A New Question

[Guest guest]

I haven't posted in a while, so let me first

offer thanks to those who sent Namastes my way

following my rather panicky message about recovery from

knee surgery. The knee is recovering nicely, although

I suspect that I have joined for good the rather

large subgroup of this club who are very careful

lotu-sitters.<br><br>My question is primarily directed toward folks for

whom yoga is not the whole of their spirtual life, and

especially for those who identify primarly with some

particular non-Hinduist religion: what do you make of the

relationship between Ashtanga practice and your own religious

tradition, especially the more meditative/contemplative

elements within that tradition?<br><br>For example, I'm a

Roman Catholic who has always been drawn toward what we

call "contemplative prayer." I got into Ashtanga

primarily because I thought it might support that sort of

prayer life, although might be useful in that regard my

practice for the most part has lead me along other

unexpected, and less exalted, paths, e.g., being more

cheerful, or a bit better at listening -- which I don't

deny is really important stuff that by itself would

keep me practicing for life. In fact I do less

meditation now than when I first took up Asthanga (partly

because of the time involved.)<br><br>But I still keep

wondering about this contemplative dimension. Outside of

yoga there doesn't seem to be nearly as much in the

way of physical prerequisites or technical steps to

contemplative prayer. For example, for Christians "suitability"

for contemplation is said to be a matter of vocation

rather one's karmic makeup, and "progress" in

contemplation is held to depend almost entirely on grace and

not on the mastery of any particular practices. The

upshot is that if a Catholic gets the yen for

contemplation then he or she is just invited to jump right into

something that looks a lot like dharana. No postures, no

careful attention to breath, etc. No waiting.<br><br>Even

in Eastern traditons (say, Zen) where attention is

paid to posture and the like, the bar isn't set very

high. It's not like you have to be able to get your leg

behind your head before you have a shot at

satori.<br><br>Are these various religious traditions aiming for

roughly the same thing as yogis do when they speak of

"meditation"? If so, should we accept that there are lots of

prerequisites to genuine contemplation, and accordingly just do

our practice and "let everything come" as P. Jois

suggests? If on the other hand what is being aimed for

varies substantially with one's religion, is the

spiritual significance of yoga somewhat lessened for

non-Hindu folks?<br><br>I would be interested in hearing

meditators from various religious traditions comment on

whether and how Ashtanga has impacted their prayer

lives.<br><br>Peace and Good,<br>Homer

[Guest guest]

Hi Homer,<br><br>Your message brought up some

interesting points that I think many of us have considered at

one point or another. Beware, however, of going into

too much analysis of this topic. If you spend all

your time thinking, and never get around to doing, you

will see that life quickly passes by and opportunity

is lost.<br><br>Try not to worry about the best way

to undertake your contemplation/ meditation; if you

can trust yourself you will find the way that will

enable you to find the greatest rewards.<br><br>All the

best.

[Guest guest]

Hey Homer--Good questions. I don't have anything

to add because I dont really particpate in any

religious tradition. Even so I'm curious about what happens

when Ashtanga meets other traditions. I hope your

questions stay alive here.

[Guest guest]

I dunno, vitamin_t12, looks like joint problems

are drowning out everything else right

now.<br><br>Speaking of joints: do yogis have more trouble with the

left knee than with the right? Without previewing all

previous knee posts, I get the feeling that the left was

mentioned much more often. Could this have anything to do

with the tradition of sitting with left foot on top in

lotus? Or are most of us "right-legged" in our everyday

activities? [For example, I kick a ball with the right

foot.]<br><br>Homer

[Guest guest]

sorry to perpetuate the situation homer,<br> <br>for my own purposes I am left

legged, and my most comfortable lotus is wth right foot on top.....

[Guest guest]

Funny you should ask...i kind of wondered the

same thing. (I thought it sounded too crazy to

actually bring up...)<br><br>My left knee is much more

'tight' than my right and i seem to baby it a bit

more...holding on to fear, i guess. <br><br>i am left-handed,

thought it might have something to do with that...

[Guest guest]

Hi Homer and Vitamin,<br><br>I'd like to add a

bit to this question about religiosity and yoga

practice - mainly because I too think it's an interesting

question. <br><br>I can tell you from my own experience in

not ever having been steeped in any religious

tradition, except that I'm growing up in a

Christian-oriented country, that my meditation within yoga practice

has extended outward into what may be considered

"prayer" in my daily life. All part of the yoking, really.

<br><br>I can also give you a second-hand anecdote. My

boyfriend's own Roman Catholic upbringing has been

strengthened by his studies and practices in Eastern

traditions. He is a regular astangi (2nd series) and studied

with Pattabhis Jois two years ago, but grew up in a

very "fervent" Roman Cathoic household. When he moved

away from home he became interested in Eastern

religions mainly b/c he was very turned off by the messages

and dogma of the Catholic Church. In fact, he wanted

to convert to Buddhism and was in a monastery for a

while. One of the monks basically told him that in order

for him to be a good Buddhist, he first needed to

become a good Catholic. Essentially, he should find the

sprirituality and meaning in his birth-religion in order to

find and explore spirituality and meaning in another

religion. It's nice that Buddhism is such an open religion

that allows such practice. He now "calls" himself a

Catholic Buddhist. After that experience, he realized that

in order to "deal" with the aspects of Catholicism

he was not in agreement with, he should work from

the inside, rather than rejecting the Church

completely. He finds a great amount of spiritual harmony

within Catholism and is presently a regular church-goer

(as well as a regular astanga practicioner and a

regular vippasana meditator). <br><br>I gained a great

deal with yoga in understanding other forms of

spirtual-ness: basically understanding that we sometimes tend to

reject what we grew up with because the grass may seem

greener on the other side (or more meaningful) in the

hopes of gaining some meaning within our lives - rather

than turning to what we grew up with in order to find

the meaning within that. I'm just thinking of all the

people I know who are more than willing to pick up the

baghava gita (spelling-sorry), but would dismiss anything

related to the bible. I think it is linked to fact that

we live in a Christian dominated society that tends

to mangle many of the more esoteric and spiritual

messages of that piece of religious doctrine. So, we're

not so inclined to turn to it for help or meaning.

<br><br>So, Homer, I'm glad to hear that you're own

meditative practices, in whatever religion you happen to be,

are becoming stronger by doing yoga. It has for me as

well.