above duties. Therefore, the sole authority of the above lies with the two Acharyas.

“My Bhramin, Kshatriya and Vaishya followers who have received Shri Krshna Diksha (initiation) from the Dharmavanshi (descendants of Dharmadev) Acharyas, shall wear a double tulsi kanthi (rosary) around their neck and shall wear a U-shaped tilak on their forehead, chest, and both harms.” (Shikshapatri Shlok 41)

Therefore, a Swaminarayan follower is only a genuine Swaminarayan follower once he has received diksha from the respective Acharya. A Swaminarayan sadhu is only a genuine Swaminarayan sadhu once he has been given diksha by the Acharyas.

In the Shikshapatri (62), Swaminarayan Bhagwan clearly states

“And the form of Shri Krshna that has been given by your Acharya for the purpose of your worship and the forms that the Acharya has installed (i.e. in the mandirs) are the only forms of God worthy of worship. The rest are worthy of respect but not worthy of worship”

Therefore, the only murtis (deities) worthy of worship are those installed by the Acharyas.

In the Shikshapatri, Swaminarayan Bhagwan has placed a lot of importance on the Acharyas.

Shlok 71:

“All my followers shall never enter into debate with their Acharyas and shall serve the Acharyas with food, clothing, money etc according to their capacity.”

Shlok 72:

“Upon hearing of their coming, my followers should immediately go to greet and welcome the arrival of their Acharyas, and when the Acharya returns from the town my followers shall see them off to the outskirts of the town.”

In the scripture Purushottam Prakash, the writer Nishkulanand Swami describes the instance when Swaminarayan Bhagwan established the Dharmavanshi Acharyas.

Sahajanand Swami felt that now that He had established the grand temples and splendid Sampraday, He wanted to keep His sadhus free from the affairs dealing with wealth, power etc. He therefore decided that He would create leaders for each and every sadhu and householder, who will subsequently be responsible for the Sampraday.

This was in accordance with one of His three resolves; i.e. to establish the leaders of the Sampraday from His own family - Dharmakul.

Before declaring His intention to select His own family, Lord Shree Swaminarayan first gathered the senior sadhus/saints and followers and revealed His intention to install successors to the leadership.

The gathering that included seniors such as S.G. Muktanand Swami, S.G. Gopalanand Swami, S.G. Brahmanand Swami etc. as well as householders such as Dada- Uttam Khachar, unanimously recommended to Lord Shree Swaminarayan that He retain the leadership in His own Dharmakul and select Ayodhyaprasadji or Raghuvirji.

Lord Shree Swaminarayan was very pleased with this suggestion, for this was His own thinking as well. Since there was no room for discussion or further consideration, it was concluded that Lord Shree Swaminaryan's successors will be from His own Dharmakul and will be householders.

Sahajanand Swami then adopted Ayodhyaprasadji and Raghuvirprasadji as His own sons and made them the Acharyas – the Gurus of the Swaminarayan Sampraday.

He then declared, “Those who serve these Acharyas with food, jewellery, vehicles, animals, flowers etc shall be worthy of Akshardham…………. I shall emancipate those who serve and respect these Acharyas. Through these Acharyas I shall give kalyaan (give Akshardham) to all souls………." (Purushottam Prakash Chapter 37, Verse 6-20)

“…After a lot of thought and consideration I have decided to give the Gadi to them…” (Chapter 39 Verse 8)

“Therefore all of you shall obey the Dharamkul and serve them. They are not ordinary beings; they are great Devtas (Gods). As well as being my Sons they are Brahmin and my Bhaktas and by serving them you shall earn immense happiness. All your wishes will be fulfilled, this is my command that is to remain permanently.”

“So both householders and sadhus obey their (Acharyas’) commands, and not the fancies of the mind. Do not take any actions without their consent…..do not enter into debates with them even if you are greater in knowledge or wisdom…you shall regard the Acharyas as faultless – you shall obey their commands. If you keep them pleased then I will be pleased with you because they are in place of Myself….. I am forever residing in them. I am in them, and they are in Me. I am never far from them and I give darshan (divine sightings) residing in them……….”

“I am forever residing in the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. After seeing such followers I have decided to remain here (in the satsang), therefore those who worship the Acharyas have worshipped Me.”

(Purushottam Prakash Chapter 40)

The establishment of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas was therefore immensely important for both administrative and spiritual purposes.

The constitution of the Sampraday is laid out in Desh Vibhag no Lekh, which describes in detail the functions of the Acharyas.

“….it is my command to all sadhus, bhramcharis and all satsangi's, that for the purpose of your kalyaan (emancipation) you must obey and follow the two Acharyas of Dharmavansh, and obey their commands by thought, action and speech. If this is compromised and whoever turns elsewhere (rejecting the Acharyas) will find that they will never find sukh (happiness) in this world or the worlds beyond and will experience immense distress…” (Desh Vibhag no Lekh)

Furthermore, in one of the most authoritative scriptures the Vachamanamrut, Swaminarayan Bhagwan clearly states one of the prerequisites for attaining Akshardham

“…The devotee who is aashrit of Dharmakul (i.e. he who has received initiation from Dharmavanshi Acharya and remains loyal to the Acharya) gets a divine Brahm-state body by God’s wish…” (Vachanamrut, Gadhada Pratham Chapter 1)

So it is imperative to be a humble loyal follower of the Dharmavanshi Acharya once receiving the diksha (guru mantra) in order to be qualified to achieve a Brahm form.

Even Gunatitanand Swami, one of the main sadhus of Swaminarayan Bhagwan states “He who insults the temples, Acharyas, sadhus and satsangi’s will find his roots being destroyed and will inevitably fall from the satsang.” (Swami ni Vato Prakran 5, Vat 104)

Sahajanand Swami has decided to remain on this earth in His Acharyas. They are a version of Him. Being Purushottam Narayan Bhagwan, Sahajanand Swami kept an eternal method of attaining Akshardham by first requiring followers to obtain gurumantra or diksha and obey and respect the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. This is a system, which He has established for each and every follower. It was not a system that was to be changed or altered in the future in any way.

In S.G. Nityanand Swami's Shree Hari-Digvijay (endorsed by Lord Shree Swaminarayan) a debate between many great Vedic pundit- scholars and Lord Shree Swaminarayan is well documented.

The pundits challenge Lord Shree Swaminarayan's establishment of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. It was argued that a householder being a leader of renunciates (sadhus etc.) was anti-Vedic and had no firm basis in the scriptures of the Sanatan Dharma.

Lord Shree Swaminarayan explained in detail how it is in fact preferable to have householders leading a fellowship that consists of male and female renunciates and grihastha - householders.

He provided scriptural evidence for this and stated examples such Vyasji, the founder of the 4 Vedas and 18 Purans and considered the 'Universal Guru' in whose memory we have 'Guru-Poornima'.

Rishi Vyas was in fact a householder. Similarly, Rishis Vasishta and Yagyavalkya were also householders as was Brahmarshi Vishwamitra. A more distinct example is of Shukadevji, who recited the Srimad Bhagwat to King Parikshit, was a shishya (disciple) of King Janaka.

Therefore, the gathering of pandits and scholars agreed that the setup of Dharmavanshi Acharyas was more than coherent with the Vedic Dharmas and was worthy of honour and admiration.

Today there exist many sects that claim they are following the philosophies of Shree Swaminarayan Bhagwan, where in fact nothing could be further from the truth. As Swaminarayan Bhagwan has emphasised, there is no Akshardham for those who do not honour, obey, respect and serve the Dharmavanshi Acharyas, no matter how great a devotee they are.

It has now become necessary to question ‘Swaminarayan Temples’ whether they are in fact Swaminarayan Temples since the deities appear not to have been installed by the Dharmavanshi Acharyas, which is an outright breach of Swaminarayan Bhagwan’s likings (refer Shikshapatri Shlok 10 and then Shlok 62).

It has also become necessary to question the authenticity of ‘Swaminarayan’ sadhus. According to the scriptures mentioned, a Swaminarayan Sadhu is he who has received the initiation (maha-bhagwati diksha) from Dharmavanshi Acharya- no one else.

Once this has been appreciated, one can realise the true grandeur of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. They are another form of Swaminarayan Bhagwan and though they appear as humans, they are at a status even higher than Akshar-Muktas. Therefore all Swaminarayan Satsangis should obtain initiation from one of the two Dharmavanshi Acharyas and remain under their instructions and always honour and respect them as they would Swaminarayan Bhagwan Himself.

 

 

 

I would like to clear first that I was follower of BAPS since child hood, and now (at the age of 25th year) I have joined Original Sampraday by asking some questions to 1st line saints of BAPS. Please make a note that these all questions were unanswered by leading saints of BAPS. I have tried to ask these questiones to leading followers of BAPS, but as and when I asked questions they got provoked and could not answer.

 

I want to ask these all question to all BAPS followers, 1. Do you do whatever Pramukh swami maharaj say?

 

2. If yes, Pramukh swami maharaj has told in "Pramukhswami ni amrut vani" that, every satsangi should read books published by the seal of Acharya maharaj.

 

3. So did you try to read these books?

 

4. Did you read Shikshapatri? (Full version, not only Sukti ratna). which is stating that Murties which are established by Acharya should only be worshipped, other murties should not be worshipped but may be paid respect.

 

5. So please decide which murty are you worshipping? Established by Lord Swaminarayan Himself or by Gurus of BAPS.

 

6. In shikshapatri shlok Shree Hari has written that "Dharmado" should be given to the temples which I have built ("AAne me je sthapela Lakshminarayan aadik dev mandir..."). So please ask your self that are you giving dharmada to these Hari sthapit temples?

 

7. In shikshapatri , shree Hari has written that All sadhues MUST take Diksha from Acharya. So the other sadhus including your all Gurues (except Shashtriji Maharaj who was made "VIMUKH" from Vadtal temple) are not at all swaminarayan saits.

 

8. I think all satsangies Must read Desh Vibhag lekh, which is written by Shree Hari in the presence of all leading satsangies, and sadhus at that time. In this bhagwan has told that "Je koi mara sthapela dharma thi aalag aashram sthapshe te Guru Drohi chhe, vachan drohi chhe, ane te Jarur aa lok ne vishe ane parlok ne vishe mota kashta ne pamshe".

 

5. Did you read Bhaktachintamani? In which many a time Lord has said that all must follow Acharya's Agya.

 

6. Do you know that when any new sait is taking diksha in BAPS, then he is driven to Nar Narayan dev temple first.

 

7. Do you know that when ever Pramukh swami maharaj is coming to Gadhada, he visits Gopinathji Maharaj Temple to worship without fail. So please, if you want to go Akhardham then you all should read Shikshapatri, Vachanamrit (read whole, not some paragraphs which is instructed by BAPS temple), Bhaktachintamani, Satsangi Jivan (some days before in Dadar BAPS satsang sabha, mahant swami of dadar has also told to read satsangi Jivan) and Understand that without any bias. You will realise that through original sampraday only, one can get Akhardham.

 

8. At last but not list , the last shlok of shikshapatri -"Je aa shikhapatri pramane vartshe tene Dharma, Arth, Kam, ane Moksha (Akhardham) malshe, and je nahi varte te to AMARA DHARMA THI BAHER CHHE tem janvu."

 

Now its upto you whether you want to follow word of Lord Swaminarayan, or words of Gurus (who are miss leading to all)

 

 

Jay Swaminarayan